dank
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AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:13 am

It looks like AA is going back to the 777 on the RDU-LGW route starting at the end of October (and keeping the second DFW-LGW flight on a 763). I assume they really route the 777s RDU-LGW-DFW and DFW-LGW-RDU?

cheers.
 
ikramerica
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:53 am

Could this be the SJC-NRT 777 availability being reassigned?
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AirPacific747
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Could this be the SJC-NRT 777 availability being reassigned?

It does seem a bit excessive using a 777 on such a route to me.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 2):
It does seem a bit excessive using a 777 on such a route to me.

especially coming after the typical 'high season' on such a route!

Chris in NH
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:10 am

The reason is because AA was unable to find a way to upgrade DFW-LGW to 2x 777s without making RDU-LGW a 772. The original plan was taking the 777 from DFW-KIX and making the 2nd daily DFW-LGW flight a 772. However, this posed a problem, because it meant no way to get the 763 positioned for RDU-LGW. So AA then planned to have DFW-LGW operated with a 763 on Mondays only, which would then rotate exclusively between RDU and LGW for one week at a time. This prooved to be too complicated, especially with crew issues.
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dank
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Could this be the SJC-NRT 777 availability being reassigned?

I think that it is a reassignment of a 777 out of DFW. They drop the DFW-KIX flight on the 27th of October, which I believe is right when RDU-LGW switches back to a 777 (looking at the arrival/departure times in London, plus the longer stretch from Dallas, makes me assume that they share aircraft with the DFW flight, allowing them to rotate aircraft since RDU doesn't see any other 777s (or 767s when it is a 767, either, I believe).

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 3):
Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 2):It does seem a bit excessive using a 777 on such a route to me.
especially coming after the typical 'high season' on such a route!

Chris in NH

I actually think that summer really is the low season on this route as O+D (and AA feels that the 777 could be used on a more in demand tourist route). There is a lot of triangle area-London business travel on this route, and I would assume late summer is lighter in that regard.

I know that a bunch of the pharmaceuticals (GSK in paritcular) guarantee business class seats on this flight. What about first? I only ask since this is one advantage of the AA 772s over the 763s...

Personally, I would rather have the 777 on this route, but that doesn'tnecessarilly make it good business sense  Wink.

This route is convenient for me. A nonstop flight, short check in and security. The whole customs and rechecking your bags even though you are ending up in Raleigh is a bit of a drag. Hopefully, the redone terminal will fix this.

cheers.
 
dank
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
The reason is because AA was unable to find a way to upgrade DFW-LGW to 2x 777s without making RDU-LGW a 772. The original plan was taking the 777 from DFW-KIX and making the 2nd daily DFW-LGW flight a 772. However, this posed a problem, because it meant no way to get the 763 positioned for RDU-LGW. So AA then planned to have DFW-LGW operated with a 763 on Mondays only, which would then rotate exclusively between RDU and LGW for one week at a time. This prooved to be too complicated, especially with crew issues.

Thanks a bunch for your reply. Good to see that I was a bit on track with my guess. Works out better for me  Smile.

cheers.
 
Avion346
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 5):
know that a bunch of the pharmaceuticals (GSK in paritcular) guarantee business class seats on this flight. What about first? I only ask since this is one advantage of the AA 772s over the 763s...

You hit the nail on the head...GlaxoSmithKline and others are the main reason for this route in general, let alone the business/first demand. They are definitely a premium customer for AA in RDU.
 
coerj
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:09 am

How do the loads do on this flight? Beside the Business Class demand, how is first and coach doing. Is there alot of O/D? Any connecting flights, as RDU can be considered a small focus city for AA.
 
bond007
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:20 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 5):
I know that a bunch of the pharmaceuticals (GSK in paritcular) guarantee business class seats on this flight. What about first? I only ask since this is one advantage of the AA 772s over the 763s...



