Matt D
Topic Author
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:56 am

Gosh...to go back to the 1980's and early 1990's...

For you young folks today who drool over the likes of JetBlue, "New" United, "New" Northwest, plus the seemingly endless supply of all white fuselages with a blue or grey stripe on the tail....

well those of us who experienced the Old Days will forgive you for simply not knowing better.


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briboy
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2001 1:47 am

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:33 am

You want colour? Here is some colour Canadian style:


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next up: YYC, SFO, SYD, AKL, WLG, CMB, BKK, SIN, FRA, VCE, JFK
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
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RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:40 am

You know, I could almost tolerate the "You can have any color you want...as long as it's white." (to horribly misquote Henry Ford) mentality if it weren't for the endless sea of frigging Airline Blue cablins.

I don't know that I could tell you the difference between a Northwest, United, Delta, American, or Continental aircraft unless I had seen the outside of the thing before boarding.

Yes, Blue is "soothing". I'm not asking for scarlet-red cabins (though it would look kinda cool) just some variety. Maybe a little green, or a different shade of blue. Maybe even just change the color of the carpet. Something. Anything. (Just not leather, please.)

I've seen pictures of cabins from the 60s and 70s, so I know it's possible to get the seats in colors other than "Airline Drab Blue Check".

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
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1337Delta764
Posts: 4920
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RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 2):
Yes, Blue is "soothing". I'm not asking for scarlet-red cabins (though it would look kinda cool) just some variety. Maybe a little green, or a different shade of blue. Maybe even just change the color of the carpet. Something. Anything. (Just not leather, please.)

On Delta's aircraft with the refurbished interior, Delta has been changing the bulkheads from the dark blue with stripes to a light gray. What is also interesting is the color of the PSU. Delta's newer aircraft, including the 767-400ER, 777-200ER, 737-800, and newer 757-200s have all-white PSUs. On Delta's older 757s with the refurbished interior, they have replaced the brown PSUs with gray ones. On many of the MD-88s with the refurbished interior, the black PSUs have also been replaced with gray ones.

I remember my first Delta 767-300 flight in 1996, and the aircraft had a mixture of red and orange seats. Now on the 767-300s with the refurbished interior, they are all blue leather.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
bnamaxx
Posts: 231
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RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting Briboy (Reply 1):
You want colour? Here is some colour Canadian style:

CP Air orange was the best c/s ever. It looked good on every a/c it was painted on.
 
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antoniemey
Posts: 1229
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RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:04 am

hrm... where has all the color gone, you ask, and you show mostly planes that were Orange and Red... seems they just traded one pair of colors for another to me.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
sushka
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 1999 12:33 am

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:11 am

Here was some good color:

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and this is what we have today:

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Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
 
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Aeroflot777
Posts: 2995
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:19 am

You like color?

Here you go:  Smile


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Aeroflot777
 
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RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:31 am


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7 hours aint long-haul
 
bnamaxx
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:34 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:38 pm

BN was always colorful. I went out to DFW a couple days after they shutdown. To see all those jets crammed in around 2W was sad, but also pretty. Very bright. Too bad airlines don't do more varied c/s like that anymore.
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:51 pm

Yes the worse offender of the no colour colour scheme is Star Alliance....
I mean it was sort of okay with all the airline participant logos running down the fuselage....But now.....it looks like they found a giant typewriter and sinply took a whgite fuselage and typed it out in black...Then thet hideous black and great logo...Come on guys...
And yes, they endless sea of Whitye fuselages with ew mediocre loho and large block titles....Whoopdee doo....
Some one forgot to post a colour scheme that I think is cool and that is of Wizz Air.....reminds me if Purple and Pink Jelly beans....
United should have put some red and orange back into their variation of blue....would have looked much better. Delta could have done better than thet weird tail....
the new USAirways....Dont like it much....it still looks too "Stephen Wolf"......Matter factly so does the new United.....
Therer seems to be a total lack of green in colour schemes.......Can you al tell I miss Ozark!?!?!?!
I think that people need to start designing paint schemes and stop letting the computers do it.....

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4444
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:28 pm

Styles change. Today "hot" colors are out and "cool" colors are in. This will change, just stick around a while.
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:45 am

Well....The I guess from the look of it, that White is "White Hot", right?????

I would love to see the Lufthansa Retro scheme RE-Introduced onto their entire fleet!!! Imagine that!!!!

Would love to see the old Dark Blue and Gold Speedbird logo back on British Airways.

Delta and their Wavey Gravy Tail has to go....

Northwest really should reconsider their "nwa" and fix that wrong pointing logo on the right side of their planes....

USairways needs to think of something a little less....how should I say, not too original? Can we say Liesure Air colours with a few fancy highlights? Or the original Presidential Airways that flew BAe146s and B737s.....Lets go back to the drawing boards boys...

