qqflyboy
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AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:05 am

Fresh from the the rumor mill, AA is temporarily parking seven A300s between now and the middle of November, when additional seasonal/holiday flying picks up for Florida and the Caribbean. In addition, the leases that were to expire on the A300s next year and 2008 have been extended to 2010. Take it for what you will, it came from the pilot's rumor mill.

There may be some truth to it as AA is offering one month leaves for October to flight attendants based at JFK and MIA (both A300 bases) and other bases as they pull back flying between summer and the holidays.
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BigGSFO
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:47 am

Do they park them every year during Sept. and Oct.? What's different about this year than the years prior? Are they reducing any flying outside the seasonal adjustments?

The lease extentions don't surprise me. However the fact that they were only extended 2 years tells me AA has a plan to replace them by 2010.
 
willyj
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:51 am

Hopefully they'll use the time to update the interiors. 2 years ago I saw a picture of an AA AB6 with an updated first class - similar seats to the 738s - and newer TV monitors, are they finished with that? The last time I was on an AB6 I was in Business flying down to the caribbean and the seat was in horrible shape. There was also a panel missing on the side wall - doesn't instill a lot of confidence!
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:51 am

Interesting rumor.......one that makes sense.

1. Traffic to Florida and the Caribbean falls off dramatically during "Hurricane season"......its back to school, the jewish holidays, no one on vacation, lousy weather and the hurricane issue in Florida/Caribbean, still reasonable weather in the Northeast US, and the Florida 2nd home crowd has not yet headed south, etc, etc. Traffic is light, and airlines do cut back flights ......the only other choice is filling up the airplanes with pax flying for $49 which is financial suicide. Since AA does not send the A300s much futher than the Caribbean and Florida, it does make sense to park the airplanes for a couple of months.....maybe AA will use the down time to do some maintainance checks and upgrades on the airplanes, maybe not. The airplanes will be back in the air for the Thanksgiving rush when the Florida/Caribbean routes pick up.

2. Re the extension of the A300 leases.....again, it makes sense and I was waiting to hear something definite. AA simply cannot start returning the A300s to lessors....what will replace them? The A300s may be getting older and they may be out-of-style, but AA moves a lot of pax and cargo on those airplanes and they are cash cows. The 2010 date is interesting......I wonder if, in 2010, AA will start accepting delivery of some new airplanes (say to be ordered 787s) that will replace the Airbus fleet?

Thanks for sharing this rumor.....lets see what happens?
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
Do they park them every year during Sept. and Oct.? What's different about this year than the years prior? Are they reducing any flying outside the seasonal adjustments?

Let me take a guess......in the past, the September-November 15 was (in)famous for major fare wars on the NYC-FLorida routes and lots of bargains on the Caribbean routes.....with high oil prices (although things did get better this past week) maybe AA does not want to play this game and instead will simply slash capacity on the routes during the couple month period?
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
However the fact that they were only extended 2 years tells me AA has a plan to replace them by 2010.

Can we say B787?

-YVRtoYYZ
 
SESGDL
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 5):
Can we say B787?

Don't think so. 787 delivery slots are filled until 2012, so no 787s for AA before then.

Jeremy
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
Don't think so. 787 delivery slots are filled until 2012, so no 787s for AA before then.

If AA wants them, they'll find a way to get them when they want them - like taking Primaris' delivery slots. Not that it will be very easy, but if AA is in a situation where they decide they want 787s by 2009, I doubt Boeing is going to say "oh well. Screw you even though you are one of our most important customers."

[Edited 2006-09-16 20:28:36]
a.
 
bmacleod
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:19 am

I may be wrong , but it makes more sense to just retire the A300s and use additional 763s until AA is able to acquire 787s. These A300s must be getting rusty by now and operating costs would be higher than 767-300s, right?
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
commavia
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:24 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 8):
I may be wrong , but it makes more sense to just retire the A300s and use additional 763s until AA is able to acquire 787s.