Quoting Avion346 (Reply 7):
You hit the nail on the head...GlaxoSmithKline and others are the main reason for this route in general, let alone the business/first demand. They are definitely a premium customer for AA in RDU.

Correct, that's the only reason. There's no market reason other than those large pharma companies that obviously have a deal with AA on this route.


Jimbo
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Sean-SAN-
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:26 am

Don't forget AA also uses this as an AAdvantage relief valve... it's an easy way to get alot of people who want to use AA miles to London... which keeps ORD and DFW flights more open for revenue pax.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:37 am

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 10):
Don't forget AA also uses this as an AAdvantage relief valve... it's an easy way to get alot of people who want to use AA miles to London... which keeps ORD and DFW flights more open for revenue pax.

Yes. During the winter, some days they get as many as 50-60 MIA-originating passengers on this flight.
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dank
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting COERJ (Reply 8):
How do the loads do on this flight? Beside the Business Class demand, how is first and coach doing. Is there alot of O/D? Any connecting flights, as RDU can be considered a small focus city for AA.

When I've been on it, the loads weren't great in Y. And the great advantage of 2-5-2 seating has given me 2 1/2 seats to myself for coach fare  Smile.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 10):
Don't forget AA also uses this as an AAdvantage relief valve... it's an easy way to get alot of people who want to use AA miles to London... which keeps ORD and DFW flights more open for revenue pax.

 checkmark  I've been on flights from RDU to ORD on AA with connecting pax from LGW. They only get feed on the RDU end, I imagine, as this flight is not code shared by BA (but for some reason, I think it may have been at one time or was this route operated by BA before?).

cheers.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting Dank (Reply 12):
I've been on flights from RDU to ORD on AA with connecting pax from LGW. They only get feed on the RDU end, I imagine, as this flight is not code shared by BA (but for some reason, I think it may have been at one time or was this route operated by BA before?).

BA and AA cannot codeshare on US-London flights.

On a side note, there is more connecting traffic at RDU on AA than most people think. One-third of American Eagle's RDU passengers are connecting. The majority between Miami and the Northeast, even though AA offers extensive Miami-Northeast non-stop service.
a.
 
dank
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:23 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
BA and AA cannot codeshare on US-London flights.

thanks.

cheers.
 
masseybrown
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:13 pm

Quoting COERJ (Reply 8):
How do the loads do on this flight?

This doesn't give a class breakdown, but the British CAA gives the following pax counts:

2006
Month / Pax / Change from 2005
January 7,166 down 8%
February 5,576 down 6%
March 9,423 down 8%
April 10,353 up 3%
May 10,986 up 7%
June 12,132 up 3%
July 11,509 up 4%

If you assume a 245 pax 777, the load factor varies from 40.6% in Feb to 82.5% in June.
 
Humberside
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:07 pm

Would AA ever consider doing a DFW-RDU-LGW (with DFW-RDU effectively to position an aircraft to RDU) or would that be more complicated than it sounds?
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commavia
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 16):
Would AA ever consider doing a DFW-RDU-LGW (with DFW-RDU effectively to position an aircraft to RDU) or would that be more complicated than it sounds?

Indeed, that schedule was used for several years in ~1998-2000 period, when RDU-LGW was being flown with 3-class 767-200s. The plane would fly LAX-DFW-RDU with a single flight number, and then it would fly RDU-LGW with a different flight number. It would then turn around the next day at LGW and do the reverse. However, once the route shifted to a 767-300 (then 3-class), and then ultimately the 777, they started routing the plane over LGW as part of the DFW-LGW schedule.
 
jfk777
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:28 pm

AA use to fly RDU-CDG, this route must print money from the pharma companies if not AA would have killed it years ago.
 
ncflyer
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:41 pm

An airline isn't in business to offer a flight as an AAdvantage relief valve. There is no constitutional requirement that AA or any airline offer free seats on any flight or to any destination (unfortunately). It may serve that purpose because RDU is too small to support such a large plane, but AA isn't flying such a large plane on the route unless there is a solid business reason.
 
bond007
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Ncflyer (Reply 19):
An airline isn't in business to offer a flight as an AAdvantage relief valve. There is no constitutional requirement that AA or any airline offer free seats on any flight or to any destination (unfortunately). It may serve that purpose because RDU is too small to support such a large plane, but AA isn't flying such a large plane on the route unless there is a solid business reason.

