8herveg
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Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:17 am

I was wondering, since Dubai and Abu Dhabi are in the same country, why do they have two main different airlines and not just one? Say, Emirates?
 
COSPN
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:28 am

Its a Long Drive DXB AUH and no flights......
 
antonovman
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:34 am

are they in the same country ? well yes i guess they are , the united arab emirates, but they are from a differant "emirate" arent they ? i think its a bit like having air england, air scotland and air wales
 
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Vasu
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:40 am

I'm sure its a good thing... promotes competition...
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi

Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:50 am

Every Royal Family of every seperate Emirate has it's own Ego to worry about these days, hence why Abu Dhabi chose not to be a co-owner of Gulf Air anymore and instead go at it alone with Etihad.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 2):
Its a Long Drive DXB AUH and no flights......

Roughly 75 miles airport-to-airport on a 4-line devided freeway, not really a long drive.
 
MSYYZ
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:03 am

For every Emirati citizen there are 4 foreigners who live and work in the UAE .
There are almost 800.000 Emirati and about 3.2 Million foreigners . Now these foreigners travel back and forth every year to/from their home countries , and if you add business and tourism trips plus transit pax , that's a big market .
The United Arab Emirates have 3 Airlines :
Etihad of Abu Dhabi .
Emirates of Dubai .
Arabiya of Sharjah ( an LCC ) .
And there is another emirate that is planning to have its own Airline , i believe it is Al Fujaira .

[Edited 2006-09-08 01:05:23]
A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
 
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Vasu
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 6):
Arabiya of Sharjah ( an LCC ) .

Air Arabia?
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
since Dubai and Abu Dhabi are in the same country, why do they have two main different airlines and not just one?

Do you mean state-owned? Otherwise, I don't understand your point.

In that case, they are more precisely emirate-owned (please correct me if I'm wrong!), and Abu Dhabi and Dubai are 2 different emirates.

China would be the country having the most comparable system, although all the different airlines are owned by the same central government, but all based in different parts of the country.
When I doubt... go running!
 
travelin man
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:23 am

It seems to me there would be a shake-out of the Gulf area carriers.

Etihad
Qatar
Emirates
Gulf
Kuwait
Saudi Arabian
Yemenia

It seems like a huge concentration of airlines in a relatively small area. And I know it seems all of them are ordering large amounts of planes. Something will have to give at some point.
 
vv701
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:17 am

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
was wondering, since Dubai and Abu Dhabi are in the same country, why do they have two main different airlines and not just one?

There is the Emirates thing. But BA, BD and VS are not only based in the same country but at the same airport. Competition is good for the consumer.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 9):
It seems to me there would be a shake-out of the Gulf area carriers.

Etihad
Qatar
Emirates
Gulf
Kuwait
Saudi Arabian
Yemenia

Yemania is based in Sana which must be at least 1,000 miles from the Gulf. The bases of the likes of Royal Jordanian, Syrian, Middle East Airlines, Oman Airways, Iran Air, Pakistan International and even some of the Indian airlines are all probably closer to the Gulf.

Saudi Arabia is large geographically. For example it is around 700 miles from arguably its commercial centre, Jiddah (on the Red Sea coast) to its 'oil' capital, Dammam (close to Bahrain on the Gulf coast). And the surface transport links are very poor from the Gulf to the Red Sea and from both to the capital, Riyadh. So Saudi Arabia needs a domestic airline and, with its oil wealth, can afford an international airline.

Etihad, Emirates and Gulf could be based almost anywhere between the eastern Mediterranean and Malaysia. The compete with each other and Singapore Airlines and Thai to carry passengers from Europe to their hub and then on to the Far East and Australasia. They also compete for passengers flying from Europe to southern Africa.

