777lover
Topic Author
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2001 11:36 pm

Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:45 am

Do you think or do you know that if American gets service to China from Dallas, will that prompt them to get new aircraft (new types, not just acquiring more airframes)? Maybe the 7772LR, for instance...

If this has been discussed already, thank you in advance for directing me to the thread.
 
commavia
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:06 am

No. AA does not need the -200LR in order to operate DFW-PEK nonstop, round-trip, year-round. The -200IGW that they already operate can do the route. And no, they are not going to be ordering new planes in order to operate this flight. If they get the route, existing 777 equipment already in-house will be used.
 
Stratofortress
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RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:21 am

ORD-PVG is served using the 777s they already have. As Commavia said, they will just continue to use what they already have. There is no issue with range.
Forever New Frontiers
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:44 am

... now if you're talking about DFW-Hong Kong, you might need new equipment. DFW-Beijing is only a bit a longer than JFK-NRT and bit shorter than ORD-PVG and ORD-DEL.
 
Sean-SAN-
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RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:15 am

AA simply will not be expanding until the TWA employee recall rights expire in a few more years. Why pay FA's at 15 year seniority when you can hire new ones at much lower rates!
 
jfk777
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RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:11 am

I pitty AA Asian decisions though, Gave up ORD-Nagoya and don't fly to Hong Kong. HKG is the second most important city in Asia, Since Cathay serves LAX, SFO and JFK how about ORD to HKG. Nagoya could have worked if the accountants had let it, maybe AA should consider 777 with BIZ and coach only, no First Class. Not every market can suppport a 3 class 777, but a 2 class could have worked.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:19 am

no LR needed, but look for 739 and 787 order by years end.

 bouncy 
 
scaledesigns
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:12 am

RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:27 am

I dont think AA will go for longer range 777s.They already do the ORD-DEL
flights everyday,and they dont take any weight restrictions.They also
go out fully loaded with cargo and pax as the route is doing very very well.
The airlines have to disclose load factors,so its no secret.
F1 Tommy
 
N62NA
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RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting Fxramper (Reply 6):
but look for 739 and 787 order by years end.

739? You're kidding, right?

The next aircraft type - it seems to me - that AA will be ordering will be a replacement for the A300-605R aircraft that will have their leases expiring starting in the next few years.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
I pitty AA Asian decisions though, Gave up ORD-Nagoya and don't fly to Hong Kong. HKG is the second most important city in Asia, Since Cathay serves LAX, SFO and JFK how about ORD to HKG. Nagoya could have worked if the accountants had let it, maybe AA should consider 777 with BIZ and coach only, no First Class. Not every market can suppport a 3 class 777, but a 2 class could have worked.

AA needed the ORD-NGO 777's for other routes..such as ORD-DEL, ORD-PVG..turned out to be a good decision...

Maybe if they order some 787's, they can restart ORD-NGO as well as SJC-NRT (doubt this one though)...

Would like to see AA fly ORD-HKG also..
"Up the Irons!"
 
AADC10
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RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
HKG is the second most important city in Asia,

How do you figure that? What is the most important city?

AA probably does not fly to HKG because it is out of range of their hubs. The hot business destination in the Pacific has been Shanghai anyway. The biggest destination is still probably Tokyo.
 
commavia
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:26 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 10):
How do you figure that? What is the most important city?

For American business, Tokyo is, in my opinion, still the single most important city in Asia, with Hong Kong definitely a close second. In due time, however, Beijing and Shanghai will both move up that list quite promenently, and one day perhaps figure at the top of it.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 10):
AA probably does not fly to HKG because it is out of range of their hubs. The hot business destination in the Pacific has been Shanghai anyway. The biggest destination is still probably Tokyo.

It's not an issue of range. AA's 777s can do Chicago-Hong Kong easily, and have done it before on test flights. The issue is aircraft availability. American -- at least up to the past few months -- did not have any 777 capacity to spare, as all their planes were being used quite intensively. Now, they have a few planes to spare, but have chosen instead to commit them to South America -- a market in which American dominates -- and then to utilize them on a new route to Beijing from their D/FW hub, if they get the route authority.

