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clickhappy
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Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:38 pm


Passengers on an airliner bound for Bristol were plunged into panic when their captain refused to fly them home, telling them the aircraft was unsafe. Evening Post readers on board the flight from Antalya in Turkey say a "mini-riot" broke out after the pilot walked into the cabin and made his dramatic announcement, then walked off the plane.

The aircraft, operated by Turkish budget airline Onur Air, was waiting for clearance to take-off.

About 180 passengers are understood to have been aboard the Airbus A321 for 30 minutes in stifling heat, as the air-conditioning was not working.


Full article here

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displ...4133&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
The aircraft, operated by Turkish budget airline Onur Air, was waiting for clearance to take-off.

And here was everyone thinking Onur might have cleaned up their act...
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2165
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:11 am

One point that springs out of the article is:

"He said: "The plane's engines seemed to be making a horrendous noise before it took off and then the captain came out and announced he was resigning."

I wonder if that was the strange starting noise that you get on some airbus narrowbodies??????
 
futurecaptain
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:54 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:20 am

PIC says the a/c is unsafe. That's good enough for me and I wouldn't be flying on it.
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Passengers on an airliner bound for Bristol were plunged into panic when their captain refused to fly them home, telling them the aircraft was unsafe.

Why the heck would you panic if the pilot refuses to fly an aircraft he/she deemed to be unsafe? Wouldn't you panic if the Captain refused NOT to fly it?

This doesn't make any sense.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Lucky42
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Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:20 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:42 am

I agree if the pilot walks off the job why is there a mini riot? I say ok I will find another way home..
 
AI
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 7:13 pm

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting Lucky42 (Reply 5):
I say ok I will find another way home..

i am not sure how things are in US, but here in the UK sometimes people look for very very cheap holidays & go on very low budgets. once they are at their holiday destination, they spend all their money on alcohol, sex etc etc & probably have no money left on their last day.

i have seen atleast a couple of episodes of airline or holiday airport or something similar where they showed some young man/woman crying at airport because they had no money to buy tckt to go back home ( i dont remember why they didnt have a return tckt in the first place) & their debit card wouldnt be accepted. the airline kept them on standby & then found seats on the 2nd or 3rd day.

so may be this flight from turkey had such people. i could be wrong though.

AI
 
goldorak
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:31 am

Onur air has a pretty bad reputation for safety and should be avoided. There have been several issues these last months with them. Somebody from my family took one of their flight 2 years ago and she has been really scared during the entire flight due to the very bad shape of the plane
 
Capital146
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:42 am

I believe Onur Air's reputation in the Netherlands is particularly bad. I remember they were temporarily banned from there last year after a number of incidents, including a runway overshoot at GRQ (wasn't there one at EIN too?).
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting AI (Reply 6):
they spend all their money on alcohol, sex etc etc & probably have no money left on their last day.

There's not really any better way to do it.

NS
 
gkirk
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Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Capital146 (Reply 8):

True, In the UK, they seem to be operating fine. All the NCL flights (4/5 x weekly) are flown by A300-600Rs, any delays are due to previous flights.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
jetset7e7
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:56 pm

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
I wonder if that was the strange starting noise that you get on some airbus narrowbodies??????

I actually like that start up noise, it does it also when the power is cut on some A320's I have been on, like a winding up/down noise.

Mark
Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
 
lincoln
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 3):
PIC says the a/c is unsafe. That's good enough for me and I wouldn't be flying on it.

If the PIC... or SIC... or MX person... or Dispatcher... is not comfortable with the flight I'm on taking off...neither am I. It may be an inconvenience, but if there's any doubt about safety, it's a hell of a lot easier to get off the plane alive before it leaves the ground.

Getthereitis is deadly, and an abundance of caution is warranted, IMHO.

It may sound corny, but I would hope this and this (http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/imp/90.ram and http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/ramp/90.ram) is the attitude of all airlines (this is the ad campaign that really made me want to fly AA, but I digress)

Quoting AI (Reply 6):
they spend all their money on alcohol, sex etc etc

Uh, wow... I think I may be going to Europe on my next vacation   (kidding).

