timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:00 am

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=70703006&size=l

Rather an empty ramp. A BOAC Britannia, an Alitalia DC-8, and is that a Continental 707? Did they even fly to NY then?

Runway 7/25 probably still in use then, running across the picture. Lessee... where were those three chapels?
 
futterman
Posts: 1261
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:04 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:28 am

Nice find!

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
Runway 7/25 probably still in use then, running across the picture.

Do you know anything else about this runway? The "lead in lights" are still off to the side of the field, jutting out into Jamaica Bay.

Brian
What the FUTT?
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:35 am

And as I recall it seems like those lights aren't aligned with the center of the runway-- rather, the runways left edge. Zat possible?

Runway 7/25 ended up 10000 ft. Closed mid to late 1960s as I recall.

Now I see a couple more:

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=71666310&size=l

That National DC-8 at the bottom edge-- it's not at a terminal, right?

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=99939721&size=l

The last one says 1966. Looks like a Lufthansa 720B?

[Edited 2006-09-17 02:37:37]
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:47 am

Two more-- taken from the tower, probably?

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=99939698&size=l

Probably the Empire State Bldg in the distance, in the center of the pic. Looks like AA had a two-level roadway and United didn't?

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=99939748&size=l

[Edited 2006-09-17 02:48:13]

[Edited 2006-09-17 02:48:51]

[Edited 2006-09-17 02:51:08]
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 447
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:50 am

I think the plane beside the Alitalia DC-8 is a Qantas 707.

Does anybody agree?
 
ANITIX87
Posts: 2952
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:52 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:02 am

Hey guys. Great pictures. A few questions I have regarding the airport.

1) In the first picture linked, what present-day terminal is that?
2) What was the runway layout back then. I know today it's 4R/22L, 4L/22R, 13L/31R, and 13R/31L.
3) When was the name of the airport officially changed? I know there was the 50-year anniversary recently but I don't remember what year.
4) Who was/were the dominant airlines at the time the picture was taken?

Thanks!

TIS
www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:08 am

The first pic is looking directly at the IAB, which was replaced by Terminal 4.

Same runway layout then as now, except there was also 7/25 then, parallel to the IAB. And some runways were shorter.

I'll be darned-- I guess those three chapels weren't built at the time of the first pic? They would be in it, wouldn't they?
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:26 am

How about that BOAC in the third pic-- is that a Super VC-10 or a non-Super?
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4465
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 2):
That National DC-8 at the bottom edge-- it's not at a terminal, right?

It is parked at its terminal, yes. **Yes all you B6 freaks, your little virus' terminal WAS the National Airlines Sunport!**

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 5):
4) Who was/were the dominant airlines at the time the picture was taken

Pan Am, TWA, National, United, AA, Delta had a somewhat nice presence there, further boosted by the Northeast purchase.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:38 am

The NA DC-8 isn't at Terminal 6-- that hadn't been built yet. Look at other pics (not these pics-- maybe http://local.live.com ) and see how close Term 6 is to the TWA terminal.

[Edited 2006-09-17 03:40:10]
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4465
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 9):
The NA DC-8 isn't at Terminal 6-- that hadn't been built yet. Look at other pics (not these pics-- maybe http://local.live.com ) and see how close Term 6 is to the TWA terminal

That would roughly be where the West side of T6 is, innit?
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:48 am

Agreed the NA DC-8 is somewhere near where the west end of Terminal 6 is now-- so if Terminal 6 had existed at the time, it would be right in the middle of the pic.
 
SR100
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:43 pm

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting Timz (Reply 7):
How about that BOAC in the third pic-- is that a Super VC-10 or a non-Super?

It's a Super VC-10 because door 2L is aft of the wing. The "regular" VC-10 had 2L in front of the wing.

There is also a different location of 1L, but this is a little bit more difficult to see. On the VC-10, 1L was right after the flight deck, on the Super VC-10, the distance between flight deck and 1L is larger, because there was a toilet and some galley space.
My favourite planes flown: Lockheed 188 Electra, Tridents, VC-10, B-707, L-1011, A330, E90 + Concorde
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:36 pm

Hi!

