aircanl1011
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Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:36 pm

An Orthodox Jew was praying while on an AC flight that was taxing for takeoff and was forced off the plane because the FA felt he was making other passengers nervous.

Who will get Kicked off an Air Canada flight next????

This is starting to be a habit for AC.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...ename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
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MCOflyer
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:39 pm

This freggin rediculous. I know several people that pray on planes.

MCOflyer
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jush
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plan

Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:51 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 1):
This freggin rediculous. I know several people that pray on planes.

Yep, I know a lot of people are doing this. But if they are violating safety rules like praying while taxiing for takeoff and they are not on their seat with their seatbelt fastened I think it's ok to warn someone and if one doesn't comply throw them out.

I remember my sister saying (F/A for Hapag Fly) on a flight to Tel Aviv that some jewish pax were getting up as early as the gear was retracted to pray in the aisle. They were also violating a lot of safety regulations and were getting up again just as the plane touched down.
I think this is not alright. Even if you religion wants you to pray at certain times or you have to wash yourself quite so often you should stick to the rules in an airplane or otherwise you can't fly on one.

But as the passenger was only praying in his seat I find it rather strange to force him to disembark. But I myself must admit cause I'm not so fond with other religions so I would be a little bit scared when someone beside me is praying inaudible and lurching back and for.

Regds
jush

[Edited 2006-09-06 14:52:51]
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leftshoe
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:55 pm

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 2):
On a trans-continental flight, a flight attendant walks up to a passenger of a middle eastern descent.
"What would you like to drink?" asks the flight attendant.
"I'm sorry, I cannot drink" responds the passenger, "I have to fly a plane in about 15 minutes."

Lol. That's a really good one!!!
 
manni
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:58 pm

From the article...

The action didn't seem to bother anyone, Faguy said, but a flight attendant approached the man and told him his praying was making other passengers nervous.

"The attendant actually recognized out loud that he wasn't a Muslim and that she was sorry for the situation but they had to ask him to leave," Faguy said.


So if it was a muslim, she wouldn't be sorry for the situation?
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Gr8Circle
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:13 pm

The Jewish association criticised the action of AC saying that the FA's should have recognised that the man was just praying and should have explained this to other pax......

May I ask how FA's are supposed to be able to recognise that a person is just praying harmlessly? With your head covered, chanting from a book, lurching back and forth.....in the year 2006, that amounts to 'SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOUR'.......anyone behaving like that, irrespective of religion, race, nationality, etc., can expect to attract unwanted attention.....people have to learn to behave normal and keep their personal habits (like praying) for before or after flights......

Let's not turn this into a Muslim or Jewish thing....it's plain dumb behaviour and if the FA felt nervous about, they did the right thing.....better to be safe than sorry in these times....
 
frequentflyer
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:36 pm

It should not be too much asking to anybody to abide by Safety protocols.

And if it is impossible to some folks, well then they cannot fly. Period.
Take off and live
 
A332
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:54 pm

I would kicked him off too... some people have no decency or respect for others.
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UAL4ever
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:54 pm

This is simply absurd. As an orthodox jew I pray on planes all the time and I have never had a problem. First of all they should have asked him to sit down and that would have been the end of it. I don't think a Jew praying on a plane who is not disturbing anyone should be thrown off of a plane. This incident is offensive to all Jews and in the future I will not fly Air Canada.
 
drgmobile
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:01 pm

This is starting to be a habit for AC.

Really? On what other occasions have you heard about this? In any case, don't blame the airline for the judgement of one flight crew.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 10):
This incident is offensive to all Jews and in the future I will not fly Air Canada.

What are you getting so upset about? The action was clearly not anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic, but anti-Moslem. The article details how the attendant had mistaken him for a moslem, but then realised, too late that he was an Hasidic Jew.

"The attendant actually recognized out loud that he wasn't a Muslim and that she was sorry for the situation but they had to ask him to leave," Faguy said.

It's an interesting case of religious freedom and its rights in the secular mainstream. Personally I don't have an issue with people praying beside me on board as long as they don't encroach on my space or do so in too loud or audible a manner.

Is there not a form of prayer that can be adapted for public space so as not to cause any negative impact and reaction?

