User avatar
SAS A340
Topic Author
Posts: 713
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 5:59 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:49 am

It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:52 am

So now we have UA, AA, SAS and the Japanese airline on the list of "going to" but no actual orders...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:53 am

If this is confirmed, it will be a big win for Boeing.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
b777a340fan
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:42 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:58 am

Depends on which aircraft SAS is looking to replace. In the long-range department, SAS has been operating a significant family of airbus aircrafts for quite some time, I somehow doubt that they would want to introduce Boeings at this time. I could be wrong though.
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2378
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 3):
SAS has been operating a significant family of airbus aircrafts for quite some time, I somehow doubt that they would want to introduce Boeings at this time. I could be wrong though.

Why would introducing Boeing's be such a problem, even if you have been operating a fleet of Airbus aircraft.....?
 
mauriceb
Posts: 2150
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:50 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:14 am

I don't think it will happen.

The link said they were seeking to take 2 A340's from AC + 15+ 787's which seems way to much for such a ''small'' international carrier as SAS, which only has 11 A330/A340's. Could have been true , but only as a direct replacement for the Airbusses. But since the AC planes will not come available untill next year, when the first 777 will be delivered, it would ready for Active service at the end of 2007 (SAS cabins, Repainted in SAS colours). So when they plan to take the 787 in service in 2011, taking 2 planes for only 4 years seems a waste of money. If they lease it, its a different story, but the artical says they want to ''take them from AC''
 
jfk777
Posts: 5816
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:15 am

I'm surprised since SAS A330/340 are only about 5 years old.
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:19 am

Like all the other rumors on anet, time will tell.
One Nation Under God
 
cobra27
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:57 pm

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 2):
If this is confirmed, it will be a big win for Boeing.

Even if they pick Airbus it wont be a big loss for Boeing, only a couple of frames
 
behramjee
Posts: 4323
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:55 am

Im not really surprised at reading about this as I've read in different forums and magazines that SK find the A 333 used for trans-atlantic flights too big capacity wise.

With the B 787, they can use the B 787-800 for trans-atlantic and medium density long haul flights to Africa, Asia, India and the Middle East. They can also use the B 788 to open new long haul markets for which their current A 333 and A 343 fleet is too big to fly.

The larger B 787-100X they can use from 2011-13 onwards to replace by that time the inefficient A 340-300 used on high density long haul flights to USA and the Far East.

Therefore a fleet consisting of B 788s + B 781Xs is perfectly suited for SAS in my opinion  Wink Both are twin engined and vvv efficient aircraft.
 
User avatar
SAS A340
Topic Author
Posts: 713
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 5:59 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 8):
Even if they pick Airbus it wont be a big loss for Boeing, only a couple of frames

dont think Boeing would hire you as a salesman.....
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
agill
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:49 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:26 am

Judging from SAS past they will most likely buy from both Airbus and Boeing. Preferably a couple of frames of each model.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting Agill (Reply 11):
Judging from SAS past they will most likely buy from both Airbus and Boeing. Preferably a couple of frames of each model.

Add in a few IL-96s as well  Wink . After all, someone has to replace McDD for SAS  Silly .
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22927
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 5):
when they plan to take the 787 in service in 2011, taking 2 planes for only 4 years seems a waste of money. If they lease it, its a different story, but the artical says they want to ''take them from AC''

This assumes SK will actually take delivery in 2011. I'm not sure if the "I'm thinking delivery to SAS in 2011, but not confirmed." comment is from Mr. Lindgren or is speculation on behalf of the poster (tommy777.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 6):
I'm surprised since SAS A330/340 are only about 5 years old.

Well they'd be a decade old in 2011, but if delivery is pushed back farther, that might better fit SK's plan.
 