Lincoln

[Edited 2006-09-16 02:27:09]
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:27 am

I'd never fly the airline again if the pilot got off - deeming the aircraft unsafe. If the flight crew doesn't think the aircraft is safe, that's definitive to me. The buck stops with them. At some point, saving money just isn't worth it. I wish more budget airlines could be more like WN. First rate safety, good service and decency, and still cheap.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 12):

Quoting AI (Reply 6):
they spend all their money on alcohol, sex etc etc

Uh, wow... I think I may be going to Europe on my next vacation Wink (kidding).

Ohh, there are plenty of places here in the US you can do that.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
RJwrench85
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:58 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 12):
It may sound corny, but I would hope this and this (http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/imp/90.ram and http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/ramp/90.ram) is the attitude of all airlines (this is the ad campaign that really made me want to fly AA, but I digress)

Link did not work for me

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 13):
I'd never fly the airline again if the pilot got off - deeming the aircraft unsafe. If the flight crew doesn't think the aircraft is safe, that's definitive to me. The buck stops with them

Now this is where I have to say it depends on the crew..... Some think an "unsafe plane" is one that doesnt have an operative APU or maybe too many MEL/NAI/CDL's, etc....

Personally myself (MX) if we say it is unsafe than boy there is really a problem.

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 7):
Onur air has a pretty bad reputation for safety and should be avoided

Are there any links to the problems they have been having? This one sounds fishy since the pilot was quiting already
"Improvise, Adapt, Overcome"
 
lincoln
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:01 am

Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 14):
Link did not work for me

Sorry, the parenthasis got added into the link. Try
http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/imp/90.ram
and
http://pbmnyc.com/pbm/video/american/ramp/90.ram

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 14):
Some think an "unsafe plane" is one that doesnt have an operative APU

UAX wouldn't have any CRJ-200's left to fly.  Sad
Dear moderators: No.
 
RJwrench85
Posts: 117
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting We're Nuts (Reply 16):
Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 14):
Some think an "unsafe plane" is one that doesnt have an operative APU

UAX wouldn't have any CRJ-200's left to fly.



 laughing  If I had my way with that POS Garrett GTCP36−150 in the back of the 200 It would be replaced with something different.
"Improvise, Adapt, Overcome"
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:29 am

Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 17):
If I had my way with that POS Garrett GTCP36−150 in the back of the 200 It would be replaced with something different.

I told our passengers to use the safety card - quieter and more reliable anyway. Not sure what I'll do this winter. Maybe you guys can get working on a solution now?  Wink
Dear moderators: No.
 
cwldude
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:06 am

Knowingg the people of Wales and the SouthWest the riot was caused because they'd been left in a foreign country, with no money, on a plane with no aircon! and Im also 99% sure that Onur would have put the passengers straight back on that plane after giving it a minor check and a new pilot - which I for one would not be comfortable about!

Onur seriously need to start getting their act together or they're gonna find themselves in deep waters!
Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
 
rolfen
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:03 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:45 am

The mini riot may be not against the pilots decition, but against onur air for flying such an unsafe plane (come one, if the captain preferes to loose his job then fly on it... then it's really gotta be bad) and for being the root cause for them not being home on time...

Anyway, not to self: avoid onur... in addition to alphajet.
rolf
 
rolfen
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting AI (Reply 6):
they spend all their money on alcohol, sex etc etc & probably have no money left on their last day.

The only thing that is more fun then a british guy on vacation is a british girl on vacation.

[Edited 2006-09-16 04:53:40]
rolf
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:20 pm

I will never fly Onur Air in my life. If the PIC walks off due to the plane being unsafe, I will too.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
rolfen
Posts: 1539
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:03 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Rolfen (Reply 21):
The only thing that is more fun then a british guy on vacation is a british girl on vacation.

Please take that as a compliment.
rolf
 
richm
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:21 pm

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:38 pm

Does anyone know the reg of this aircraft?
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:07 pm

He was following a fundamental aviation rule: you don't have to fly if you don't feel comfortable.
 
goldorak
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:24 pm

Quoting RJwrench85 (Reply 14):
Are there any links to the problems they have been having? This one sounds fishy since the pilot was quiting already

here's one link (there are many posts available on the net on this airline)
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1117059554.html
 
levent
Posts: 1589
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:52 pm

Quoting Capital146 (Reply 8):
I remember they were temporarily banned from there last year after a number of incidents, including a runway overshoot at GRQ (wasn't there one at EIN too?).

I believe the EIN incident was fuel gushing out of the right wing. I don't remember the aircraft type though.

