phoenixflyer
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Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:47 am

While doing some research for a trip next summer, I decided to find out which airport would be the cheapest to fly into from NYC. I figured it would be either London or Paris whish turned out to be true. I assume because of the vast array of airlines that fly between NYC and LON. But what really surprised me was how much more expensive Athens was in comparison to other major European cities. It was over $400 more than London and $200 more than the next most expensive, Barcelona. What makes AHN so expensive?

[Edited 2006-09-14 20:05:34]
 
N1120A
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RE: Why Is AHN So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Phoenixflyer (Thread starter):
What makes AHN so expensive?

I take it you mean ATH? One of the big reasons is that it is physically farther from the US than other major European capitals. Second, there is not much competition from US carriers, allowing European carriers to carry single or double connects for a higher price.
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RJNUT
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RE: Why Is AHN So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:54 am

Ummhhh! Like its further, DUH!

and they don't ever run specials this early in advance!!!
Be patient!
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Why Is AHN So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:00 am

Well, I live in Athens, Georgia, USA (AHN) and it too is very expensive to fly into and out of but then again there is only one destination and one airline - AHN-CLT and it USAir.

Now, that being said I assume also that you were meaning Athens, Greece. Obviously the biggest reason is that it significantly further from JFK than LHR/LGW or CDG. More mileage, more fuel, more time, etc.. Same as getting in your car and asking yourself "Why do I use more gas to go from NYC to LAX than NYC to Newark?" Just think about it!?!?! Duuhhh!
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phoenixflyer
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RE: Why Is AHN So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Rjnut (Reply 2):
Ummhhh! Like its further, DUH!

and they don't ever run specials this early in advance!!!
Be patient!

i wasnt looking for specials. just a price comparison. i did a search from NYC to 14 different cities all for the same random day so i get an impression on how the prices compare. Lisbon is closer than London but its more expensive. Just because its further away doesnt mean its more expensive. I figured its because of competition issues but I thought I would ask anyways here incase there was some sort of other restriction that causes it to be a stand out.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:23 am

Some of the answers you're looking for are in this recent thread:
Why No FR To Greece? (by Ba757gla Aug 31 2006 in Civil Aviation)

It's a combination of several factors, including cost of doing business at ATH, but each airline approaches their solution to that in different ways.
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Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:49 am

Phoenixflyer:
I flew Athens to New York on Olympic Airways last June. Yes it was more expensive than connecting through Frankfurt or London oh Lufthansa or Virgin Atlantic.
The service was top-notch and I was glad that I paid an extra $150 on Olympic instead of the other carriers.  yes 
It was the best coach experience I've had in well over 20 years.
Olympic coach rivals United business class.


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DeltaDAWG:
When I was in Athens, Greece, I did meet a couple from Athens, Georgia.
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N1120A
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
The service was top-notch and I was glad that I paid an extra $150 on Olympic instead of the other carriers.
It was the best coach experience I've had in well over 20 years.
Olympic coach rivals United business class.

Not for people who die back there.
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Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Not for people who die back there.

 confused 
Bring back the Concorde
 
ltbewr
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:01 am

There is much greater capacity and thus competition for major hubs like FRA, LHR, ORD than smaller cities in the EU like ATH. Some smaller EU cities have fewer airlines or smaller aircraft serving them non-stop from points like NY City. Distance is also a factor of course.
As to Greece and NY City area, you have a large population of people of Greek birth or ancestry there, so you have a special local demand, with preference for Olympic airways by some, thus leading to higher fares.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):
with preference for Olympic airways by some, thus leading to higher fares.

I guess I am partially to blame for that.  Sad
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goldorak
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting Phoenixflyer (Reply 4):
Just because its further away doesnt mean its more expensive

when you have a short difference in distance, yes you're right (e.g. JFK-LHR or JFK-CDG would be approx. the same price) but ATH is really much further so in this case, it's very basic : it's further so it's more expensive
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Goldorak:
when you have a short difference in distance, yes you're right (e.g. JFK-LHR or JFK-CDG would be approx. the same price) but ATH is really much further so in this case, it's very basic : it's further so it's more expensive

Well if that's the case why is LIS so expensive, or FRA expensive non-stop. Its really the airlines that ca dictate price and if no competition is onboard feel free to try and get a monopoly on the routes. OA will (and should) be gone in a year. LH has a monopoly in that region with all the airlines struggling. BA is already a high priced airlines. ATH is getting the worst of all three worlds. Pretty sad for such a wonderfully new airport.
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Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 12):
Pretty sad for such a wonderfully new airport.