User avatar
SAS A340
Topic Author
Posts: 713
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 5:59 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 12):
After all, someone has to replace McDD for SAS


And that,s almost 60 frames  Smile
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 14):
And that,s almost 60 frames

Actually I didn't mean Il as replacing the MDs at SAS, rather as their third manufacturer of choice, seeing as how they have a tendency of operating 737s alongside MD-8Xs and A32Xs  Wink .
 
hentzz
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:09 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:26 am

At least something positive from SK. Lately i haven't heard much positive news about SAS. I think the 787 would work quite good for SAS cause it has the range for far eastern ops but it's small enough for north-american routes. Of course time will tell!
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3359
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:33 am

This is hardly news. SAS buys a couple of everything so it was sure to happen.
 
columba
Posts: 5043
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
Actually I didn't mean Il as replacing the MDs at SAS, rather as their third manufacturer of choice, seeing as how they have a tendency of operating 737s alongside MD-8Xs and A32Xs Wink .

Embraers will do the job  Smile
I think that the 787 will fit SAS needs perfectly but I doubt that they order it soon. They have fairly new A330/A340s that are doing a perfect job and SAS is not the wealthiest carrier around.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
b777a340fan
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:42 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 4):

Why would introducing Boeing's be such a problem, even if you have been operating a fleet of Airbus aircraft.....?

Plenty of airlines operate both Boeings and Airbuses, in fact, SAS currently is. However, all I'm saying is that unless they're extremely unhappy with the Airbuses that they currently operate for their long-range flights, I wouldn't see why they would switch over to Boeing unless there is some incentive to do so....
 
User avatar
AirPacific747
Posts: 9250
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:53 am

I hope it is true!!! It'll be so awesome going spotting at CPH if we get 787s Big grin
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 3):
In the long-range department, SAS has been operating a significant family of airbus aircrafts for quite some time

They just very recently switched from 767-300ERs. Those A340s and A330s are very new since they all are between 2 and 5 years old. SAS use to be a big Douglas operator. They first started long haul service with DC8s and then went to DC10s. They are a very recent Airbus long range airplane operator. It seems awfully early to replace the Airbus planes, but they could just be increasing their fleet. SAS has some weird fleet planning since they are a relatively small airline, but operate such a diverse fleet.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7068
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:54 am

I hope SAS gets 787's. It will fit their needs perfectly as Behramjee said.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Oykie
Posts: 1563
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 3):
Depends on which aircraft SAS is looking to replace. In the long-range department, SAS has been operating a significant family of airbus aircrafts for quite some time, I somehow doubt that they would want to introduce Boeings at this time. I could be wrong though.

If SAS orders anything else than A330/A340 it will be for replacement.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 4):
Why would introducing Boeing's be such a problem, even if you have been operating a fleet of Airbus aircraft.....?

I think B777A340Fan was thinking of a mixed fleet, but I truly hope they do not do this. However, SAS long distance fleet, has been strange from time to time.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 6):
I'm surprised since SAS A330/340 are only about 5 years old.

SAS only had the B767 for about 12 years, so they should be thinking about what to replace those birds with. Perhaps SAS sees an opportunity in these new planes to increase their profits on the intercontinental routes. They do not make money on these routes, but if the pilots get the productivity up, then perhaps SAS will please their pilots by ordering new equipment.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 9):
Im not really surprised at reading about this as I've read in different forums and magazines that SK find the A 333 used for trans-atlantic flights too big capacity wise.

That is so true! The A333 is way to big for many SK routes. Take the OSL-EWR route. Worked with 767-300ER, but not with A333.

Quoting Agill (Reply 11):
Judging from SAS past they will most likely buy from both Airbus and Boeing. Preferably a couple of frames of each model.

Good one  Silly

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
Well they'd be a decade old in 2011, but if delivery is pushed back farther, that might better fit SK's plan

 checkmark 

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
Actually I didn't mean Il as replacing the MDs at SAS, rather as their third manufacturer of choice, seeing as how they have a tendency of operating 737s alongside MD-8Xs and A32Xs .

They will make their fleet even more complicated when they get the new CEO that will announce a RJ order.

Quoting Columba (Reply 18):
I think that the 787 will fit SAS needs perfectly but I doubt that they order it soon.

 checkmark 

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 19):
Plenty of airlines operate both Boeings and Airbuses, in fact, SAS currently is. However, all I'm saying is that unless they're extremely unhappy with the Airbuses that they currently operate for their long-range flights, I wouldn't see why they would switch over to Boeing unless there is some incentive to do so....