Regards
MH
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ltbewr
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:30 pm

To me it suggests a lack of sensitivity or training of the f/a's and the ignorance of some pax. I am quite sure AC has a significant amount of Jewish pax and their staff should be aware of normal beheavor on the aircraft of major cultural groups.
 
drgmobile
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:32 pm

Don't forget this is Jazz we are talking about. Different company, now only partially (majority) owned by Air Canada and headquartered in Halifax......So they should be nicer!  Smile
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 2):
Imagine a Muslim person pray on the plane, that would probably cause a riot these days.



Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 12):
"The attendant actually recognized out loud that he wasn't a Muslim and that she was sorry for the situation but they had to ask him to leave," Faguy said.

That is rediculously absurd on AC part, mainly because they acknowdged the fact that if he was a Muslim, he wouldn't have kicked that passenger out. Frankly, I pray whenever I am in a long-haul flight, and I am proud of it no matter what the passengers think. There is nothing wrong with it. This shows how ignorant, unproffessional, and prejudice AC is.
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georgiaame
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 10):
As an orthodox jew I pray on planes all the time

As a non orthodox jew, I pray on planes all the time too. Especially Delta
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
FFlyer
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:05 am

As a Christian I never pray on planes. And...religion can't excuse you from following rules and regulations. The religion has to adapt.
 
Toulouse
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:09 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 6):
May I ask how FA's are supposed to be able to recognise that a person is just praying harmlessly? With your head covered, chanting from a book, lurching back and forth.....in the year 2006, that amounts to 'SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOUR'.......anyone behaving like that, irrespective of religion, race, nationality, etc., can expect to attract unwanted attention.....people have to learn to behave normal and keep their personal habits (like praying) for before or after flights......

What a ridiculouse statement. Praying in the year 2006 is now 'suspicios bahaviour'... what's the world coming to? Sad is all I can say. Nevertheless, please note my personal comments at end, in which I suppose I am to a certain extent recognising what you're saying.

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 8):
It should not be too much asking to anybody to abide by Safety protocols.

What safety protocols?? He was sitting in his bloody seat and praying? That is not in breach of any safety protocols I can think of...

Quoting A332 (Reply 9):
I would kicked him off too... some people have no decency or respect for others.

And may I ask you if you are being "decent" and "respectful" in your attitude?

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 10):
This incident is offensive to all Jews and in the future I will not fly Air Canada.

I agree, also very offensive to Muslims given the f/a's reaction, and offensive to any religion.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 12):
It's an interesting case of religious freedom and its rights in the secular mainstream. Personally I don't have an issue with people praying beside me on board as long as they don't encroach on my space or do so in too loud or audible a manner.

I totally agree with you.

Referring to my initial comment in which I quoted Gr8circle, I am a Roman Catholic and have a fairly solid faith in my religion. I usually pray when flying and always carry rosary beads which belonged to my grandfather and which my mother gave me. Yet, I admit I usually keep them in either my shirt pocket or another pocket in case I make a fellow passenger nervous, and always place then in my bag when going through security. It's sad, but I think we are lacking a certain freedom today to practise our religions in public. But to be kicked off a plane for doing so, I just don't get it. If the guy was some sort of nut, and down on his knees on the aisle or something else which would be breaking safety measures (and putting his life and that of fellow passengers in danger, then I'd totally understand what happened here, but that doesn't seem to be the case).
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hiflyer
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:12 am

Welcome to the 21st century where anyone of middle eastern characteristics are suspect because of the repeatitive actions and rhetoric of more than a few from that same region which are not universally condemed by their respective governments.

So...now 4000 miles away a person starts praying outloud, which is not normal behavior in the region, possibly looks, acts, and dresses a little different from those in the region. (covered his head and was lurching back and forth) Stereotype? You betcha. Error on the side of caution...thats the rule now. Does one need to pray more on Jazz than Air Canada...don't know.

You want to give sensitivity training to flt att's for 500 different religions and all their practices? right...when would they fly? classes would take them the next 20 years.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 16):
As a non orthodox jew, I pray on planes all the time too.

Personally, I think if you're in a public space, your conversations with God should be just that. I respect that others may feel differently, but if you're invading others' space with your beliefs (and this includes on airplanes) expect a little conflict.

