Jerseyguy
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RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:54 am

There is a rumor floating around on Flyertalk that the poster talked to 2 deadheading pilots on different flights who say that CO Express flights will move to A-2 and that all mainline A-2 flights to move to C-2 within 6 months.

Continental has 24 gates in C-2 (where CO-Express operates) but only a possible 14 gates (if current gates were separated to A&B). They are also saying that CO will reduce Express flights once its contract with Expressjet is over but I doubt it will reduce it 10 gates worth. So that would mean that they would need B6s A2 gates to give them a total of 18 AB gates in A-2.

2 questions

1. Where would B6 go if they moved?
2. Why would B6 move to accommodate CO?
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ikramerica
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:01 pm

Makes no sense. Would be havoc on connecting pax, especially international connections, where most flights out of A-2 are O&D business flights.
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Jerseyguy
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:05 pm

Thats what I thought AND they would need B6s gates and I can't imagine B6 doing CO any favors anytime soon.
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STT757
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:05 pm

Quoting JerseyGuy (Thread starter):
1. Where would B6 go if they moved?

To Terminal B-1, DL has dropped alot of EWR service over the years. B-1 with NWA, DL and YX is not as busy as it used to be. B6 could easily get three gates at B-1.

Quoting JerseyGuy (Thread starter):
2. Why would B6 move to accommodate CO?

The Port Authority has been reportedly asking B6 to move to B1 for a while.
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jfklganyc
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sat Sep 16, 2006 11:10 pm

Don't know about the EWR move, but clearly a LOT of CO EX flying is going to be lost if this deal with ExpressJet goes through.

CO has yet to detail a plain to replace 40+ jets.

I'm assuming that mainline will pick up a lot of lost flying, hence the need for more mainline gates in C and fewer RJ gates in A.

PJ
 
Avion346
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:21 am

CO would HAVE to implement some sort of transfer from A2 to C that doesn't involve re-clearing security. I had to do this on a DCA-EWR-DTW routing and it was definitely a pain. If they allocate those gates to flights with even higher amounts of cnx traffic they really will need a bus transfer or something.
 
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STT757
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 4):
CO has yet to detail a plain to replace 40+ jets.

You missed this news:

Quote:

Print Version
Continental Airlines Selects Chautauqua to Operate 44 Regional Jets
HOUSTON, July 21 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL) today announced that it has selected Chautauqua Airlines to provide and operate 44 regional jets as a Continental Express carrier beginning in 2007, under a new capacity purchase agreement.

Chautauqua, a subsidiary of Republic Airways Holdings Inc. (Nasdaq: RJET), will operate 50-seat regional jets on Continental's behalf, under the Continental Express brand. Continental will continue to schedule and market all of its Continental Express regional jet service.

"In selecting Chautauqua, we've identified a regional operator that can uphold our high standards for reliable, quality service, while delivering that service at competitive rates," said Continental Chairman and CEO Larry Kellner.

"We know the Continental team and are delighted to be a part of their network," said Bryan Bedford, chairman, president and CEO of Republic Airways Holdings, parent company of Chautauqua Airlines. "We look forward to providing excellent service to Continental and its customers."

In April 2006, Continental announced that Chautauqua would operate any of the aircraft that ExpressJet Airlines elected to return to Continental under the Continental-ExpressJet capacity purchase agreement. ExpressJet's decision to retain all 69 aircraft provided Continental with the opportunity to examine options for replacing the regional capacity provided by those aircraft. Chautauqua will supply the 44 aircraft that it will operate under the new capacity purchase agreement. Continental currently has no plans to replace 25 of the 69 50-seat regional jets retained by ExpressJet.

Continental Airlines is the world's fifth largest airline. Continental, together with Continental Express and Continental Connection, has more than 3,200 daily departures throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia, serving 154 domestic and 138 international destinations. More than 400 additional points are served via SkyTeam alliance airlines. With more than 43,000 employees, Continental has hubs serving New York, Houston, Cleveland and Guam, and together with Continental Express, carries approximately 61 million passengers per year. Continental consistently earns awards and critical acclaim for both its operation and its corporate culture
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star_world
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting Avion346 (Reply 5):
CO would HAVE to implement some sort of transfer from A2 to C that doesn't involve re-clearing security. I had to do this on a DCA-EWR-DTW routing and it was definitely a pain. If they allocate those gates to flights with even higher amounts of cnx traffic they really will need a bus transfer or something.

They already have - there's an airside bus now that goes between the two terminals, it runs every few minutes. They have had this for a few months now.
 