Mexicana's new colours or should I say the lack thereof???

Continental is due for a new one too.....and not some new wavy computer generated crap...

Id like to see the use of cheatlines and silver bellies again.....Black noses and black visors.....

AirTran needs to go back to the cream colour...That White makes the Teal Red and Blue look gross....

Jet Blue, they need to not look so Jet Generic.....

Southwest is okay although Id love to see that Blue section also substituted for some green too...A green that compliments the gold and orange not a baby shit or puke colour...

And the list goes on, but I wont....

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
USADreamliner
Posts: 1211
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RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
For you young folks today who drool over the likes of JetBlue, "New" United, "New" Northwest, plus the seemingly endless supply of all white fuselages with a blue or grey stripe on the tail....

well those of us who experienced the Old Days will forgive you for simply not knowing better.

Well, things change. Just move on.
I like airCal livery, but I also like the actual United!
I don't like the old (70's) NW, but I like the new one!

So, it's all about personal taste, not about age.

Do I want to see an airplane in pink and magenta? no, thanks.

Do I want the interior of the airplane all in yellow,brown,red and lime green? ...no.

Do I want a flight attendant wearing hot pants and knee high boots? ...well, yes  Sad


usadreamliner
 
coyoteguy
Posts: 480
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 8:58 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):
Where Did All The Color Go?

The same place as all the service?
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:31 am

Thanks for putting "some color back" ..man you guys are cool.

I'm drooling at the elegance of that Pacific Western 767.

And that is nothing.. all the colorful Latin, African and European color schemes that today are nothing but ugly white flying pills, with the obligatory blue engines and tail. gnasher 
 
bnamaxx
Posts: 231
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RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:41 pm

Speaking of color...........

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richierich
Posts: 3295
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RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 16):
Speaking of color...........

Not to be rude, but that looks like graffiti to me. I know it is "different", perhaps even "interesting", but it doesn't appeal to me very strongly.

I should also point out that all white color schemes (and better yet, polished metal) also have a savings when it comes to an airline's bottom line. With jet fuel pushing $65 per barrel (sometimes more, sometimes less), saving a few hundred pounds in paint is a no-brainer. Also, lighter colors (and again, polished metal) are better are reflecting the heat in hot climates, keeping the cabin cooler. Not to mention that there is an added expense in maintaining busy patterns such as the older Ecuatoriana livery or Singapore's Megatop livery from a few years back, but it probably costs more to clean an all-white aircraft (ahem, Air France).

Mostly white color schemes doesn't have to mean boring, in my opinion. There are some that I think are classy and professional by the lack of their overtly flamboyant color schemes - CO & BA come to mind. I suppose that any livery becomes "boring" when you see it a thousand times a day at any given megahub.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 2):
I don't know that I could tell you the difference between a Northwest, United, Delta, American, or Continental aircraft unless I had seen the outside of the thing before boarding.

This is true - but I'll take blue/gray over the crazy cabin colors of the 1970s.
None shall pass!!!!
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 16):
Speaking of color...........

That's when airlines used to let real artists!!! instead of blah blah marketing firms headed by Photoshop Joe design airplanes. My favorite special liveries of all time right there if I had to pick one.. now.. out of those 4 which one do I pick?!?

Quoting Richierich (Reply 17):
Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 16):
Speaking of color...........

Not to be rude, but that looks like graffiti to me. I know it is "different", perhaps even "interesting", but it doesn't appeal to me very strongly.

We understand you brother, your slightly younger and grew up in a different, more boring era  Wink in our opinion  bigthumbsup 
 
coiah756ca
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:31 am

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:59 pm

COLOR?

I believe we fellas at CO have a nice solution for that.


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That scheme, is as The Wu Tang Clan would say, "Aint Nuthin Ta Fuck Wit".  Wink
Long live Denver-STAPLETON. RIP the old and best KDEN
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:52 pm

Quoting COIAH756CA (Reply 19):
That scheme, is as The Wu Tang Clan would say, "Aint Nuthin Ta Fuck Wit".

Quite honestly, I think that aircraft looks like it was taxiing past a paint factory that exploded more than a planned out scheme.

But it is certainly a pleasant bit of color.

(On a related note, anyone near Cleveland/Beechwood, OH it looks like there's going to be a Peter Max exhibit this weekend)

Lincoln Big grin
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
coiah756ca
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:31 am

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:54 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 20):
Quite honestly, I think that aircraft looks like it was taxiing past a paint factory that exploded more than a planned out scheme.

That's what's so great about it.
Long live Denver-STAPLETON. RIP the old and best KDEN
 
bhxdtw
Posts: 1036
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:39 pm

Re: Cabin colors... TK have a pink shade now..