I still do believe that somewhere down the line, an AA flight Chicago-Hong Kong is virtually a matter of if, not when. It would plug in one of the nation's largest air hubs with one Asia's largest air hubs, along with the home base for one of American's most important oneworld alliance and codeshare partners. This will become even more benefitial to both sides, and particularly American, if the Cathay-Dragonair merger eventually materializes, and American can place its code on Dragonair flights to dozens of cities within interior mainland China. What an absolute goldmine that route would (will) be.
 
ripcordd
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RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:26 am

HKG is not out of the range of their hubs at all. They have been talks of them flying the route for years but nothing ever came of it. You will prob see them there in the near future esp with the PVG route doing so well and adding to the bottom line. They are looking at routes like that to bring in the money..Anyways the way they want to expand in Asia they will need a aircraft order they cant keep cutting other routes and adding new ones they have a pretty lean route system now with most of the under performing routes gone.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 4):
AA simply will not be expanding until the TWA employee recall rights expire in a few more years. Why pay FA's at 15 year seniority when you can hire new ones at much lower rates!

Anyone that had 15 years with TWA could be flying Eagle right now, albeit for about 70% of what mainline earns.

I know several for TWA f/a's who are doing it now.

I also know of three very senior Delta flight attendants who have recently retired and gone to American Eagle. I understand Eagle is very flexible when it comes to picking up and giving away trips, much more so than mainline AA. These ladies have retired from Delta and work for Eagle the minimum every month and are as happy as can be.

Sounds like a plan for me. Just a few more months and I'll be eligible (and ready) to retire.

To address the thread directly, I don't think AA will be adding to the fleet anytime soon. They are dropping long established long-haul routes to facilitate these new ones. There must be a lot of confidence in their potential for profitability.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Carpethead
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Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 5):
HKG is the second most important city in Asia

I don't know, but I'll bet Seoul, Bangkok, & Singapore will have equal arguments for being either second or even most important city in (East) Asia.

Quoting 777lover (Thread starter):

AA is starting to turn the corner fiscally. There will be no new aircraft type introduced except maybe the 787, but not before 2010. It would be nice to see AA expand its widebody fleet though.
 
CHIFLYGUY
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:14 pm

RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:29 pm

AA might start a stray route or two, but it doesn't seem like they are likely to be really building a larger Asian presence any time soon. They don't have the planes for it and show no signs of getting anymore.

AA's approach has been to focus on trying to build a large presence to premier overseas business destinations from multiple US gateways. They've done this to LHR, CDG, NRT, GRU, and EZE.

If AA were to expand in Asia, where would they do it?

o Obviously anything they can get in China is a no-brainer.

o I would actually not be surprised to see additional NRT service, possibly from existing gateways at ORD or JFK, if they could get good slots. Especially with JAL joining oneworld. Going to double daily in JFK would be a good preemptive move against Delta now that United is throwing in the towel. This would obviously hurt yield, however.

o They have started DEL. Perhaps additional service to India from additional gateways would be possible. BOM would be great if they had the planes.

o HKG is the other possibility. ORD-HKG might be good, but just that one route by itself wouldn't be where AA has had success before. Those stray Asia flights like KIX and NGO have not worked out. Rather, if they could do another NRT in HKG, including a deeper, ATI-qualified, full-revenue sharing, etc. agreement with Cathay, that might be a way to further the Asia buildup. Maybe fly there from 3 or so different gateways. Can AA get 5th freedom in HKG? UA seems to have it. There are extra frequencies to secondary cities in China just waiting to be picked up. Claim them and go to work as a tag off HKG. Ok, I'm starting to engage in wild speculation.

Other that these three areas, I don't see anything logical for AA to do in Asia. In the short term, they are likely to sit tight and watch how the NW bankruptcy plays out and if the Asia routes will end up in play.
 
tristanhnl
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:47 pm

RE: Will AA China Service Prompt New Equipment?

Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:10 pm

If Continental can do EWR-HKG (although with slight restrictions in the winter if I'm not mistaken), I'd imagine American can do ORD-HKG. So that argument's out the window.
Hong Kong: truly Asia's world city!