They do not make money with these planes. In fact they have sold all Airbuses (the MD's as well) and leased them back for some years in order to get a reasonable amount of money for their planes.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 21):
They first started long haul service with DC8s and then went to DC10s.

In fact they started operating the DC-4 overseas way back in 1948 as OSAS for Overseas SAS. Once SAS was a pioneer in flying, while today, they are known to be a dinosaur.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7068
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:01 am

Does SAS still operate the 763ER?

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
CPHGuard
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:58 pm

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 24):
Does SAS still operate the 763ER?

No, they don't. I beleive the last flight was in early 2002.
They had a couple of 767's standing at CPH until late 2003, but they didn't use them.

How can SAS consider one more type for their fleet ? They got to be kidding !

A more interesting question in my mind is, what they will do about the retirering of their MD-80 fleet. They got rid of their MD-90's, that were the youngest in their MD fleet.
The oldest MD-80's are approaching 20 years now, and i dont beleive, that SAS can keep them for another 10 years. They are high cycle planes that fly up to 10 cycles a day. So the oldest ones must be approaching 60000 cycles.

We are talking close to 60 planes here, so any thoughts about what SAS will do in regard to replacement ?

Regards
Thomas
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:54 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
So now we have UA, AA, SAS and the Japanese airline on the list of "going to" but no actual orders...

AA, UA and SAS are rumors right?

Skymark (The Japanese one) informed the Japanese Ministry of Transportation of the intent to purchase 4 787s. This was not a rumor but it is going to happen. It was in the Japanese news as well.

As for SAS... sure would be nice to see it. But then again they have not been in the best economic situation. They seem to not know what kind of airline they are...LCC or International carrier. They should make up their mind about who they are and then think if they are going to buy a new plane.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 17):
This is hardly news. SAS buys a couple of everything so it was sure to happen.

Bwahahaha Big grin

So true. I read the topic title and thought exactly the same! SAS considering another type for their fleet, eh?? No kidding!?

So yeah, I'm sure SAS can find something to do with a few B787s. The T7 and A350 are for some reason too big for SAS.

Even though Finnair does quite fine with airliners of that size. I think that of the two next generation planes the B787 is more useful to SAS. Even so, I do hope they expand to something the size of the B777 or A350!

cheers

Asturias
Tonight we fly
 
behramjee
Posts: 4323
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:28 am

I dont see why it should it be a problem for SK to integrate the B 787s in their long haul fleet. By 2012-13, their A 330/343s would be approximately 10 years old so it shouldnt be too hard to sell these frames to interested airlines around the world or even lease them out on a long term basis like Boeing did for 10 years to EK the A 343s it got from SQ.

The B 787 is an excellent all round option to serve SKs long haul routes of medium and high density demand.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:58 pm

787 would be perfect, so that SAS can operate them out of both ARN & CPH. I am sure they could do that to all the trans-atlantic flights, Chinese & Southeast Asia, too. The only destination where capacity might be needed is to NRT but perhaps if they can obtain the slots to start a second service to ARN, then no problem.
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:03 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 29):
The only destination where capacity might be needed is to NRT but perhaps if they can obtain the slots to start a second service to ARN, then no problem.

Makes me wonder if they will try to pull an AY and hit up KIX and NGO and then a bunch of Chinese cities.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Robbie86
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 11:35 pm

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:26 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 30):
Makes me wonder if they will try to pull an AY and hit up KIX and NGO and then a bunch of Chinese cities.

The plan is to start serious competition with AY from ARN.
 
Oykie
Posts: 1563
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:27 pm

Quoting CPHGuard (Reply 25):
The oldest MD-80's are approaching 20 years now, and i dont beleive, that SAS can keep them for another 10 years.

The MD-80s are good planes, and they are well maintained. Their biggest problem is noise. SAS is rumoured to get QuietEagle from PW in order to reduce noise. Their cabin looks modern, and have been upgraded to a 717 style interior. SAS needs to make money in order to start replacing all their MD-80 airplanes. That being said, 4 MD-87 are leaving to Spanair as SAS will be getting 4 brand new A319.