I flew Onur Air once, from Istanbul to Antalya. Apart from a very chaotic check-in and boarding procedure, there was nothing wrong with the flight (on an MD88). But the captain refusing to fly and walking out of the plane... now, that's something else...
 
dutchjet
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:28 pm

A lot of drama......while Onur Air does not have the best reputation, the problems that they experienced were mainly due to the sub-standard condition of leased in airplanes.

It would be nice to have some FACTS.....what, if anything, was wrong with the A321? And, if there was some fault with the engines (can we be a bit more specific than a funny noise.....you really cant rely on what pax say, airplanes do make some odd noises - how many times do unexperienced pax panic when the landing gear is lowered?), why didnt the pilot arrange to have the ground staff and tech people take a look at the airplane to determine what was wrong. For the pilot to simply announce that the plane is unsafe and walk off is very unprofessional.....talk about jumping ship and leaving his pax unprotected.....either he is a big drama queen or he simply did not want to fly the segment for some undisclosed reason. The story does not make any sense at all.

And, of course there was chaos on the airplane - what would you expect? It was hot, the pax were uncomfortable, and the pilot suddenly announced that the airplane was unsafe and walked off? A mini-riot......I am surprised that the pax did not storm the Onur Air desk demanding an explanation and recourse. Remember, the pax bought cheap holiday packages, did not chose Onur, and probably had no money to get home.....they were screwed! Have compassion for them, if a major US, EUropean or Asian carrier would pull a stunt like this we would all be outraged. And, the fact that the pax bought cheap holiday packages does not mean that they are not entitled to safe and reliable air transportation.......since when is safey linked to the price paid.

What a mess........now, I would like to know what REALLY happened?
 
777Dad
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:14 pm

Can I ask an Honest question on all Pilots out there?
Despite all the hype of this thread would you fly a plane you deem unsafe?
I know I wouldn't and I'm not a Pilot by any means.
I realize "some" safety issues will not prevent a plane from take off.
Is this Cpt. justified in his actions?
Thanks,
Jeff  scratchchin 
"I love to fly,I just don't do it enough"
 
richm
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:21 pm

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting 777DAD (Reply 29):
Can I ask an Honest question on all Pilots out there?
Despite all the hype of this thread would you fly a plane you deem unsafe?
I know I wouldn't and I'm not a Pilot by any means.
I realize "some" safety issues will not prevent a plane from take off.
Is this Cpt. justified in his actions?
Thanks,
Jeff   

I'm not a pilot but I'm sure it does happen where pilots decide to fly an aircraft if they are aware that there are some issues with it that may compromise safety. I guess in this case, they would evaluate the risk and the likeliness. I mean, if a pilot decided not to fly an aircraft for something deemed as minor, I'm sure they'd be put under a lot of pressure under some of the airlines out there. Although I'm 100% sure my perspective isn't textbook, and it definitely shouldn't happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it has. - As to how often, I wouldn't like to guess.
 
777Dad
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:48 pm

Quoting RichM (Reply 30):

Thanks for your input.
Jeff  airplane 
"I love to fly,I just don't do it enough"
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:53 pm

For f#ck's sake, nobody in here has any FACTS!

I would like to know the whole story first before I post an opinion.
So what was actually broken?
Was it HIL'able?
What were the operational consequences?

I had pilot in the past who were just not feeling like flying and were loking for reasons to ground an aircraft.
I also had pilots who would not accept an aircraft, which had a defect deferred perfectly legally under the MEL.
I also met pilots, who though they knew our job better than us and who insisted on their diagnosis of the fault, even if we proved that the fault was somewhere else and fixed the problem.

I know that mechanics of private Turkish airlines are under an immense pressure to get aircraft flying, legal or not, because there exist black lists.
Mechanics/engineers who decide to ground an aircraft and therefore causing their boss to loose money, might find themselves fired under a pretext and blacklisted as troublemakers, without the chance of ever finding a job in the industry again.
I have seen Turkish mechanics using adventurous improvised fixes outside any manual to get planes flying, because their boss did not want to spend money on a proper repair.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
User avatar
autothrust
Posts: 1455
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:02 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 2):
I wonder if that was the strange starting noise that you get on some airbus narrowbodies??????