Both India and China are within this operating area. The combined populations of these two countries are around 2.25 to 2.5 billion. Their economies are amongst the fastest growing in the world. In south east Asian countries like Thailand many workers in the travel industry have already learned to speak Mandarin as the flow of Chinese tourists to their country is already very strong. This flow will grow rapidly with as many as 100 million Chinese taking foreign holidays within the next year or two. This, of course, is a huge number but less than ten per cent of the population. And if just a few per cent of these tourists head beyond south east Asia there could be very rich pickings for airlines with the capacity to meet this new demand.

Here it is worth noting that Indian and Chinese tourism will be a very important way for them to use the Dollars, Euros and Ponds that they earn from selling the West services as well as huge quantaties of manufactured goods.
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:54 pm

Basically, Abu Dhabi and Dubai are competing for tourists, and having international airlines will help them promote their respective cities. Plus, Abu Dhabi and Dubai are both metropolitan cities and they need direct flights to major cities.

Plus, the local state goverment (the word emirates is the Arabic word for state), of Dubai helps out Emirates finacially and operationally, and therefore will not benifit if it had flights out of Abu Dhabi.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:23 pm

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 9):
It seems like a huge concentration of airlines in a relatively small area. And I know it seems all of them are ordering large amounts of planes. Something will have to give at some point.

Apart from the excellent points made by some in above replies, as long as there is a huge migrant labour population in the Middle East, mainly from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and other countries in the region, there will be a need for several airlines and all can survive.....

In addition, they provide a useful alternative for pax travelling from India to the US and Europe.....add to that the tourism potential of the Middle East and there is place for all.....
 
Leezyjet
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:29 pm

I heard that names of the 3 seperate airlines make up the name of the country.

Etihad = United
Arabiya = Arab
Emirates = Emirates

Quite cool really if it's true !!.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 6):
For every Emirati citizen there are 4 foreigners who live and work in the UAE .
There are almost 800.000 Emirati and about 3.2 Million foreigners . Now these foreigners travel back and forth every year to/from their home countries , and if you add business and tourism trips plus transit pax , that's a big market .

Most of those foreigners can barely afford to travel and only travel to the Indian Subcontinent and Southeast Asia. The vast majority of passengers that fly these carriers, and the ones they're trying to capture, are connecting passengers. If any or all of these carriers had to depend on the local market all but one would fold, and the remaining one would be probably a quarter of its current size.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
soups
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:26 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 13):
Etihad = United
Arabiya = Arab
Emirates = Emirates

Quite cool really if it's true !!.

Arabiya is Arabian..... well u can consider it as arab as well
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi

Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):

Emirate penis envy.

Ridiculous - it's not like these airlines barely survive and fly around empty planes.  Yeah sure

It may look strange for people without background knowledge about the UAE and these airlines in particular, but the market is there and it would be foolish not to take the chance.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5):
Every Royal Family of every seperate Emirate has it's own Ego to worry about these days, hence why Abu Dhabi chose not to be a co-owner of Gulf Air anymore and instead go at it alone with Etihad.

Gulf Air has never been a pure UAE carrier and has not operated very efficiently with four hubs at AUH, BAH, DOH and MCT. So why not build up a strong home carrier from AUH? Sound like a smart business decision.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 5):
Roughly 75 miles airport-to-airport on a 4-line devided freeway, not really a long drive.

Still a long distance for doing business at or around Abu Dhabi.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
The vast majority of passengers that fly these carriers, and the ones they're trying to capture, are connecting passengers. If any or all of these carriers had to depend on the local market all but one would fold, and the remaining one would be probably a quarter of its current size.

O&D traffic is growing massively at Abu Dhabi and Dubai, one shouldn't forget to mention...


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
polaris
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:22 am

This is basically no different than one country having multiple airlines based/hubbing in different cities.
 
HellKelpie
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 2:54 am

Etihad is the national airline of the UAE, based in the national capital, Abu Dhabi. Their aircraft have the national crest on their tails.

Emirates, while probably owned by royalty, is, I think, a private company. Based in the city in which the owners are based - Dubai. Shoot me down if you know better, this is just what I've picked up from living here.

