MIAUA777
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UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:59 pm

With AA and CO equipping their fleets of 757s with winglets and using them for long flights, especially CO, will UA follow suit and start to introduce 757s on longer international flights?
 
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Stitch
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:09 pm

Unlikely. UA's primary European presence is FRA to feed LH flights and, to a lesser extent, LHR to feed BD flights. The other cities they serve are mostly O&D demand or partner hubs that have strong feeds into/from them.

Also, the PW powerplants UA uses are, I believe, the weakest model available on the 757, but in p.s. config, could probably cross the ocean, but I just don't think the traffic is there.
 
UA772IAD
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:16 pm

Additonally, the 757 much too important for UA's domestic flights. It is so versitile, that it is sent on flights as short as IAD-LGA, and flights as long as ORD-ANC, and SFO-LIH. I was at DEN yesterday, and all I saw was 757s. As Stich mentioned, Europe loads are strong enough for 744s 777s and 763s.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:27 pm

Unlikely. UA only has a subfleet of 16 ETOPS B757s and they are heavily committed to Hawaii. While others could be converted, I'm not sure if the cost involved would be worthwhile. In addition UA seems content riding out the recent winglet craze.

On the other hand 757s could help connect some Star cities such as IAD-LIS, IAD-MAD, IAD-Scandinavia.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BDL2DCA
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:06 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
On the other hand 757s could help connect some Star cities such as IAD-LIS, IAD-MAD, IAD-Scandinavia.

Let's think back a couple years when BD stuck the 757 on IAD-MAN. The flight, which had been doing well as a 332, took a turn for the worse with the wet-leased 757. The aircraft struggled to make the flight, and passengers found it to be just too far to go in a 757.

IAD (38°56'40"N 77°27'21"W) MAN (53°21'13"N 02°16'30"W) 3565 mi
IAD (38°56'40"N 77°27'21"W) LIS (38°46'53"N 09°08'09"W) 3591 mi
IAD (38°56'40"N 77°27'21"W) MAD (40°29'37"N 03°34'00"W) 3816 mi

IAD is really too far from Europe to use the 757 regularly. I know that CO has some flights in the 3500 mile range, but EWR is about an hour closer to Europe than IAD. If IAD-MAN struggled, I don't think IAD-LIS would happen reliably, and I'm SURE IAD-ARN would not work.
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LPLAspotter
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:11 pm

I think LIS is getting saturated from the US to quickly. It used to be only TP (which now flies the 332) and CO (757) and now they've got USAir (757) and I heard through this website that Delta is thinking of resuming their flights back there. I don't think LIS needs another carrier from the US.

LPLAspotter
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N1120A
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:22 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
Unlikely. UA only has a subfleet of 16 ETOPS B757s and they are heavily committed to Hawaii. While others could be converted, I'm not sure if the cost involved would be worthwhile. In addition UA seems content riding out the recent winglet craze.

Sticking winglets on their aircraft would save fuel on shorter flights too, so United would be well served to look up what it takes to pick them up. You are correct though about the reason we will likely not see United hoping the pond in their 757s and I will add that their non-ETOPS aircraft are also PW2037 powered and not certified to the full 255,000 pounds, which would be necessary for flights beyond Lisbon/Ireland/Great Britain. One thing that may work to United's advantage is that their 757s are rather new compared to most fleets of that size and they could possibly uprate their engines without component replacement.
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MCOflyer
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:43 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
You are correct though about the reason we will likely not see United hoping the pond in their 757s and I will add that their non-ETOPS aircraft are also PW2037 powered and not certified to the full 255,000

Agreed. The only routes UA runs with the ETOPS 757's are to Hawii. I think UA used to do a SJU run with the 757 from LAX.

MCOflyer
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bobnwa
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting Bdl2dca (Reply 4):
AD (38°56'40"N 77°27'21"W) MAN (53°21'13"N 02°16'30"W) 3565 mi
IAD (38°56'40"N 77°27'21"W) LIS (38°46'53"N 09°08'09"W) 3591 mi
IAD (38°56'40"N 77°27'21"W) MAD (40°29'37"N 03°34'00"W) 3816 mi

Aircraft distances are usually stated in nautical miles for comparison purposes.
 
roseflyer
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:56 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
Sticking winglets on their aircraft would save fuel on shorter flights too, so United would be well served to look up what it takes to pick them up.

