ManchesterMAN
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No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:57 am

In case people haven't heard, as of today United Airlines is no longer offering economy plus seats to Star Alliance gold and silver card holders and to other full fare paying passengers. The only people permitted to pre-assign seats in Y+ will be United elites, purchasers of the yearly Y+ pass and thoose who pay to upgrade at check in.

Not sure what will happen to those (like myself) who already have Y+ assignments for upcoming flights but whatever the case this will certainly make me think twice before choosing United for transatlantic travel. I may as well fly US Airways and get more legroom.

(sorry if this has already been posted but couldn't find anything  Smile )
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SNATH
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Thread starter):
In case people haven't heard, as of today United Airlines is no longer offering economy plus seats to Star Alliance gold and silver card holders and to other full fare paying passengers. The only people permitted to pre-assign seats in Y+ will be United elites, purchasers of the yearly Y+ pass and thoose who pay to upgrade at check in.

Oh, crap!  Sad That's the only thing I can say...

Tony
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N1120A
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:13 am

Actually, it makes a whole lot of sense, seeing that I, as a United Premier Executive and Star Gold, cannot pre-book the premium economy on BD, SQ, or any other Star carrier. The full-fare thing doesn't make sense, given that those passengers are given S/A upgrades to F as well as Y+ seats.
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ManchesterMAN
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
Actually, it makes a whole lot of sense, seeing that I, as a United Premier Executive and Star Gold, cannot pre-book the premium economy on BD, SQ, or any other Star carrier. The full-fare thing doesn't make sense, given that those passengers are given S/A upgrades to F as well as Y+ seats.

Comparing premium economy on the likes of BD with united E+ is like comparing apples and pears. UA E+ is not a seperate cabin and does not have any seperate booking classes associated, it is just a few seats with some extra leg room. You can not for example book an economy plus ticket, you just book your regular ticket and then hope to assign the good seats then.

I really think UA underestimates the extra revenue they gain from other Star Alliance elites who choose their airline purely for E+. I personally see this as a first step to Y+ becomming a seperate cabin like on BA, VS BD etc., possibly to coincide with the upgrade of their international business class seats.
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potomac
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:22 am

Will this really affect most of the pax who use and appreciate E+? Seems like United elites represent the bulk of those who get E+ and are the most appropriate and deserving to sit there anyway.
 
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Stitch
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:25 am

I can understand UA not giving them to other Star Elites (though I'd do it on a space-available basis day of flight), but to take it away from Y/B fare passengers is insane.
 
LAXintl
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:27 am

United has been quite successful with its E+ experiment and the added revenue it brings in.

One of the concerns has been the 'crowding effect' in the E+ cabin as so many people were eligible. Now by more strictly enforcing access to true UA elites, or those that pay extra can sit in the section, the crowding gets somewhat pushed into the regular economy section.

As N1120 mentions one of the problems of Star and other alliances is the lack of reciprocity amongst each others FF program benefits. It has indeed been a one way street with many Star members enjoying UA benefits, which the UA fliers were denied on other carriers.
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potomac
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:31 am

and i'd be interested to know how many pax who pay Y/B fares are NOT UA elite fliers to begin with...
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:41 am

I think the people it will p!ss off the most are US Airways elites, many of whom will fly UA regularly. I only take the odd UA flight as BD gold and I'm not very happy. I understand they were giving something for nothing but its like giving a kid a candy bar, letting them take a bite and then taking it away from them.
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fbgdavidson
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:46 am

As a non-UA *G myself it is a bit of a blow. I used E+ a few years ago on a couple of transatlantics and it made the journey a lot more comfortable, and I did pick it over BA and VS because of E+. I always knew in the back of my mind that if I needed to travel back to the UK at short notice I could rely on UA for a reasonably comfortable ride home in the cheap seats.

Personally my view is that there are more E+ seats than *G, *S, E+ Access and Y/B fares on each flight (especially in larger longhaul cabins) and that any of the previously allowed groups will probably be accommodated in the better cabin anyway. You'd be surprised at how small the elite population is percentage wise.

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 3):
Comparing premium economy on the likes of BD with united E+ is like comparing apples and pears. UA E+ is not a seperate cabin and does not have any seperate booking classes associated, it is just a few seats with some extra leg room.

