deaphen
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First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:12 pm

hi

can anyone tell me the history behind non stop flights over the pacific. Non stop i mean as in from hkg to sfo or seoul to sfo and la etc. Which airline flew this the first and with what aircraft? These should be direct with no tech stops in the middle.

Also what was the general feeling among aviationists about this feat?

regards
nitin
I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
 
juventus
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:21 pm

Hmmm. Now you got me wondering as well. If I could guess, I would say PaNam from San Francisco to Tokyo.
 
trvyyz
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting Deaphen (Thread starter):
These should be direct with no tech stops in the middle.

Again, makes me wonder about any technical stops between Japan and ANC over the pacific? I have no idea, pls list.
 
jfk777
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:32 pm

Pan Am flew the first nonstops SFO to HKG with 747SP in the late 1970's. They were the only one until the 744 came. NOW Cathay, Singapore and UA fly the route nonstop. SIA did fly nonstop HKG to SFO nonstop with a 743 in the 1980's before the 744's, the 743 had to fuel up in Honolulu for the trip back to HKG.
 
Tod
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:09 pm

Didn't NW fly SEA-HND nonstop with a 707-320 before the 747 was born?

Tod
 
Clipper002
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:23 pm

I believe the first TransPacific nonstop flight was Pan Am flight 801 on April 25, 1976 JFK/NRT. This was a total of 6754 statute miles long.

Rgds,
Ed
Ed
 
bobnwa
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting Clipper002 (Reply 5):
believe the first TransPacific nonstop flight was Pan Am flight 801 on April 25, 1976 JFK/NRT. This was a total of 6754 statute miles long.

You mean there were no non-stop flights from the west coast to Japan prior to that flight. Also, there was no NRT airport in 1976.
 
Tod
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:35 pm

From http://www.scripophily.net/nooraianpa19.html

"The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser, 1949 promotionOn 1 August 1949, Northwest took delivery of its first double-deck Boeing 377 Stratocruisers, which allowed the airline to establish higher service standards and reduce flight time. They were used to fly the Tokyo route nonstop from Seattle..."

Tod
 
Zudnic
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:37 pm

Do you mean scheduled passenger flight? If not, according to infoplease.com, the first flight from Japan to Washington was in October, 1931.

According to University of Miami's website, the first transpacific airmail flight was Alameda to Manila aboard a M-130 in November, 1935.
 
bobnwa
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 8):
Do you mean scheduled passenger flight? If not, according to infoplease.com, the first flight from Japan to Washington was in October, 1931.

According to University of Miami's website, the first transpacific airmail flight was Alameda to Manila aboard a M-130 in November, 1935.

Although I was not around then, I feel fairly sure they were not non-stop flights.
 
deaphen
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 8):
Do you mean scheduled passenger flight?

Thanks... yea i do mean scheduled passenger flights. Now a days its become so common to cross the pacific. But i am sure back in the day it must have seemed like an impossible feat. Similarly flying over the north pole now is just passe!

regards
nitin
I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
 
roseflyer
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting Tod (Reply 7):
The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser, 1949 promotionOn 1 August 1949, Northwest took delivery of its first double-deck Boeing 377 Stratocruisers, which allowed the airline to establish higher service standards and reduce flight time. They were used to fly the Tokyo route nonstop from Seattle..."

That was the first nonstop transatlantic from Seattle, and I'd guess that it is probably the first nonstop transpacific flight since Seattle is the closest city to Asia in the lower 48. Japan is closer to Seattle than most of Europe. The first Stratocruiser flight from SEA on NW also correlated with the opening of the new terminal.

Quoting Zudnic (Reply 8):
Do you mean scheduled passenger flight? If not, according to infoplease.com, the first flight from Japan to Washington was in October, 1931

I doubt that this would be a nonstop flight. No planes in 1931 had enough range. I don't even think Pan Am's clippers could ever fly that far nonstop.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
David L
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
No planes in 1931 had enough range. I don't even think Pan Am's clippers could ever fly that far nonstop.

I thought they stopped off in Guam, or somewhere similar.
 
Zudnic
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 10):

Although I was not around then, I feel fairly sure they were not non-stop flights.