I love the old schemes , and I say old as Im only 24 and I cant remember the previous vintage schemes shown above.. I have flown on my fair share of vintage airliners and one of my personal schemes was the old all red and white AC scheme with the red maple..

I do also admit their is a lot of white about... too much infact..
but thats not everyone:

COLORS OF TODAY:


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Nice eh ??

Seems to me that yes theirs a lot of white out their but their sure is a lot of color...
I think its simply a fact that you dont always see these nice colorful birds at your local airport but in fact see a lot of birds that are more white..
 
irobertson
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:35 am

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:19 pm

Air Canada did try and revive a funky color scheme with their "Zip" discount carrier a few years ago. That Helvetic F100 reminded me of them. Saw them flying into London CYXU a few times. 737-200s if I remember correctly. They might be still out in Mojave.
 
bnamaxx
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:34 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 18):
Not to be rude, but that looks like graffiti to me. I know it is "different", perhaps even "interesting", but it doesn't appeal to me very strongly.

We understand you brother, your slightly younger and grew up in a different, more boring era in our opinion

Hey, no problem Richie. You can't help it if you are dull.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6459
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:30 am

Did I hear you guys scream COLOURS????

As one who is fortunate enough to enjoy the old colourful days, and still able to experience the more colourful of today, let's see what can be found in my country...

Colourful scenes

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GA Citilink

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Photo © Rinaldi Hanafi



Good Old Garuda

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Photo © Eric Grivel



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Proof that older style colours are more exciting...
New Batavia

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Photo © Baron F. Hussein


Boring (Gotta love this hybrid though)!

"Old" Batavia

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Lion Air old c/s

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Two old schemes of Kartika Airlines

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Old Old Merpati

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But some bucks that trend...
Outrageous Orange... Adam Air

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Photo © Peter de Jong


New Mandala colours and Wings... But Wings is changing to an all whiter now  Sad

Sriwijaya Current

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GT Air

Want some blue of Xpress's old c/s?

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Photo © Torben Guse


Even our Police has joined the crowd...

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The Late Jatayu (We call them the Pink Squad)... the airline that never made up its mind on its c/s

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Here's for classic consistency in a not very commonly used colour...

Want a touch of green? Bouraq

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Purple/Violet anyone?

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OK... We got some colourful visitors too past and preent

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Photo © Tango3 - Team Ninervictor
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Photo © Hilke Jürgensmeier



Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
richierich
Posts: 3295
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 18):
We understand you brother, your slightly younger and grew up in a different, more boring era in our opinion

I may not be as young as you think.


Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 24):
Hey, no problem Richie. You can't help it if you are dull.

Dull, no. Practical, yes.
Next time, might I suggest actually quoting me instead of quoting a person who quoted me.
None shall pass!!!!
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting COIAH756CA (Reply 19):
I believe we fellas at CO have a nice solution for that.

Continental has one of the most boring liveries ever for a US major. Peter Max doesn't count, it's only one plane (seen only in a few airports)

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 22):
I think its simply a fact that you dont always see these nice colorful birds at your local airport but in fact see a lot of birds that are more white..

You got the point. For example at Miami airport, where those Ecuatoriana shots above were taken, (with no colorful low cost carriers) most airlines flying there now have white fuselages with blue tails. Many airlines but few are colorful.

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 24):
Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 18):
Not to be rude, but that looks like graffiti to me. I know it is "different", perhaps even "interesting", but it doesn't appeal to me very strongly.

We understand you brother, your slightly younger and grew up in a different, more boring era in our opinion

Hey, no problem Richie. You can't help it if you are dull.

I'm not Richie..  Confused wrong person quoted there..I would never say such a thing  Smile

There's plenty of "Richies" out there today in the airline's marketing departments nowadays unfortunately!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12427
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:18 am

I believe that the simplier, white dominated paint schemes are the idea of the image makers to make these airlines look 'professional'; that they are the airlines of business people, not tourists, that most of them don't care about how the paint scheme is on a plane, unlike us here on A-net.
Complex paint schemes are probably much more expensive to put on and to maintain, at a time when costs must be cut to the bone by all airlines. Complex paint schemes may also lower resale values of aircraft as they would add to costs for later users.
Let us not forget that TWA and PanAm had paint schemes that were mostly white with simple logos on the tail, cheat lines.
 
richierich
Posts: 3295
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:33 am

I should also point out that when BA went to their World Liveries schemes, with several very intricately different tail designs, they received nothing but bad press. Some of the biggest criticisms were that they lacked a corporate identity and lacked anything "British", which of course is huge part of their brand.

Perhaps we live in a time when less is more, but from a practically point-of-view, simple white and unfussy liveries are in. Airlines still have a lot of leeway when it comes to establishing a brand but saving money is always going to be a winning theme.