Really? I thought BD PE was not much different to UA E+ with the same seat and service with just a few extra inches of legroom. To compare UA E+ with BA WT+ or VS PE is closer to 'apples and pears'.
"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 9):
Personally my view is that there are more E+ seats than *G, *S, E+ Access and Y/B fares on each flight (especially in larger longhaul cabins) and that any of the previously allowed groups will probably be accommodated in the better cabin anyway. You'd be surprised at how small the elite population is percentage wise.

My thought too, although these are more likely to be the middle seats the UA elites didn't want.

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 9):
Really? I thought BD PE was not much different to UA E+ with the same seat and service with just a few extra inches of legroom. To compare UA E+ with BA WT+ or VS PE is closer to 'apples and pears'.

Well it is a seperate cabin and is sold as such in terms of fares. It is not the best premium ecfonomy although it does offer 2-4" more legroom than UA E+ (38") and you do get extras over economy too such as free booze (not available in Y from MAN), power ports in seats, expanded menu and wines and welcome drink on boarding. It also comes with lounge access (atleast at the UK end).
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N1120A
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 3):
Comparing premium economy on the likes of BD with united E+ is like comparing apples and pears. UA E+ is not a seperate cabin and does not have any seperate booking classes associated, it is just a few seats with some extra leg room. You can not for example book an economy plus ticket, you just book your regular ticket and then hope to assign the good seats then.

Oh really?

premium economy (short haul)

a fully flexible fare with service benefits

priority seating
advance seat selection at time of booking*
bmi business lounge access, where available
priority check-in (priority check-in desks and self check-in with bag drop options for those with baggage to be checked-in)
inflight menu for purchase of refreshments**
all passengers receive a complimentary newspaper
priority baggage delivery
fare is eligible for double diamond club miles
economy

lowest available fare when tiny fares are not available, offering greater flexibility

automated check-in using self check-in, with bag drop options for those with baggage to be checked-in
advance seat selection at check-in
inflight menu for purchase of refreshments**
all passengers receive a complimentary newspaper
fare is eligible for diamond club miles
tiny

our lowest available fare


automated check-in using self check-in, with bag drop options for those with baggage to be checked-in
inflight menu for purchase of refreshments**
all passengers receive a complimentary newspaper
fare is eligible for diamond club miles

That looks like it might not even be as good as Y+

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6):
It has indeed been a one way street with many Star members enjoying UA benefits, which the UA fliers were denied on other carriers.

I have even had to argue with US reservations agents about my ability to pre-book an exit row and can never get the exit row over the internet.
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m180up
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
I have even had to argue with US reservations agents about my ability to pre-book an exit row and can never get the exit row over the internet.

Well the reservation agents should and must give you an exit row or preferred seating if you are an elite in US or *A, over the Internet we can't even recognize frequent flyer numbers of other airlines over the website, that is why you won't be able to preasign an exit row, since the website won't "know" you are an elite member, if you are having problems booking a preferred seat in US just ask for a supervisor, the lack of quality and knowledge of some agents is something I know many passengers complaint about, so ask for a supervisor or a lead agent if you feel the agent is being no help at all.
Just my  twocents , because everytime I receive an elite member from any of the *A members they receive all of the benefits they are entitled to when I receive the call but I know some agents don't honor those benefits.
Werner from SAL
 
N1120A
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting M180up (Reply 12):
over the Internet we can't even recognize frequent flyer numbers of other airlines over the website, that is why you won't be able to preasign an exit row, since the website won't "know" you are an elite member, if you are having problems booking a preferred seat in US just ask for a supervisor, the lack of quality and knowledge of some agents is something I know many passengers complaint about, so ask for a supervisor or a lead agent if you feel the agent is being no help at all.

The over the internet bookings I am talking about were from United.com, which requests the seats from US for me. As far as asking for a supervisor goes, I had to argue with her too. Luckily the MSY US staff are very nice (actually nicer than United's own) and rectified my having to sit in a middle seat on a flight by giving me a free upgrade to F on another.
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ManchesterMAN
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Oh really?

premium economy (short haul)

I was of course referring to BD long haul.

Forgot about short haul which is a complete joke. However all that short haul "premium economy" is on BD is a marketing term for their most expensive/flexible fares, like "tiny" refers to the cheapest fares. There is nothing extra once you step on board the aircraft.
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m180up
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):

Mmm, too bad you had that experience, but I'm glad the ground staff helped you, if you ever need something related to US, just PM and let me know, I'll help you out if possible.  Smile
Werner from SAL
 
N1120A
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 14):
I was of course referring to BD long haul.