Flying AUH-DXB? There is one leg of a GF that does it, but if the road journey takes 90 minutes, and flying - with ticketing, checking in, security and every other bloody thing - would probably take four hours for a 25 minute flight ... hey, drive it.

Tourism: had any of you heard of Abu Dhabi before you came to the Gulf? It hasn't been a player in the industry until very recently. We're about to go through what Dubai's been "enjoying" for the last decade or so.

The first thing they'll need is a decent sized airport. AUH is devilish cute, but not/not designed for high volume throughput.

H
 
a389
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 16):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):

Emirate penis envy.

Ridiculous - it's not like these airlines barely survive and fly around empty planes.

It may sound strange...but pretty much describes what's going on between Dubai and Abu Dhabi.... just that Dubai is one decade ahead.... give them some time... they are trying to catch up.. which in my opinion is not possible anymore!  Smile

Quoting HellKelpie (Reply 19):
The first thing they'll need is a decent sized airport

...it will happen very very soon!!!

A389
 
A342
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:42 am

Also, for a single airline, 2 hubs which are so close to each other don't make sense.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 21):
Also, for a single airline, 2 hubs which are so close to each other don't make sense.

Doesn't make a whole lot more sense for two separate airlines either.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
A342
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
Doesn't make a whole lot more sense for two separate airlines either.

Judging by the growth of the airlines, it does make sense.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 23):
Judging by the growth of the airlines, it does make sense.

I don't think that's a sign of anything other than the fact that they are all competing with each other, and many other airlines, for the same traffic flying through their respective hubs, and not to/from AUH/DXB/SHJ/MCT/etc..
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AirNZ
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting Antonovman (Reply 3):
i think its a bit like having air england, air scotland and air wales

Did you 'forget' an Air Northern Ireland then.....or didn't you realise you're four countries?
Flown:F27/TU134/Viscount/Trident/BAC111/727/737/747/757/767/777/300/310/320/321/330/340/DC9/DC10/Dash8/Shorts330/BAe146
 
ronerone
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:42 pm

Quoting HellKelpie (Reply 18):
Flying AUH-DXB? There is one leg of a GF that does it, but if the road journey takes 90 minutes, and flying - with ticketing, checking in, security and every other bloody thing - would probably take four hours for a 25 minute flight ... hey, drive it.

Now that Etihad has dominated operations at AUH, GF had eventually downsized its operations out of AUH. Both airlines continued to 'represent' AUH simultaneously for a short period, until AUH pulled out its shareholding with GF. Now that GF is left only for Bahrain, and Oman, it has changed its strategy in the UAE and hence, flights between DXB and AUH (which were only for connecting passengers from out of the country .. no revenue O&D flights are allowed to fly between the two cities) have stopped.

GF has downsized and is currently implementing a new strategy in the UAE. So if you want to fly GF from the UAE to lets say, LHR, you will most probably go through Bahrain or Muscat, whereas in the past they had 'direct' or non-stop flights from AUH.

As it is known that EK's success, whether its subsidized by the government of Dubai or not (that is a different topic altogether) is benefitting from Dubai's booming growth. As long as Dubai continues to grow, EK will complement it.

As for Abu Dhabi, the government has plans to develop the city and make it into a tourist destination just like Dubai. Hence, one (out of many) reasons for EY. Etihad, which i believe is subsidized by the government (just an opinion here), is however doing quite well regardless, from what i hear.

In its simplest terms, Abu Dhabi is basically following what Dubai has been doing, but carefully and slowly, and learning from Dubai's 'mistakes'.

Just my two cents.

Roni
Fly Roni. Aviation Journeys. Photos. Videos.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 3:25 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):

Doesn't make a whole lot more sense for two separate airlines either.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
I don't think that's a sign of anything other than the fact that they are all competing with each other, and many other airlines, for the same traffic flying through their respective hubs, and not to/from AUH/DXB/SHJ/MCT/etc..