Yes, the fact that some pax are using the RDU flight for FF seats is not good news for AA ... the load factors for paying pax are obviously much lower than the MIA/DFW flights. Personally I'd like to see the real margins on this flight (but we never will of course), and understand how profitable (or not) this route really is. In my opinion the real figures might not be as bright as some might want to believe.


Jimbo
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gman3
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:46 am

I have always wanted to know where the FAs are based who do that trip. Does AA have a small base in RDU for that trip or is it assigned to other bases?
 
commavia
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 20):
Yes, the fact that some pax are using the RDU flight for FF seats is not good news for AA

On the contrary, Raleigh/Durham-Gatwick serves its purpose perfectly. First off, the flight is profitable -- regardless of passenger sales or frequent flyer redemption, because large pharma companies based in the Research Triangle and/or the Greater London area (namely, GSK, etc.) basically subsidize the flight as a corporate shuttle and guarantee a level of front-end traffic to keep the plane flying every day. Secondly, by flying this flight, and using it for frequent flyer redemption, American is able to take pressure of other flights, namely Miami-Heathrow, and thus free up seats on that daily 777 flight for higher-yielding revenue traffic.

Quoting Gman3 (Reply 21):
I have always wanted to know where the FAs are based who do that trip. Does AA have a small base in RDU for that trip or is it assigned to other bases?

Yes. AA has a small flight attendant base in Raleigh/Durham that handles only this single daily flight.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting Ncflyer (Reply 19):
An airline isn't in business to offer a flight as an AAdvantage relief valve.

Incorrect. Airlines often offer such flights as a relief valve and effective increases yield and profit on other routes. Offering a "loss leader" can sometimes increase profits on other routes to the same destination that the airline makes more money with the loss leader. A good example is AA's Dallas-Buenos Aires flight, whose primary purpose is to divert lower yielding traffic away from Miami and JFK. The flight makes a marginal profit, but it drives up JFK/MIA yields significantly.
a.
 
dank
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 22):
On the contrary, Raleigh/Durham-Gatwick serves its purpose perfectly. First off, the flight is profitable -- regardless of passenger sales or frequent flyer redemption, because large pharma companies based in the Research Triangle and/or the Greater London area (namely, GSK, etc.) basically subsidize the flight as a corporate shuttle and guarantee a level of front-end traffic to keep the plane flying every day. Secondly, by flying this flight, and using it for frequent flyer redemption, American is able to take pressure of other flights, namely Miami-Heathrow, and thus free up seats on that daily 777 flight for higher-yielding revenue traffic.

 checkmark  I would also assume that it encourages that GSK, etc. will continue to use AA for other flights since it won't open up competition for domestic service to other airlines that provide one stop service to the London area. And as you said, it helps increase yields on other London flights. It's important to note that it isn't just FF awards that get routed through RDU, but also cheaper airfare itineraries. For example, one couple I sat next to on an RDU-ORD flight were not traveling ORD-LON-ORD on an award but it was cheaper for them to fly through RDU. Does anybody know how the first/business fares differ for ORD-LHR from RDU-LGW?

Quoting Commavia (Reply 22):
Yes. AA has a small flight attendant base in Raleigh/Durham that handles only this single daily flight.

I assume that the pilots are DFW based, though, right?

cheers.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:22 am

Anyone know the load factors on the LGW-RDU route?

From what I have read in previous threads you can get a very comfy ride on this flight in Y and regularly you can get a whole row of seats to yourself?

Is this true?
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 24):
Does anybody know how the first/business fares differ for ORD-LHR from RDU-LGW?