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):

I doubt that this would be a nonstop flight. No planes in 1931 had enough range. I don't even think Pan Am's clippers could ever fly that far nonstop.

The InfoPlease.com article reads: (fair use exerpt)
"Hugh Herndon and Clyde Pangborn took off from Sabishiro Beach, Japan, dropped their landing gear, and flew 4,860 mi to near Wenatchee, Wash., in 41 hr. 13 min. (Oct. 4–5)."
According to the following highly relevant and detailed article, it appears that this was indeed the first nonstop transpacific crossing. It was not, however, a commercial flight.
http://www.historynet.com/exploration/adventurers/3030551.html

The 1935 crossing was the first COMMERCIAL one, and it appears the skepticism from Deaphen and RoseFlyer was correct regarding this one. I found an additional source that reads, "The aircraft completed the trip in six days, with a flying time of 59 hours, 48 minutes. Overnight stops included Honolulu, Midway, Wake Island, and Guam."
Source: http://www.flyingclippers.com/M130.html
 
cityairline
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:55 am

I know that PR was the first ASIAN airline to cross the pacific, MNL-SFO in 1946...

//Alex  wave 
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Tod
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 11):
That was the first nonstop transatlantic from Seattle, and I'd guess that it is probably the first nonstop transpacific flight since Seattle is the closest city to Asia in the lower 48. Japan is closer to Seattle than most of Europe. The first Stratocruiser flight from SEA on NW also correlated with the opening of the new terminal.

I just checked with my Grandma and it was quite a big deal in the day.
As she recalls (she 94, so . . .) my Grandfather, head of NW pacific station operations was either on the first flight or the return flight.

Even after that, NW still ran flights with other aircraft SEA - HND via Shemya Island. As she recalls, it was a stopover with a fancy dinner served while the plane was serviced.

Tod
 
timz
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:06 am

Dunno where that website got the idea that NW flew nonstop SEA-TYO with B377s-- I'm guessing they never attempted any such thing, even eastward. They might have done an occasional eastward nonstop with the 1049G, and maybe they even scheduled it nonstop with the DC-7C-- I'll check.

TYO-SEA nonstop with the DC-8-30 ... maybe.

In any case, Pan Am certainly scheduled TYO-SFO nonstop soon after getting their first 707-320Bs.
 
timz
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:04 am

The 8/53 OAG shows no stops TYO-SEA for the NW B377, twice a week, but the schedule time was 18 hr 25 minutes so I assume there actually was a stop in there.

Pan Am's public timetables showed no stop TYO-SFO even before they got their -320Bs-- the 3/61 OAG shows 9 hr 30 min, so maybe that really was nonstop?
 
Avatordon
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:18 am

Did NW or PA beat CP from YVR? Not sure, but was curious when CP started nonstop YVR-HND flights.

http://www.vancouverhistory.ca/chronology1953.htm

December 4, 1953

"December 4 A heavily-loaded Canadian Pacific Airlines airliner touched down at Vancouver International Airport at 12:42 a.m. to become the first plane in the world to fly non-stop from Tokyo to Vancouver. The big DC-6B also set a possible second world aviation record in completing what CPA officials believe is the longest commercial airlines passenger flight in history. The 4,800-mile (7,723-km) flight, with Capt. James Black of West Vancouver at the controls, was completed in 13 hours and 51 minutes flying time. Today, that same flight takes eight hours and 25 minutes."
 
timz
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:35 am

True enough, CP was known to fly Tokyo or Misawa nonstop to Vancouver, but doubtful that they ever actually scheduled it nonstop. (The OAG shows no stop in either direction, and I assume westward nonstop is out of the question.)

Edit: but maybe they did schedule a Britannia nonstop. We can't trust their OAG listings, so who knows.

[Edited 2006-09-02 01:37:24]
 
NorthstarBoy
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:44 pm

for some reason i had the idea that JAL ran DC-10-40s between TYO and JFK, via the polar route, i'm led to believe that it's ability to fly this route nonstop was one of the reasons JAL ordered the DC-10-40
Yes, I'd like to see airbus go under so Boeing can have their customers!
 
baw716
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:38 pm

NW operated 707-320Bs from SEA-HND in the late 1960s-early 70s before the 747 was introduced (NW 7 westbound)...I don't know if any prop aircraft had the range to make Japan-Seattle (or any other west coast city) with any kind of payload.

