Reggaebird
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Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:35 am

With Qatar Airways having embarassed Boeing during the Farnborough Airshow, what kind of relationship, if any, should the companies have in the future? By signing an order and agreeing to a press release about the 777s and then withdrawing said approval after the release came out, QR made Boeing look stupid at one of the most prominent airshows in the world.

of course, some people (including me) believe that this was a political slap-in-the-face to the USA from the government of Qatar for America's support of Israel during the recent "skirmish" with Hezbollah. Nonetheless, should Boeing trust this carrier's word in the future? I am not so sure.

Reggaebird
 
M27
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting Reggaebird (Thread starter):
QR made Boeing look stupid at one of the most prominent airshows in the world.

I tend to think its the other way around!
 
JAL
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:56 am

In any case, what's up with the order? Is it still on?
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Reggaebird (Thread starter):
With Qatar Airways having embarassed Boeing during the Farnborough Airshow, what kind of relationship, if any, should the companies have in the future?

As long as QR wants to buy planes at a price Boeing accepts selling them for, I imagine it will be "business as usual".

Quoting Reggaebird (Thread starter):
QR made Boeing look stupid at one of the most prominent airshows in the world.

What does Boeing care as long as QR takes the planes?

Quoting JAL (Reply 2):
In any case, what's up with the order? Is it still on?

Yes, as Boeing still shows them as UFO's on their sales charts so QR has not rejected their sales order and is therefore still committed to taking them at this time.
 
ebbuk
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting M27 (Reply 1):
Quoting Reggaebird (Thread starter):
QR made Boeing look stupid at one of the most prominent airshows in the world.

I tend to think its the other way around!

How do you work that out? Boeing keen to bag an all Airbus customer with all the kudos that attracts, made QR look stupid when the airline cancelled a Press Conference after Boeing issued a Press Release confirming the sale?

What could you possibly understand the meaning of "look stupid" to be? So long as QRs business plan is shaped along political lines, B may well have to kiss the customer goodbye each time the Qatar government feels the US is doing something wrong in the region. If you want to call that stupid then you call every company in the world stupid. To a lessor or greater degree, politics in business is a reality.

I have always stated that QR's Airbus order is a vital piece of business for them. a) it balances the exposure to EK in the middle east and b) QR is also shaping up to be a key player as Mid East carriers emerge as the 21 century's mega-carriers. Qatar has the money, it has over 100 yrs supply of liquified natural gas which it will start supplying to Britain and other nations soon.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 4):

I have always stated that QR's Airbus order is a vital piece of business for them

.......and would adding Boeing planes not put them in that position?
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wingman
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:00 am

Sorry but I agree. QR came off as an amateurish and second-rate company in this instance. Based on the language provided by Boeing QR had clearly approved the press rlease in advance. Boeing is not so stupid as to issue such a sensitive statement without explicit prior approval by the customer. This perspective on QR is further supported by the inane comments made by the principal owner a few months ago relative to the A350. The context was QR's "concern" about the 350 following comments made by ILFC and GE. The Sheik had clearly been made to look like a fool and I, for one, feel that he is one...certainly when it comes to running a world-class airline. He may be the utmost professional when it comes to inheriting stupefying amounts of wealth and spending it willy nilly but QR is not EK and it never will be in my opinion.
 
ebbuk
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):

.......and would adding Boeing planes not put them in that position?

Not really. Airbus will do it just fine. Given the current woes Boeing has with this particular customer, QR's begging to be bagged

Quoting Wingman (Reply 6):
The Sheik had clearly been made to look like a fool and I, for one, feel that he is one...certainly when it comes to running a world-class airline.

Of course there are no examples of similarly outspoken airline chiefs anywhere else in the world who've "stupefying amounts of wealth" who think they know how to run a successful airline. Or they fools as well?
 
jfk777
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:29 am

Boeing still lists 20 777 for an unidentified customer. This order is the worst kept secret in the plane business. Qatar should either finalize it or order Airbus aircraft.
 
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 7):
Not really. Airbus will do it just fine. Given the current woes Boeing has with this particular customer, QR's begging to be bagged



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
Quoting EbbUK (Reply 4):

I have always stated that QR's Airbus order is a vital piece of business for them

.......and would adding Boeing planes not put them in that position?

