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1337Delta764
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Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:22 am

I have been wondering the possiblity of Delta ordering the 737-700. Delta has retired their 737-200 and 737-300 fleets. Some of the markets served by those aircraft have been downgraded to RJs, while some (such as Delta Shuttle) have been upgraded to MD-88s. However, there is a huge gap in capacity between the CRJ-700 and the MD-88. Perhaps the 737-700 would be a good addition to the fleet to some smaller destinations that can support mainline service. I personally think the 737-700 would be the ideal aircraft for ATL-BQN/PSE. If Delta does order the 737-700, I hope they install IFE (although PTVs are unlikely).
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Cadet57
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
If Delta does order the 737-700, I hope they install IFE (although PTVs are unlikely).

Honestly, Is this all you care about? PTV's on DL? Dam dude.... give it a break...
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:34 am

Rumor has it that DL came very close to ordering the 73G in the past as a 732 replacement during the Delta Express days......the Delta Express product was dropped and the 73G order never happened.

Personally, I dont see Delta going with the 73G......my bet is that all future 737NG orders will be for the larger 738. The MD88s are not going anywhere in the medium term future and that type can handle routes with slightly less demand and with shorter range. There is a gap between the largest regional/small jets and the MD88, but it can be managed by frequency adjustments. DL's priority will be investing in its longhaul fleet, and 130 seat airplanes will not be a priority in the coming years. DL itself has said that the 737 Classic fleet would not be directly replaced, better utilization of its current fleet, regional jets and the adjsutment of some routes would allow the older airplanes to be retired.

As for routes like ATL-BQN/PSE........my guess is that they will quickly go to 738 service as soon as DL is convinced that there is adequate demand to operate into these cities. There is little doubt that DL can make these flights work out of the powerful ATL superhub....the CRJs are a mistake here in my opinion, the VFR traffic on routes into Puerto Rico does NOT travel light, and baggage will become a headache with the regional jets.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
If Delta does order the 737-700, I hope they install IFE (although PTVs are unlikely).

I know that you love your PTV.......my guess is that if DL would order the 73G (and as I said above, i dont think that they will) they would be equipped with IFE similiar to Song type being installed on the 757s and 738s.
 
okie73
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:30 am

I think they will get some. Keep in mind, its not a question of ordering them. The 737NG orders are all convertible from one model to the other. Delta could easily convert some 800 orders to 700s. It would be an easy addition. Same maintenance, same pilots, FAs already trained, etc.
 
DL787932ER
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
If Delta does order the 737-700, I hope they install IFE (although PTVs are unlikely).

Whether or not DL converts some orders to 73G, I do not think you will ever again see them take delivery of a new mainline aircraft that is not equipped with PTVs in all cabins. Keep in mind that the Panasonic "Song" system is slated to be fit to 738s already, and even E190s/195s (which I see as a more likely option for DL than 73G) have been equipped by B6 with such.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
B4REAL
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:33 pm

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 4):
and even E190s/195s (which I see as a more likely option for DL than 73G)

 checkmark 

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
However, there is a huge gap in capacity between the CRJ-700 and the MD-88. Perhaps the 737-700 would be a good addition to the fleet to some smaller destinations that can support mainline service.

DL's immediate strategy for this is the E170 DCI aircraft operations to fill this gap. You have superior cabin comfort for a regional operation and a two-class configuration - which will shut up the medallion members about losing mainline to their market.

This is evident by the Freedom Airlines routes being moved to ATL based operations in cities that have lost mainline routes but have the demand for more seats or the premium cabin.
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mauriceb
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:38 pm

Its unlikely we will see a big DL order for the 737G, since the MD's still doing fine , and if they plan to replace them it would probably mean a timelin of at least 7-9 years before the whole order is finised (time frame from first order till last delivery), which makes it more attractive for Delta to take a look at the eyed 737 replacement which will probably be presented in the upcomming years.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
Rumor has it that DL came very close to ordering the 73G in the past as a 732 replacement during the Delta Express days......the Delta Express product was dropped and the 73G order never happened.

An order for 45 73Gs, through conversion of the 300+ options DL still had. But the order didn't materialize not because DLX was stopped. Some magazines broke news that DL was close to finalising that order in July 2001, and that only a few finaly touches would have to be worked out before the order would be finalised, but we all know what happened in September that year.
And personally, I don't see DL order the 73G. They will take delivery of their 738s they have on order, and will probably try to secure funding to become one of the launch customers for Y1.
 
bucky707
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:02 am

I think you will see Delta order a small number of -700s. From what I have been told, there are some routes that we would like to fly, but a 757 is too big, and the -800 doesn't have the range. MCO to the west coast is one I hear mentioned a lot.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:23 am

MCO to the west coast at least LAX and SFO is shorter than BOS-SFO which is flown with a 738 by several carriers.