I guess is a.netters had their way, "real" airlines wouldn't exist and there would be scores of quarter-full, multi-colored L-1011s, 707s, and 747SPs still plying the US skies. For anybody that can't let go of such fantasies, I suggest hitting the snooze bar for another 9 minutes.....
None shall pass!!!!
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 25):
As one who is fortunate enough to enjoy the old colourful days, and still able to experience the more colourful of today, let's see what can be found in my country...

No doubt Indonesia and the rest of Asia is where's at right now if you want to see airlines whose fleets are painted in attractive paintschemes (not the lame 1 special livery thing we have in the west).

Batavia air tried to go "professional", "modern" or whatever nonsense in their new A319 and lol.. what a horrible livery that is!
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 28):
Let us not forget that TWA and PanAm had paint schemes that were mostly white with simple logos on the tail, cheat lines.

The key word in the above statement is "CHEAT LINES." They simply dont exist anymore....There is no personality in airline colours.....

Quoting Richierich (Reply 29):
I guess is a.netters had their way, "real" airlines wouldn't exist and there would be scores of quarter-full, multi-colored L-1011s, 707s, and 747SPs still plying the US skies. For anybody that can't let go of such fantasies, I suggest hitting the snooze bar for another 9 minutes.....

Quite a snobby reply eh? No one is suggesting airlines fly aircraft that are no longer practical, they are stating that they are wishing airlines would go back to actually spending some time and creativity with the appearnace of their airplanes......NO fanatsies here, just someof us wishing things were liek they used to be.....
YOU are welcome to fly in your pastey white generic airliners whilst wearing your business suit and tie looking down your nose at the rest of us A.netters as we try and seek out the loudest most outlandishly painted aircraft whilst having fun doing so.

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
noelg
Posts: 2313
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 11:39 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting Matt D (Thread starter):

I think it's quite funny that while today we talk about all the "Eurowhite" colour schemes, in the olden days were people talking about all the orange and red? Seems that pretty much every US airline in the seventies and eighties looked the same - red and orange! United, Frontier, PSA, Continental, US Air, PeopleXpress, AirCal, New York Air, all of the colour schemes you posted look very similar!

Noel
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 31):
The key word in the above statement is "CHEAT LINES." They simply dont exist anymore....There is no personality in airline colours.....

There's nothing wrong with cheatlines. They give the plane more elegance, make it look more sleek, and most importantly: less boring!

But for some reason marketing folks with no taste think planes somehow look better without them  Confused
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 33):
Quoting Access-Air (Reply 31):
The key word in the above statement is "CHEAT LINES." They simply dont exist anymore....There is no personality in airline colours.....

There's nothing wrong with cheatlines. They give the plane more elegance, make it look more sleek, and most importantly: less boring!

But for some reason marketing folks with no taste think planes somehow look better without them

Thats why I said that......I love and miss cheatlines......I also miss seeing black noses and black visors.....

My guess the reason for al the "EUROWHITE" fuselages is because no one owns the planes anymore...and they can re-poed at any time so they just slap on titles and a logo..easier to switch planes around....and they dont even use paint anymore...alot of them use stickers....Sheesh......

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 34):
I also miss seeing black noses and black visors.....

same here... one of the few airlines to keep the dark nose today is Malev. Visors look pretty cool also.
 
ThereandBack
Posts: 623
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:26 am

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 22):
Re: Cabin colors... TK have a pink shade now..

You're not the only one who thinks that...I don't understand how anyone can confuse turquoise with pink!







Now you can see there is no pink shade in TK's cabins.
 
richierich
Posts: 3295
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 31):
Quite a snobby reply eh? No one is suggesting airlines fly aircraft that are no longer practical, they are stating that they are wishing airlines would go back to actually spending some time and creativity with the appearnace of their airplanes......NO fanatsies here, just someof us wishing things were liek they used to be.....
YOU are welcome to fly in your pastey white generic airliners whilst wearing your business suit and tie looking down your nose at the rest of us A.netters as we try and seek out the loudest most outlandishly painted aircraft whilst having fun doing so

Sorry Access-Air, that was not my best reply ever. It just seems that all some people do on this site is pine for the good old days (when flying was a snobby and stuffy affair, I might add), but I don't think the good old days were really that good. Sure, there were a lot of things that were different, personal and unique two or three decades ago, but there was also plenty that was unsustainable, gaudy, and classless. I'm not talking about just liveries but my opinion also applies to color schemes.

I am not a snob A-A, not even a little bit, but clearly we differ when it comes to our views of airline liveries. You see boring and generic, I see practical and consistent.
None shall pass!!!!
 
beybos
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:36 pm

RE: Where Did All The Color Go?

Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:08 am

more color = more fuel  Wink
high fuel prices = less colorful aircraft
i guess that answer u r question  Smile
Fly with me today & forget me tomorrow