So are you saying if QR decides to go with the 777's their business model will be in shambles..because that is what it sounds like..

Boeing doesn't need to "beg" anyone....the top carriers in the world are purchasing Boeing planes at record levels (777,737,787)..

Even the 747 has outsold the A380 the past couple of years (just had to throw that in).... Wink
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Lumberton
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:49 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
As long as QR wants to buy planes at a price Boeing accepts selling them for, I imagine it will be "business as usual".

I agree with you, Stitch. As long as there is a healthy dupoply WRT the major manufacturers, then Boeing will just have to "suck it up".

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 4):
have always stated that QR's Airbus order is a vital piece of business for them.

All the more reason for Boeing to do whatever it takes and try to "turn" QR to the 787-10 (9's in the interim)! Likely? Of course not, even though there is reputedly some "slack" in the 787 delivery scheduel for 2012. But what a coup if they could do it!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
M27
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 4):
What could you possibly understand the meaning of "look stupid" to be? So long as QRs business plan is shaped along political lines

I consider shaped along political lines "not smart in itself"! I would also consider that giving Boeing a time as to when they would release the news and failing to do so without contacting Boeing about it, is either careless or
provocative. I suspect the latter, in that if I remember correctly, the press conference was at first said to be delayed due to Al Baker being sick and they did not know when it would be rescheduled. That is were Boeing goofed up by not making sure it was done. Also we are leaving out the possibilty of Airbus actions.(see below).

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 4):
B may well have to kiss the customer goodbye each time the Qatar government feels the US is doing something wrong in the region

If Qatar airways, or the government of Qatar thinks its going to dictate US policy by aircraft orders, then I think that is stupid!

Al Baker did this once before with the 777-300ER before it was certified! Boeing thought they had sold 5 to Qatar, only to have them back-out. Thats fine, but this time they may have gone too far and it may cost them something if they don't take them(thats assuming they are the UFO airline). Airbus may take care of this though as part of the "canceled press conference".

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 10):
So, before calling someone a fool,

How about calling him someone with too big an ego and if he doesn't get his own way, he will take his toys and play somewhere else. Let Airbus play with him, but they better lick his rear or they will find themselves in the same boat.

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 4):
Boeing keen to bag an all Airbus customer with all the kudos that attracts

No doubt would be nice for Boeing, but I don't think they put as much significance to that as Airbus does.

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 4):
If you want to call that stupid then you call every company in the world stupid

No I'm just calling QR's ego stupid if they are indeed the UFO and are not being compensated by Airbus or their government. If its found out that is the case, then I would put as much trust in them as I would a rattlesnake.

As to QR's intentions regarding this not being made known to the public, you're correct. I wonder if they even know what their intentions are.
 
dallasnewark
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 10):
First of all, QR is not run by a "Sheik"
Second of all, QR's business policy reguarding this matter is still unknown to the general public and almost all assumptions are mere speculations or educated guesses. Some people have good opinons. But certain jerks, and I think you are one of them, do not have once ounce of truth. So, before calling someone a fool, look at yourself and your ignorant mind.

QR acted stupid and showed how immature they are.
What ounce of truth are you referring to? After what QR did, they are not to be trusted.

QR reneged on a handshake deal, or is it normal in the Middle East, is that how you guys do business? Just curious
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Reggaebird
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:06 pm

I think that their ascendence into the ranks of the airline industry's elite has resulted in some Middle Eastern carriers relishing their positions as "important clients" for Boeing and Airbus. Unfortunately, as demonstrated in other cultural and business sphere's in that region, this new found importance may have led to arrogance and excess. That is how I chose to describe the whole fiasco with QR's 777 order.

Reggaebird
 
aa1818
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:08 pm

To me if anyone is acting stupidly it is QR.

They announced their intention to purchase 20 777s.
They (probably) agreed and signed for them (20 UFO 777s Boeing website)
Boeing then announces that those 777s correspond to QRs intention.
QR then says oh no we never said/ did that.

Absolutely ridiculous....but to be fair Boeing has to eat nice if they want to keep this order so they'll have to accept blame/ responsibility.

AA1818
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cartoonranger
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting M27 (Reply 12):
If Qatar airways, or the government of Qatar thinks its going to dictate US policy by aircraft orders, then I think that is stupid!