Forgot about short haul which is a complete joke. However all that short haul "premium economy" is on BD is a marketing term for their most expensive/flexible fares, like "tiny" refers to the cheapest fares. There is nothing extra once you step on board the aircraft.

Economy Plus is offered on all United mainline and Ted flights and a growing number of Express flights.

As far as long haul goes, you get the same food and IFE in both Y+ and PE as in regular Y-. The only real difference is the free alcohol (which UA offers in all cabins on Pacific flights) and the power port
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AeroWesty
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:29 am

Is the reason UA is doing this because E+ was getting too full with non-UA elite members, or is it just a way of extracting a bit more revenue out of the E+ section? Perhaps a combination of both?

It would seem unwise to charge full-fare Y passengers an extra fee to sit in E+, as they're already paying a hefty sum for the flight in most cases.
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Stitch
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
I have even had to argue with US reservations agents about my ability to pre-book an exit row and can never get the exit row over the internet.

Interesting. I had to book a US metal flight with US flight numbers on united.com for SEA-PHL and PHL-SEA and it let me book the Exit Row both ways (as a United Premier Executive / Star Gold). I could even use US online checkin and it kept the seat assignments.  thumbsup 
 
N1120A
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
Interesting. I had to book a US metal flight with US flight numbers on united.com for SEA-PHL and PHL-SEA and it let me book the Exit Row both ways (as a United Premier Executive / Star Gold). I could even use US online checkin and it kept the seat assignments.

Odd, because I did the exact same thing and ended up with no seat on the flights
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potomac
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:41 am

my guess is that this move is aimed at keeping UNITED elites happy, based on the fact that it's been harder for them to secure E+, and to generate a little more revenue from non-United elites who want E+ but dont automatically get it. i appreciate the fact that they are taking away a perk that full-fare, non-elite pax and other star gold and silver members have previously been able to enjoy. but for all the ranting on this forum about airlines making foolish decisions about recklessly spending or not saving cash (especially against united), it seems prudent for an airline to impose some restrictions on its perks - however limited they may be - and to do things that keep their elite travelers satisifed with distinct benefits.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
Actually, it makes a whole lot of sense, seeing that I, as a United Premier Executive and Star Gold, cannot pre-book the premium economy on BD, SQ, or any other Star carrier.



Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 9):
Really? I thought BD PE was not much different to UA E+ with the same seat and service with just a few extra inches of legroom. To compare UA E+ with BA WT+ or VS PE is closer to 'apples and pears'.

As stated, BD, SQ etc offer a real Premium Economy service i.e. a seperate cabin that can be booked in specific dedicated fare classes. UA E+ is just a comfy bit at the front of the cabin.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Oh really?

premium economy (short haul)

BD short haul economy is not a proper Premium product (in fact, it barely qualifies as economy class !)  Smile
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N1120A
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 21):
As stated, BD, SQ etc offer a real Premium Economy service i.e. a seperate cabin that can be booked in specific dedicated fare classes. UA E+ is just a comfy bit at the front of the cabin.

The thing is, the service isn't much different from what you get for free or a very nominal fee in Y+. Further, full fare Y was a de facto Economy Plus fare class up till this point.
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Stitch
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Potomac (Reply 20):
my guess is that this move is aimed at keeping UNITED elites happy, based on the fact that it's been harder for them to secure E+...

It's mostly more that elites want blocked middles in E+ by keeping non-elites out than that they can't get in.

Sure I have seen flights were 25% or more of the cabin were UA or Star Elites, but they should still all fit in F and Y+.  Smile

Quote:
...and to generate a little more revenue from non-United elites who want E+ but dont automatically get it.

And I am okay with that. UA has said they're making tens of millions from Economy Plus and Business Class "buy-up offers" at booking, check-in, and at the gate. Buy when you buy a Y or B fare, it's usually because you have no choice in the timeframe you bought it. Now, you'll probably stick with your preferred carrier where possible (due to being able to get upgrades or bonus miles), but if you fly DL and your choices are UA and AA, UA offering E+ for that fare probably won them some business...
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Further, full fare Y was a de facto Economy Plus fare class up till this point.