Competition does make sense - or do you prefer monopolies? Would you also try to convince AA and UA to give up their respective hubs at ORD?
And as I said earlier - O&D traffic is growing massively at both AUH and DXB. Have you been to the country lately?


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
speedbird128
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:15 pm

Quoting HellKelpie (Reply 18):
Flying AUH-DXB? There is one leg of a GF that does it

No sir, they have ceased quite a while back.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
Emirate penis envy

Exactly. Just look at their fleets - every aircraft EK has, or has on order has been copied (albeit in a tinier amount) by EY.
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
tayaramecanici
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:50 pm

Quoting Ronerone (Reply 24):
As it is known that EK's success, whether its subsidized by the government of Dubai or not (that is a different topic altogether) is benefitting from Dubai's booming growth. As long as Dubai continues to grow, EK will complement it.

Its the other way round, the relation between EK and dubai is that of the heart and body. Its been mentioned here many times before that one of the reasons for starting EK was the fewer flights operated to DXB by GF, as compared to AUH or Bahrain. Before EK was started, Bahrain was the most favoured destination for the Brit and Aussie tourists in the 80s.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 15):
O&D traffic is growing massively at Abu Dhabi and Dubai, one shouldn't forget to mention...

However capacity is outstriping traffic by a factor of x3, adding 1 a/c monthly, you need 40% O&D traffic to sustain a hub, this was achieved by DXB thru high fares from the labour markets of India and Pak, while discounting the European travellers. Now with pvt airlines mushrooming in these countries, their effects are evident. In the case of Pak, EK hasn't increased capacity greatly as the Pak pvt airlines fly to DXB. Whereas India is concerned not before long the pvt airlines (restricted to dom) from there are going to swamp the whole of UAE i.e.Sharjah, RAK, Al-Ain apart from DXB and AUH, but for now, the booming aviation market in India has soaked up all skilled personnel mainly engineers, the main source of skilled staff for these airlines. EK and GAMCO (EY-Engg) are unsuccessfully trying to attract staff from the European countries. GAMCO has lost maint contracts as a result and EK is now paying premium rates to lure temp staff.
IMO EK has tried to bite off something more than they can chew and the latest deal to buyout SRT alongwith AUH could be an early indication of a merger between EK & EY.

In the famous words of Bob Crandall '' You are as good as your nearest competitor''
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi

Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:25 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
Every Royal Family of every seperate Emirate has it's own Ego to worry about these days, hence why Abu Dhabi chose not to be a co-owner of Gulf Air anymore and instead go at it alone with Etihad.

yah..that's why they are filling planes left and right..and recording profits over loses (especially with EK, which has recored profits for 20 straight years)..even with the fact they have to pay the increase in oil like every other carrier...to top it off, carriers such as EK, GF, EY also have non-emirati CEO's....EK got to where it got not because of the Sheikh, but rather because of the CEO who was able to make some incredible deals with other countries during the 1980's..learn the facts first.... sarcastic 

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 27):
However capacity is outstriping traffic by a factor of x3, adding 1 a/c monthly

however, there is a chance that EK will also be involved in the "leasing" business of planes.......

not to mention, in a few years, some of their earlier planes will need to be retired/leased/sold off....so not all the plances coming in will be for expansion..
"Up the Irons!"
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 27):
However capacity is outstriping traffic by a factor of x3, adding 1 a/c monthly, you need 40% O&D traffic to sustain a hub, this was achieved by DXB thru high fares from the labour markets of India and Pak, while discounting the European travellers.

As others have already pointed out, EK will also replace lots of aircraft with new deliveries. And by checking EK's network it gets clear that India or Pakistan are not the key markets for success.

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 27):
IMO EK has tried to bite off something more than they can chew and the latest deal to buyout SRT alongwith AUH could be an early indication of a merger between EK & EY.