Not sure that they are trying to dictate US policy. Perhaps it's more of a silent protest. If they really wanted to get at America it would be quite easy to reclaim Al Udeid airbase. That would have a lot more political ramifications than an aircraft order.
 
Leskova
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:11 pm

Quoting Reggaebird (Thread starter):
By signing an order and agreeing to a press release about the 777s and then withdrawing said approval after the release came out, QR made Boeing look stupid at one of the most prominent airshows in the world.

I love the way that almost each and every one on here completely even dismisses the possibility that this whole situation was caused by one thing: a simply error, albeit with big consequences, on the side of Boeing.

Who from our midst was among those making the deal? Who is actually qualified to speak with certainty what happened?

... thought so...

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 5):
.......and would adding Boeing planes not put them in that position?

Somehow I think you misunderstood this line:

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 4):
I have always stated that QR's Airbus order is a vital piece of business for them. a) it balances the exposure to EK in the middle east

To me, that sounds more like QR's business is important to Airbus: after all, how would adding Boeings balance out QR's exposure to EK?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
Boeing doesn't need to "beg" anyone....the top carriers in the world are purchasing Boeing planes at record levels (777,737,787)..

... well... most are... but not all...  Wink

And every new customer, especially if considered a "safe" customer for the other side, is a win.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 15):
To me if anyone is acting stupidly it is QR.

They announced their intention to purchase 20 777s.
They (probably) agreed and signed for them (20 UFO 777s Boeing website)
Boeing then announces that those 777s correspond to QRs intention.
QR then says oh no we never said/ did that.

Oh, so you were present during the negotiations?

You know for a fact that QR agreed to Boeing releasing a press release before the press conference? What possible sense could that make? Who, in their right minds, releases news of a deal before the press conference on which the news is to be announced???

To me, this looks, plain and simply, like a (as mentioned before) mistake with big consequences: everything was agreed upon, but then QR felt cheated out of the chance for making a big announcement on the planned press conference.

You do not release information about a contract to the press before the press conference unless you have written consent from the client permitting, or even better, asking you to do so!

Did Boeing have such written consent from QR, permitting - or asking - them to take the interest out of their own press conference? I doubt it...

Quoting M27 (Reply 12):
No doubt would be nice for Boeing, but I don't think they put as much significance to that as Airbus does.

I doubt Boeing or Airbus put even close to as much significance to that as people here on a.net do!
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Qatara340
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting Dallasnewark (Reply 13):
QR acted stupid and showed how immature they are.
What ounce of truth are you referring to? After what QR did, they are not to be trusted.

QR reneged on a handshake deal, or is it normal in the Middle East, is that how you guys do business? Just curious

Actually, if you think QR acted stupid, then its your opinion. I am sure you do not represent QR or boeing in any way.

As for the ounce of truth, I am refering to Wingman, who acted as a stupid jerk and started insulting people on a personal basis.

Before you (wingman) start insulting people and calling them immature names, know that these people know more of their business than you will ever do.

Quoting Cartoonranger (Reply 16):
Oh, so you were present during the negotiations?

You know for a fact that QR agreed to Boeing releasing a press release before the press conference? What possible sense could that make? Who, in their right minds, releases news of a deal before the press conference on which the news is to be announced???

To me, this looks, plain and simply, like a (as mentioned before) mistake with big consequences: everything was agreed upon, but then QR felt cheated out of the chance for making a big announcement on the planned press conference.

You do not release information about a contract to the press before the press conference unless you have written consent from the client permitting, or even better, asking you to do so!

I couldn't have said it better myself.
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aa1818
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:53 pm

[quote=Leskova,reply=16]

Look, I'm not denying that there may have been jumping of the gun on Boeing's part, but to me it seems that QR are taking it a bit too far now- for crying out loud, QR made the intent, Boeing said they firmed it, now QR is saying it never happenned!!! Admit that the order it true, let Boeing apologize for being overzealous, and lets get on with a life full of QR 777's!

Also, chill out dude, these forums host people's opinions and while you may be better informed, everyone is entitled to their own feelings, ok?

AA1818
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Aviator27
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:18 pm

Has anyone even considered the fact that QR doesn't really want B777's. It is an excellent airplanes, but it is not the greatest thing since the Constellation. IMHO, I think Boeing and QR were close to a deal for some frames and the Airbus annoucement of the XWB gave them pause. I believe that was the time frame at Farnborough.