That is what I can't understand about this decision. OK fine don't let the *A elite who paid £300 for his LHR-LAX ticket sit in E+ but to block those who pay big $$ for full fare economy is strange. It is these people who make UA their money.
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FiveMileFinal
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:02 am

Hm, not sure how I feel about this. Obviously I'm not affected by it as I'm PE, but if I were * Gold on another airline it'd probably make me mad. As it stands if I'm really honest with myself, Y+ doesn't truly offer that much more over Y in my experience (having done several trans-atlantic commutes over the last 18 months) When I book my tickets to London later this week I'm booking Y+, but when I get to the check-in counter, I'm gonna check out what's going on up in C, and if the price is right, I'll put down the $$$$.

The thing about Y+ on United is knowing where to sit based on what plane you get, and hoping that you can book the seat before everyone else does. For example, if you're riding on one of their international 777s and can snag 17A-J or 30A, B, H or J, you're sitting pretty, but if you don't, it's just an ordinary seat.
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N1120A
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 24):
sit in E+ but to block those who pay big $$ for full fare economy is strange. It is these people who make UA their money.

That is what is also the hang up for the rest of us, though I think United may refine that policy at some point.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
potomac
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:16 am

again, i'd be curious to see what percentage of full-fare pax are NOT UA elite members, and how much revenue that group represents compared to UAs elites. this group - however large or small - certainly makes money for united, but i just don't see them being THE revenue stream.

i mean if an non-UA pax is going to buy a full-fare ticket on UA, chances are it's bcs they couldn't do so on their preferred carrier, for whatever reason. so then how much of an incentive would E+ be to this demographic if, under normal conditions, that pax would have gone with their preferred carrier anyway? and if they do buy full fare on UA often enough, aren't they closer to being among UA elites?

i know i'm simplifying it a bit, but i think UA had to make a decision to 'manage' E+ in a way that would keep elites happy, and unfortunately it came at the expense of someone else. i trust they assessed the financial considerations of this move a lot more than we are able to do.
 
UN_B732
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:26 am

NOt allowing E+ for Y/B fares is abusrd -- one of the reasons I chose UA Y/B fares for my father as a non-elite was thanks to E+ -- now it's gone.
Way to alienate high value pax United.
-A
What now?
 
daron4000
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:35 am

While it is a "blow" to some, I think that anyone who is a star gold or pays Y/B fares anyways can spend the $299 to buy economy plus access for a year. In fact, it might be cheaper to do that and then buy a heavily discounted fare and still get into the E+ cabin, as well as retaining the access for an entire year. Same goes for Star golds, who unless are with US, are probably on an expensive Transatlantic/Transpacific itenerary. Just my idea
 
UAL777UK
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:06 am

Did I hear right that UA makes something in the region $50m on upgrades (at the gate) for Y+??
 
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Stitch
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 29):
While it is a "blow" to some, I think that anyone who is a star gold or pays Y/B fares anyways can spend the $299 to buy economy plus access for a year...

While that is a valid option for Star Golds and Star Silvers, I don't believe it is for Y fares, since those folks generally are forced to buy those fares because of their near-term purchasing window. In such cases, convenience counts the most, I am sure, but all things being equal, UA probably earned a few more of them thanks to offering greater pitch.

I just don't see most folks buying an E+ Access Pass in case they have to buy a Y seat and UA happens to be equally convenient.  Smile
 
zvezda
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:14 am

It's difficult to believe that UA won't be giving Y+ seats to full Y/B fare pax. That would be insane.

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 9):
Personally my view is that there are more E+ seats than *G, *S, E+ Access and Y/B fares on each flight (especially in larger longhaul cabins) and that any of the previously allowed groups will probably be accommodated in the better cabin anyway. You'd be surprised at how small the elite population is percentage wise.

I've counted 20 1Ks on a B767-200.
 
MSY-MSP
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:43 am

Well, I guess the real issue with this restriction is on international flights, and not domestic. Domestically speaking the plane has X-number of seats and of those seats Y-number are E+ seats and the rest are E- seats. No other domestic US airline has E+, so there is no detriment to not providing the seats to Y/B pax or other *G members ahead of time. I am willing to bet that those persons will be given priority to the E+ seats once the E- seats are "full". Those paying Y/B are faced with the following issue. They can take their money over to any other airline and get the standard E seat. No benefit accorded them because of their Y/B ticket as it relates to seating. Sure other offer priority features because of fare, but it doesn't translate into a "better" seat. So the choice is a chance at an E+ seat on UA or a gaurenteed E seat on any other domestic airline. The same issue is there for OA *G/*S members, except they are limited to UA or US. So at least from my perspective there is no real damage done.