But for the fact that AA doesn't have any more 767s to spare, let alone enough to cover the flying currently being done by all 34 A300s, or even just a few.

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 8):
These A300s must be getting rusty by now and operating costs would be higher than 767-300s, right?

Some of American's 767-300s are also getting a bit long in the tooth, as they were aquired right around the same time as the oldest A300s. The A300s are maintenance nightmares, but they serve a role that no other plane AA has can currently fill, and thus AA tolerates their technical issues.
 
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STT757
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:30 am

If AA wants to replace their A300s with 787s starting in 2010 they need to make an oder soon, AA could probably get a couple of production slots for 787s between 2010-2012 (perhaps through somebody like ILFC).
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dutchjet
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 8):
I may be wrong , but it makes more sense to just retire the A300s and use additional 763s until AA is able to acquire 787s. These A300s must be getting rusty by now and operating costs would be higher than 767-300s, right?

1. Exactly where is AA going to come up with "additional" 763s to operate the routes that are now flown with the A300?

2. The 763 cannot carry as many passengers as the A300.......not to mention that the A300 can haul far more cargo than the 763. If anything, AA would have to misuse their 772 fleet to cover for the A300, and that is certainly not happening.

3. Rusty? Are you saying that AA is flying airplanes that are rusty? Are you kidding?

4. AA's operating costs on the A300s are excellent......especially when considering the high density layout installed on those airplanes and the amount of cargo carried.

5. You do realize that AA's A300 fleet was delivered in the late 1980s and early 1990s......making them younger than AA's 762 fleet and about the same age as some of AA's 763ERs.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
If AA wants them, they'll find a way to get them when they want them - like taking Primaris' delivery slots.

Exactly, if AA signed up for the 787, Boeing would find a way for AA to have them by 2010.....and is the 787 line really sold out until 2012, thats news to me. The 2012 date, as far as I recall, is the date that the 787-10 would be introduced to service if Boeing determines that it wants to proceed with that variant.
 
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STT757
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:35 am

Why can't AA get a couple of turns with their 777s from JFK and MIA to SDQ, STI, SJU etc..
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commavia
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
Why can't AA get a couple of turns with their 777s from JFK and MIA to SDQ, STI, SJU etc..

They are used, occasionally, as subs on these routes and during the winter AA sends the 777 down on BOS-SDQ on Saturdays when its not running the morning flight BOS-LHR. Generally, though, the 777s don't have enough seats, and what seats they have are in a completely uneconomic density configuration for these markets. The plane is way to premium-oriented for these routes. Example: of the A300's 266 seats, only 6% are premium; on the 777s, 21% of the 245 seats are premium. Even if you sold the 35 Business Class seats as coach and let elites/full-fare pax upgrade, you've still lost a total of 21 Economy Class seats.
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:38 am

On the 787 front, and this is PURE rumor, I've heard AA is in slot negotiations with Boeing for up to 50 787s, the first of which would be 787-3s to replace 762s and A300s. Then later 787-9s would come to supplement 763/772 flying.

At least the numbers add up as AA's current A300 and 762 fleet totals around 50 aircraft. However, I don't know much about the various 787 models and how well the 787-3s would replace the A300 or 762.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 14):
On the 787 front, and this is PURE rumor, I've heard AA is in slot negotiations with Boeing for up to 50 787s, the first of which would be 787-3s to replace 762s and A300s. Then later 787-9s would come to supplement 763/772 flying.

At least the numbers add up as AA's current A300 and 762 fleet totals around 50 aircraft. However, I don't know much about the various 787 models and how well the 787-3s would replace the A300 or 762.

Many here at a.net are convinced that AA will split its order between the shorter range 783 (762 transcon/A300 replacement) and the 789 (that will slot inbetween the 763ER and 772ER and eventually replace the 763ER).....my position (and its just an opinion) is that AA will not go with the 783 and instead focus on the longer range variants of the 787 to increase flexibility in their fleet. I think that AA will be limited by the 783's lack of range.....I do understand that there are certain advantages (financial and otherwise) of going with the 783, but I think that those are outweighed by the ability to use the 788 on a MIA-SJU route one day and the MIA-CDG route the next day. Time will tell........and a lot will depend on how many 787s that AA commits to with its initial order.