The most expensive F fare, with zero restrictions, for AA's London flights are:
LAX-LHR: $14,054
MIA-LHR: $11,963
ORD-LHR: $11,663
BOS-LHR: $11,545
JFK-LHR: $11,324
RDU-LGW: $9,699
DFW-LGW:$7,896
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FlyPIJets
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
The reason is because AA was unable to find a way to upgrade DFW-LGW to 2x 777s without making RDU-LGW a 772. The original plan was taking the 777 from DFW-KIX and making the 2nd daily DFW-LGW flight a 772.

I'm confused.

A quick check (date in Nov and Dec) of AA.com and the second (AA78/79) DFW-LGW shows as a 763. So if the point was to make DFW-LGW all T7, doesn't seem like that is happening. And if AA wanted the 763 on the RDU-LGW route couldn't they use the AA78/79 birds (or is that just one a/c and there isn't another 763 for the route DFW-LGW-RDU.....).

???
Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 27):
A quick check (date in Nov and Dec) of AA.com and the second (AA78/79) DFW-LGW shows as a 763. So if the point was to make DFW-LGW all T7, doesn't seem like that is happening. And if AA wanted the 763 on the RDU-LGW route couldn't they use the AA78/79 birds (or is that just one a/c and there isn't another 763 for the route DFW-LGW-RDU.....).

They can't make DFW-LGW all-777 without making RDU-LGW a 777. However, if they make RDU-LGW a 777, then they can't make DFW-LGW all-777. They only have enough 777s to make two of their three Gatwick flights a 777. If RDU is that one flight made a 763, then there are complicated issues positioning the 763 to fly that route.
a.
 
dank
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 27):
I'm confused.

A quick check (date in Nov and Dec) of AA.com and the second (AA78/79) DFW-LGW shows as a 763. So if the point was to make DFW-LGW all T7, doesn't seem like that is happening. And if AA wanted the 763 on the RDU-LGW route couldn't they use the AA78/79 birds (or is that just one a/c and there isn't another 763 for the route DFW-LGW-RDU.....).

???

The way I see it is that DFW-LGW is 1 772 and 1 763. During the summer RDU-LGW was a 763 (but it was a 777 in the past). Because RDU sees neither a 763 or a 777 for any other regularly scheduled routes, the logical use (including timing is to share a 763 or a 772 with one of the DFW-LGW flights (these are the three flights that AA flies to LGW; and this allows them to rotate planes with the RDU flight without having to use a positioning flight between some other station and RDU).

AA freed up another 772 when they dropped DFW-KIX. They evidently wanted to add it to the second DFW-LGW flight, but that would have meant that there would be no 763 to rotate with the RDU-LGW flight (unless they tried 1x weekly using a 763 on the DFW-LGW flight, etc. and would entail more time on the ground at Gatwick for the RDU flight which gets in earlier, i believe than either DFW flight and leaves after the first return DFW flight). Essentially, this means that they have to have the RDU-LGW flight share planes with at least one of the DFW flights, so if both DFW flights were flown with a 772, then the RDU flight would have to as well and AA doesn't have enough 772s to spare to go with a 772 on all three, so it goes back to the same situation as last year, 1 772 and 1 763 running DFW-LGW and 1 772 running RDU-LGW.

Hope that helped.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
The most expensive F fare, with zero restrictions, for AA's London flights are:

thanks. i wonder if they are able to get more at the expensive end for first and business on the RDU flight (or better loads) which help offset lower yields in y?

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 25):
From what I have read in previous threads you can get a very comfy ride on this flight in Y and regularly you can get a whole row of seats to yourself?

It is a good flight, in my experience, on the 777s in Y. PTVs and empty seats, particularly in the center sections (the 2s on the sides tended to be filled in my experience). Hopefully going to be flying this route more in the coming year, so I am happy to see it return to the 777s.

cheers.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 29):

thanks. i wonder if they are able to get more at the expensive end for first and business on the RDU flight (or better loads) which help offset lower yields in y?