I think you mean the loud, PTU noise at the A320 family before starting engines.
However, i really have a doubt about Onur Air's safety and maintenance capabilities. IMHO such Airlines, which have poor safety should be banned from EU airspace.
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 32):
For f#ck's sake, nobody in here has any FACTS!

I would like to know the whole story first before I post an opinion.
So what was actually broken?
Was it HIL'able?
What were the operational consequences?

I had pilot in the past who were just not feeling like flying and were loking for reasons to ground an aircraft.
I also had pilots who would not accept an aircraft, which had a defect deferred perfectly legally under the MEL.
I also met pilots, who though they knew our job better than us and who insisted on their diagnosis of the fault, even if we proved that the fault was somewhere else and fixed the problem.

I know that mechanics of private Turkish airlines are under an immense pressure to get aircraft flying, legal or not, because there exist black lists.
Mechanics/engineers who decide to ground an aircraft and therefore causing their boss to loose money, might find themselves fired under a pretext and blacklisted as troublemakers, without the chance of ever finding a job in the industry again.
I have seen Turkish mechanics using adventurous improvised fixes outside any manual to get planes flying, because their boss did not want to spend money on a proper repair.

Thanks Jan for the input and you are 100% right, lets get the facts first and judge....... I have never met any pilots or mechanics which would have taken over or release a unsafe aircraft as per MEL ..... but I am only involved with the industry since 88....... so it is just my experience

Cheers,
 
777Dad
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 32):
For f#ck's sake, nobody in here has any FACTS!

I agree also, however it wouldn't be the first time someone flipped out without knowing the FACTS on A-net.  Yeah sure

Jeff
"I love to fly,I just don't do it enough"
 
futurecaptain
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:54 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting 777DAD (Reply 29):
Despite all the hype of this thread would you fly a plane you deem unsafe?

No. Now the standards set can be bent a little, depending on the circumstances. But if I deem a plane "unsafe" then the buck stops with me and the a/c gets downed to be fixed.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 32):
Mechanics/engineers who decide to ground an aircraft and therefore causing their boss to loose money, might find themselves fired

If they fired a pilot for not flying a plane he deemed unsafe the media would have a field day. I can see the headlines... Pilot looks out for passenger safety, gets fired.
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
airfoilsguy
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Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:33 am

Ms Copeland refused to specify what the fault on the plane was.

That last statement in the article says a lot in my opinion. If it was such a minor problem why not tell us what it was? Perhaps the pilot went through regular channels to get the planes problems fixed and was ignored. The noise was probably the last straw and he snapped. I say good for him, although he will probably be black listed and never fly again.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
DTWAGENT
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:16 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:05 am

I know if I was on a plane and the captian walks out and tells everyone that this plane is unsafe. I would be halling ass to get off of it. I trust the pilots that fly my planes.

chuck
 
dazbo5
Posts: 2717
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:05 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:20 am

I can't comment on the incident regarding the A321 captain walking out, but I can comment on Onur Air. I've just flown from Manchester to Dalaman with them on their Airbus A300B4-605R's, TC-OAH (OHY380 1st Sept) out and TC-OAA (OHY379 15th Sept) back. The outbound flight was concerning to say the least. I won't go in to details here, but I've renamed the airline 'O never again Air'! I know this is a budget airline, but I still expect a well maintained aircraft with a good crew. Although the crew worked their socks off on both of the 4 hour flights, I wouldn't have confidence in them evacuating the aircraft quickly when needed. For example, on the outbound flight, the safety demo was given in about 30 seconds, and that's no exaggeration. It was rushed and the sound system made it impassable to hear the instructions clearly. Anyone on their first flight or not used to flying wouldn't have had a clue. My main concern was there wasn't a crew member sat at the emergency exit at the front of the aircraft during take off or landing. Surely this is a legal requirement? If anything happened, there wouldn't be anyone to open the door and co-ordinate an evacuation.

It was my first time with Onur, and it wasn't by choice since our original flight was cancelled 4 weeks prior to our departure so I had little choice. I decided to give them the benefit of the doubt as I'm a firm believer in you can't knock it until you've tried it. To be fair to Onur, apart from a 90 minute technical delay on the outbound flight (watch out for my trip report for details), the flights were smooth and uneventful. The inbound flight was slightly ahead of schedule. I did have my concerns though.

My trip reports will be posted soon!

