gilesdavies
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Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:29 pm

With market being so competitive between the UK and Australia, I was wondering what were the largest carriers between the two countries and how the market share is split...

I think I would be making a safe assumption that British Airways and Qantas are both the largest carriers on this route. But with so many other national carriers offering connections I was wondering how these airlines faired.

Just doing a simple search on Expedia the number of connections and airlines trying to get a share of this lucrative market is huge, some examples...

United - LHR-LAX-SYD and LHR-SFO-SYD
Korean Air - LHR -ICN-SYD
Emirates - LHR/LGW-DXB-SYD
Singapore Airlines - LHR-SIN-SYD
Royal Brunai - LHR-DXB-BWN-SYD
Cathay Pacific - LHR-HKG-SYD
Air New Zealand - LHR-LAX-AUK-SYD and LHR-HKG-AUK-SYD
Air Canada - LHR-YVR-HNL-SYD (That one was a surprise!)
Malaysia Airlines - LHR-KUL-SYD
Thai Air International - LHR-BKK-SYD
Gulf Air - LHR-BAH-SIN-SYD (Another surprise!)
Austrian Airlines - LHR-VIE-KUL-SYD (Very competive price and again a surprise!)
EVA Air - LHR-TPE-BNE
Japan Airlines (JAL) - LHR-NRT-SYD

Combinations are endless!
 
B742
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:34 pm

Personaly I would say that EK, SQ and QF are the largest carriers on this route, don't forget that SQ also serve from MAN and EK from BHX, GLA and MAN  Smile

Don't forget that OS is soon to end its Australia flights via SIN and KUL  Sad

Rob!  wave 
 
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Stitch
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:38 pm

EK is probably going to be the biggest once they take all their A380s, though QF should give them a run for their money with their fleet.  Smile
 
koruman
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:17 pm

British Airways actually isn't even in the top five.

When last I looked the order was:
1. Qantas
2. Singapore Airlines
3. Emirates, then a huge drop to....
4. Cathay Pacific
5. Malaysian
6. JAL
7. British Airways
8. Thai
9. Air New Zealand
10. Royal Brunei

Incidentally, Australia to USA figures were more surprising....

1. Qantas
2. United
3. Air New Zealand
4. Air Canada
5. Hawaiian Air
6. Continental Micronesia (bet everyone had forgotten that one!)
7. Air Pacific
8. Air Tahiti Nui
9. Korean Air
10. Singapore Airlines

In terms of US gateways six months ago it was something like:
LAX 75%, Honolulu 15%, San Francisco 5%.

These figures represent something from about a year and a half ago, and I haven't got a photographic memory so accuracy may be poor.
 
VHVXB
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:26 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Personaly I would say that EK, SQ and QF are the largest carriers on this route, don't forget that SQ also serve from MAN and EK from BHX, GLA and MAN

I agree EK and SQ provide multiple daily flights to Australian cities and many onward connections to the UK
 
jfk777
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:03 am

I'm surprised by the low ranking of BA from the UK to Australia, last I checked they had only 2 744 daily.
 
vv701
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 3):
British Airways actually isn't even in the top five

You are only looking at BA metal in making your conclusion. You should also take into account that the JSA (Joint Service Agreement) between QF and BA that dates back to pre World War II days means that QF and BA share revenues, costs and profits on the Kangaroo route irrespective of the passengers either carries. This is why BA were able to abandon MEL recently turning the aircraft round at SIN. This improves efficiency by avoiding having an aircraft sitting unproductive on the ground for over 12 hours waiting for the window of opportunity to beat the LHR night curfew on the return flight.

In summary if QF are the biggest, BA is the biggest equal. If QF are third largest, BA is third largest. Each equals half of their combined total on the route in terms of both revenue and profit.
 
David_itl
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:11 am

The MAN-Australia market has been suggested at some 150,000-180,000 passengers a year by a CAA survey, of which just 34,000 were routing via LHR. It remains to be seen what the effects of SQ going to 5 weekly from January (hopefully this is only temporary thing pending 773 deliveries) and EK going to 773s on their evening service and the lack of MH offering through services will have on the market.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Austrian Airlines - LHR-VIE-KUL-SYD (Very competive price and again a surprise!)

Is Austrian the only European airline in Star Alliance on this route?

Is there room for other major airlines life LH, KL and AF to offer flights to Australia?

Sky Team and Star Alliance seem to lack any presence on the Europe to Australia routes...
 
vincewy
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:04 am

Have you looked at the frequency of SQ+EK going into Australia? While not direct flight, they're becoming de facto airlines of Australia. ie, SQ, 3 744 dailies into SYD, 2 773+ 1 744 dailies into MEL, almost 3 dailies into BNE and PER.
 
9MMAR
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 8):
Sky Team and Star Alliance seem to lack any presence on the Europe to Australia routes...

Only for Skyteam, that's why a lot of MH fans suggested the airline to join the alliance, which MH is currently pursuing seriously.

Star Alliance have a lot of flights to Australia. SQ alone is a major player in the routes, flying to all major Australian cities (PER, ADL, MEL, SYD and BNE).
 