No, they aren't.
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FlyPIJets
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
They can't make DFW-LGW all-777 without making RDU-LGW a 777. However, if they make RDU-LGW a 777, then they can't make DFW-LGW all-777. They only have enough 777s to make two of their three Gatwick flights a 777. If RDU is that one flight made a 763, then there are complicated issues positioning the 763 to fly that route.

Yeah, I step away from the computer a second and I get the problem. D-oh.

But, in some vague way, it does seem like AA could choose to send either a 763 or 777 on DFW-LGW-RDU-LGW-DFW and chooses the 777. Is that an indication of the route strength or just a function of fleet availability?

IOW - is the T7 on the RDU -LGW just there until AA finds a use for the DFW-KIX T7?

(I realize that would be a guess)
Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting FlyPIJets (Reply 31):
But, in some vague way, it does seem like AA could choose to send either a 763 or 777 on DFW-LGW-RDU-LGW-DFW and chooses the 777. Is that an indication of the route strength or just a function of fleet availability?

Combo of both. Fleet availability is the primary reason, as it best utilizes a 777. The fact that RDU-LGW promises premium and cargor revenue is another factor, of course.
a.
 
AJMIA
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Yes. During the winter, some days they get as many as 50-60 MIA-originating passengers on this flight.

Why don't they add a second daily MIA-LHR flight. We send sooo many people to LHR via RDU, JFK, BOS and ORD. I really think MIA could support the flight with no problems.

AJMIA
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commavia
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 33):
Why don't they add a second daily MIA-LHR flight. We send sooo many people to LHR via RDU, JFK, BOS and ORD. I really think MIA could support the flight with no problems.

They tried a double-daily MIA-LHR schedule. It eroded yields on the route. The schedule they have now, with a single daily flight and a second flight on Saturdays only, works perfectly. Besides, American would much rather dilute yielsd spread over many flights (and divert lower-yielding traffic onto a route like RDU-LGW) rather than dilute their very premium demand on MIA-LHR.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 33):
Why don't they add a second daily MIA-LHR flight. We send sooo many people to LHR via RDU, JFK, BOS and ORD. I really think MIA could support the flight with no problems.

MIA-LHR operates non-stop twice on Saturdays - which I never really understood why only on Saturday. Perhaps an aircraft allocation or scheduling issue? In addition I wonder if AA has the available Heathrow slot to make a daily, second MIA-LHR successful.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 33):
Why don't they add a second daily MIA-LHR flight. We send sooo many people to LHR via RDU, JFK, BOS and ORD. I really think MIA could support the flight with no problems.

AA 56/57 is AA's second most profitable trans-Atlantic flight. They run a second frequency on Saturdays year-round and, during the winter, on Sundays as well. The second frequency was tried in winter 03/04, but it eroded yields.

Essentially, one daily flight is enough for the high-yielding traffic on AA (especially since BA is the favourite on MIA-LHR), and while a second flight is easy to fill, it steals connecting traffic that help fill other routes during the slow winter (RDU and BOS mainly).

[Edited 2006-09-04 21:36:42]
a.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 34):
They tried a double-daily MIA-LHR schedule. It eroded yields on the route.

Thanks.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 36):
AA 56/57 is AA's second most profitable trans-Atlantic flight.

What's #1?
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 37):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 36):
AA 56/57 is AA's second most profitable trans-Atlantic flight.

What's #1?

ORD-MAN, believe it or not.
a.
 
flflyguy
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:39 am

My understanding is that the committments from GSK for business/first seats pay for the RDU-LGW flight. Anything we can book into Y is added gravy.
The views expressed are my own, and not necessarily those of my employer.
 
bnamaxx
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 5):
They drop the DFW-KIX flight on the 27th of October

They're dropping this again? Is this seasonal or permanent? How many times does this make, twice at least.
 
dank
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 40):
They're dropping this again? Is this seasonal or permanent? How many times does this make, twice at least.