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STT757
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:29 am

Continental Connection (CommutAir) is also taking delivery of 16 Q-200s for CLE, there's also the rumors of Continental Connection Q-400s.

http://www.commutair.com/PressReleases/PressRelease20060912-Q200.pdf
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dutchjet
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:36 am

While the Express to A idea has been considered,the people I have spoken with say its not happening and was never a real possibility:

1. CO Express would need far more space at A than the current CO gates....CO Express uses all of the C2 gates and their are some Express flights to/from Canada that utilize C3.

2. There would be confusion.....most pax dont know whether they are on a CO or CO Express flight.....and many destinations out of EWR are served with a mix of mainline and express flights. It would be a mess.

3. To get more space, JetBlue would have to move out of A......unless the PA forces the issue, JetBlue is not moving.

4. The current set up works just fine......until the new international flights were added, the destinations out of A were primarily O&D.....the new bus service helps connecting pax although I never thought that taking the monorail was such a big deal.

I think that this is one of those idea that sounded good, until it was fully studied and analyzed.

The other big issue at EWR at the moment is international arrivals....unless CO starts revising its schedules, it will have no choice but to use International arrivals at B for some of its European arrivals that arrive EWR between 1130-1330........the C3 gates are getting maxxed out, and with more flights to be added, there is talk that certain flights from certain countries will be assigned to B on a premanent basis.
 
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STT757
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:02 am

They should build a elevated enclosed walkway with moving sidwalks to connect the International arrivals hall at Terminal B with the International and Domestic check in levels at Terminal C, CO and the Port Authority was studying building such a walkway prior to 9-11. It would supplement the Airtrain, the distance is about 900ft.

I would go a step further and move DL, NWA, YX to Terminal A and CO could then take over their Terminal B gates making the transfer to Terminal C that much easier. Prior to 9-11 CO had their flights to London Gatwick depart out of Terminal B, maybe Departures from Terminal B to London, Tel Aviv etc is something CO should look into again.
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Avion346
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting Star_world (Reply 7):
They already have - there's an airside bus now that goes between the two terminals, it runs every few minutes. They have had this for a few months now.

Hahaha well that would explain it....my trip was in Dec. 2005. Thanks for the updated information.
 
coerj
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:14 am

For this to happen two things would need to occur-

Renovation of the A concourse, and check in facilities- which would allow more slots and gates for the large amount of Express aircraft

Mass transfer system between terminals, i.e. express bus that runs every two minutes, underground train, walk way, whatever. The A spider like concourses are very small and do not provide enough room in shops which is something CO is into after looking at C.
 
B6DC10
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:04 am

B6 will only move to B1 if they are heavily compensated for the cost of moving, and reimbursed for the 6 figure renovation they did to their space in terminal A. This is not a rumor, Continental has already stated their intentions to the PANYNJ, and to the TSA. Remember, Continental is taking a lot of express flights back to mainline.
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dutchjet
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 13):
Remember, Continental is taking a lot of express flights back to mainline

Where is this idea coming from? 44 of the 69 Expressjet ERJs are being replaced by Chatauqua, there is speculation over the Q400s, and the Commutair upgrade to Q200s was announced this week.
 
B6DC10
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 14):
Where is this idea coming from? 44 of the 69 Expressjet ERJs are being replaced by Chatauqua, there is speculation over the Q400s, and the Commutair upgrade to Q200s was announced this week.

From a Continental Captain I know from his weekly commute....Even though they're bringing in Chatauqua, they are still converting a lot of ERJ flights to 737-500's
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dutchjet
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:20 am

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 15):
From a Continental Captain I know from his weekly commute

I dont want to give you a hard time, but crew is usually the worst source of informaton such as this. The CO 735 fleet is already rather busy, its not as if CO has an extra 25 735s sitting somewhere to replace the ERJs. While there will be some shuffling of mainline and commuter operations.....dont expect any big changes to occur. The Commutair deal announced this week is part of the solution, and more will be disclosed in the coming months.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 13):
B6 will only move to B1 if they are heavily compensated for the cost of moving, and reimbursed for the 6 figure renovation they did to their space in terminal A. This is not a rumor, Continental has already stated their intentions to the PANYNJ, and to the TSA. Remember, Continental is taking a lot of express flights back to mainline.

Why would Jetblue do Continental any favors after the climate in EWR?
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Cactus739
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
I dont want to give you a hard time, but crew is usually the worst source of informaton such as this

Better or worse than here for rumors like this?
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ikramerica
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:45 am

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 15):
From a Continental Captain I know from his weekly commute....Even though they're bringing in Chatauqua, they are still converting a lot of ERJ flights to 737-500's

Captains are bad sources of information.

