FCKC
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4 777s For Royal Brunei

Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:23 pm

Strong rumors at Paris , tell Royal Brunei has bought 4 777-228ERs from Air France.Not known if these T7s are "real" Air France planes or ILFC returned planes.
One thing is sure , it's the beginning of the end for the 200ERs at AFR , since they upgrade some routes , particulary in Africa with 300ERs.
Will more 200ERs leave the fleet when more 300ERs will arrive ?Probably.
The end of the A340-300 at AFR is also in the pipeline.2 frames (F-GLZA and G) will go to Air Madrid next month.
 
jfk777
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:49 pm

Some A340 are now over 15 year old, with many newer airplanes in the 250-320 passenger area AF does better with the 777's.
 
dutchjet
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:59 pm

Interesting that AF is starting to rollover its widebody fleet.....I would assume that AF is simply not renewing leases on the four 772ERs that you mentioned.

Should we be expecting a new order from AF for more widebodies to cover the eventual replacement of the A340/772ER fleet? Will it be for additional A332s and 773ERs.....and/or is AF getting ready to make a choice between the 787 and A350XWB?
 
HB-IWC
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:46 am

I don't see how Air France could make such a move right now. They are not exactly enjoying an overabundance of widebody equipment. There are of course a couple of COI configured B744s that will be joining the mainline fleet as more B773ERs in COI configuration will arrive, but with the 2 A343s having to be replaced and another 2 B744s being converted to freighters, I wonder how four additional frames could possibly leave the fleet.

Apart from that, Air France is putting all 25 B772ERs through a cabin retrofit program as we speak, with 9 or 10 already completed. Why would the airline reconfigure aircraft that are about to leave the fleet in the first place?

Then there is the ongoing network expansion frequency reinforcement at Air France, with plans for additional service to North America, Brasil, Central America, China and others. Somehow, any reduction in B772ER frames in the short term will have to be somehow offset by a similar addition of alternative equipment.
 
jacobin777
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
.and/or is AF getting ready to make a choice between the 787 and A350XWB?

since GE is balking at building larger versions of the A350, it will be interesting to see what AF does....
"Up the Irons!"
 
FCKC
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:40 am

Air France is still studying both 787 and A350XWB , but probably we can't expect a decision in a short future.They take their time.
 
A342
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:22 am

I wonder why AF has not ordered the A333. The ideal aircraft for CDG-USA/Canada east coast or Africa routes, kick-ass commonality with A332/343...
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
dutchjet
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
I wonder why AF has not ordered the A333.

Simple - no need.....with their A332/A343/772ER/773ER/744 fleets, AF already has multiple options to match proper range and seating to their longhaul route system. While AF may (its not confirmed) be returning a handful of 772ERs off-lease, the type will be with AF for many years to come.....most expect the A343 fleet to be retired first.
 
777ER
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:38 am

Would be excellent news if true. Those T7s will look like awesome beautys in the yellow scheme of Royal Brunei.
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A342
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):

I think they have a need. For many routes, the A343 or 772ER is just too heavy.

But I think they won't order it anymore; they'll rather wait for the next-generation aircraft.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:06 am

If its true, good AF has too many spare a/c. I presume these would be the oldest T7's delivered around 98'.

MCOflyer
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fly_yhm
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:12 am

What route would thses 777 potential fly on.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
soups
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting Fly_yhm (Reply 11):
What route would thses 777 potential fly on.

UK and Australia
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
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Coal
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:31 am

Question: Why does Royal Brunei need the planes for? I mean, sure, I imagine quite a few tourists go to Bandar Seri Begawan, but do they really need 4 777s for that? I wonder how many Bruneians (sp?) can actually afford to fly.

Coal
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soups
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 13):
Question: Why does Royal Brunei need the planes for? I mean, sure, I imagine quite a few tourists go to Bandar Seri Begawan, but do they really need 4 777s for that? I wonder how many Bruneians (sp?) can actually afford to fly.

People from nearby Sarawak and Sabah can fly from Brunei instead of going to BKI and KCH, also a good number of people transfer from the UK to OZ/nz on their service
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
6thfreedom
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting Soups (Reply 12):
Quoting Fly_yhm (Reply 11):
What route would thses 777 potential fly on.