The idea of a merger between EK and EY is absurd. Ever checked the new airport projects at both AUH and DXB?


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 25):
Would you also try to convince AA and UA to give up their respective hubs at ORD?

They aren't growing at astronomical rates or ordering dozens of new planes.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 25):
O&D traffic is growing massively at both AUH and DXB. Have you been to the country lately?

From a tiny base....does anyone know the loca/connectin mix for either EK, QR, or EY?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ronerone
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:35 pm

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 27):
Its the other way round, the relation between EK and dubai is that of the heart and body. Its been mentioned here many times before that one of the reasons for starting EK was the fewer flights operated to DXB by GF, as compared to AUH or Bahrain. Before EK was started, Bahrain was the most favoured destination for the Brit and Aussie tourists in the 80s.

That is absolutely correct. In fact, in the beginning when EK first started, Gulf states like Bahrain were being very anti-competitive and for a while EK was not granted any rights to fly to several Gulf countries. I am not sure exactly which ones.

But still, what i was saying is that one reason for EK's existence is part of that plan to develop Dubai since just as you mentioned, DXB had fewer flights and hence, needed its own airline.

Roni
Fly Roni. Aviation Journeys. Photos. Videos.
 
tayaramecanici
Posts: 241
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:26 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 29):
As others have already pointed out, EK will also replace lots of aircraft with new deliveries. And by checking EK's network it gets clear that India or Pakistan are not the key markets for success.

Are we saying EK is replacing its A330 /B777 with B772LR/A345/A380 ? Considering most airlines like SQ are looking at introducing A330 as a interim lift i doubt if EK is offloading these depreciated assets for competition to pick up.
India and Pak are core to their network, Pak supports the 2nd BHX & GLA flts. India is the greatest oppurtunity and threat for EK. Have a closer look at EKs network, USA directs are not meant for aussies and EU. Additionally the management control of AirLanka by EK was purely with the intention of cornering the East bound Indian traffic (a smart move ). India contributes 10% to BAs revenue (2nd only to USA), i hope that gives an idea........

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
From a tiny base....does anyone know the
loca/connectin mix for either EK, QR, or EY?

Very true, and this tiny base is highly sensitive/volatile to any ME skirmish!!!

Quoting Ronerone (Reply 31):
But still, what i was saying is that one reason for EK's existence is part of that plan to develop Dubai since just as you mentioned, DXB had fewer flights and hence, needed its own airline.

Exactly, it makes sense to survive rather than perish fighting a fare war with the defacto richest family in the world. Yes, the Al Nahyan ruling family of AUH has a collective wealth, greater than the saudi Saud family. The Makhtoums never thought oil would stay at such highs inflating the Al Nahyan pockets (3m barrels/day, do the math).

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 29):
The idea of a merger between EK and EY is absurd. Ever checked the new airport projects at both AUH and DXB?

Been there seen it (april'06).The jebel ali airpot is closer to AUH, and as far as AUH airport is concerned they are adding a runway and realigning their terminals at the same location. The dist between the two JA-DXB and AUH is not more than 20-25m, lets see how far JAli progresses, infact DXB has not completed the 2nd concorse at the Deira airport.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
 
icarus75
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:31 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
Roughly 75 miles airport-to-airport on a 4-line devided freeway, not really a long drive.

Right for the distance and the road but wrong for the drive!  Wink
Depending of the time of the day, going out of Dubai or entering Dubaï is a real nightmare!!!!
Flying is amazing!
 
tayaramecanici
Posts: 241
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:38 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 29):
And by checking EK's network it gets clear that India not the key markets for success.

To further substantiate my point in reply:32, check this news.

Emirates open to picking up stake in airline in India

http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/ne...india/market/stocks/article/239355
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
They aren't growing at astronomical rates or ordering dozens of new planes.

EY's orders aren't astronomical and EK will replace A332, A343 and B772 in the not very distant future.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 30):
From a tiny base....