That's not completely true. On short routes, the isn't much benefit to winglets and they can actually increase fuel consumption since they add weight. I don't know what distance makes them essentially break even. But on short trunk routes, the added weight will decrease efficiency. It would make sense to put them on the PS 757s and ETOPS subfleet though.
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unitednrt
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:56 pm

IIRC United has more PW2040 powered frames than it does 2037 frames, yet only 16 are certified ETOPS. I will get the exact number of 2040 frames when i go to work tomorrow.
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
tiago701
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 5):
I think LIS is getting saturated from the US to quickly

I don't think LIS is getting saturated of flights from and to the US. There is room for growth especially to the West Coast but also to the East coast as long as synergies are created within the several alliances connecting LIS and the hub to serve in the US.

One can only talk about saturation when loads start to drop or/and the yields decrease, which is not the case.

BOS, IAD and SFO come to mind when I think of possible new routes to LIS.

Tiago
 
Jamake1
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:51 am

Per recent company meetings at WHQ in Chicago, this question came up. United has NO plans to deploy 757's on any trans-Atlantic routes in the forseeable future. Furthermore, UA has fairly limited resources until at least 2010: The current fleet of 460 aircraft in which to work with...
United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting Tiago701 (Reply 11):
There is room for growth especially to the West Coast

You would know since you live on the mainland. However, I remember when TP used to fly an L1011-500 from LIS to TER and then LAX. That flight was always empty. As a matter of fact I took it 4 times and one time there were only 30 people on the aircraft between TER and LAX. Great for lying down in the middle and catching a snooze on a 9 hour flight!!

I agree with you that no synergies existed when that flight operated (1989 to 1991) if I remember correctly. So, flights to the West Coast would probably make more sense now.

LPLAspotter
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tiago701
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 13):
You would know since you live on the mainland. However, I remember when TP used to fly an L1011-500 from LIS to TER and then LAX. That flight was always empty. As a matter of fact I took it 4 times and one time there were only 30 people on the aircraft between TER and LAX. Great for lying down in the middle and catching a snooze on a 9 hour flight!!

I agree with you that no synergies existed when that flight operated (1989 to 1991) if I remember correctly. So, flights to the West Coast would probably make more sense now.

That flight was obviously aimed "only" to the Portuguese community in California. TP management only forgot that the majority of this community is concentrated in the San Francisco Bay Area (SFO/OAK).

Since then almost 20 years have passed and many changes occurred in Portugal and its infrastructures and economy. In the Bay area more than 300.000 people are Portuguese or of Portuguese ancestry that currently use other airlines such as CO, BA, LH, AF, KL to get to Portugal.

In my view there is demand for a 3/4 weekly flights between LIS and SFO. We'll see what happens although i can't see TP opening this route, not in the short term at least. Maybe there's a job for UASmile
 
jfk777
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:58 pm

UA's international amallest plane is the 767 and its should stay that way. The yields in southern Europe stink anyways. Milan's yields are better then Rome's because more BiZ traffic to Milan(fashion and Italy's Business Capital); Rome is more for tourists.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:56 pm

what are the differences between the 2037 and 2040? are there physical differences or can the engine be rated at either 37 or 40K?
 
unitednrt
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:10 am

As far as I've seen in my time at UA, there is no physical difference between the two plants, except for the power setting. A mechanic told me that a 2040 was just an uprated 2037 so the aircraft could reach its certified MTOW. This explanation was probably in layman's terms, but it worked for me.
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
worldtraveler
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:17 am

thanks... I thought so.

I'll be interested in knowing the number of UA 37s vs 40s UA. What is the MTOW on the 2037s and the lowest and highest on the 2040s?
 
unitednrt
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:26 am

MTOW on the 2040 plant powered 752 is 255,000, while i believe the 2037 plant powered is 240,000 i believe. I'll check my numbers for the number of 37s and 40s, and the exact MTOWs.
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
unitednrt
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:41 am

United operates 50 PW2040 powered frames and 47 2037 frames.

United B757-222 with PW2040 are certified for 255k, 550lbs shy of the max for the 757, while the PW2037s have MTOW of 240,000lbs.
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
worldtraveler
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:57 am

and are the 2040s used for Hawaii?
 
unitednrt
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:03 am

yes sir the 2040 B757-222 is used on Hawaii, United tries to keep the 16 ETOPS 757 rotating solely on the Hawaii stages, but you do see the type on lower 48 flights.

[Edited 2006-09-06 23:04:16]
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
worldtraveler
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RE: UA 757s Long Range International Flights?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:07 am

your a wealth of info... do you mind saying what area and station you are in?

I appreciate your insight.

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