Very nice pictures!!! I notices a few gems there:

1 - On the 2nd. picture I see a Vickers Viscount, maybe Capital?
2 - On the 3rd. picture I see a KL DC-8-30, a LH 720B a VC-10 and a PA 720B!
3 - On the 4th. picture I see a AA 720/707, and far away some 727's, 707's and even a L1049.
4 - On the 5th. picture I see on the far left side what it looks like a C-135 from USAF and on the right side a tip of an Aer Lingus 720 or 707 old livery!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2378
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:44 am

Excellent pics! JFK is one of my favorite airports....the pics look like they were taken yesterday....

AI was one of the smaller operators to JFK back in '62...wish I could have spotted one of their old B707's in one of these pics......
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 13):
1 - On the 2nd. picture I see a Vickers Viscount, maybe Capital?

Trans-Canada, I suspect.

The 707 in the first pic-- doesn't really look like Qantas, but can't think of anything better. CO wasn't flying to NY then-- not scheduled, anyway.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6600
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 8):
Pan Am, TWA, National, United, AA, Delta had a somewhat nice presence there, further boosted by the Northeast purchase.

Eastern, American
hey, if you've got your own terminal....


IIRC,
National, Trans Canada, Northwest, Braniff, Northeast were all in the same area on what is now T6. The latter 3 moved to what is now T2 when it opened.

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 5):
When was the name of the airport officially changed?

December 24, 1963
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:40 am

Pretty sure Term 2 was built some years before Term 6.

There are more (less interesting) pics from the same era-- at http://www.flickr.com search for "new york airport" or "idlewild airport 1962"

[Edited 2006-09-18 00:47:38]
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6600
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 17):
Pretty sure Term 2 was built some years before Term 6.

It was. I said "on what is now T6"
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:43 am

Okay-- "on the site where Term 6 would later be built" i.e. the Quonset-hut terminal in picture #2.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:56 am

In the 1966 pic with the VC-10, check out the position the LH drivers left their stab trim in on that pretty 707  Wink
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
milesrich
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:46 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:40 am

Its a Trans Canada Viscount, not a NE Viscount. The earlier picture shows the "Temporary Terminal" to the North of the TWA terminal. Both Connies appear to be L-1049G's. The 1049's were retired in early 1961, and the one facing head on looks like it has tip tanks. The other could be a 1649. It appears that the LH Boeing is a 707-330B. The outboard port engine on the 330B did not have a turbo compressor nor did the aircraft have a tail dorsal fin. Compare the length to the KLM DC-8-33. It's too long to be a 720. The Pan Am Aircraft is a 707-321B or 121B. Pan Am's four 720's came from LH. I wonder who that DC-7C at the IAB belongs to. It looks like it has a White "T" on the tail with a dark background. The other prop airplane is definitely a BOAC Britannia. Below the TC Viscount is the tail of a National DC-8. The aircraft next to the AZ DC-8-43 appears to belong to NWA, most likely a B-720-051B. Continental did not fly east of Chicago at that time.
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:06 pm

Hi!

Milesrich, you're right regarding the LH airplane, it's indeed a 707-330B, I can also notice the turbocompressor on the engine of "the other side" of the plane that it's barely noticeable. But I'm not so sure that the PA airplane cannot be a 720B, LH sold their 720B to PA in 1965 and if you look to KL livery, that actually match with the one of this picture:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence



Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
richierich
Posts: 3282
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:22 am

Timz - thanks for posting the links to these fascinating pictures! (For anybody who really knows JFK, this is very interesting!).

I had no idea about the chapels or the reflecting pool (which is so very '50s and '60s in nature!) What was the purpose of these chapels? Was it for people connecting flights or was it for the handling of airline tragedies? I can't believe it was the latter but I guess I am unclear on their purpose. I'm guessing the current control tower and various parking garages occupy this area today....
None shall pass!!!!
 
timz
Posts: 6084
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: 1962 (?) Shot Of Idlewild

Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 23):
I'm guessing the current control tower and various parking garages occupy this area today....

Probably the pic of the three chapels was taken from the old tower-- so the current tower is behind the photographer.

Looks like you're right about Lufthansa-- not a 720B. No idea about the PA.

[Edited 2006-09-18 18:31:56]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 817Dreamliiner, afterburner33, benrgv, BlueSky1976, BreninTW, JayJ, lhpdx, qf002, RRTrent, StTim, SXDFC, UAEflyer and 265 guests