Which base is tiny?

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 32):
Are we saying EK is replacing its A330 /B777 with B772LR/A345/A380 ?

Yes, EK has been replacing the A332 with B772s and B772s/A343s with B77Ws and it goes on.

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 32):
Considering most airlines like SQ are looking at introducing A330 as a interim lift i doubt if EK is offloading these depreciated assets for competition to pick up.
India and Pak are core to their network, Pak supports the 2nd BHX & GLA flts. India is the greatest oppurtunity and threat for EK.

European, African and East Asian operations have been massively increased over the past years with capacity and frequencies while Indian operations haven't changed significantly. EK's growth is not dependant from India.

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 32):
Have a closer look at EKs network, USA directs are not meant for aussies and EU.

There are still many other markets apart from India.

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 32):
Very true, and this tiny base is highly sensitive/volatile to any ME skirmish!!!

EK didn't face any problems even during the 2003 war in Iraq.

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 32):
The jebel ali airpot is closer to AUH

Source?

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 34):
Emirates open to picking up stake in airline in India

Why not? That doesn't contract anything I said earlier.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
A342
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 35):
EY's orders aren't astronomical and EK will replace A332, A343 and B772 in the not very distant future.

You mean EK, don't you ?

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 35):
Yes, EK has been replacing the A332 with B772s and B772s/A343s with B77Ws and it goes on.

No A332 has been replaced yet. In fact, most of EK's aircraft, if not all, are younger than 10 years. As Tim Clark has said, there is no real hurry to replace them. But of course, a big order isn't far away.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 36):
No A332 has been replaced yet. In fact, most of EK's aircraft, if not all, are younger than 10 years. As Tim Clark has said, there is no real hurry to replace them. But of course, a big order isn't far away.

I know well that no A332 has left the fleet yet - what I'm talking about is routes. There has been a clear trend of replacing the A332 and A343 with larger aircraft, while A332s have been used to increase frequencies or start new routes. Though, when the A332s leave the fleet, larger aircraft will take their place.


PH
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tayaramecanici
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 35):
Source?

The map of UAE.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 35):
Why not? That doesn't contract anything I said earlier.

It does contradict everything you said with respect to the relation between India and EK. Read the article, you'll find the statement of EKs India manager. If still not satified get hold of the OCT'04(IF i remember correctly) issue of Airline Business and read the interview with Sheikh Ahmed and Maurice Flanagan, they are honest about the importance of India to EKs network. In fact they mention how important India is to DXB, leave aside EK.
''You are as good as your nearest competitor'' Bob Crandall.
 
A342
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 37):
I know well that no A332 has left the fleet yet - what I'm talking about is routes.

Ah, I see. That's true, of course.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
a389
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 32):
The jebel ali airport is closer to AUH, and as far as AUH airport is concerned they are adding a runway and realigning their terminals at the same location. The dist between the two JA-DXB and AUH is not more than 20-25m

JXB is in fact closer to AUH.. but 20-25 m?... maybe if there were not so many speed cameras.. and the annoying beep above 120km/h  Smile .....realistically it may be twice that time!

As to AUH... realigning their terminals at the same location??? I'd rather say an all new mid field terminal!

EK and EY together?... it's a bit difficult to see it happen in the near future as EY is still trying to get their own space in the market and joining a giant as EK would be seen as a failure at the time... (and here not all is strictly business oriented! Smile )

A389
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi

Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 38):

The map of UAE.

Which clearly shows Jebel Ali being much closer to Dubai than to Abu Dhabi...

Quoting Tayaramecanici (Reply 38):
It does contradict everything you said with respect to the relation between India and EK. Read the article, you'll find the statement of EKs India manager. If still not satified get hold of the OCT'04(IF i remember correctly) issue of Airline Business and read the interview with Sheikh Ahmed and Maurice Flanagan, they are honest about the importance of India to EKs network. In fact they mention how important India is to DXB, leave aside EK.