Any how, its the Sheik's money and he can do whatever he wants with it. This includes shredding it, stuffing it in his stables, or making political statements. Remember the old addage, "money talks".
 
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yowza
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting M27 (Reply 11):

If Qatar airways, or the government of Qatar thinks its going to dictate US policy by aircraft orders, then I think that is stupid!

This was nothing to do with politics. The Lebanon-Israel skirmish has nothing to do with this. Qatar actually has a pretty good (albeit secretive) relationship with Israel. That is how they managed to be the first carrier to fly back into Beirut. Amongst the GCC states only Bahrain has better relations with Israel.

As for Qatar trying to dictate US foreign policy directly, they could easily boot the American Forces and CentCom out of Qatar if they really wanted to cause shit - but they will not do that because the current Emir is pro US. So before you start spouting off at the mouth about stuff you don't really know much about consider a bit of research  Yeah sure

As for the 777 order itself I feel that after a bit of haggling and swallowed pride it will likely go through - although I would love to see an XWB order replace it.

YOWza
 
M27
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 20):
As for Qatar trying to dictate US foreign policy directly, they could easily boot the American Forces and CentCom out of Qatar if they really wanted to cause shit - but they will not do that because the current Emir is pro US. So before you start spouting off at the mouth about stuff you don't really know much about consider a bit of research

Hey talk to you buddy that wrote the following and not me.

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 4):
What could you possibly understand the meaning of "look stupid" to be? So long as QRs business plan is shaped along political lines, B may well have to kiss the customer goodbye each time the Qatar government feels the US is doing something wrong in the region. If you want to call that stupid then you call every company in the world stupid. To a lessor or greater degree, politics in business is a reality.

So you then think its just an ego thing and not polictical? Seems you might not be the only one

Quoting Leskova (Reply 16):
I love the way that almost each and every one on here completely even dismisses the possibility that this whole situation was caused by one thing: a simply error, albeit with big consequences, on the side of Boeing.

Maybe both of you might go back and read my post-all of it.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 19):
Has anyone even considered the fact that QR doesn't really want B777's...IMHO, I think Boeing and QR were close to a deal for some frames and the Airbus announcement of the XWB gave them pause. I believe that was the time frame at Farnborough.

That doesn't make sense for one big reason - the A350-900R and A350-1000 won't be ready until 2014 or later. Even if QR feels those planes are the absolute perfect fit for them, if they didn't need long-range and high-capacity widebodies "now", they would not have ordered the 772LR and 773ER.

Now, what might be happening is that QR wants the A350s, but still needs interim lift. Airbus can offer them the A345 and A346, but they're going to need to sweeten that offer to offset the economic disadvantages of those models compared to the 777 family as well as whatever penalties are attached to cancelling the deal.

So QR may very well be trying to get ILFC or GECAS (or even Boeing) to take their 777s and lease them back to them for 8-10 years until the A350s are ready. The problem with that is the lessors will have used planes with inferior operating economics on their hands, so they probably want high rates. And Boeing has no real reason to deal since QR would be unlikely to order the 787 or Y3.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 16):
You know for a fact that QR agreed to Boeing releasing a press release before the press conference? What possible sense could that make? Who, in their right minds, releases news of a deal before the press conference on which the news is to be announced???

I like to think that both Boeing and Airbus, having been in the business for decades, don't make those kinds of mistakes. I believe Boeing had permission to make the announcement. And I'd believe the same if this had been an A345 and A346 order so I'm not trying to "apologize" just for Boeing.

It may be possible that when QR's chairman went ill and delayed the press conference, they wanted to delay it so he could be do it later and that message didn't get out or get out in time. But I don't believe Boeing intentionally jumped the gun, since the word was already out through back-channels so not like this was some big "scoop".
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:05 am

A mistake was made. But I do think the order is in jeopardy.
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ebbuk
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
So are you saying if QR decides to go with the 777's their business model will be in shambles..because that is what it sounds like..

Boeing doesn't need to "beg" anyone....the top carriers in the world are purchasing Boeing planes at record levels (777,737,787)..