I agree that ATH is an amazing airport but to OA "should be gone" is wrong. It was a wonderful airline to fly on. Both the ATR-72 from Istanbul and the A340 to JFK were great flights with excellent service.
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2travel2know
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:05 am

Doesn't the ATH high operating costs for airlines has a direct link with the 2004 Athens Olympics?
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TurkishWings
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:34 pm

Lets also not forget that ATH airport taxes are among the highest in the world. I once took an award ticket on TK for IST-ATH-IST and of course I had to pay taxes only. I remember paying about 130 USD if my memory serves me right.
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olympic707
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:47 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):

I flew Athens to New York on Olympic Airways last June. Yes it was more expensive than connecting through Frankfurt or London oh Lufthansa or Virgin Atlantic.
The service was top-notch and I was glad that I paid an extra $150 on Olympic instead of the other carriers.   
It was the best coach experience I've had in well over 20 years.
Olympic coach rivals United business class.

I've been telling people that OA is top notch for years.  yes 
OA ticket prices are not that much more, most of the time OA is cheaper.
When I fly to Greece, I insist on flying with OA, good food, safety record, world class pilots and maintenance staff.  bigthumbsup 

Yanni
Fly Olympic - Aviation GREEK STYLE!
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:54 pm

TurkishWings:
That is to pay for the DJ at the airport. Big grin
I kid you not, when I arrived at IST, I heard over the loudspeaker 'Theme From Superfly ' by Curtis Mayfeild.
It was as if the people of Greece were expecting me.  Smile

I must say, ATH has the coolest modern airport!  yes 
My flight from Istanbul on Olympic Airways ATR-72 arrived in to Athens at midnight and the subway is no longer running at that time.
So I crashed overnight in the terminal before I checked in to a hotel near Victoria square in Athens.

After dark, ATH turns in to one large Hostel with backpackers setting up there inflatable mattresses and sleeping bags. Part of the reason for this is because the ferries from the Greek islands are notoriously late so many travellers add a 1 day cushion before there flight out of Greece. Therefore, many hang sleep overnight at ATH.

ATH also has the best selection of Herpa Wings model aircraft. I picked up a Silk Way IL-76 Cargo of Azerbadzian while staying overnight in ATH.
Bring back the Concorde
 
olympic707
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:10 pm

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 12):
OA will (and should) be gone in a year.

 Confused
Fly Olympic - Aviation GREEK STYLE!
 
Joost
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:30 pm

Quoting Olympic707 (Reply 18):
OA will (and should) be gone in a year.

Confused

Olympic Airlines is effectively already bankrupt. They are reorganizing and restarting all the time, but in effect the Greek government and thus the taxpayer pays for Olympic Airlines. It also creates an unfair competition with other carriers that are run privately and operate in the same environment: Europe.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:25 pm

Quick question,
Can Greece opt out of the EU?
I put my money where my mouth is and paid the extra $$$ money to fly on Olympic instead of Lufthansa, BA, Virgin and Air France. I've flown on the others and wanted to fly on OA for a change.
To be honest, I'll still pay more to fly on OA if I am flying to Greece.
If the Geek government wants to bail out Olympic, they should have that right.
Of the Greek locals, none are happy about joining the EU.
As I have said almost a dozen times before, it's mindboggling to hear of Olympic's finacial troubles. As a customer, I didn't see/feel any sort of signs of an airline in trouble. In fact, OA is the best EU member airline I have flown in over 20 years.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Joost
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:55 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Can Greece opt out of the EU?

Although I assume that somewhere in the massive EU regulations there should be a way out, practically it is completely impossible. There is so much involved in the EU membership that they have since 1981 (the Euro, free trade, etc, etc, etc) that quitting the European Union is an impossible operation.