No. I said India is not the key to EK's overall success - I didn't say India is not important. But other markets are important as well. EK wouldn't be hit massively by losing market share in India.


PH

[Edited 2006-09-10 22:37:40]
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MaverickM11
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 35):
EY's orders aren't astronomical and EK will replace A332, A343 and B772 in the not very distant future.

When an airline's orderbook is equal or greater in number to its current fleet, that is astromical growth.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 35):
Which base is tiny?

The number of local passengers in the not too distant past....
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:17 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 42):
When an airline's orderbook is equal or greater in number to its current fleet, that is astromical growth.

Which is not necessarily negative.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 42):
The number of local passengers in the not too distant past....

Please elaborate.


PH
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speedbird128
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:21 pm

Quoting A389 (Reply 40):
As to AUH... realigning their terminals at the same location??? I'd rather say an all new mid field terminal!

As far as I am aware there will be an interim terminal for Etihad at the new Echo Apron, which will be connected to the current terminal...
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
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yowza
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:28 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 10):
Basically, Abu Dhabi and Dubai are competing for tourists, and having international airlines will help them promote their respective cities. Plus, Abu Dhabi and Dubai are both metropolitan cities and they need direct flights to major cities.

I noticed something odd at the Eaton Centre (mall) in downtown Toronto. There is a chance to win a $25,000 shooping spree at a mall in Dubai and the contest was sponsosred by Etihad. I guess the braintrust et EY realize Dubai has a lot more to offer tourists. That said I personally prefer Abu Dhabi.

YOWza
 
dz09
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:51 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 45):
I noticed something odd at the Eaton Centre (mall) in downtown Toronto. There is a chance to win a $25,000 shooping spree at a mall in Dubai and the contest was sponsosred by Etihad. I guess the braintrust et EY realize Dubai has a lot more to offer tourists. That said I personally prefer Abu Dhabi.

YOWza

I prefer Abu Dhabi too, but both city are great. Dubai is more like New York City and Abu Dhabi like washington DC. I do not mind having a choice between 2 great airlines to go to the UAE. Actually there is room for another one to El ain for example. The UAE is simply an amazing country. and I only hope that more arab countries followed their example.

Cheers.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 43):
Which is not necessarily negative.

...or realistic or sustainable....

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 43):
Please elaborate.

How many passengers per day were traveling to the UAE ten years ago? Twenty years ago? Thirty years ago? The market for local traffic to the UAE has been growing quickly but from just about nil just a couple decades ago, and it is still dwarfed by the connecting traffic that flows through the UAE.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:29 am

Ah, shut up! You lot moan more than spoilt children. Please, mummy, may I have some sweets? PLEASE?!

I like DXB. Flew through there on MAA-DXB-LHR earlier this year.

I'll be flying via AUH in November... can't wait.

Talking about AUH... I'll be on EY304 on 11th Nov. It was meant to be operated by the 345, but it now appears on Amadeus as EQV, because the 345 is, I believe, meant to be deployed on non-LON routes, e.g. to SYD and NYC. Let's hope I don't have the 773, as I'm due to have that on 3 flights already: AUH-BKK-AUH-LHR.

#304 is due to arrive into AUH at 0730. As it'll be mid-Nov, will it be light enough to see the desert? Or, if approaching over the sea, the sea?

[Edited 2006-09-11 18:40:23]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Why A Different Airlines For Dubai & Abu Dhabi?

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47):
...or realistic or sustainable....

Until today all of EK's plans have been very realistic, considering the development of the airline. The heads of the airline seem to know what they're doing.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47):
How many passengers per day were traveling to the UAE ten years ago? Twenty years ago? Thirty years ago?

What's the point? We all know how Dubai has changed over the last three decades.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 47):
The market for local traffic to the UAE has been growing quickly but from just about nil just a couple decades ago, and it is still dwarfed by the connecting traffic that flows through the UAE.

And?


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!

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