On the international side, there is some damage that may be done. If we consider E+ a premium economy section then there is some competition, but not much. As far as I can see the only E+ like competition UA has is on the routes to LHR from both VS and BA. The other airlines that have a premium economy product don't directly compete with UA on routes. BD doesn't compete with UA to MAN, and SK doesn't compete with UA to CPH. SQ partialy competes with UA to SIN, but SQ's product is a specialized product on the non-stop flights. Everybody else UA competes with offers only a standard E product. So again UA is only losing any competitveness from Y/B passengers on flights to and from LHR, and even then the price point may still favor UA. As for *G none of the airlines who have premium economy offer it gratis to *G's because they are *G. *G may have a better chance of ending up there, but it is not as likely.

As for leaving the comp access to UA Premier, Exec, 1K and E+ pass, the incentive is necessary as a competive tool. As UA doesn't have comp upgrades for elite, this is a bene that is valuable and keeps the elites with UA. Without it, the incentive to fly UA is gone.

Just some opinions.
 
vermeer
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:39 am

I don't like this at all.
I am LH *G living in the US and I do use frequently UA inside the country.
One of the reasons was the E+ section which gave me more legroom.
This is just a small but relevant perk especially on transcontinental routes when I don't want to upgrade with mileage to C.
It is really alienating me because I have no other relevant benefit as an "elite" flyer who shells out a lot of money on airfares all year round.

Laxintl, I really don't see which other "perks" UA gives me...shall we start talking about the the fact that UA *G members crowd the LH Senator lounges because of the mediocrity of their own Red Carpet Lounges?

Greetings
 
FCYTravis
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:48 am

This is one US Platinum Preferred member who spent several thousand dollars on United this year thanks to my ability to access Economy Plus. Next year, they won't be getting a dime.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
potomac
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:12 am

so FCYTravis, are you saying that you will go back to USAirways guaranteed 31" pitch and presumably less convenient routings, and give up a chance to still get E+, just on principle alone? bear in mind that while this UA decision says that full fare pax won't get pre-assignedE+, there's nothing that says they won't get those seats period.

oh, the drama! can we just take this for what it is? since the official details of this supposed announcement haven't been listed, we're just reacting to what was originally stated in the first post, which isn't much. we have no idea what the specific provisions are.

also, let's not forget that if this is all valid, UA clearly faced a decision where they had to limit PRE-ASSIGNING E+ for whatever reason. what other suggestions do people have that would keep UA elites fast, still allow some sort of revenue stream, and overall make flying on UA more appealing than other carriers?
 
LAXintl
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting Vermeer (Reply 34):
Laxintl, I really don't see which other "perks" UA gives me...shall we start talking about the the fact that UA *G members crowd the LH Senator lounges because of the mediocrity of their own Red Carpet Lounges?

Since you brought up Red Carpet lounges, that is a paid membership club for UA fliers domestically while its use is available free to Star Gold. (excluding US Air). You can be the top UA FF and they wont let you in unless if you have a membership.

What I meant by "perks" is that UA is disproportionately affected by providing benefits to other airline partners in such a large number as compared to its own fliers using similar benefits at other carriers.
Whether this is use of RCC facilities, E+ seating, priority lines at the airport, extra baggage allowance has a cost implication to United.

This also becomes an issue with disproportionate amounts of FF award redemption's amongst alliance partners. This was one reason for instance, why Singapore Airlines pared back availability a few years ago, as seats we being occupied by too high of a percentage of intra-alliance passengers which provided a low value to Singapore versus selling the seat directly. Similarly a reason why Mexicana dropped of Star was its perceived one-way relationship whom felt swapped with alliance passengers with very few of its fliers going the other way using the alliance.

Alliance's can be good for airlines, however they must be managed carefully to provide and optimal balance between their cost and added revenue benefits.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SNATH
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:29 am

OK, I now have a bit more time to write a more extensive post...

First, I'm *A Gold (with Air Canada) living in the US and I'm personally totally gutted with these news. Two days ago I found out that the company I work for have changed our preferred carrier from AA to UA/US. Finally! After enduring AA's "service", if you can call it that, for four years I was actually very happy to see us move back to UA. Not after I heard that I cannot get on E+ any more. Be careful what you wish for...

