MAH4546
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Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:27 am

Air Plus Comet has announced expansion plans. In addition to adding intra-European flights, the low-cost Spanish airline plans to exand their pressence in Latin America to better compete with Iberia and Air Madrid. Air Plus Comet, now in the process of adding 22 aircraft to their fleet, plans to double their route network to the Americas, adding Mexico City, Miami, Santa Cruz, and Santiago de Chile to Bogota, Lima, New York City, and Santo Domingo.

Article (Spanish):

http://www.hosteltur.com/index.php?lng=es&rel_article=37224
a.
 
spantax
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:29 pm

Hi, Any idea of what kind of aircraft they plan to use for the intraeuropean flights?
A300.10.19.20.21.30.40,AN26,ATR42,AVR146,B717.27.37.47.57.77,B1900,C130,C212,CH47,CRJ200.700,DC9,DHC4,ERJ135.190,F27
 
Summa767
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:14 pm

Thank you for pointing us to this article.
So the new aircraft are the 12 A330s that Marsans have bought, and they mention 10 options, presumibly for the same type. Don't they use MD88s for IntraEurope? I guess they will get some more..At least 1, perhaps..

Something that striked me in the article is that 40 to 45% of Air Comet expenditure is fuel. That is a lot, and due to the gas guzzling fleet they have. No wonder they are desperate to renew! When are the new A330s starting to arrive though?

(slightly offtopic, but I notice that Air Madrid has scheduled a CRJ100 for LGW-MAD, when they had said it's be operated by Embraer 145..)
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:41 pm

Am I correct in my understanding that AR and Air Plus Comet are somehow related? If so, does anyone know the extent of the relationship?

Thanks!!
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:59 pm

Nicko:
They are/where sister companies. So much so, that Air Plus uses the AR livery and logo. AR would code share with Air Plus to many destinations in Europe and Asia.
Things are always changing. The common owner in these two airlines, have sold their share of AR giving the Argentine government a stronger presence and the other associates Pascual/Diaz.
Hope that clears things up!
 
miaskies
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:23 pm

Would Air Plus Comet be serving MIA from MAD? BCN? or ?

It would seem the Spain-Miami market would be a bit saturated..with AA flying to MAD, IB doing double-daily MAD and Air Madrid starting Operations soon from MAD and BCN to MIA.

What do you guys think? or is the Spain-Miami market that big?
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:18 pm

More capacity in SCL-MAD route? That is on top of LAN, IB and Air Madrid (daily)  wideeyed ?? If there is really space for that, than LAN is doing a poor job not serving this potential customers...
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
LVZXV
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:00 am

Word is that Air Plus Comet will soon become just Air Comet with a revised livery. Their relationship with AR is ever poorer, product of the previous CEO Antonio Mata's kleptomania as far as AR's aircraft was concerned. Fuel, aircraft and maintenance is still for the most part provided by AR, while Air Plus in turn do not pay their leasing costs and literally destroy the aircraft they've borrowed from AR. In two years, Air Plus has blown 12 JT9D turbofans, basically every single one on their three-strong 747-200 fleet. AR, operating double that number of aircraft, blew about half that number over a period of 15 years.

Fleet movements have been plentiful in Air Plus this past year. Both of their 737-300s (including the wingletted one) were returned to their lessors a few months ago. One of the three 747-200s (EC-JJG) was recently returned to AR. The three MD-80s will leave the fleet in October 2006, January 2007 and June 2007 if all goes according to plan, and join AU. On more than one occasion, one or two of the three A310s were also scheduled to join AR, so this type also looks unlikely to remain with Air Plus much longer.

However, besides the A330 "order" (it is still an MoU), Air Plus has made few specific references to the aircraft they wish to acquire. The only one that springs to mind is the rumour that they will add the ex-Conviasa A340, though as of yet I don't know if that has been confirmed.

Saludos,

ZXV
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USADreamliner
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 2):
When are the new A330s starting to arrive though?

Apparently by 2008.

Quoting Nickofatlanta (Reply 3):
AR and Air Plus Comet are somehow related?

Both belong to Marsans Group (Spain).

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 4):
AR would code share with Air Plus to many destinations in Europe and Asia.