I pray on planes too - I'm not an Orthodox Jew either.

Regards
MH
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swissy
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:32 am

Times have changed big time and "we" as passengers have to realize that no buts & ifs.......... I do not have a problem in general with people praying any were, however these people have to understand that things have changed for the bad and understand that others do not feel comfortable any more.....

So in a way I can understand the f/a, however taking the pax of the ac is a bit much...............

Cheers,
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 18):
Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 10):This incident is offensive to all Jews and in the future I will not fly Air Canada.
I agree, also very offensive to Muslims given the f/a's reaction, and offensive to any religion.

Couldn't have said it better! Thank you.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
OHLHD
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting AIRCANL1011 (Thread starter):
Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

...who else kicked a jew out?

If he was just sitting and not talking I can´t understand, but if he was praying loud and a half-singing ways I can undersatnd that others were " nervous" or annoyed.

But btw, how stu...d is this F/A that she cannot tell the differnce between an orthodox jew and an arab???
And the other pax as well.......  duck 
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 18):
What a ridiculouse statement. Praying in the year 2006 is now 'suspicios bahaviour'..

I'm not saying that praying is necessarily suspicious behaviour....however, the manner in which it is done can raise suspicion.......if this guy wanted to pray, he is fully entitled to do so.....just use common sense and do it in a way that does not attract unwarranted attention.....a lot of Hindus pray when they are outside their home or temple, but it usually involves closing your eyes and concnetrating on whatever you think of while praying...


If a person decides that he/she has to mutter loudly, rock back and forth and make other physical gestures while on a plane, that may not seem normal....well, they're asking for it....and there is a limit to all this religious freedom and stuff that people are talking about.....let everyone follow the same rules of behaviour while flying....such incidents will be minimised....
 
CRJpurser
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:55 am

Now please do not take this as being anti-semetic, as I am quite tolerant of EVERY religion.
However I have worked the YUL-LGA route many a time, and the only recurring problem-passengers were the Orthodox Jews. Some examples of their frequent behavior:
-refusal to stow their hand luggage (including their wives gigantic wig boxes)
-DEMANDING Kosher snacks
-sitting in J class with a Y ticket (it is unbelievable how much that happens!)
-not listening to female cabin crew (typically the young blond ones)
-refusing service from female cabin crew
-REFUSING to sit next to women (because they think women might be having their period!!!!???!!!!)

However I will say that the majority of the ones that pray (that I have had onboard) have always advised me of what they were going to to in advance. I tell them as long as it does not violate any cabin safety rules then Praise The Lord!
Hallelujah!
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 23):
...who else kicked a jew out?

I think AC also kicked out the other type of Semite, an Arab, a Moslem one at that.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 23):
But btw, how stu...d is this F/A that she cannot tell the differnce between an orthodox jew and an arab???

There was no mention of the passenger being mistaken for Arab, just a Moslem.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
ultrapig
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:06 am

As most of you know I'm Jewish. I have little tolerance for people with little tolerance-but praying is a personal thing. This passenger was obviously not just reading silently from a prayer book but "Davening "or rocking back and forth. Not approprirate for a public secular place. I don't have a problem with him being asked to stop.

If he wanted to Daven on a plane he could have flown El Al!

I don't like it when people attack Israel or Jews-but I also don't like people like Jerry Seinfeld's "Uncle Morty" who saw an anti-semite behind over tree!
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 27):
As most of you know I'm Jewish.

I had no idea you even existed until a moment ago.

Nice sentiments. And thanks, I'd forgotten the Wailing-Wall Rock was called Davening.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
CRJpurser
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 27):
As most of you know I'm Jewish. I have little tolerance for people with little tolerance-but praying is a personal thing. This passenger was obviously not just reading silently from a prayer book but "Davening "or rocking back and forth. Not approprirate for a public secular place. I don't have a problem with him being asked to stop.

If he wanted to Daven on a plane he could have flown El Al!

I don't like it when people attack Israel or Jews-but I also don't like people like Jerry Seinfeld's "Uncle Morty" who saw an anti-semite behind over tree!

