Airliners.net

Effective in the DL winter schedule I can not find any mainline service into ALB. Am I missing something? DL will increase mainling service into ROC and BUF to 3 each day into both airports.

DL hasn't had mainline service to ALB for several months.

DL hasn't had mainline service to ALB for several months.

Wow, I cant believe this. There is no Airtran competition on this route. It must be do to Southwest's expansion. Although I do not see a direct correlation.

DL has added ALB-JFK service which is doing well. DL would like to have mainline service on many routes but is using more and more RJs to fill the gap. ALB is a strong station for DL.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 3): DL has added ALB-JFK service which is doing well. DL would like to have mainline service on many routes but is using more and more RJs to fill the gap. ALB is a strong station for DL.

Very true, but not long ago they used to have 72S and M88s from ATL and PWM thru Albany!

I don't know of any mainline flights on DL or many other airlines that stop at intermediate cities to/from a hub. It's just too expensive.

ALB is exactly the kind of city where people expect and support alot of RJ service because there aren't a whole lot of options. While several carriers have mainline service, enough of the total ALB schedule is composed of RJs that no regular ALB traveller to all of the US or the world can totally refuse to use RJs or their choices diminish very quickly.

I would love to see DL bring back mainline to MDT. I remember before 9/11 when DL had two 737-300's RON at MDT every night. One would fly direct to ATL and the other would go ABE-MDT each morning.

The real problem here is that Delta is short on narrowbody mainline aircraft. They could really use some E-190/195 and/or 73G/738 so that they can cut down on their reliance on high-cost regional jets. Once they can start getting more narrowbodies (admittedly a ways off), we can probably expect to see them back in places like ALB.

Keep in mind though, ALB now has connecting opportunites through JFK, so demand to other hubs may be reduced as some of that connecting traffic is shifted to JFK.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5): I don't know of any mainline flights on DL or many other airlines that stop at intermediate cities to/from a hub. It's just too expensive.

PWM at the time was a focus city I believe, this was early-mid 1990s.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5): ALB is exactly the kind of city where people expect and support alot of RJ service because there aren't a whole lot of options. While several carriers have mainline service, enough of the total ALB schedule is composed of RJs that no regular ALB traveller to all of the US or the world can totally refuse to use RJs or their choices diminish very quickly.

Very true and they've come to expect it, however growing up near Albany and having visited the airport for many many years before moving to NYC, I remember seeing at one point in time or another (talking mid-80s to present):

American: 727/72S/M80/F100 (now all ERJ)
Delta: 72S/M80/73S/738 (now CRJ/CR7/DH8)
USAir: 72S/73S/733/734/D9S/M80/F100 (now with CRJ/CR7/733/734/E70/DH8)
Eastern: 727/72S/D9S/D95 (no longer exist)
NW: D9S/D94/D95/319/320 (still flying all types except 320 into the airport)
United: 727/72S/73S/733 (now with ERJ/CRJ/E70/733/319)
Midway: 73S/D9S (no longer exist)
Piedmont: 72S/73S/733 (no longer exist)
Various regional/connection airlines (NWAirlink, Business Express, American Eagle, Command, Allegheny, COex all with a variety of prop birds)

Which as you can see is drastically different from ALB today...

[Edited 2006-09-11 00:59:27]

Delta is still flying at least one MD-88 per day into ALB:

http://flightaware.com/live/findflig...e.rvt?origin=KALB&destination=KATL

Or maybe its a substitution, but not all hope is lost...

Here in ROC,the 4pm arrival is now a MD88. Great to see the 88's here in daylight. The other arrives around 10pm. We got the 732's this year from April to July. Then that flight went to a EV -700,now it's a MD88.
I remember when we used to get 3 727's a day.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 8): Very true and they've come to expect it, however growing up near Albany and having visited the airport for many many years before moving to NYC, I remember seeing at one point in time or another (talking mid-80s to present): American: 727/72S/M80/F100 (now all ERJ) Delta: 72S/M80/73S/738 (now CRJ/CR7/DH8) USAir: 72S/73S/733/734/D9S/M80/F100 (now with CRJ/CR7/733/734/E70/DH8) Eastern: 727/72S/D9S/D95 (no longer exist) NW: D9S/D94/D95/319/320 (still flying all types except 320 into the airport) United: 727/72S/73S/733 (now with ERJ/CRJ/E70/733/319) Midway: 73S/D9S (no longer exist) Piedmont: 72S/73S/733 (no longer exist) Various regional/connection airlines (NWAirlink, Business Express, American Eagle, Command, Allegheny, COex all with a variety of prop birds) Which as you can see is drastically different from ALB today...