Quoting Vermeer (Reply 34):
This is just a small but relevant perk especially on transcontinental routes when I don't want to upgrade with mileage to C.

I'm on the same boat with you buddy!

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
but to take it away from Y/B fare passengers is insane.



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17):
It would seem unwise to charge full-fare Y passengers an extra fee to sit in E+, as they're already paying a hefty sum for the flight in most cases.

I couldn't agree more with you guys. UA are shooting themselves in the foot with this decision, IMHO at least.

Quoting M180up (Reply 12):
since the website won't "know" you are an elite member

Are you sure? When I booked a trip on UA online last year I put in my AC FF number and I was automatically allocated E+ seats.

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 29):
I think that anyone who is a star gold or pays Y/B fares anyways can spend the $299 to buy economy plus access for a year.

Yes, but... from UA's WWW site:

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6722,51331,00.html

Economy Plus Access is a new program from United that allows Mileage Plus general members to sit in our award-winning Economy Plus cabin, ...

and

Do I have to be a Mileage Plus member to give Economy Plus Access? Yes, you must have a Mileage Plus number.

So, did I read this right? As a *A Gold, not only I'm not allowed to seat on E+ any more, but I'm also prevented from buying E+ access, given that I don't want to start a Mileage Plus account, I want to stick getting miles on my AC account. Does this make any sense to anyone?

Tony
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SNATH
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:33 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 37):
Since you brought up Red Carpet lounges, that is a paid membership club for UA fliers domestically while its use is available free to Star Gold. (excluding US Air). You can be the top UA FF and they wont let you in unless if you have a membership.

You are right, I've always found this a bit weird. However, do keep in mind that *A carriers do accept UA *A Gold members in their lounges... so IMHO it's only fair that UA does the same.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
vermeer
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 37):
Since you brought up Red Carpet lounges, that is a paid membership club for UA fliers domestically while its use is available free to Star Gold. (excluding US Air). You can be the top UA FF and they wont let you in unless if you have a membership.

I don't think it is relvant that it is a paid membership club. Lounge access is a part of the agreement that the alliance airlines have, it is reciprocal, therefore UA HAD to open up theirs. To use your words there is a"disproportionate" amount of UA *G members ( shall we rember that their threshold to be gold is lower than for other carriers?) and they all flock to the other memebers' lounges. This is a privilege to which they are entlitled and savily they choosethe better lounges ( not theirs clearly...)

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 37):
What I meant by "perks" is that UA is disproportionately affected by providing benefits to other airline partners in such a large number as compared to its own fliers using similar benefits at other carriers.
Whether this is use of RCC facilities, E+ seating, priority lines at the airport, extra baggage allowance has a cost implication to United.

UA is one of the biggest carriers in the world - 66.7 million passengers in 2005 ( bureau of transportation statistics).
Do you know how many UA status passengers the other airlines have to accomodate? And how much do they "cost"? So the "cost" is bigger for the other partners. Do you think that ZA's status passengers for example are more than the UA ones?

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 37):
This also becomes an issue with disproportionate amounts of FF award redemption's amongst alliance partners.

Oh,please. Just look at the systemwide upgrades UA so "generously" distributes to its top passengers. Many of them end up swapped on LH flights.
I fly once a month ( if not more) to Europe and I see a constant flow of UA upgs on LH desks and check-ins.
One silly result of this is that LH elite pax don't get bumped to C or F that often because of excellent yield revenue management but also because they upgrade pax "burning" their vouchers rather that upgrade their own status for free.

If I am getting too off topic let's switch to another post

Regards.
 
zvezda
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:11 pm

Quoting MSY-MSP (Reply 33):
No other domestic US airline has E+, so there is no detriment to not providing the seats to Y/B pax or other *G members ahead of time. I am willing to bet that those persons will be given priority to the E+ seats once the E- seats are "full". Those paying Y/B are faced with the following issue. They can take their money over to any other airline and get the standard E seat. No benefit accorded them because of their Y/B ticket as it relates to seating. Sure other offer priority features because of fare, but it doesn't translate into a "better" seat. So the choice is a chance at an E+ seat on UA or a gaurenteed E seat on any other domestic airline. The same issue is there for OA *G/*S members, except they are limited to UA or US. So at least from my perspective there is no real damage done.