UK and Australia

I think the B777s would be used for non-stops to Uk and Germany, while the operating time of the B767s would be utilised for Middle East and additional Australian ops.

Strong rumour that BI will commence MEL ops in 2007...
 
Aviator27
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting Coal:

"I wonder how many Bruneians (sp?) can actually afford to fly."


Brunei is an oil and gas rich country. Their GDP per capita is $24,826 ranking 26th in the world. I also heard from some other sources that RBA will be training B777 crews in the near future. I can't say where they are getting their birds from though.

[Edited 2006-09-18 01:45:31]
 
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eta unknown
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:53 am

Coal- I assume you're joking with your above post as your profile says you reside in Singapore- i fthat's the case, surely you wouldn't post such an ignorant question about Brunei!

Tourists to Bandar Seri Begawan? Next to none, unless they have a day in transit flying RBA.
 
KL808
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:59 am

RBA does pretty well on the UK-Australia route, albeit a multitude of stops on the way. It is the one of the cheapest ways to get to Australia from the UK.

I would have thought that they would get A332's instead, but 777's seems like the proper aircraft for the route. If this is true expect RBA to cut DXB and BKK off the LHR and FRA route.

BTW RBA's scheme is beautiful.

Drew
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Coal
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting Aviator27 (Reply 16):
Brunei is an oil and gas rich country. Their GDP per capita is $24,826 ranking 26th in the world. I also heard from some other sources that RBA will be training B777 crews in the near future. I can't say where they are getting their birds from though.

Saudi Arabia is also an oil rich country, but most of its citizens are dirt poor. Brunei is the same case.

Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 17):
Tourists to Bandar Seri Begawan? Next to none, unless they have a day in transit flying RBA.

Hence my question as to why the need for so many 777s.

Coal
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elmothehobo
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:28 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 19):
Saudi Arabia is also an oil rich country, but most of its citizens are dirt poor. Brunei is the same case.

Saudi Arabia's per capita income is 1/3 that of Brunei. When calculating the Saudi Arabia's GDP, foreign nationals residing in the kingdom are factored - many of whom make terrible wages. I have read that the real per capita GDP is something along 12,000 USD, not huge but relatively high.

Saying most of Saudi Arabia's citizens are dirt poor is quite an extreme. It is a very wealthy country, but like every country there are poor people.
 
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Coal
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 20):
Saying most of Saudi Arabia's citizens are dirt poor is quite an extreme. It is a very wealthy country, but like every country there are poor people.

It is extreme if you take into account the n thousand members of the house of Al Sa'ud. Substract them from the rest of the country and you have a starving population who do nothing else but go to Mosques and schools run by Wahabbis... but that's a different story for a thread in non-av.

Coal
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PolymerPlane
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:24 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 19):
Saudi Arabia is also an oil rich country, but most of its citizens are dirt poor. Brunei is the same case.

No, Brunei is no the same case. The people there are rich, with a lot of subsidy comes from the oil money. Most of the people there do not even want to go to school anymore because of the oil money. Even the Sultan realizes this and gives more incentive for it's people to learn science and stuff. Among the south east asian nations, Brunei people are probably one of the richest after Singaporeans.

Cheers,
PP
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eta unknown
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:37 pm

Coal- your ignorance is amazing. Brunei is an oil-rich welfare state with a very small population of under 350,000. Bruneians can probably afford to fly a lot easier than US citizens!!!
 
bravo45
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 21):

How many times have you been to KSA and Brunei and how much time did you spent?
Thanks for the laughs BTW.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:20 pm

Perhaps the Sultanate of Brunei is looking at performing a similar tourism miracle as that of the Emirate of Dubai?

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
6thfreedom
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:30 pm

Will the B772s as proposed have the legs for LHR-BWN and FRA-BWN on a non-stop basis??

From To Distance
LHR BWN 7015 mi
FRA BWN 6677 mi
 
Motorhussy
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:57 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 26):
Will the B772s as proposed have the legs for LHR-BWN and FRA-BWN on a non-stop basis??

777-228ERs? Yes and easily - return and year round.



BWN is marginally further than MNL.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
6thfreedom
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:04 pm

Thanks MH!