And converting some ERJ flights to 735 means either more capacity or reduction in frequency on the route. A route that sees 4 ERJs a day could see 2 ERJS and 1 735 and gain 10 seats a day, while DECREASING needed gate space at EWR due to 3 vs. 4 flights. Because CO was already sending some ERJs to C-3 in EWR and using a 737 gate for a smaller jet, by shifting back toward more 737s, they will really be reclaiming mainline gates for mainline flights. (Same holds true for IAH and CLE. Fewer ERJs in terminal C at CLE, fewer ERJs without jetway access at Terminal B (between B and C on the North side)

Converting those 735 flights to 738s (which are arriving monthly) also means more capacity on the route or reduction of frequency. I route with many 735, 73G and 738 flights in a day would see one less 735 (to go to the ERJ route), replaced with a 738, also an increase in capacity on the route.

All CO is doing is looking at routes that can support the shift and doing so. They only need to replace about 15 ERJs worth of capacity, which is 5 738s. CO will take more than 5 738s between the time they announced the loss of the XPress flights and the actual date they lose the net 15 or so flights.

My hope is that CO sees fit to turn a 735 on the IAH-SRQ flight this winter. Not only could they fill it (at least certain days of the week), but it would make rotation easier with the EWR flight.
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dutchjet
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:49 am

Quoting JerseyGuy (Reply 17):
Why would Jetblue do Continental any favors after the climate in EWR?

Good question - JetBlue is not going do any "favors" for CO, and likewise. CO is not going go out of its way to help JetBlue,.......BUT, it all depends on the terms of JetBlue's agreement with PANYNJ for the gate space and what provisions are included concerning moving JetBlue. THe PA may have the ""right"" to move Jetblue's location under certain conditions as set forth by the contract.....or maybe they dont? Obviously, the PA is going to do what it can to help CO at EWR (just as the PA would go out of its way to help JetBlue at JFK.....being a major tenant/operator does have its advantages) - at the minimum, I would expect that if JetBlue were to move, the costs of such a move would be covered and the new space to be occupied by JetBlue would have to be atleast as nice as what they are leaving behind.....and JetBlue would not be out of pocket for these expenses. JetBlue spend a good amount of money when it set up housekeeping at EWR...that investment must be protected.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 19):
A route that sees 4 ERJs a day could see 2 ERJS and 1 735 and gain 10 seats a day, while DECREASING needed gate space at EWR due to 3 vs. 4 flights.

It would also help to reduce the delays at EWR that will only get worse as CO continues to add 757 european destinations.
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Jerseyguy
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:16 am

Heres another thing to consider with about whether B6 would want to move to B1, can they get another gate in 2007 if they wanted to start a EWR-Midwest Hub (Rumored: STL) to expand service to the West out of EWR while only operating 2-3 extra flights?
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WesternA318
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting JerseyGuy (Thread starter):
1. Where would B6 go if they moved?
2. Why would B6 move to accommodate CO?

B6 would go to B1, and B6 wouldnt help CO, but...it WOULD give CO more room to roam.

Quoting JerseyGuy (Reply 21):
It would also help to reduce the delays at EWR that will only get worse as CO continues to add 757 european destinations.

As opposed to B6's extra 320 flights, or CO's 767/777 routes?
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Jerseyguy
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:11 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 23):
B6 would go to B1, and B6 wouldnt help CO, but...it WOULD give CO more room to roam.

Already answered would you please read replies before responding

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):
To Terminal B-1



Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 13):
B6 will move to B1



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
Good question - JetBlue is not going do any "favors" for CO, and likewise. CO is not going go out of its way to help JetBlue
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WesternA318
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting JerseyGuy (Reply 24):
Already answered would you please read replies before responding

I did read the replies, just adding more salt to the wound
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STT757
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting JerseyGuy (Reply 22):
Heres another thing to consider with about whether B6 would want to move to B1, can they get another gate in 2007 if they wanted to start a EWR-Midwest Hub (Rumored: STL) to expand service to the West out of EWR while only operating 2-3 extra flights?

B6 has been reducing flights at EWR, not growing. They dropped the twice daily TPA flights but brought back (who knows for how long) once daily TPA. The two daily SJU flights are ending, B6 is not going to grow EWR like some on here wildly expected.

They had some additional Long Beach slots become available last Spring and did not launch any flights to EWR, that's when I realized their comitment to EWR was waning. There are articles and quotes that B6 is actually considering dropping EWR.