Yes any airline buying the T7 outright now for future development is asking for trouble. Old tech in new era doesn't breed success. Unless they can lease them either from the manufacturer or a leasing company as a "interim lift" till the new tech aircraft arrive, they are better sticking it out with what they've got. Now it seems one manufacturer is more reluctant to carry out this type of business than the other (clue it's the one that doesn't need to "beg" anyone)

Quoting M27 (Reply 11):

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 4):
Boeing keen to bag an all Airbus customer with all the kudos that attracts

No doubt would be nice for Boeing, but I don't think they put as much significance to that as Airbus does.

Yeah you are right. Getting AC to buy Boeing was just "another bit of business". QF ordering 787 "usual business". CX buying GE T7s "nothing special". I see what you mean. And there we were thinking that winning new revenue streams was as significant to B as it is to A and vice versa. I could learn a lot from you.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 16):
Quoting EbbUK (Reply 4):
I have always stated that QR's Airbus order is a vital piece of business for them. a) it balances the exposure to EK in the middle east

To me, that sounds more like QR's business is important to Airbus: after all, how would adding Boeings balance out QR's exposure to EK?

You and I say the same thing, only that you said it more clearly than I did. Instead of "them" I should have said Airbus. Sorry



Quoting YOWza (Reply 20):

As for Qatar trying to dictate US foreign policy directly, they could easily boot the American Forces and CentCom out of Qatar if they really wanted to cause shit - but they will not do that because the current Emir is pro US.

Not too pro I hope, it would be cool if QR stays all-Airbus airline.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 16):

Somehow I think you misunderstood this line:

that's why I asked him to clarify his comments...

Quoting Leskova (Reply 16):

... well... most are... but not all...  Wink

Ok..many of the top carriers in the world... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
M27
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 24):
Yeah you are right. Getting AC to buy Boeing was just "another bit of business". QF ordering 787 "usual business". CX buying GE T7s "nothing special". I see what you mean. And there we were thinking that winning new revenue streams was as significant to B as it is to A and vice versa. I could learn a lot from you.

Were any of the airlines you mentioned all Airbus before thay bought Boeing? Which is more important to who-Boeing getting a new customer or Airbus preventing that as far as Qatar is concerned? That is what I meant.

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 24):
Not too pro I hope, it would be cool if QR stays all-Airbus airline.

We know what you personally hope!

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 24):
I could learn a lot from you.

Not from me Ebb! You're too much of a smart___ !

[Edited 2006-09-12 00:22:10]
 
ebbuk
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting M27 (Reply 26):

Where any of the airlines you mentioned all Airbus before thay bought Boeing? Which is more important to who-Boeing getting a new customer or Airbus preventing that as far as Qatar is concerned? That is what I meant.

my response to this comment still stands. Ask anyone at Boeing if winning that business was not a top priority to them. Then ask Airbus how important it would have been to have bagged those orders.

Then see if you could still make the comment that you did. Cause if you could then my response below would stand.

Quoting M27 (Reply 26):

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 24):
I could learn a lot from you.

Not from me Ebb! You're too much of a smart___ !

But you are right, I am too smart, at least never to say that new business matters less to Boeing than it does to Airbus
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting M27 (Reply 11):
If Qatar airways, or the government of Qatar thinks its going to dictate US policy by aircraft orders, then I think that is stupid!

QR doesn't think it can influence US policy -- if indeed it held off the order because of US policy, it is doing what many of us do -- voicing our objection with our wallet.

As an analogy, I am convinced my little vote in each US election does absolutely nothing to sway US policy. Yet I take great pleasure in exercising my vote, if only in protest, in each election.

Could be that QR had an 11th hour change of heart after it heard Airbus's new 350xwb was intending to compete with the 777 market.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 24):
Yes any airline buying the T7 outright now for future development is asking for trouble. Old tech in new era doesn't breed success.

If QR is better off flying their four A346s until the A350-1000 arrives in around a decade because it is supposed to better then the 773ER available now, well why not wait fifteen years for Y3, since it is supposed to be better then the A350-1000 will be when it is available? Eventually, QR has to pull the trigger.

Their competitor EK has 10 A345s and 10 772LRs are coming, which allows them to fly farther and/or carry more payload farther then QR can with their 9 A333s. EK also has 17 773ERs (with more on the way), which allows them to fly about as many people about as far as QR can with their 4 A346s, and do so more efficiently.