Excellant post!!
 
cy319
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 2):
What would you like to drink?" asks the flight attendant.
"I'm sorry, I cannot drink" responds the passenger, "I have to fly a plane in about 15 minutes."

that was a good one!!!!!  Smile)

I flew AZ few months ago on MXP-LHR. Half of the passengers were orthdodox jews returning to England from Israel. I was surprised to see them wearing gloves so as to avoid hand to hand contact with the FAs during the meal service. If i were a FA, i would be pissed!!!!!!!!!
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AI
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:28 am

This is a bit scary for me personally.
my mother travels a lot & she always has Bhagvad Gita (holy book for the Hindus) with her which she reads on the plane. it usually takes her 1/2 hr to finish that. she doesnt read loudly or chant or lurch back & forth, but in these over-sensitive times, just reading from a religious book might be enough to make someone nervous, esp if the concerned pax is asian ("middle eastern") in appearance. & it seems to be so easy to get thrown out of an aircraft these days.

AI.
 
rikkus67
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:47 am

I am quoting this reply from the article on jpost.com, although I do not necessarily agree with the last line.....

Quote:
33. Welcome to the post 9.11 world, people
Jacob Blues - USA
09/06/2006 16:25

As a white knuckle flyer myself, I fully understand the concern of the passengers while sympathyzing with the Jew trying to daven. Dan pointed out the common sense of the issue. In a world where people don't have a ready knowledge of Hewbrew, and are likely to be unfamiliar with the customs of davening, yes, such actions can raise the concern of other passengers. Were a Muslim to act in a similar way, I would be just as quick to alert the flight attendents.

As far as I can see there are two issues that arose here:

1/ the poor reaction to the situation by the flight attendant
2/ the lack of being able to communicate with the passenger

I think both sides of this issue need to be addressed.

The flight attendant should have never made the statement in the first place, further making the situation uncomfortable...this showed a complete lack of sensitivity.
HOWEVER, if the passenger cannot communicate in the language that is used in WHATEVER country he/she is in, the airline should be made aware (considering emergency situations). Whenever I travel abroad, I always make myself well aware of the customs of the country I am in, AND ABIDE BY THE LOCAL CUSTOMS.

There must be some onus on the passenger to recognize this, and not be so critical of an airline looking after the interests/safety/comfort of ALLon board.

It is an unfortunate reality that one persons customs/beliefs/religion can cause another uncomfort. It is in the best interest of EVERYONE EVERYWHERE to become more respectful of others. We are now, more than ever "global" in every aspect of life. Unfortunately, Canada is losing its founding ideal of a "Cultural Mosaic", and giving into the "Melting Pot" mentality that everyone has to be the same. Why do we have to stifle diversity?? Sad.
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v jet
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:49 am

Wouldn't it be easier if there were no religions.......
 
OHLHD
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 26):
just a Moslem.

Ah, ok , did not read that. Thks
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting V Jet (Reply 35):
Wouldn't it be easier if there were no religions.......

Or just one?
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trvyyz
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plan

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:14 am

What are the rules on Praying on an a/c?
Are there any written rules?

I don't usually pray on an a/c unless there is some heavy turbulence Wink



A quiet mental prayer would be the best on board.

I don't think there are any such rules for prayers for Roman Catholics (or maybe I am just a bad one  Wink)
 
aer lingus
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:16 am

Some bits from the article.

If the F/A know he was a Jew praying and making some of the pax nervous. The F/A should have explained to the other passengers that the man was simply praying and doing no harm and kept the guy on the plane instead of removing him from the flight.

If airlines are so scared of terrorists and hijackers. They can use one of my uncle's idea. After take off and after the all the pax had their meals. The F/A's would go to a special area that has a airtight door which separates them with the cabin. The F/A's would then switch on this vent that releases this type of gas which makes all the pax drowsy until 30 minutes before landing.

I know this idea of my uncle is a little ridiculus. It is potentially dangerous in a emergency. Apart from that I think this idea is ok (the flight might be more comfortable on long flights, who knows).

 bigthumbsup 
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777fan
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:17 am

Sadly, "turnabout is fair play": http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...ry/2006/08/18/doctor-winnipeg.html

The AC incident is strange because, as that article states, the pax wasn't alarming the pax who apparently knew what was going on. His biggest crime appeared to be that he didn't speak English or French.