I believe that this is the second time, but it wasn't dropped the first time for seasonality. I think they started the route initially in the late 90s (maybe 1998?) and discontinued it after 9/11. It was started up again this year and was cancelled due to a lack of profitability. With JAL entering OneWorld over the new year, they can probably start feeding passengers through NRT on JAL.

cheers.
 
2travel2know
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:46 am

If LGW-RDU is within a B757 range, Would AA ever consider flying that aircraft on that route?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
gigneil
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:07 am

A 757 wouldn't be able to offer the premium service the route demands without a subfleet.

N
 
dank
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 43):
A 757 wouldn't be able to offer the premium service the route demands without a subfleet.

N

Correct. I believe that they use the domestic configured 757s for MAN and Ireland 757 services. Add in the cargo benefits to running a widebody on the route...

cheers.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 44):
Correct. I believe that they use the domestic configured 757s for MAN and Ireland 757 services. Add in the cargo benefits to running a widebody on the route...

Not for long. Both Europe 757 routes - BOS-SNN and BOS-MAN - are being discontinued.
a.
 
jfk777
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:23 pm

The problem with some MIA-LHR-MIA was the time. MIA-LHR is fine. The second flight was earlier at 8:00am from LHR getting to MIA at 12:00 noon, too early for connections in LHR. The daily flights leaves at around 11:00 am getting to Miami at 2:30 pm.
 
bond007
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:09 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 22):
First off, the flight is profitable -- regardless of passenger sales or frequent flyer redemption, because large pharma companies based in the Research Triangle and/or the Greater London area (namely, GSK, etc.) basically subsidize the flight as a corporate shuttle and guarantee a level of front-end traffic to keep the plane flying every day.



Quoting FLFlyGuy (Reply 39):
My understanding is that the committments from GSK for business/first seats pay for the RDU-LGW flight.

I guess my question is...do we know this for a fact? How profitable is this route ... all things considered (crew positioning, maintenance, FA bases, etc.).

Do the pharma companies really pay enough up-front to subsidy the costs of the aircraft....even if Y is fairly empty (as many here say they have experienced?).

Hey, if it is...great for AA. I just assume the overall costs for this flight are more than the average AA 777 flight, so cannot be compared in the same light.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
commavia
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:22 pm

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 47):
I guess my question is...do we know this for a fact?

Yes. As has been discussed at length many times here on A.net, AA doesn't stick around in any markets -- particularly international -- if they are not profitable. AA has no problems with yanking service from a route, even if they've served it for years, if they think the plane can be used more profitably somewhere else. RDU-LGW is still here, so obviously AA feels -- at least to date -- that the route is still sufficiently profitable to justify an entire 767 (or 777, apparently, come October).

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 47):
How profitable is this route ... all things considered (crew positioning, maintenance, FA bases, etc.).

"Crew positioning" and "FA bases" is not expensive at all, because the majority of the flight crew (all the FAs) fly Raleigh-Gatwick, overnight, and then fly back. Only one hotel stay on each round-trip, not two, as once they get back to Raleigh, their homes are their hotels. As for maintenance, this flight would not be any more costly than any other 777 flights, especially since the planes are rotated in each day from D/FW, which is American's largest line maintenance station.

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 47):
Do the pharma companies really pay enough up-front to subsidy the costs of the aircraft

Yes.

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 47):
I just assume the overall costs for this flight are more than the average AA 777 flight, so cannot be compared in the same light.

Maybe slightly more, but only slightly. There is some equipment cost that AA has in RDU for international flying that gets spread across only this single daily flight, whereas in other cities many flights can use it, but those costs are fairly minimal.

[Edited 2006-09-05 15:24:30]
 
fbm3rd
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RE: AA RDU-LGW Back To 777 At The End Of October

Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:40 pm

Why did AA stop MIA-LGW? I flew this back in summer 1998...
FM III

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