The other issue to consider is that the 783 or 788 are far bigger airplanes than the 762......my guess is that when this all happens, 763ERs will take over the transcon flights and the 787s will fly European/South American runs....which further diminishes the case for the 783.
 
dartland
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 8):
I may be wrong , but it makes more sense to just retire the A300s and use additional 763s until AA is able to acquire 787s. These A300s must be getting rusty by now and operating costs would be higher than 767-300s, right?

Exactly.

It's clearly not ideal, but it will work until they're ready to grow again.
 
warreng24
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:00 am

Where are these A/C being parked at?

Victorville?
Roswell?
Goodyear?
Marana?
Mojave?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:01 am

This is pretty typical for every year during this time. Last year, AA drew back A300 flying during the same time, but didn't officially park any aircraft. They did a rolling parking where they were leave aircraft idle for a day or two at a time. Also, the a lot of heavy maintenance work was performed last fall on the A300's, along with deep cleaning. This may or may not be the case this year, depending on the maintenance schedule.

AA isn't alone, a lot of other airlines have scaled back capacity is certain markets during the off-seasons. A lot of these leisure markets have peaks and valleys, and the airlines now are tailoring their schedule more to match them than ever before.
 
CRJ900
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 15):
I do understand that there are certain advantages (financial and otherwise) of going with the 783, but I think that those are outweighed by the ability to use the 788 on a MIA-SJU route one day and the MIA-CDG route the next day.

RE 788: Won't they face the same problem that they have with putting the 777 on domestic runs, the 777 cabin has too many premium lie-flat seats and too few Y-seats making the shorter runs uneconomical? Hence, the A306 fly those routes.

Or will Boeing make the planes so that they can be reconfigured between trips? I highly doubt that.

It's not like the 783 will be a complete dog either, with 6,500kms range... that's transcon and a bit more, perfect for the North American market.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 17):
Where are these A/C being parked at?

I was wondering the same thing, although I think they are more likely to be spread out... MIA, JFK, SJU as spares, or sent to Tulsa for additional maintenance. Although expensive, it would be nice if they'd do extensive maintenance on them again. This past year the mechanical issues on the A300, in my experience, were far less common/complicated than in the past, and their reliability greatly improved. I think the term "parked" was used figuratively, rather than literally, when the pilots told me about it. Even so if they were actually parked I doubt AA would pay someone else to store them when they could handle a month or two on the ramps at Tulsa, KC and Alliance.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
jfk777
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:18 am

A300 have evry small Biz class cabins, only 16 seats. 789 with 30 Biz and 250 Coach(just an estimate) could fly both short haul Latin out of MIA and JFk and fly to Europe too. May be a sub-fleet with only 18 Biz and more coach is the answer to the Caribean.
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 19):
RE 788: Won't they face the same problem that they have with putting the 777 on domestic runs, the 777 cabin has too many premium lie-flat seats and too few Y-seats making the shorter runs uneconomical? Hence, the A306 fly those routes

Good point, but AA could go with two seperate interior layouts.....one for longhaul and the other for shorter haul trips, even if the airplanes could not rotate easily between missions on a daily basis, the airplanes could be reconfigured when there are shifts in demand and conditions change.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 19):
Or will Boeing make the planes so that they can be reconfigured between trips? I highly doubt that.

I agree.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 19):
It's not like the 783 will be a complete dog either, with 6,500kms range... that's transcon and a bit more, perfect for the North American market.

But just short of transatlantic range.......limiting the airplanes flexibility and possibly impacting longterm value. Just like the 763A and 772A have limited appeal, the 783 may be ideal for Japanese operators but not the best all around airplane for AA. It will be interesting to see how this works out.
 