I believe SAS is included in Boeings numbers when they quote how many airlines are interested in the 787, so there is probably something about this rumor, but not near term. SAS needs to make money with the equipment they got. For SAS Intercontinental it may take some years.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
sk909
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:38 pm

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:23 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 27):
The T7 and A350 are for some reason too big for SAS

No they aren't. But they don't know how to utilize them properly. They need a mix of small and big planes.
Life's for Living!
 
Oykie
Posts: 1563
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:36 pm

Quoting SK909 (Reply 33):
No they aren't. But they don't know how to utilize them properly. They need a mix of small and big planes.

IMO SAS may have had more success if they ordered the 777-200ER and continued to use some of their 767 on routes that did not need the capacity of a larger plane. I believe the reason for dumping Boeing was because Boeing did not offer the same discount as Airbus, combined with the fear of Boeing ending up with a monopoly situation, after they bought MDC.

And when they ordered Airbus, I do not understand that they did not see the potential of the A330-200.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
Robbie86
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 11:35 pm

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 34):
SAS may have had more success if they ordered the 777-200ER and continued to use some of their 767 on routes that did not need the capacity of a larger plane.

Or if the September 11 attacks never had occured.
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting SK909 (Reply 33):
No they aren't. But they don't know how to utilize them properly. They need a mix of small and big planes.

Right. They aren't too big for SAS, but SAS doesn't know how to utilize them. OK, do you know how to utilize such planes in the SAS fleet or are you just guessing?

The case against you is that SAS hasn't bought any B777s or A350s.

cheers

Asturias
Tonight we fly
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3219
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:37 am

Well, by my estimation, they will utilise their A340 and A330 fleets until they come closer to a natural retirement age. At this stage, the A350 and 787 will have been in operation and SK will be able to select the fleet (with proven performance and track record) that is right for them at the right time.

My money's on the A350.

Regards
MH

[Edited 2006-09-12 22:39:38]
come visit the south pacific
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22927
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:22 am

I've been given the impression that SK's international routes, with a few exceptions (like SEA-CPH) have been...underperforming...as of late. If this is true, and remains so going forward, that might influence SK to go with the 787 - perhaps even in an 8-abreast config - as the A350 might be too large for them...
 
Robbie86
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 11:35 pm

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 38):
I've been given the impression that SK's international routes, with a few exceptions (like SEA-CPH) have been...underperforming...as of late. If this is true, and remains so going forward, that might influence SK to go with the 787 - perhaps even in an 8-abreast config - as the A350 might be too large for them...

I wouldn’t say that. The few Intercontinental routes that SK serves are still there because they are the one’s that are making the money. Why else would SK start ARN-PEK and still continue with CPH-PEK? Why would SK be interested in starting ARN-NRT and ARN-BKK and continue flying CPH-NRT and CPH-BKK-SIN?
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22927
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 39):
Why else would SK start ARN-PEK and still continue with CPH-PEK?

Because CPH-PEK is one that makes money and therefore they hope ARN-PEK will, too?

I don't have first-hand evidence of SK's P&L's per route. I'm just noting I have heard scuttlebutt via Swedish newspapers over the past year that SK has been considering going so far as to ending international long-haul service because it wasn't bringing the return across the board that they want.

If those papers were all wrong, or SK's position has improved across the board, good for them. And if has improved so well they need a 777/A350-sized aircraft, even better for them.
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:11 am

How come SK never started ARN-SEA?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24519
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 41):
How come SK never started ARN-SEA?

Why on earth would they? The SEA-CPH flight relies on connections in the first place, and CPH is their primary hub.
a.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3219
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: SAS Considering 787....

Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:14 pm

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 39):
Why else would SK start ARN-PEK and still continue with CPH-PEK?

Because they're afraid of losing more passengers to AY via HEL.

MH
come visit the south pacific

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 817Dreamliiner, Alsatian, Baidu [Spider], Bluebird191, BreninTW, comairguycvg, cvgComair, deltaflyertoo, Kiwirob, Mani87, Miami, qf002, reality, S75752, sassiciai, Yahoo [Bot], zombie and 243 guests