By the way, don't forget Greece is a net receiver of the EU: they get more money than they pay; net contributors are amongst others the UK (largest absolute contributor), the Netherlands (largest contributor per capita), France, Germany, Denmark. Opting out of the EU would cost them a lot of money.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
If the Geek government wants to bail out Olympic, they should have that right.

No, they shouldn't, or they shouldn't be in the European Open Skies agreement. Within the open skies, every EU airline is allowed to operate everywhere as much as they want. Now let's take AMS-ATH. OA operates this route with government support, KLM has to do without government funds. It is an unfair competition. In restricted aviation environments it is not a problem (that's why the restrictions are there in the first place!) but in an open skies, everybody should be equal. It is one of the basics of an open and free market. (the same is for Alitalia, by the way).

By the way 2; Greece already has an advantageous position as the Greek Islands are excluded from the EU open skies agreement, so OA here has hardly any competition. So OA could fly MXP-PMO but AZ is not allowed to operate ATH-HER.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Of the Greek locals, none are happy about joining the EU.

Ehm, did you talk to all the Greek locals? And you are talking about joining 25 years ago?
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:11 pm

Joost:
OK I see you point. But more importantly, can I get two lamb or pork gyros and a liter of beer for 4 Euros throughout the EU?
If not, my alliegence is with Greece! Big grin
Bring back the Concorde
 
lewis
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:27 pm

It is true that a flight to ATH from the US would cost you more because, as other members said, flight time is much longer. For example, ATH-CDG or ATH-LHR are around 3 hr flights so there is a significant difference in distance and flight time.

The airport is also fairly new and they are trying to cover its costs very agressively with high charges. When the airport first opened, I believe that charges for airlines were much higher than today's.

And of course, there is not much competition to the ATH market, especially from the US. So I guess this is why ticket prices would be much higher than other, more popular European destinations

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Can Greece opt out of the EU?

Not really, we're too much involved in the EU now to just back up.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Of the Greek locals, none are happy about joining the EU.

As a Greek citizen I am happy about the EU; free trade and financial support have helped the country grow significantly.

On the other hand, many people are not happy about the Euro. After its introduction life became much more expensive than before.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting Lewis (Reply 23):
On the other hand, many people are not happy about the Euro. After its introduction life became much more expensive than before.

That is consistant with what I have heard from the locals.

I am sure that I am the only Airliners.net member to have the theme of there username played as they entered the airport terminal .  

ATH is still one of the coolest airports and Olympic Airways is a top-notch, world-class airline!   

[Edited 2006-09-15 15:04:24]

[Edited 2006-09-15 15:05:30]
Bring back the Concorde
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:50 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
I kid you not, when I arrived at IST, I heard over the loudspeaker 'Theme From Superfly '

 Embarrassment
Ooops!
I meant to say when I arrived at ATH ...
Bring back the Concorde
 
iakobos
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:40 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
In fact, OA is the best EU member airline I have flown in over 20 years.

Good for you, regular users of OA's network could abundantly document a very different view. This said: technical maintenance (frame-engines-systems) is world-class.


Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
But more importantly, can I get two lamb or pork gyros and a liter of beer for 4 Euros throughout the EU?

Nor in Greece, unless the Albanian behind the counter made a mistake..


Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
Of the Greek locals, none are happy about joining the EU.

Wrong. About 70% of the population is positive about the EU. (frequent polls)
...and they (we) ALL know that if they left the train, the economy would collapse overnight...

Quoting Lewis (Reply 23):
On the other hand, many people are not happy about the Euro. After its introduction life became much more expensive than before.

Correct. I reckon that prices of consumer goods went up 25 to 30% in the lapse of 6 months. No surprise though, Greek merchants are very smart at using every opportunity to make a drachma, in this (one in a lifetime) case, the inability for the man in the street to divide by 340.75, coupled with a non-existent consumer union and a lax government with little means and no determination to control the prices...some might even add, they had some incentives not to control.


Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
I must say, ATH has the coolest modern airport!