The 773ER and 772LR may be eclipsed by the A350-1000 and A350-900R, but can QR afford to wait for them later when EK is "bulking up" now? I have no real doubts that the A350 has a home with QR in the future, but QR needs to focus on the present, as well.
 
M27
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 28):
Could be that QR had an 11th hour change of heart after it heard Airbus's new 350xwb was intending to compete with the 777 market.

Sure, it could be. I believe I acknowledged that with-

Quoting M27 (Reply 11):
Also we are leaving out the possibilty of Airbus actions



Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 28):
QR doesn't think it can influence US policy -- if indeed it held off the order because of US policy, it is doing what many of us do -- voicing our objection with our wallet.

Is that not a form of trying to influence policy? But-

Quoting M27 (Reply 11):
If Qatar airways, or the government of Qatar thinks its going to dictate US policy by aircraft orders, then I think that is stupid!

Please notice the IF.
 
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ER757
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:45 am

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 19):
I think Boeing and QR were close to a deal for some frames and the Airbus annoucement of the XWB gave them pause. I believe that was the time frame at Farnborough.

I'd pretty much agree with this, but doesn't the fact that Boeing issued the press release and the fact that they have the 20 UFO 777's listed on their order page indicate that they and QR were more than just "close" to a deal? I do think that the 350XWB gave QR some second thoughts, I think they may never take these 777's, but I think it may cost them some $$ to back out. Of course, I've not seen the contract (if there even is one) so I could be completely wrong
 
JAL
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:05 am

Well guys, it has been confirmed that Qatar Airways will order the 777, anyone knows the split?
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:25 am

As JAL noted, the deal is official.
QR Confirms 777 Order, Sticks To A350 Order (by Manni Sep 12 2006 in Civil Aviation)

As for the split, I believe it's 16 773ERs and 4 772LRs. Check the UFOs for each on Boeing's order site and you'll know for sure.  Smile
 
Aviator27
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:08 pm

The facts in the article are wrong and may be old information being rehashed to fill space. Like someone pointed out in the other threat, the deliveries of the XWB cannot start in 2009. I would take the information in that article with a grain of salt. You can't believe everything you read online. Well I certainly don't, especially when the article contains factually incorrect information.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
As for the split, I believe it's 16 773ERs and 4 772LRs. Check the UFOs for each on Boeing's order site and you'll know for sure.

No need to sir though to clarify it is 6 x 772LR and 14 x 773ER  Smile

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 24):

Yes any airline buying the T7 outright now for future development is asking for trouble. Old tech in new era doesn't breed success. Unless they can lease them either from the manufacturer or a leasing company as a "interim lift" till the new tech aircraft arrive, they are better sticking it out with what they've got. Now it seems one manufacturer is more reluctant to carry out this type of business than the other (clue it's the one that doesn't need to "beg" anyone)

So why are carriers still purchasing the A330's or 767's? Should I believe you or many of the top carriers in the world....you tell me... Wink

Quoting Leskova (Reply 16):

Somehow I think you misunderstood this line

Judging from his comments above..I guess I didn't... Wink

Quoting ER757 (Reply 31):
I think they may never take these 777's,

Guess your wrong there mate... Wink

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 34):
The facts in the article are wrong and may be old information being rehashed to fill space.

correct, but this part of the release isn't old-rehashed stuff..

"There had been differing accounts earlier in various international media on whether Qatar Airways had opted for the aircraft. Speculation was rife as Boeing showed off its order books which included 777 sales to an unnamed buyer, which was assumed to be Qatar Airways.

Yesterday's statement by the airline's CEO put to rest any guessing games. An order of 20 777-family aircraft would cost in the region of $4.24bn. Financing details for the aircraft, however, are not available."

cheers...
"Up the Irons!"
 
cartoonranger
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:45 pm

Whilst some of the information is factually incorrect, the fact does remain that a statement was made yesterday, whereby the CEO confirmed the order. The article also appeared in "hard copy" in the newspaper itself. I fail to see how that information can be construed as being a lie. Here in Qatar i think most of us believe it.
 
Leskova
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:09 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):
Judging from his comments above..I guess I didn't... Wink

You mean these comments?  Wink

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 24):
You and I say the same thing, only that you said it more clearly than I did. Instead of "them" I should have said Airbus. Sorry
Smile - it confuses people!
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 38):

You mean these comments?  Wink

He says one thing on one post, then a contradictory comment in another...so how about if we call it even?  Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
Reggaebird
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:01 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
As JAL noted, the deal is official.