Just CDG and LGW. I don't think they do anymore to Beijing.


usadreamliner
 
jfk777
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:47 am

This is all rather sad for such a proud Argentine Airline. I went to Buenos Aires last year for a week a had a wonderful time. AR needs a better parent and Lan should take them over a turn EZE into the hub it should be. Flights to South Africa, New Zealand & Australia, JFK, LAX and European cities long ago abandoned could return.
 
carmenlu15
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:58 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
AR needs a better parent and Lan should take them over

 eek  I can see several Argentine a.nutters having a heart attack should that ever happen...

- Carmen
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
LVZXV
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 10):
I can see several Argentine a.nutters having a heart attack should that ever happen...

Me for one!

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
Flights to South Africa, New Zealand & Australia, JFK, LAX and European cities long ago abandoned could return.

AKL and SYD have not been axed, although they are probably on a record low two weekly frequencies.

I agree, AR does need a better parent. Who knows what would have happened if SAS had won the bid for AR in the late '80s instead of IB, for example?

Saludos,

ZXV
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 10):
I can see several Argentine a.nutters having a heart attack should that ever happen...

For sure there would be many! As far as I know, LAN Argentina is doing quite well with a good outlook. However, main problem for all airlines (and for all companies in general) working in Argentina is their (successive) governments inability to face the simple truth: you pay your debts, period. Don't try to outsmart the market and the world, just once and for all confront the problem and live according to your income, and stop intervening markets with a populist intention.
We all miss gold old Argentina, but actually that was only an illusion, paid by all countries who lend money to Argentina (and are now waiting and waiting for a payment). There is so much potential in that country, both in economy and in people, if they would just open themselves to a free market.
Sorry my fellow Argentinian A.neters, but it is just so sad to watch what has been done to your wondeful country, and I can only sincerely hope that you will find sooner than later the right path again.
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
LVZXV
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:02 am

While I disagree that a free market in itself could be the best option for Argentina on the grounds that every economic model that has worked somewhere else has not worked in Argentina, I fully agree with the rest of your comments, and welcome them.  Wink

Basically, Argentina's principal cancer (beyond politics) is la viveza criolla and yes, there will come a day where Argentina will have to face the fact that it can be as idiosyncratic and capricious as it likes, but there are certain rules by which the more serious countries in the world play by, and they are not flexible.

Though in AR's current mess, it is ironically--and not for the first time--the Spanish who can be accused of foul play. I sincerely hope that they put an end to that.

Saludos,

ZXV
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
AR needs a better parent and Lan should take them over a turn EZE into the hub it should be.

 rotfl   rotfl  What on earth did you smoke?! I'm laughing my arse off!

Quoting Acontador (Reply 12):
LAN Argentina is doing quite well with a good outlook

55-60% LF is good?  Yeah sure

Quoting Acontador (Reply 12):
Argentina is their (successive) governments inability to face the simple truth: you pay your debts, period.

And what's this gotta do with anything, get back on your tree - and get back the topic into course, please.  Yeah sure

Quoting Acontador (Reply 12):
Don't try to outsmart the market and the world, just once and for all confront the problem and live according to your income, and stop intervening markets with a populist intention.

I love the way on how you want to put Argentina as a whole into your bag. Get a grip of the reality. A few dumbasses governing, doesn't mean 40 million.

Quoting Acontador (Reply 12):
but actually that was only an illusion, paid by all countries who lend money to Argentina (and are now waiting and waiting for a payment).

Since when has Chile lent money to Argentina?

Quoting Acontador (Reply 12):
if they would just open themselves to a free market.

From the 70s to THE 90S! Have you REALLY read anything about Argentina?

Quoting Acontador (Reply 12):
Sorry my fellow Argentinian A.neters, but it is just so sad to watch what has been done to your wondeful country, and I can only sincerely hope that you will find sooner than later the right path again.

We can agree on that. But... what on earth has THIS got to do with Air Plus Comet?

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11junkie
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ghost77
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:29 am

With what acft type could they possibly land @ MEX?

g77 APM
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MD11junkie
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 15):
With what acft type could they possibly land @ MEX?