German made and run (Hochtief group). Design called for a simple straight terminal, minimum costs, max revenues.
The business plan called for high charges, ATH was deemed to be a premium destination and was supposed to become THE hub of the Eastern Mediterranean. Not unrelated, it gives some (terribly needed) protection for the national carrier OA.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:22 pm

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 26):
Wrong. About 70% of the population is positive about the EU. (frequent polls)
...and they (we) ALL know that if they left the train, the economy would collapse overnight...

Perhaps I should have re-worded my post. I meant to say that f the Greek locals, none are happy about converting to the Euro. Others in this thread has already backed that up.

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 26):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
But more importantly, can I get two lamb or pork gyros and a liter of beer for 4 Euros throughout the EU?

Nor in Greece, unless the Albanian behind the counter made a mistake..

Well I happen to know of a place just south of Victoria Square in Athens that sells Gyros for 1.20 Euros and a liter of Mythos for just 1.60 Euros. So for a total of 4.00 Euros, this is what you get.  Smile


The name of the Place was George's Beauties. A rather strange name for a restaurant. Yes the staff is mostly Albanian and they do an excellent job.

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 26):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
I must say, ATH has the coolest modern airport!

German made and run (Hochtief group). Design called for a simple straight terminal, minimum costs, max revenues.
The business plan called for high charges, ATH was deemed to be a premium destination and was supposed to become THE hub of the Eastern Mediterranean.

Well when I arrived at ATH, I heard Theme from Superfly playing over the PA system so I am in bias of this new airport.  Smile
Perhaps OA knew I'd be flying so they must have got there act together for me.  rotfl 
Bring back the Concorde
 
CYatUK
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:03 pm

Something that hasn't been mentioned!

Athens is a brand new airport built from scratch at a brownfield site. Apart from the aiport, the construction included state of the art Metro / Rail station, bus stations and a connection to the main Attika motorway passing nearby.
CY@Uk
 
vv701
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting Phoenixflyer (Thread starter):
But what really surprised me was how much more expensive Athens was in comparison to other major European cities. It was over $400 more than London and $200 more than the next most expensive, Barcelona.

You do not mention what the actual total cost of either the NYC-LHR or NYC-ATH fares you were looking at was. But the ticketing distance from NYC to ATH at 4,927 miles is 42.5 per cent further than the NYC-LON ticketing distance of 3,458 miles.

So if your ATH fare is less than 1.425 times your London fare it was cheaper and if it was more than 1.425 times your London fare it was more expensive per mile flown.

However I would expect the NYC-ATH fare to be more expensive per mile for two reasons. There are only a few routes in the world where competition is more intense with six airlines (AI, BA, KU, UA and VS) flying LHR-JFK. And amongst those BA will fly six 744s, 2 777s and 2 767s between LHR and NYC tomorrow (Monday). So the chances of any not being nearly full will be low. I think that load factors on ATH-NYC are on average likely to be lower.
 
TIA
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:26 am

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 26):

Nor in Greece, unless the Albanian behind the counter made a mistake..

Or unless the price was really that low, despite of what you claim. Athens is by far the cheapest (prices wise) major Western European city.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:45 am

Superfly... you can't do that! hhhhmmmm...

regarding fares.....

isn't one of the issues the fact that LHR attracts a lot more premium traffic, and therefore there is a lot more flexibility for competitive pricing in Y class?

ATH is VERY seasonal, and I doubt that it even has 15% of the J class traffic between USA and UK!
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:22 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 31):
Superfly... you can't do that! hhhhmmmm...

Can't do what?  confused 
Bring back the Concorde
 
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fxramper
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:34 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
Therefore, many hang sleep overnight at ATH.

Ahh...the good ole days of camping overnight in that airport. I got a pic somewhere of me sleeping on a bench with a sausage biscuit (uneaten) sitting on me.

 drunk 
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:45 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 31):
Superfly... you can't do that! hhhhmmmm...

2 x gyros and mythos beer!
 
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OA412
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:56 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
Quoting Iakobos (Reply 26):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
But more importantly, can I get two lamb or pork gyros and a liter of beer for 4 Euros throughout the EU?

Nor in Greece, unless the Albanian behind the counter made a mistake..