QR Confirms 777 Order, Sticks To A350 Order (by Manni Sep 12 2006 in Civil Aviation)

As for the split, I believe it's 16 773ERs and 4 772LRs. Check the UFOs for each on Boeing's order site and you'll know for sure.

Well, I wouldn't say that the The Peninsula is the most reliable newspaper in the Middle East. I still won't count this order as confirmed until I see it in a reliable American newspaper or on the web sites of Qatar Airways or Boeing.

Reggaebird
 
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting Reggaebird (Reply 40):
Well, I wouldn't say that the The Peninsula is the most reliable newspaper in the Middle East. I still won't count this order as confirmed until I see it in a reliable American newspaper or on the web sites of Qatar Airways or Boeing.

Well Boeing hasn't said anything (at least to the local SEA media), but then I imagine they'll wait for Al Baker to give them a formal, written-in-triplicate permission slip to do so. Big grin
 
ebbuk
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:22 am

Sad sad day.  weeping 

There I was hoping that they'd drop those Boeings.

Ho hum tis busines of the business. Congrats to B and QR for nailing the deal
 
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 42):
Sad sad day.

Well QR evidently converted six A346HGW options to orders at the same time, as well as re-committed to the A350 for the long term. So it's not all bad news for Airbus.  Smile
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 42):
Sad sad day.  weeping 

There I was hoping that they'd drop those Boeings.

Ho hum tis busines of the business. Congrats to B and QR for nailing the deal

your comments crack me up... rotfl 
"Up the Irons!"
 
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ER757
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:49 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):
Quoting ER757 (Reply 31):
I think they may never take these 777's,

Guess your wrong there mate...

Yep - I sure am, and glad too. Happy to see this order firmed up!

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 44):
Quoting EbbUK (Reply 42):
Sad sad day.

There I was hoping that they'd drop those Boeings.

Ho hum tis busines of the business. Congrats to B and QR for nailing the deal

your comments crack me up...

I think maybe a girl who works for Boeing must have dumped him  Big grin
 
jacobin777
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting ER757 (Reply 45):
I think maybe a girl who works for Boeing must have dumped him  biggrin 

 rotfl 

this order is also announced on the Arab Air Carriers Organisation...(AACO)...seems that the order is more credible now..

http://www.aaco.org/default.asp
"Up the Irons!"
 
ebbuk
Posts: 844
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:47 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 44):

your comments crack me up...  

What can I tell you, it hurts everytime a Boeing order is announced. Yes I should take a chill pill and see the many wonders that life and the world has to offer. Or better still, see the beauty of the B planes in the same light that I see the beauty of the A planes. But I don't so the hurt is there.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 45):
I think maybe a girl who works for Boeing must have dumped him  

Not sure I could date a girl who works for Boeing. Unless I could put a bag over her head and plug her ears. Because I would just talk to her about how great Airbus is 24/7.

Hmmm actually sounds a lot better than the one I am in seeing now
 Smile
 
eatmybologna
Posts: 375
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 47):



Quoting EbbUK (Reply 47):
Hmmm actually sounds a lot better than the one I am in seeing now

True, at least she'd talk to you about something that interests you instead of the usual bla bla bla..."So, I went shopping with my sister today, bought some new shoes and a matching blouse......(yaaaawn)  Embarrassment
Isn't knowledge more than just the acquisition of information? Shouldn't the acquired information be correct?
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: Qatar Airways And Boeing - Future Relationship

Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 47):

What can I tell you, it hurts everytime a Boeing order is announced. Yes I should take a chill pill and see the many wonders that life and the world has to offer. Or better still, see the beauty of the B planes in the same light that I see the beauty of the A planes. But I don't so the hurt is there.

Of course we know your devotion to Airbus...but its funny to read it..at least we know what side of the fence you are on as you don't try to hide it in any way, shape or form.... Wink

apropos..While I prefer Boeings, I do like Airbus also....here's me flying on an AF A321 CDG-LHR....hopefully this will get you excited.. (I'll be posting the landing of the flight soon, as well as an EK A330 out of DXB)..... Smile

cheers

"Up the Irons!"

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