I doubt any of the A310s can go there. They can't make it back to EZE non-stop, much less to MAD. It'll probably be the A340. By logic, this expansion can be namely made in the name of Aerolíneas del Sur (SCL), Aerosur (VVI - lease agreements), MIA (own expansion), MEX (own expansion). A7 wants to grow as an LCC (Air Madrid competition). I think they need to get their act straight first.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
Marambio
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:48 am

Just one thing:

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
AR needs a better parent and Lan should take them over a turn EZE into the hub it should be

Over my dead body!


 Wink

Saludos,
Marambio
Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
 
carmenlu15
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting LVZXV (Reply 11):
Me for one!



Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 14):
What on earth did you smoke?! I'm laughing my arse off!



Quoting Marambio (Reply 17):
Over my dead body!

See? I told you!  laughing 
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting Acontador (Reply 12):
For sure there would be many!

Carmen, just quoting myself  biggrin  ...
Just sit back, relax and have a glass of Merlot...enjoy your life!
 
jfk777
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:48 am

MD11 Junkie,


I have been smoking H.Upman cigars made in the Dominican Republic, since you asked. AR's state is bad(that might be kind), I know the people of Argentina are proud so I say this with only the best intentions. AR could learn lots from LAN. AR could become part of a larger Latin American aviation firm, Tam in Brazil would be a good partner. The present situation stinks. I will never forget seeing at EZE in the newer check in area used by the foreign airlines, a plaque to a hunger strike a worker for Austral and AR that lasted two months or about that time. Only in Argentina would they commemorate that.
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 20):
I know the people of Argentina are proud so I say this with only the best intentions. AR could learn lots from LAN.

Yup, learning how to break the law would certainly be useful. Peru and Argentina comes to mind.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 20):
AR could become part of a larger Latin American aviation firm

I think we'll pass on that. Just take a look what happened to Ecuatoriana or even to LADECO. They ceased to exist.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 20):
a plaque to a hunger strike a worker for Austral and AR that lasted two months or about that time.

huh? Where is that? In my Gazillion times in EZE, I really haven't seen that. Please, point me out to that and tell me what does it say in SPANISH.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 20):
AR's state is bad(that might be kind)

It might be bad, but still being bad, AR is the 3rd airline in Latin America. And I think there's no new low, so from here, it's uphill.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 20):
I have been smoking H.Upman cigars made in the Dominican Republic, since you asked.

You might wanna check what they have, because they seem to be troubling your brain functioning  Wink

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11junkie
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TBCITDG
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:01 am

Why must people around here turn a thread about Air Plus into something about the Argentine economy. If you have nothing to say about the original post then don't say anything at all.
We are all well aware that the economic policies that where implemented in the 90's where "suggested" by the IMF. Need I say more?
If this "illusion" that was paid for by other countries exists, then why do people still go there to do business? Why is the economy growing at such momentum? Why did both Argentina and Brasil pay their debt to the IMF?

Back to the thread?

Air Plus needs to thank AR for the aircraft that they have given them (no lease paid). And the one that suffered the most under this "sister ship program" has been AR. Sound familiar ? (IB)
The code share agreements included Zurich did it not?

 Smile
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:15 am

Quoting Acontador (Reply 6):
LAN, IB and Air Madrid (daily)

NM doesn´t fly daily...but i agree thet more flights on that market is kind of an overkill.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
AR needs a better parent and Lan should take them over a turn EZE into the hub it should be.

Wow, i thought your comments didin´t make sense when referring to AV, but from what i have seen in many threads, you and Latin American aviation are not made for each other.

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 21):
It might be bad, but still being bad, AR is the 3rd airline in Latin America. And I think there's no new low, so from here, it's uphill.

Gastón, AR might be the 3rd airline in the southern cone, but I would think TAM, LA (even if it hurts us all), AM and MX are bigger when you count all of Latin America....but i agree AR´s situation is not bad, the airline just needs some more funding and a more efficient management.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Air Plus Comet To MIA, SCL, VVI, MEX

Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:55 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 23):
Gastón, AR might be the 3rd airline in the southern cone, but I would think TAM, LA (even if it hurts us all), AM and MX are bigger when you count all of Latin America....

Dont forget GOL...

Rgs,

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