JAM747
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:59 am

Does any one know the price difference between the 787-3 and 787-9? Maybe this will determine if AA gets both types ,or just the 787-9 if the price is close so it has better flexibility for routes.
 
commavia
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 23):
Does any one know the price difference between the 787-3 and 787-9?

The -3 is larger, with a much shorter range. The -9 has a very long range, and is a bit smaller in capacity.
 
2H4
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:14 am




Quoting Commavia (Reply 9):
The A300s are maintenance nightmares

What are the A300s biggest problems, maintenance-wise?




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
MCOflyer
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:37 am

My uncle works for voght and he tells me that AA is ordering 787's. When? He doesn't know. Boeing will FIND a way to get them 787's to replace A300's.

MCOflyer
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SABE
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:42 am

Interesting to see this topic just a few days after AA changed my flight BOG-MIA on January 6th from an A300 to a B763. This is the second flight of the day from BOG (AA916). I looked in the schedule and it appears that this change of equipment is long-term. Anyone know where that other A300 is being redeployed?
TUS-DFW-EZE... can't wait to visit home again!
 
JAM747
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 24):
Quoting JAM747 (Reply 23):
Does any one know the price difference between the 787-3 and 787-9?

The -3 is larger, with a much shorter range. The -9 has a very long range, and is a bit smaller in capacity.

I was asking about the price difference between the two 787 models .
 
commavia
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 28):

I was asking about the price difference between the two 787 models .

My apologies at misreading your original question. The list price (and of course no airline ever pays the true list price, kind of like how nobody ever pays the sticker price for a new car) for the 787-3 is $138-143M and the 787-9 has a list price of $178.5-188M. My guess (although I can't back it up with any hard evidence) is that AA would probably get a 20-30% discount off the list price because they are such a loyal customer, and because they'd hypothetically be buying so many at once.
 
ikramerica
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
Don't think so. 787 delivery slots are filled until 2012, so no 787s for AA before then.

Considering the size of the order by AA, that alone would justify going forward with the second assembly line. 34 A300s and 58 763s will need replacing. This doesn't count growth. An order for 50+50 options sounds reasonable. 783s and 788s are the jets AA would likely sign on for first to replace the 763 and A300 (or possibly all 788s), with 78Xs later to begin replacing the 777 (or Y3). But AAs 777s are not old, so those 78Xs will be a long way off, if ever.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 21):
789 with 30 Biz and 250 Coach(just an estimate)

That would be about right for a two class 788. 789 is larger.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 24):
The -3 is larger, with a much shorter range. The -9 has a very long range, and is a bit smaller in capacity.

This is not true. The 783 and 788 are the same size, the 789 is bigger. The capacity gap comes from the 783 being intended as a two class jet. A 789 in two class has 30-50 more seats than a two class 783, and even with that number of pax, would have twice the range. It's also heavier and has a larger wingspan making it less practical for those flights.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
The lease extentions don't surprise me. However the fact that they were only extended 2 years tells me AA has a plan to replace them by 2010.

B787 rings a bell from 2012 anyone?
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WesternA318
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 8):
I may be wrong , but it makes more sense to just retire the A300s and use additional 763s until AA is able to acquire 787s. These A300s must be getting rusty by now and operating costs would be higher than 767-300s, right?

Where would AA get the 763s, and what are they going to do about ALL the freight the Airbii carry?

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 21):
May be a sub-fleet with only 18 Biz and more coach is the answer to the Caribean.

But what about cargo space?
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ltbewr
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:39 am

The A300 are use on specific JFK/MIA and Carribbean routes due the larger cargo/baggage capacity vs. the 767's. By limiting the airports that operate the A300, they probably narrow some of the mx needs. Perhaps they could get used or off-lease A330's as a stopgap or if they cannot get 787's in time.
 
dutchjet
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 33):
Perhaps they could get used or off-lease A330's as a stopgap or if they cannot get 787's in time.

I really dont think that will be happening.
 
luisca
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 32):
But what about cargo space?