The history books pretty well agree that the first nonstop transpac flight was from Japan to Wenatchee, WA in 1931; but the first commercial flight? This info, so far, has been much more difficult to find.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
DJ748
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:54 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
NOW Cathay, Singapore and UA fly the route nonstop

Don't forget that QF also fly non-stop across the pacific from BNE-LAX, SYD-LAX/SFO and MEL-LAX. Am unsure when they started these non-stop though.
 
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fxramper
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:58 pm

This doesn't really apply, but my grandfather, retired figher pilot from WW2, told me that in 1944 the Air Force had a program running that allowed fighter pilots to fly an a/c back to the States puddling jumping across the Pac. He wanted to stay in one piece after he was shot down and go home to marry my grandmother and didn't pursue this oppurtunity.

The routing took them through SYD AKL MNL GUM HNL LAX etc.
 
airlanka
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:35 pm

Loved flying UA business (first class withing US) class from MEL/SYD/SFO/SJC/AUS (on AA)/DEN/LAX/SYD/MEL two weeks ago..

Some of the Old ladies (flght attendents) gave motherly comforts and looked after me well. I wonder when UA is going to get some young FAs in their pacific routes...Never seen one yet..

Airlanka
A taste of Paradise
 
nzrich
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:02 pm

Quoting AirLanka (Reply 24):
Loved flying UA business (first class withing US) class from MEL/SYD/SFO/SJC/AUS (on AA)/DEN/LAX/SYD/MEL two weeks ago..

Some of the Old ladies (flght attendents) gave motherly comforts and looked after me well. I wonder when UA is going to get some young FAs in their pacific routes...Never seen one yet..

Airlanka

You wont unless one of the crew goes sick.. For UA crew the Australian and when they Operated them the New Zealand routes were some of the most sort after routes to fly so the crew were always senior crews ..
"Pride of the pacific"
 
NWDC10
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:20 pm

Here is some info you will be interested in:

Airport History
Spirit of Wenatchee Pangborn Memorial Airport has been in operation since 1941. It is named for Clyde Pangborn, who along with co-pilot Hugh Herndon, completed the first nonstop flight across the Pacific Ocean in 1931. Their epic journey began in Misawa Japan, and ended 41 hours later in East Wenatchee, Washington. Northwest Airlines began the first commercial air service to and from Pangborn Airport in 1945.

Click on link, then "Airport Information" then "History".

http://pangbornairport.com/index.aspx

This is my Home Town Airport-Wenatchee, Wa (KEAT)
 
NWDC10
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:57 pm

 
NZ8800
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:58 pm

When did the first nonstop Pacific Crossings from Auckland and Sydney to Los Angeles start? There's now AKL-SFO and SYD-SFO non-stop as well. Then there's Honolulu of course, albeit somewhat closer!

SYD-LAX 7488mi
SYD-SFO 7417mi
SYD-HNL 5066mi

AKL-LAX 6504mi
AKL-SFO 6516mi
AKL-HNL 4389mi
MDZWTA ~ Mobile Disaster Zone When Travelling Abroad
 
NWDC10
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:47 pm

So i think i found your answere in "The First Non-Stop Flight Over The Pacific" in reply #26. Robert NWDC10
 
Skyguy
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 25):
You wont unless one of the crew goes sick.. For UA crew the Australian and when they Operated them the New Zealand routes were some of the most sort after routes to fly so the crew were always senior crews ..

Ditto for AA. They use their "senior" crews for their NRT, South American and European routes as they get at least a 24 hour layover and then only have to fly about 4 or 5 times a month, thats it. This way they average flying about once a week.
"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
 
NWDC10
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:14 am

 
timz
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RE: First Non Stop Flight Over The Pacific

Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 28):
When did the first nonstop Pacific Crossings from Auckland and Sydney to Los Angeles start?

I think Pan Am flew nonstop from SYD in the late 1970s, with the 747SP.