The implicit assumption you make here is that all airlines offer otherwise equal services. By offering the certainty of Y+ to full Y/B passengers, UA can take high-yield passengers through their hubs who might have flown nonstop on another airline. Also, UA can win some passengers whose schedule preference would have been for a flight on another airline. The smart thing to do would be to offer Y+ to full Y/B passengers ahead of their own 1Ks. Fare paid should always trump FF status.
 
UAPremierGuy
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:39 pm

Um, this is a great discussion and everything, but have we even confirmed this to be true? What is the source? Where is the article? Personally, as a Premier (elite) with UA, I am happy with this decision...here's hoping for actually having that blocked-off middle-seat!
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aerorobnz
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:18 pm

It makes heaps of sense and is a good step for UA. NZ doesn't assign seats in Y+ for Y ticketed frequent flyers either. It dilutes the value of the premium seats by just putting them in for no cost, even for Golds & Gold Elites (of which there are many these days).
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
N1120A
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:55 pm

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 42):
here's hoping for actually having that blocked-off middle-seat!

If the flight is full, you are still going to get Stan from Sheboygan sitting inbetween you and Karl 1K.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
FCYTravis
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:39 pm

Quoting Potomac (Reply 36):
so FCYTravis, are you saying that you will go back to USAirways guaranteed 31" pitch and presumably less convenient routings, and give up a chance to still get E+, just on principle alone?

Hardly. I'm saying that I'll go back to nearly-guaranteed comped upgrades to US Airways domestic First Class, with 36"-38" pitch, leather seating, free booze, the snack basket and meals on mid/transcons. Oh, and don't forget the power ports on US East Airbuses - even in coach! US F is far from the world's greatest F product but it's still better than E+.

As a Platinum Preferred, I am 7-for-7 on space-available upgrades and on the year as a Gold and Platinum I'm something like 29-for-35. I haven't sat in a US Airways mainline coach seat since April. I flew UA on several transcon round trips to spice things up. UA E+ was an acceptable substitute - a solid product that I didn't mind flying at all, so UA won some of my paid fares. But if I don't get E+, I'm not going to waste my cash on a coach product that's no better than that offered by USAir - not when I have a 90-100 percent chance of sitting up front on US metal. That's several thousand dollars in revenue that United got in '06 that they won't get in '07. Just that simple.

As for convenience, it's really a wash. Out of SFO, UA has virtually nothing non-stop that helps me get where I need to go, so I have to connect somewhere. The routings through PHL, PHX and CLT aren't really less convenient than going through ORD or IAD. Plus, more connections equals more EQMs.  Smile

[Edited 2006-09-14 09:42:09]
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
m180up
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:02 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 38):
Are you sure? When I booked a trip on UA online last year I put in my AC FF number and I was automatically allocated E+ seats.

I was talking about US.com, the website I provide support of...

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 42):
Um, this is a great discussion and everything, but have we even confirmed this to be true? What is the source? Where is the article? Personally, as a Premier (elite) with UA, I am happy with this decision...here's hoping for actually having that blocked-off middle-seat!

well as a travel agent support agent also I confirmed this today, I had a chairmans preferred of US traveling in a codeshare with UA in a full fare in a transatlantic flight, normally we could access the seat map in UA's flight and assign an E+ seat, now that access is blocked, the travel agent told me UA told her that they don't assign those seats to *A gold members anymore.
Werner from SAL
 
uaord2000
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:09 pm

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 3):
I personally see this as a first step to Y+ becomming a seperate cabin like on BA, VS BD etc., possibly to coincide with the upgrade of their international business class seats.

Bingo! I think UA will upgrade seats in Economy Plus to coincide with the Intl upgrade. Not quite as extensive as BA or the likes but mainly a much more comfy seat.

-J
 
N1120A
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:59 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 41):
The smart thing to do would be to offer Y+ to full Y/B passengers ahead of their own 1Ks. Fare paid should always trump FF status.

Ok, so a person who flies once a year on a full Y fare should trump someone who slugs away 100,000+ simply because they bought a Q fare (not a bucket, not full fare) 2 weeks early? Yeah, that is a really good way to engender loyalty. You really need to learn about balance.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
zvezda
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RE: No More E+ On UA (for *G/S And Full Fare Pax)

Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:27 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 48):
Ok, so a person who flies once a year on a full Y fare should trump someone who slugs away 100,000+ simply because they bought a Q fare (not a bucket, not full fare) 2 weeks early?

Yes, absolutely. Get what you pay for. Doing otherwise just discourages people from paying for the higher fares.

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