Well I happen to know of a place just south of Victoria Square in Athens that sells Gyros for 1.20 Euros and a liter of Mythos for just 1.60 Euros. So for a total of 4.00 Euros, this is what you get.

Yeah, I too found several stands in Athens where I could get a similar meal for a similar price on my most recent trip to Greece so it is definitely doable.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:29 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 34):
Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 31):
Superfly... you can't do that! hhhhmmmm...

2 x gyros and mythos beer!

I can and I did.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 35):
Yeah, I too found several stands in Athens where I could get a similar meal for a similar price on my most recent trip to Greece so it is definitely doable.

My goodness, I am getting the feeling that I know of the good cheap restaurants better than the native Greeks on this board. Big grin
Next time I fly to Greece, I'll show you guys around!  rotfl 



Anyhow, this thread is straying off topic.
Bring back the Concorde
 
WesternA318
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:32 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 36):
Anyhow, this thread is straying off topic

Maybe if they started serving $1 Gyros in ATH, it'd be a WHOLE lot better on the overall running of the airport...
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:40 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 37):
Maybe if they started serving $1 Gyros in ATH, it'd be a WHOLE lot better on the overall running of the airport...

LOL! Big grin
ATH does have a great selection of Herpa Wings 1:500 model aircraft. So if you're in to collecting those model planes than ATH is your place.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
WesternA318
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:09 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 38):
ATH does have a great selection of Herpa Wings 1:500 model aircraft. So if you're in to collecting those model planes than ATH is your place.

True, although EWR now sells CO Pacmin models... drool 
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
BestWestern
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:37 pm

Quoting Iakobos (Reply 26):
Good for you, regular users of OA's network could abundantly document a very different view

OA is fine when an OA aircraft turns up... I've given up on OA to ATH, as im sick and tired of rust bucket charter layout sub aircraft. Never again, after seeing the L10-11 that OA subchartered, and was impounded by the French CAA.

Me, I had to put up with an airfinland 757, and blue panorama 767, which they loaded using an A340 seatmap! chaos ensued. Never again. Both flights over three hours late.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
WesternA318
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:38 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 40):
Me, I had to put up with an airfinland 757, and blue panorama 767, which they loaded using an A340 seatmap! chaos ensued. Never again. Both flights over three hours late.

Judas Priest! How many people walked away more pissed off than a one-legged stripper doing a tablehop?
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
lewis
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:56 pm

Quoting TIA (Reply 30):
Athens is by far the cheapest (prices wise) major Western European city.

Barcelona comes to mind. Much much cheaper in my opinion.
 
Superfly
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RE: Why Is ATH So Expensive?

Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:15 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 39):
True, although EWR now sells SA)">CO Pacmin models

That's cool. I like to stick with the 1:500 scale so all aicraft are to scale as if it's at a real airport. I do have one 1:200 scale Olympic Airways A340 as well as the Herpa Wings 1:500 scale version. I have about 32 Herpa wings.
Does EWR have non-Continental Pacmin models?
I hate to say it but the Continental livery is one of my least favorite.  Sad
I was so glad when Herpa Wings added the American Airlines 727-200 to there fleet. I couldn't wait to unload my Continental 727 to someone else.


All you other folks; sorry to hear such awful stories about Olympic Airways. I guess Olympic Airways is like a vintage Jaguar or Rolls Royce. When it runs, it's fantastic but breaking down is rather frequent.

Funny story. When I was visiting a friend in Pereaus, I told him I was flying back on Olympic Airways. He told me to read the paper everyday while I was in Greece just to make sure the airline wouldn't be on strike the day I flew out. A bartender in Ios told me the SAME THING a week later. That's when I began to worry.
Luckily there were no strikes the day I flew back to the USA.

BTW, this was the best meal I've had on a coach flight since I flew Pan Am 747-100 LAX-JFK in 1985. Plus 9 rounds of Greek wine.  Cool
Too bad Olympic doesn't fly here to San Francisco. It's also too bad that we don't have a large Greek immigrant population. We are badly in need of a good Gyro restaurant. The one's here are a joke.
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Sorry for the out of focus shot.
Bring back the Concorde