Quoting B4real (Reply 5):
This is evident by the Freedom Airlines routes being moved to ATL based operations in cities that have lost mainline routes but have the demand for more seats or the premium cabin.

The E170s are being moved to ATL because they are a more competitive aircraft while the CR9s will be used in less competitive markets and to the smaller northern tier hubs. DL simply has to have cabin class aircraft competing against FL from ATL and Bombardier's RJs don't cut it.

DL will not order a small number of any fleet. It makes no sense for DL to create another small subfleet.

Welcome back to a DL thread, Dutchjet!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:50 pm

With respect to the comment above on frequencies, keep in mind that now that ATL is depeaked, frequencies can change more than they once could. While most decent sized markets will have a late morning or early afternoon flight for Europe and an evening flight for South America, beyond that there's a ton of flexibility.
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rwsea
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:51 pm

I think the 73G would serve DL well, despite the less-than-ideal operating economics. They could certainly use 20-30 of them, and not necessarily to replace the 732/733, but to right-size some of the Caribbean markets where the 738 is a bit too big, and also to open up some new markets from JFK (such as PDX, SJC, SMF, PHX, etc.) where the 757 or 738 might be too big.
 
positiverate
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 11):
I think the 73G would serve DL well, despite the less-than-ideal operating economics.

The economics are less than ideal? Air Tran and Southwest seem to have made them work...
 
bucky707
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
DL will not order a small number of any fleet. It makes no sense for DL to create another small subfleet.

How would you consider the -700 to be a subfleet? The only difference between a 700 and an 800 is the length of the airplane. Nothing else. The 700, if ordered, would simply be part of the Delta 737NG fleet.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 13):
How would you consider the -700 to be a subfleet? The only difference between a 700 and an 800 is the length of the airplane. Nothing else. The 700, if ordered, would simply be part of the Delta 737NG fleet.

They would be a subfleet to the number of seats. Now, (once all 738-shuttle to mainline conversions are complete - which I think they are) any 737 aircraft can be subbed for any other 737 without re-accomodating pax due to less seats, varied cabin classes, or seat changes.

That would not be the same with a 737-700 if it were introduced.
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bucky707
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting B4real (Reply 14):
They would be a subfleet to the number of seats. Now, (once all 738-shuttle to mainline conversions are complete - which I think they are) any 737 aircraft can be subbed for any other 737 without re-accomodating pax due to less seats, varied cabin classes, or seat changes.

to a certain extent, I agree. But, subsitutions happen. 88s get subbed for -800s all the time, and vice versa. At least if you sub a 700 for an 800 you can use the same crew.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting B4real (Reply 14):
They would be a subfleet to the number of seats. Now, (once all 738-shuttle to mainline conversions are complete - which I think they are) any 737 aircraft can be subbed for any other 737 without re-accomodating pax due to less seats, varied cabin classes, or seat changes.

That would not be the same with a 737-700 if it were introduced.

A/C subs happen all the time (ex. -88s for 738s). Those require a change in seating as well (14F vs. 16F, changes in Y as well).

At least subbing a 738 with a 73G gets you the same crew...
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dutchjet
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 15):

to a certain extent, I agree. But, subsitutions happen. 88s get subbed for -800s all the time, and vice versa. At least if you sub a 700 for an 800 you can use the same crew.



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 16):

A/C subs happen all the time (ex. -88s for 738s). Those require a change in seating as well (14F vs. 16F, changes in Y as well).

At least subbing a 738 with a 73G gets you the same crew...

I guess that I am missing your points......you really dont think that DL, at this point, would order hundreds of 73Gs to replace their entire MD88/MD90 fleet?

As for subsitutions, they will happen from time to time, and the ground crews will deal with it.
 
bucky707
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 17):
you really dont think that DL, at this point, would order hundreds of 73Gs to replace their entire MD88/MD90 fleet?

no, I don't. But I don't think its that big a stretch to think that Delta might convert some of the 737-800 options to -700s. I agree with previous posters who have said at this point Delta will wait for the 737RS to replace the narrowbody fleet. Any new 800s or 700s (same with any used 88s they get) would simply be interim aircraft until Delta can get the narrowbody fleet for the future.

[Edited 2006-09-10 17:30:01]
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:18 am

I never stated that Delta should order the 737-700 as an MD-88/90 replacement, but as a 737-200/300 replacement.
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Alitalia744
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:01 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 17):
I guess that I am missing your points......you really dont think that DL, at this point, would order hundreds of 73Gs to replace their entire MD88/MD90 fleet?

As for subsitutions, they will happen from time to time, and the ground crews will deal with it.