The second incident (link above), IMO, is a bit different because the UA pax obviously spoke English and presumably explained what was going on but was still forced to endure the same fate as the Jazz pax.

It's unfortunate that things have come to this; a few zealots have made something as harmlessly beautiful as a prayer an action that apparently bears extra scrutiny. F-ing terrorists...


777fan
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WesternA318
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 5):
So if it was a muslim, she wouldn't be sorry for the situation?

Ahh, welcome to the new world order, everyones afraid of the raghead.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 16):
As a non orthodox jew, I pray on planes all the time too. Especially Delta

LOL, I dont blame you.

Quoting CRJpurser (Reply 25):
However I have worked the YUL-LGA route many a time, and the only recurring problem-passengers were the Orthodox Jews. Some examples of their frequent behavior:
-refusal to stow their hand luggage (including their wives gigantic wig boxes)
-DEMANDING Kosher snacks
-sitting in J class with a Y ticket (it is unbelievable how much that happens!)
-not listening to female cabin crew (typically the young blond ones)
-refusing service from female cabin crew
-REFUSING to sit next to women (because they think women might be having their period!!!!???!!!!)

See, thats just insane. No wonder I cant stand too many of the religious types.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting AIRCANL1011 (Thread starter):
An Orthodox Jew was praying while on an AC flight that was taxing for takeoff and was forced off the plane because the FA felt he was making other passengers nervous.

lads of Pakistani/Indian origin being too heavily dressed for the expectation of fellow passengers, an Iraqi having a t-shirt with a semi-lingual text and now that religious Jew . What about some tolerance, some common sense, some relaxed approach to such things ? Why getting so extreme ? Such things simply should NOT happen.
 
Coronado990
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 6):
May I ask how FA's are supposed to be able to recognise that a person is just praying harmlessly? With your head covered, chanting from a book, lurching back and forth.....in the year 2006, that amounts to 'SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOUR'.......anyone behaving like that, irrespective of religion, race, nationality, etc., can expect to attract unwanted attention.....people have to learn to behave normal and keep their personal habits (like praying) for before or after flights

So what's normal this day and age if you are a little nervous before a flight? Oh yeah that's right, just take a lot of pharmaceutical drugs so you don't know if you are coming or going. Out with the praying, in with the drugs! Is that what is normal to you in the western world?
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
777fan
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 46):
Out with the praying, in with the drugs! Is that what is normal to you in the western world?

No kidding. "Wacked out-ism" appears to be the latest religious incarnation of many in this country. Sad.


777fan
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Gr8Circle
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 46):
So what's normal this day and age if you are a little nervous before a flight? Oh yeah that's right, just take a lot of pharmaceutical drugs so you don't know if you are coming or going. Out with the praying, in with the drugs! Is that what is normal to you in the western world?

Normal to me means avoiding any actions that may draw unwarranted attention to you.....in this age and taking into consideration the events in the past 5 years or so, one just needs to have common sense as to what constitutes normal behaviour.....everyone expects FA's and airport security to be superhuman beings and guess what are the real intentions of a pax whom they observe to be behaving strangely.....I think that's quite unreasonable....

I once again repeat that I am not saying people should not pray....why am I being misquoted again and again....just do it in a way that does not attract undue attention....

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 45):
What about some tolerance, some common sense, some relaxed approach to such things ? Why getting so extreme ? Such things simply should NOT happen.

Unfortunately, if you flip back the pages and take a look at the images of 9/11, you will see what happened as a result of 'relaxed approach'....tolerance is fine to talk about, but on flights carrying hundreds of pax of varying nationalities and cultures, it is the pax's responsibility to ensure that he/she does not do something to make themselves stand out and attract attention....i don't think that's asking for a lot from people....
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 46):
So what's normal this day and age if you are a little nervous before a flight?