What you say is true. I, too, grew up near Albany, and always did "timetable runs" at the airport when we'd go to town. However, you didn't mention the POSITIVE changes that have come to ALB following the arrival of Southwest - nonstops to Orlando, Las Vegas and soon, Tampa! That's great for the ALB market. But I do agree with you, when we're talking about linking ALB with major hubs, most flights are now on RJs.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 7): The real problem here is that Delta is short on narrowbody mainline aircraft

    

Removal of the 732, 733, 762 (causing 75's to be worked more). 764's to Int'l, and massive Int'l expansion - a lot of it on the legs of the 738 fleet, all with no new entrants to the fleet - yet not offset by DFW de-hubbing and faster turn times.

The smaller markets (me @ GRR included) simply get cut from mainline. Hopefully we'll get E70 service!

is the winter schedule finalized

It must be DL is after FL market share. While DL increase seats on BUF-ATL and ROC-ATL, both FL markets, DL is taking away seats on SYR-ATL and ALB-ATL, non FL markets.

[Edited 2006-09-11 02:32:27]

Quoting RocANDtpa (Reply 14): It must be DL is after FL market share. While DL increase seats on BUF-ATL and ROC-ATL, both FL markets, DL is taking away seats on SYR-ATL and ALB-ATL, non FL markets.

Possibly - there is another thread on ATL-MLI service.

Here in ROC....I remember when we used to get 3 727's a day.

During much of the 1990's, DL flew 5 daily 727's on ROC-ATL. Two of them stopped at SYR.

For Dec. 18, websites show:
DL ROC-ATL 3 MD-88/ 3 CRJ
FL ROC-ATL 3 717

AFAIK, this the most seat capacity we've ever had on the route at once. DL isn't likely to hurt AirTran much, though; FL is well-established in ROC. Both airlines seem to have found their niche in the market. If this is too much capacity, I'd look for DL to downgrade one MD-88 to a CRJ or CR7 before AirTran drops a frequency.

Scott, I'm looking forward to your daytime MD-88 photos!

Jim

I just checked the delta schedules for syr-atl and syr-cvg on december 4th and it shows no capacity decrease from what we had over the summer(3x crj and 2x MD-88 for atl and 3x crj for cvg). Also I noticed that US has upped the capacity on the syr-dca route with a new eveing crj flight and changed the afternoon emb-170 to an A319

Jim look for them on that 'other' website (JP) i have had it uploading here. I'll try and go after work Monday if it's sunny.
I remember when the 727's would stop in SYR,that must have bean a real money maker   2 727 take offs burying the fuel flow guages  
UA used to stop in BUF from ROC enroute to ORD on the last departure of the day.

[Edited 2006-09-11 03:39:19]

Yes, Scott I remember too...the days when UA had six mainline dailies on ROC-ORD, with the one 1-stop in BUF! All 727's and 737's. I still think one of the most beautiful 722 liveries was the UA 1974-1994 livery, especially after they tweaked the lettering (bigger) in (I want to say) the late 80s.

DL seems to have maintained Eastern's success on ROC-southbound routes. Typically EA ran three dailies on ROC-ATL, sometimes one stopped in SYR. All 727's and DC-9's. EA opened a hub in PHL in (I think) the mid '80s, so in their later years we usually had 2-3 daily ROC-PHL and 3 daily ROC-ATL.

When Frank Lorenzo was dismantling EA in the late 80's, he sold the PHL hub to Midway. From late '89 til not long before their 1991 shutdown, Midway ran three dailies on ROC-PHL. DC-9-30's and DC-9-10's. Midway used B7, most recently the Independence Air gate, in the East ("Susan B. Anthony") Concourse when it opened in July 1990. IIRC, it was then AA's third gate and Midway subletted it.

Jim

Another reason DL is doing this is to continue the elimination of DL employees. IIRC, ALB still had real DL employees working the counter and gate. With this change, those employees will either have to transfer to DL Connection, transfer to a different mainline station with openings or leave the company. Eventually, I expect you will only see real DL employees in about 50-60 domestic markets. Everyone else will be contracted out.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 20): Another reason DL is doing this is to continue the elimination of DL employees. IIRC, ALB still had real DL employees working the counter and gate. With this change, those employees will either have to transfer to DL Connection, transfer to a different mainline station with openings or leave the company. Eventually, I expect you will only see real DL employees in about 50-60 domestic markets. Everyone else will be contracted out.

Sounds like someone is jumping to conclusions. This isn't the case. If you recall a similar situation happened at MKE and YUL just this past June. Both stations are still DL employees.

ALB will still have mainline service. The schedules aren't completed yet. They will have mainline service when Dec. comes around though.