AR385
Topic Author
Posts: 6735
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:13 pm

Reading the post about the Doha bound plane which rejected its take-off and about many seatbelt related injuries on more serious situations, I wonder why aircraft seats, don't come equipped with a three point seatbelt, like the one in cars? Is it to expensive? Passengers won't like it? It doesn't make a difference?

Rather than having to seat on an arliner facing backwards (which I know it is the safer way) I'd wear a three point seatbelt. I'm too young to loose my spleen or break my hip.
 
agill
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:49 am

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:52 pm

Maybe if Volvo start to make airliners.
 
ehho
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:26 am

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting Agill (Reply 1):
Maybe if Volvo start to make airliners.

Face it, you guys had a go once with Svenska Aeroplan AB, and it didn't last. Hell, even the cars Saab makes are basically gentrified Chevies nowadays. Let Volvo stick to making very, very good cars, and leave airliners to others.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
airbusA346
Posts: 7284
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:05 am

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 9:39 pm

Im surprised we don't have to wear 5 point harness yet.

Tom.
Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:04 pm

Three-point seatbelts are recommended by numerous safety authorities to protect passengers, but there are no laws mandating them on Part 125 aircraft for passengers. Barriers to having this type of seat belt include:

1) Cost/Benefit analysis -- serious aviation accidents are rare, and it can be hard to determine if a 3-point seat belt will make a significant difference (the same applies to seat-belt air bags)

2) Passenger perception of comfort -- particularly on long-haul flights and those who are trying to sleep may find the design restrictive

3) Need to redesign seat to incorperate the seat-belt mechanism, as well as needing to increase the strength of the seat to absorb the loads the seat will now need to take

4) 3-point seat belts may not allow for adjustment for a wide range of heights...certain children, for instance, may require a booster seat to use the 3-point seat belt when a lap belt would have been fine for them.

The UK AAIB after the Manchester Air Disaster recommended the investigation of rear-facing seats and 3-point seat-belts as they are believed to be more protective. But the only aircraft you will see it for passengers is corporate aircraft...which is an interesting commentary if you ask me.

The sad fact is that a lap-belt is a poor compromise for safety, even when combined with the brace position (far too few passengers know how to adopt the proper brace position in a split-second anyway).

[Edited 2006-09-09 15:29:33]
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:11 pm

Three-point belts aren't the only thing the safety boards have been calling for over the last few decades: adding independent power supplies to DFDRs/CVRs, video recording on the flightdeck, dual and backup DFDRs, the use of standard ICAO phraseology universally, especially in the US and particularly to stop runway incursions, the creation of supercooled liquid droplets certification regulations, fuel tank inerting certification regulations, restraint systems for young children and addressing the serious problem of fatigue have been recommended time after time by safety boards all over the world, and the FAA and EASA have ignored each and every one of them.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Dtw757
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:05 am

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:38 pm

It would be nice to see something like this which we may soon see in some Ford models.

Taken from www.blueovalnews.com
Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

I think this would make a nice seatbelt on any type of vehicle.
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 6):
It would be nice to see something like this which we may soon see in some Ford models.

which is pretty close to what all aircraft crew wear even now...
But as said, too restrictive for passenger comfort, and excludes very tall and very short people from flying (which is one reason why airlines unlike most other companies are allowed to discriminate based on size in the hiring process for new employees).
I wish I were flying
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting EHHO (Reply 2):
Hell, even the cars Saab makes are basically gentrified Chevies nowadays. Let Volvo stick to making very, very good cars,
Pretty irelevent point really... especially considering several Volvo models are as you say "gentrified" Mazdas and in the recent past have been "gentrified" Mitsubishis

[Edited 2006-09-09 16:38:41]
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
b52murph
Posts: 223
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting Agill (Reply 1):
Maybe if Volvo start to make airliners.

LOL...I love the idea. Us old-school Volvo fans would love to see airliners with numbers similar to their old auto numbers (744, 745, 854, 855). They could follow on with Boeing's numerical theme; an 804 could be their first jetliner model, with an 805 being the cargo varient.

b52murph
`96 855 (850 Wagon) Turbo  Smile
 
User avatar
Aloha717200
Posts: 3738
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:50 am

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:58 pm

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 6):
It would be nice to see something like this which we may soon see in some Ford models.

What...the belt...or the girl? Big grin
 
AR385
Topic Author
Posts: 6735
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 4):
2) Passenger perception of comfort -- particularly on long-haul flights and those who are trying to sleep may find the design restrictive

True. But you could design them so they can function like the common seatbelt for most of the cruise, then use the third point only for TO and Landings or when in bad turbulence. Just an idea.
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 11):
But you could design them so they can function like the common seatbelt for most of the cruise, then use the third point only for TO and Landings or when in bad turbulence. Just an idea.

I like that idea...I don't doubt that it could be designed. But the 3-point belts board bizjets have the warning on the safety card, "Shoulder Harness MUST be used at any seat that is so equipped" since the shoulder harness is added onto the standard lap belt.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
rolfen
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:03 am

RE: Three Point Seatbelt, When?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 6):
It would be nice to see something like this which we may soon see in some Ford models.

You mean the woman?  eyebrow 
yeeeah!
rolf