Yes, airlines ought to distribute free samples of tranquilizers to all passengers. Good adverts on the packings "fly carefree with XXXX" "relaxed flying guaranteed if taking xxxx" "get over nervousness and anger and concern, simply take XXX-help and feel free of all ... ". And of course, slogans like "Sandoz" "Hoffroche" "Rhone-Poulenc" "will take better care of you ! " -
 
rammstein
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting CRJpurser (Reply 25):
However I have worked the YUL-LGA route many a time, and the only recurring problem-passengers were the Orthodox Jews. Some examples of their frequent behavior:
-refusal to stow their hand luggage (including their wives gigantic wig boxes)
-DEMANDING Kosher snacks
-sitting in J class with a Y ticket (it is unbelievable how much that happens!)
-not listening to female cabin crew (typically the young blond ones)
-refusing service from female cabin crew
-REFUSING to sit next to women (because they think women might be having their period!!!!???!!!!)

This is unbelievable... I wonder what is the excuse they have to sit in J class while they have a Y ticket. And about the fact they don't want to sit next to women, if the FA doesn't satisfy their requests, how is is the FA treated? Like "You are anti-semitic"?  crazy 
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 50):
unbelievable..

rather difficult customers for sure, similar to many Saudis. But no reason to remove them from a flight.
 
haggis79
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:05 pm

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 23):
But btw, how stu...d is this F/A that she cannot tell the differnce between an orthodox jew and an arab???

so are you suggesting that praying for an orthodox jew is ok on a plane but not for an arab?
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777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:05 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 52):
so are you suggesting that praying for an orthodox jew is ok on a plane but not for an arab?

Apparently not. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...ry/2006/08/18/doctor-winnipeg.html

Let's face it: in the wake of 9/11, the shoe bomber, and the recent TransAtlantic plot, a good number of people in the West start to "ping" when they sense any sort of "unusual" behavior by someone that appears to be Muslim, Orthodox/Hasidic Jewish, Sikh, etc. on an aircraft. The heightened sense of awareness leads to "false alarms". Such as the ones being discussed in this forum.


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
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RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Jush (Reply 3):
if they are violating safety rules like praying while taxiing for takeoff

A link showing were this violates the rules please. Let me save u the trouble, you will not find one. Absurd statement.

Quoting Manni (Reply 5):
The action didn't seem to bother anyone, Faguy said, but a flight attendant approached the man and told him his praying was making other passengers nervous.

I am sure it just bothered that under-trained flight attendant. Piss poor customer training on Air Canada's part. Either that or she was trained properly on how to recoginze different religous practices (you would think airlines would have some sort of training on this to avert what happened) and was just being a paranoid "the boogeyman is around every corner" type person.

Quoting A332 (Reply 9):
I would kicked him off too... some people have no decency or respect for others

Dumbest statement of the day award goes to you..congrats.

Quoting CRJpurser (Reply 25):
-refusal to stow their hand luggage (including their wives gigantic wig boxes)
-DEMANDING Kosher snacks
-sitting in J class with a Y ticket (it is unbelievable how much that happens!)
-not listening to female cabin crew (typically the young blond ones)
-refusing service from female cabin crew
-REFUSING to sit next to women (because they think women might be having their period!!!!???!!!!)

All legit reasons for actually kicking someone off.

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 27):
This passenger was obviously not just reading silently from a prayer book but "Davening "or rocking back and forth.

If he was rocking back and forth and smashing his seatback to the point of disrupting the passenger behind him...I see the point in asking him to stop.
 
haggis79
Posts: 535
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:05 pm

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 40):
My tolerance for other people's religions as for only limit that they should not put my own life at risk for religious reasons.

I don't think anyone praying on board of a plane (as long as staying in his/her seat and obeying to safety rules, which seems to be the case in this particular incident) is putting anyone's life at risk....

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 48):
Unfortunately, if you flip back the pages and take a look at the images of 9/11, you will see what happened as a result of 'relaxed approach'....tolerance is fine to talk about, but on flights carrying hundreds of pax of varying nationalities and cultures, it is the pax's responsibility to ensure that he/she does not do something to make themselves stand out and attract attention....i don't think that's asking for a lot from people....

So, don't you think the terrorists wouldn't be smart enough to adopt that attitude of 'don't stand out' as well? As far as I know there was no unusual behaviour reported for the 9/11 terrorists.... IMO this is more about people's prejudices than about air travel safety...  worried 
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PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: Air Canada Also Kicks An Orthodox Jew Off Plane

Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:17 am

I think the world of Air travel is going crazy. I am muslim and I always say a prayer to myself whenever I travel. I think AC is wrong for throwing anyone
off their plane.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!

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