DutchJet see below response:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 18):
no, I don't. But I don't think its that big a stretch to think that Delta might convert some of the 737-800 options to -700s. I agree with previous posters who have said at this point Delta will wait for the 737RS to replace the narrowbody fleet. Any new 800s or 700s (same with any used 88s they get) would simply be interim aircraft until Delta can get the narrowbody fleet for the future.

Exactly - DL may convert some 738s to 73Gs as interim aircraft and to help fill the gap between the E170s/CR9s and the MD82, it's a large gap between 70-seaters and the 142 seats on the -88s.

There is no broad scale -88 replacement plan right now, nor do any of us think the -88s will be retired quickly.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:13 am

AS has determined that the 738 has very similar operating costs to the 73G, but offers them more revenue potential, so AS is going forward purely with the 738.

DL might have come to a similar conclusion, and therefore may forgo the 73G in favor of continuing with the 738.
 
panam330
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 8):
MCO to the west coast is one I hear mentioned a lot.

MCO to the west is currently being flown with 757s (LAX, LAS). DL operated MCO-SFO with Song, IIRC, but that was obviously dropped.
 
rwsea
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 12):
The economics are less than ideal? Air Tran and Southwest seem to have made them work...

True, but CO and AS, for example, prefer the 738 because they cost about the same to fly, but can carry more passengers.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 23):
Quoting Positiverate (Reply 12):
The economics are less than ideal? Air Tran and Southwest seem to have made them work...

True, but CO and AS, for example, prefer the 738 because they cost about the same to fly, but can carry more passengers.

Interesting issue.......I do know that CO certainly prefers the larger 738 variant. Maybe its a one-class LCC carrier vs. two-class legacy carrier thing? The 73G works for Southwest (for example) due to the number of seats and crew required.....for CO (for example) the number of seats are reduced due to the F class compartment and therefore economics are not as good as the airline hoped. Regarding Delta, a strong case can be made to stick with the 738......on the longer segments to which the 738 is assigned, DL should not have a big problem filling up the extra seats offered by the 738 and thereby increasing revenue.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 24):
Maybe its a one-class LCC carrier vs. two-class legacy carrier thing?

It might very well be. AS' 73G has 112 Y seats while their 738 has 144. WN's 73G's have 137 seats. So the 738 gives them similar Y seating, plus 16 F seats (vs. 12 on the 73G).
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 19):
I never stated that Delta should order the 737-700 as an MD-88/90 replacement, but as a 737-200/300 replacement.

Considering that both 737 Classics are now gone, and obviously DL can live without a direct replacement already, the question is made redundant.
 
rwsea
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 24):
Interesting issue.......I do know that CO certainly prefers the larger 738 variant. Maybe its a one-class LCC carrier vs. two-class legacy carrier thing? The 73G works for Southwest (for example) due to the number of seats and crew required.....for CO (for example) the number of seats are reduced due to the F class compartment and therefore economics are not as good as the airline hoped. Regarding Delta, a strong case can be made to stick with the 738......on the longer segments to which the 738 is assigned, DL should not have a big problem filling up the extra seats offered by the 738 and thereby increasing revenue.

DL could even put more seats on the 738's if they really wanted to. However, they keep them at only 150 pax so that they don't have to staff an extra FA. This is one of the arguments usually used for WN and FL not going any bigger than the 73G - it allows them to use only 3 FA's and anything bigger like a 738 would require 4.
 
A342
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:16 am

Well, they stated they're looking for additional MD-88s, right ? Maybe they can get some MD-87s instead. But the economics of that aircraft don't seem to be very pleasing.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
positiverate
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 23):
True, but CO and AS, for example, prefer the 738 because they cost about the same to fly, but can carry more passengers.

They must not be all bad. CO has 30+ -700's, and AS has 20+ -700's...

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 24):
Maybe its a one-class LCC carrier vs. two-class legacy carrier thing? The 73G works for Southwest (for example) due to the number of seats and crew required.....for CO (for example) the number of seats are reduced due to the F class compartment and therefore economics are not as good as the airline hoped.

AirTran has made the airplane work with a 2 class configuration (12/125)
 
dutchjet
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RE: Could Delta Order The 737-700?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 29):
They must not be all bad. CO has 30+ -700's, and AS has 20+ -700's...

And CO has stated that it will not take any further 73Gs and new 737NG deliveries will be the 738 variant plus the recently ordered 739ER variant. Its also known that CO finds the 73G small for most the longer routes that the type operates and would be interested in "exchanging" 73Gs for 738s/739ERs if such a deal was possible. About a year or so ago, there were rumors that CO would swap a good number of their 73Gs for the remaining 4 ATA 753s and possibily some ATA 738s....the deal never happened but its a clue that CO would be interested in dumping all or part of their 73G fleet.

As for AS, after building a 73G and 739 fleet, they too will now be focusing on the 738 which seems to be the best compromise between seats/range/costs for most two-class airlines.

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