The 787 will almost certainly have the same cargo capacity as the A300 or maybe even better capacity.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
WesternA318
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 35):
The 787 will almost certainly have the same cargo capacity as the A300 or maybe even better capacity.

Thanks for clarifying, I dont even bother looking up data on the 787...
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PRAirbus
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:23 am

AA's schedule in SJU for Winter 06 shows a lot of AB6 activity, there might be a "break" on the short-term but those birds will be busy again during the winter flying snowbirds to warmer climates. I doubt they will get an interior make-over surely a thourough cleaning and some freshen up but if they will be dumped in 5 years or so I do not think AA will upgrade them. MIA will get some flights upgraded to AB6's next Winter too.
 
CHIFLYGUY
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 22):

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 19):
It's not like the 783 will be a complete dog either, with 6,500kms range... that's transcon and a bit more, perfect for the North American market.

But just short of transatlantic range.......limiting the airplanes flexibility and possibly impacting longterm value. Just like the 763A and 772A have limited appeal, the 783 may be ideal for Japanese operators but not the best all around airplane for AA. It will be interesting to see how this works out.

How far along is the 783 in development? This is a niche aircraft so far, so I'm guessing that if AA were going to order ~50, they could influence the specs to some degree. 6500kms is pretty darn close to real trans-atlantic range, another 750 miles and they'd have it.

Maybe some engineers can help explain something there. The 788, et. al. will have a thinner wing optimized for cruise, not climb. In fact, I've heard mention of a "cruise-climb", where it would take a 788 longer than a normal aircraft to reach cruising altitude. Hence a completely different wing for the 783. It strikes me that this could severely affect the economics of shorter segments like the AA Carribean routes. What the minimum economic range of the 788?

Even without the USA carriers, it strikes me that the 783 could have a great market in places like China and India domestic in addition to Japan, especially if it were priced right to that type of market. The A300 replacement market is sizeable and represents a hole in the Airbus lineup right now.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:37 am

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 37):
I doubt they will get an interior make-over surely a thourough cleaning and some freshen up but if they will be dumped in 5 years or so I do not think AA will upgrade them. MIA will get some flights upgraded to AB6's next Winter too.

IIRC, they got an interior refresh and new LCD screens not long ago. Not sure, though. I haven't flown one in five years.
a.
 
LGA777
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:49 am

Allthough I don't work for AA my employer uses Sabre and we can check Flifo (actual times of arrival/departure) of AA and several other carriers. Because my wife is Dominican I have developed quite an interest in airline service to the island and SDQ in particliar. Therefore I check for fun the times on AA's JFK-SDQ flights (all A-300's) several times a week and this summer the delays which are often bad where actually really bad. My wife and I go SDQ several times a year including every summer and because of past experiance non-reving and getting stuck on our summer AA advenutures we bought tickets this year and flew AA A-300's. Going down we where about 3 hours late, after boarding our second A-300 due to a mechanical on the first one,. While waiting for our bags (over an hour) in customs in SDQ I checked the AA arrivals screen and I did not feel so bad when I saw the A-300 from BOS was arriving behind us 6 hours late but the JFK flight behind ours was only 90 mins late. I non-reved home a few days later on another carrier but when my wife returned on AA she suffered a 150 minute delay due to an A-300 going out of service earlier in the day. She experianced total delays of about 5 1/2 hours on her round-trip. I am not writing this to bash AA but if anything they could use some more A-300 spares and perhaps next summer they should consider a slightly more conservative schedule with at least one additional A-300 spare at JFK, MIA and perhaps SJU.

Respectfully,

LGA777
 
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fxramper
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RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
If AA wants them, they'll find a way to get them when they want them - like taking Primaris' delivery slots.

 checkmark 

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 14):
for up to 50 787s

 checkmark 

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 25):
What are the A300s biggest problems, maintenance-wise?