For what they have now and what they are likely to have for years to come at EWR can easily be handled by 3 gates at B-1, if they needed more gates there are gates at B2 which can handle Domestic flights and have in the past for YX, FL, USA 3000 etc..
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coerj
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:51 pm

When B6 originally pulled into EWR i was extemely excited but their fares are not competitive and therefore the only utilization I have gained is the competitive fares on CO to FL which are substantially cheaper. Unfortunatley B6 an airline that I truly do love does not have a future in EWR, as EWR is Continental Country, and they will continue to fight until B6 is completely gone.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:01 pm

Quoting COERJ (Reply 27):
EWR is Continental Country

Yeah it sure helps when you operate 62% of an airports gates.
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dutchjet
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:10 pm

Quoting JerseyGuy (Reply 28):
Yeah it sure helps when you operate 62% of an airports gates.

Which is not unusual given that EWR is a CO hub.........

Now, lets talk about JetBlue's new and expanding terminal at JFK, shall we? How many gates and what type of facilities will JetBlue have at JFK?

We have had discussions like this before, and I realize that you are upset that CO competed strongly against JetBlue's EWR flights......and that EWR did not work out as well for JetBlue as that had hoped. In the future, I think that JetBLue will re-focus its NYC operation on JFK and offer flights to key FLorida cities out of LGA and EWR to offer its customers choice......not a bad compromise, is it? This is the second time that JetBlue learned a difficult lesson: its very difficult to compete at another airline's hub.
 
tommy767
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:19 pm

What about A-1? United has also dropped service out of EWR over the past few years. i'm sure there are some gates up for grabs there too. And to what extend does DL not use their gates in B-1?
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dutchjet
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:51 pm

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 30):
What about A-1? United has also dropped service out of EWR over the past few years. i'm sure there are some gates up for grabs there too. And to what extend does DL not use their gates in B-1?

Both UA and DL have more space than they need at EWR for their current level of operations....many thought that more of UA's gates would go to JetBlue overtime, but as JetBlue's expansion plans for EWR will probably not go forward, CO may take the gate at some point.

Re DL, they too have cut back out of EWR.....they have dropped their EWR-FLorida services (flown by DL mainline, DL Express and Song over the years) and some other routes. It would make sense for DL to release the gates......why pay for something that you dont need......and DL has some flexibility with terminating/renegotiating contracts while under the protection of the court. Some have suggested that JetBLue move over to B.....using some of these gates, freeing up additional space for CO. Its unclear as to what the final result will be.
 
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STT757
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 30):
What about A-1? United has also dropped service out of EWR over the past few years. i'm sure there are some gates up for grabs there too. And to what extend does DL not use their gates in B-1?

Air Canada just recently moved into A-1, along with Airtran. I think they could fit another smaller carrier like YX into A-1.

DL has had the same number of gates at EWR for 20 years, back when they used to fly nonstop from EWR to LAX, MCO, TPA, PBI, RSW, CVG, SLC, FLL etc.. They don't need 6 gates at EWR for flights to ATL, CVG and SLC, nor does NWA need four gates for flights to DTW, MSP, MEM.

Three gates for DL, Three for NWA, three four B6, if any of those carriers need an extra gate or two the B-2 concourse has gates capable of handling domestic flights.

The Port Authority is spending $300 Million on expanding Terminal B's security screening areas as well as adding a new domestic check in, baggage claim level as they did with Terminal C.

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Cory6188
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 32):
Three gates for DL, Three for NWA, three four B6, if any of those carriers need an extra gate or two the B-2 concourse has gates capable of handling domestic flights.

CO might be in need of extra gates in A, but I don't think that they would decide to take gates in Terminal B as well. The current situation is spread out enough as it is; I doubt that they would want to make their operations even further spread out.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: RUMOR: CO Express To Term A At EWR

Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 32):
DL has had the same number of gates at EWR for 20 years, back when they used to fly nonstop from EWR to LAX, MCO, TPA, PBI, RSW, CVG, SLC, FLL etc.. They don't need 6 gates at EWR for flights to ATL, CVG and SLC, nor does NWA need four gates for flights to DTW, MSP, MEM.

I don't know about that, last time I flew out of EWR ( August 16th, 2006 ) on YX to MKE we left EWR at 630AM and B-1 was PACKED, YX was using B47, NW had all 4 of it's gates ( B40, B41A, B41B, B42 ) in use with 2 aircraft parked on the ramp. DL had it's 3 gates in use aswell ( B44, B45, B46 ) and I think they had a CRJ on the ramp at B43 going to CVG. During the evening Air France uses DL's B45 to load it's flight to CDG. ( A340-300 ) KLM uses NW's B42 for it's departure to AMS. ( A330-200 ) B-1 seems pretty well used if you ask me and I don't see B6 getting 3 gates there or even 1.....
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