Darren
Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
 
Ivo
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2000 1:49 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:22 pm

Most people in Europe buy a Package Holiday and mostly do not now which
airline they are travelling on. Sometimes there is a change in carrier without
notice to the traveller.

By the way, a new Turkish charter carrier (again) called Best Airlines, is starting with 2 ex Onur A321............

Ivo
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:36 pm

Quoting Ivo (Reply 40):
Most people in Europe buy a Package Holiday and mostly do not now which
airline they are travelling on. Sometimes there is a change in carrier without
notice to the traveller

You are right 100% and it is up to the tour operators to use them or not, had many friends which were surprised because they expected airline x but airlines
Z showed up..... but I guess it starts with us (customer) we do not want to pay a penny to much and the result is...

Cheers,
 
Molykote
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:21 pm

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:02 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 28):
What a mess........now, I would like to know what REALLY happened?

 checkmark 

I've seen pilots refuse aircraft because of an inoperative lavatory and other minor/convenience issues - This is of course their right. Given the theatre that this pilot displayed after his decision I wouldn't rule out the possibility that this was a pilot trying to make a point that may or may not have been directly related to the safety of his aircraft.

I do not wish to give the impression that the trivial reasons I've seen airplanes rejected is the norm among pilots (i.e. "I don't think this airplane is safe to ferry to station AAA but I will take it to BBB" - Where station AAA is a major maintenance base 400 miles away and station BBB is the pilot's home base 600 miles away!). Most are fully professional but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that this pilot may be part of the unfortunate minority.

Like every other post here - take mine for pure speculation.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 7):
Onur air has a pretty bad reputation for safety and should be avoided

umm....maybe you should word it better, they have no fatail accidents and "opinions" don't count when stating safety levels...facts do...

next : lemme save all of you the trouble, there was nothing wrong with the plane that required grounding, i work and live here in the industry it unfolds and it heard within 2 hours of happening just like any other turkish incident....the captain had najor issues with his airline and piggybacked on this situation, he made it to the papers, and also made some other things happen for him that he personally wanted....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
TuRbUleNc3
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 8:13 pm

RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 43):
lemme save all of you the trouble, there was nothing wrong with the plane that required grounding

Funny how Onur Air is yet again in the media though for apparently unsafe aircraft...shame they cant really prove it this time.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 43):
"opinions" don't count when stating safety levels...facts do...

The unsafe facts spoke for themselves with the incidents resulting in them being banned from several European countries.
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:30 pm

Quoting TuRbUleNc3 (Reply 44):
The unsafe facts spoke for themselves with the incidents resulting in them being banned from several European countries.

They were banned for paperwork reasons my friend....you can go ahead and e-mail airbus and ask them about the awards they've sent Onur Air for efficient operation of their aircraft....

as i said again, just because they dispatch with MEL items and they have deteriorating interiors, that doesn't make an airline unsafe, i guess most people are too luxurious these days things have to LOOK good in order to be deemed safe...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
TuRbUleNc3
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:10 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 45):
i guess most people are too luxurious these days things have to LOOK good in order to be deemed safe...

Looking good doesnt mean sat off the runway after overshooting which was all over the news, plus the other incidents which i cant remember so i wont elaborate, however i do remember the pilot flying without the medical documents. That paperwork statement for that incident, you are correct on.
 
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TK787
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting TuRbUleNc3 (Reply 46):
Looking good doesnt mean sat off the runway after overshooting which was all over the news

Look at AF, they still look pretty good after overshooting and loosing a 340.
Let's not get on the Onur bashing bandwagon every few months.
This must be one of the most overused topics here on a.net.

About the facts; Onur has German pilots?
 
TuRbUleNc3
Posts: 459
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 47):
Look at AF, they still look pretty good after overshooting and loosing a 340

1 aircraft ...it wasnt like a chain of events in a shortish timeframe, which a certain airline had  Wink

Quoting TK787 (Reply 47):
This must be one of the most overused topics here on a.net.

For a reason, obviously.
 
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TK787
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RE: Capt Refuses To Fly 'unsafe' Onur Air A321

Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting TuRbUleNc3 (Reply 48):
1 aircraft

That is one more than Onur lost in operations.
Not to take away from AF. I flew with them few times, great airline. Will fly with them again. On the other hand, like 99% of the people on the topic, I never flown on Onur , and probably never will.
I would like to make my mind on my own, rather than the hype, that is all.