Rudders and take off power settings.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9102
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:37 pm

AA is an interesting customer for Boeing. They could use 50+50 787s ordered ASAP and will also need a lot of Y1s to replace the MDs.

to get the order and take care of AA's long term needs Boeing is going to need to be very creative in terms of financing AND they are going to need to present a strong financial justification for the orders. Lots of accountants and finance guys (and gals) are going to have to work this out - and I believe that they will come up with long term solutions, including long term financing to make it happen.

As to the 787 slots, does anyone know what slots before 2012 are held with refundable deposits? Does AA already have some of these slots? Or is this going to be a situation where AA gets first choice of any new slots made available from any ramp up of the 787 production?
 
CHIFLYGUY
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:14 pm

RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:47 pm

Ken,

Depending on what Boeing does with Y1 and what AA actually decides to do, it's possible that AA could eventually become a 2 type fleet for mainline: 787 and Y1. Other US carriers such as DL could end up the same way.
 
B707Stu
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:15 pm

RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:06 pm

Quoting Willyj (Reply 2):
Hopefully they'll use the time to update the interiors. 2 years ago I saw a picture of an AA AB6 with an updated first class - similar seats to the 738s - and newer TV monitors, are they finished with that? The last time I was on an AB6 I was in Business flying down to the caribbean and the seat was in horrible shape. There was also a panel missing on the side wall - doesn't instill a lot of confidence!

I'll settle for a good cleaning. The last one I was on a few weeks ago was disgusting. THe AA A300's puts the 'bus' feeling in Airbus. THe walls, bathrooms and seats were gross. Even the overheads were stained and ridiculous. I hope they taxi them to a hangar, scrub the insides, change the seat covers and perk them up.
 
Lemurs
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:13 am

RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:26 pm

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 44):
I'll settle for a good cleaning. The last one I was on a few weeks ago was disgusting. THe AA A300's puts the 'bus' feeling in Airbus. THe walls, bathrooms and seats were gross. Even the overheads were stained and ridiculous. I hope they taxi them to a hangar, scrub the insides, change the seat covers and perk them up.

Comes with the territory when you fly high Y leisure routes unfortunately. People treat the airplane like trash when they got their ticket for $200 r/t. I don't envy anyone trying to keep those things clean.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4492
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:35 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 30):
Considering the size of the order by AA, that alone would justify going forward with the second assembly line.

Boeing has certainly dropped enough hints that a second line is an option. One problem is whether it would run long enough to pay for itself; but I think they have figured out a way to say yes to this.

A second problem is whether their suppliers can support a production increase. I suspect the decision to go ahead with a second line if at all possible has already been made and the supplier problem is the reason it hasn't yet been announced. The Charleston facility is probably a prime bottle neck.
 
chiad
Posts: 1016
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:40 pm

AA is going to replace the A300's and B767's with A350XWB's. You'll see.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5742
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:44 pm

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 43):
Depending on what Boeing does with Y1 and what AA actually decides to do, it's possible that AA could eventually become a 2 type fleet for mainline: 787 and Y1. Other US carriers such as DL could end up the same way.

While in theory you may be right, I doubt that this would ultimately come to pass. For one, they would need darn near 400 firm Y1's, which will take many years to be delivered.

For two, if you look back at the past 5, 10, 15, or 20 years, you get a very volitile picture of the industry. Boom, bust, boom, bust. Multiple bankruptcies. Changes in strategy. Mergers and acquisitions. New technology jets. Labor costs. Etc.

I agree that these two carriers could theoretically go to two mainline fleet types. I just doubt it will every happen.

-Dave
-Dave
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24724
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Parks Seven A300s, Extends Leases

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:35 pm

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 45):
Comes with the territory when you fly high Y leisure routes unfortunately. People treat the airplane like trash when they got their ticket for $200 r/t. I don't envy anyone trying to keep those things clean.

Would make perfect sense if the A300 was flying leisure routes with low fares.

Too bad that theory doesn't fly, since AA's A300s fly almost primarily on high-yield, dense city pairs with heavy VFR traffic on routes that average $350-$450 r/t, even though most are 3 hours or less.
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