9MMAR
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:24 am

The thread starter mentioned Australia and the UK. My understanding is that, it's not just a flight between London and Sydney.

Just to share some information, in a week, MH flies (based on September 2006 schedule):

18x KUL - LHR, all on 744
9x KUL - PER, 7x on 772 and 2x on 330
4x KUL - ADL, all on 772
6x KUL - BNE, all on 772
14x KUL - SYD, 7x on 744 and 7x on 772

So that's 18 flight a week to the UK and 33 flights a week to 5 Australian cities via KUL. With MH's recently signed codeshare agreement with DJ, more Australian routes are connected.
 
lovinitflyboy
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 8):



Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 8):
Sky Team and Star Alliance seem to lack any presence on the Europe to Australia routes...

AF and QF codeshare daily via SIN on the CDG/Australia route. KL pulled off the SYD route only a few years ago, but Skyteam still have KE.

Star Alliance have AC, NZ, NH, OZ, SQ, TG, SA)">UA and even SA flying between the Europe and Australia, more options than any other alliance, but no european carriers.

With BA and VS being the only European carriers flying their own metal down there it leaves BA as the sole european airline in an alliance flying the route (after OS stop services).
 
9MMAR
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 11):
The thread starter mentioned Australia and the UK. My understanding is that, it's not just a flight between London and Sydney.

Just to share some information, in a week, MH flies (based on September 2006 schedule):

18x KUL - LHR, all on 744
9x KUL - PER, 7x on 772 and 2x on 330
4x KUL - ADL, all on 772
6x KUL - BNE, all on 772
14x KUL - SYD, 7x on 744 and 7x on 772

So that's 18 flight a week to the UK and 33 flights a week to 5 Australian cities via KUL. With MH's recently signed codeshare agreement with DJ, more Australian routes are connected.

Oppss... I forgot.

14x KUL - MEL, 7x on 744 and 7x on 772.

So that's 18 flights a week to the UK and 47 flights a week to 5 Australian cities via KUL. With MH's recently signed codeshare agreement with DJ, more Australian routes are connected.
 
RobertS975
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 10):
Only for Skyteam, that's why a lot of MH fans suggested the airline to join the alliance, which MH is currently pursuing seriously.

9MMAR, the FlyerTalk BB has a thread that states that the SkyMiles partnering with DL and MH will be ending as of the end of 2006. What do you make of that? How is this related, if at all, with the MH atempt to join SkyTeam?
 
VHVXB
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Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 8):
Is Austrian the only European airline in Star Alliance on this route?

Yes once they are gone no European airline will serve Australia except for BA and VS

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 10):
Star Alliance have a lot of flights to Australia. SQ alone is a major player in the routes, flying to all major Australian cities (PER, ADL, MEL, SYD and BNE).

You can also count TG

Quoting Lovinitflyboy (Reply 12):
Star Alliance have AC, NZ, NH, OZ, SQ, TG, SA)">UA and even SA flying between the Europe and Australia, more options than any other alliance, but no european carriers.

NH does not fly to Australia
 
ScandinA340
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:01 pm

RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:53 am

There is also, to a degree, a fair amount of pax who transfer at Asian hubs to LH, SK and LX. Given that all pax have to stop somewhere before Europe anyway, and the promo fares offered by these airlines, Star Alliance has a good number of airlines indirectly serving the Aust-UK market. LH, SK and LX all know this, as they have marketing offices Down Under, despite not serving the route with their own metal...

ScandinA340
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Air New Zealand - LHR-LAX-AUK-SYD and LHR-HKG-AUK-SYD

Auckland is AKL not AUK which is Alakanuk, Alaska.  Wink
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:04 pm

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Air Canada - LHR-YVR-HNL-SYD

When its B777s arrives it will become LHR-YVR-LAX-SYD
Head Forum Moderator
moderators@airliners.net
 
VHVXB
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Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:07 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):
When its B777s arrives it will become LHR-YVR-LAX-SYD

Don't you mean LHR-YYZ-LAX-SYD?
 
9MMAR
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Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:18 pm

RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:41 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 14):
9MMAR, the FlyerTalk BB has a thread that states that the SkyMiles partnering with DL and MH will be ending as of the end of 2006. What do you make of that? How is this related, if at all, with the MH atempt to join SkyTeam?

Someone posted it in my thread about "MH services to Zurich, Rome and Los Angeles to Stay" as well. I am not someone from the industry, so I can't say anything about it. But there are a lot of threads mentioning about MH's plan to join Skyteam.
 
6thfreedom
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: Largest Carriers Between UK And Australia.

Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:00 pm

If you're talking biggest in terms of pax carried rather than actual seats flown (which is hard to do with intermediate carriers), here's a split and total figures for the 12 months to June 2006.

Airline/OD pax movements/Market share (sorry about formatting below!)

QF 758,414 32%
EK 367,443 16%
SQ 316,365 13%
BA 188,349 8%
MH 177,905 8%
CX 117,671 5%
NZ 60,825 3%
JL 60,194 3%
AO 47,548 2%
VS 43,664 2%
BI 36,284 2%
TG 35,619 2%
OS 17,458 1%
GF 16,144 1%
UA 14,325 1%

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