I certainly hope they are used to expand rather than replace..
 
psimpson
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:30 pm

I believe AF will keep the A340s that are the 313x version for the forseeable future. Only the A340-312s model which were all sold to ILFC and leased back will be leaving the AF fleet at the moment.
 
keno
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:01 pm

Those 777 would surely come in handy for nonstop services between Brunei and LHR, which have always been operated via Dubai. MH and SQ ceased their Middle East stopover point to Europe aeons ago.
 
fly_yhm
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting Coal (Reply 13):
Question: Why does Royal Brunei need the planes for? I mean, sure, I imagine quite a few tourists go to Bandar Seri Begawan, but do they really need 4 777s for that? I wonder how many Bruneians (sp?) can actually afford to fly

Not everyone would fly into Brunei Connectiong would be big. I have flow BNE-BWN-Kota Kinabalu

Quoting Coal (Reply 19):
Saudi Arabia is also an oil rich country, but most of its citizens are dirt poor. Brunei is the same case.

I know its been said but this comment is far from true. Very Lovely country majority of te people have very nice houses the shopping centers are large and flashy. Everyone drive a great car etc. Spent 4 days there last august.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
MCOflyer
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:37 pm

I hope Royal Brunei gets those a/c. The 772ER will lokk great in their livery.

MCOflyer

[Edited 2006-09-18 14:37:41]
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
columba
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 6):
I wonder why AF has not ordered the A333. The ideal aircraft for CDG-USA/Canada east coast or Africa routes, kick-ass commonality with A332/343...

Didn´t they had some -300s from Air Inter for some time.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
A342
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 33):

Yes, but those were early, high-density domestic models. They were the first A330s to be built and probably had a low MTOW.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Leskova
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 27):
Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 26):
Will the B772s as proposed have the legs for LHR-BWN and FRA-BWN on a non-stop basis??

777-228ERs? Yes and easily - return and year round.

They have the "legs" - but BI would have to be quite blind if they were to cut the BKK stop from the FRA flights: FRA-BKK accounts for quite a large part of the passengers they carry ex FRA.

So if they're not planning on flying half-empty (or worse) planes around, they'll simply be routing the B777s from FRA the same way they're routing the B767s now: FRA-BKK-BWN.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Motorhussy
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 35):
They have the "legs" - but BI would have to be quite blind if they were to cut the BKK stop from the FRA flights: FRA-BKK accounts for quite a large part of the passengers they carry ex FRA.

So if they're not planning on flying half-empty (or worse) planes around, they'll simply be routing the B777s from FRA the same way they're routing the B767s now: FRA-BKK-BWN.

Good point Frank.
come visit the south pacific
 
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eta unknown
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:54 am

Unfortunately, RBA pays TG significant royalties to operate FRA-BKK (I don't know the exact figure). However, this payment would be better than flying FRA-BWN and having pax backtrack to BKK as correctly stated above, at least 75% of RBA's FRA originating pax are only BKK bound.
 
vincewy
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting Coal (Reply 13):
I wonder how many Bruneians (sp?) can actually afford to fly.

Brunei is one of the 3 countries in Asia (Japan and Singapore the other 2) that the citizens do not need visa to go to US. In fact, it's the only Muslim state that can go to US under such exemption. The reason? Wealth, they have oil and natural gas, all citizens receive comprehensive education and health care services, in fact, they're much better off than average US citizens.

The new 777s will allow nonstop to LHR and FRA, I was hoping they'd reopen the link to CCU. They've been trying to get more frequencies to SYD and MEL as well.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:44 am

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 38):
They've been trying to get more frequencies to SYD and MEL as well.

Correct.
I think talks are pending. BI currently has entitlements for 4pw to SYD/MEL, but wants this to increase to 5pw, then daily...
 
Motorhussy
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:05 pm

It would appear to me that Brunei and their airline are in a great position to be a wonderful link between Europe and Australasia, plus being able to provide one stop links to much of Asia for guests from beyond - like getting Europeans to Bali and New Zealanders to IndoChina.

From looking at their Tourism Brunei website http://www.tourismbrunei.com/ it looks like they have developed a sound and robust tourism strategy which they are beginning to implement. It's also obvious that there is significant interest and investment in the infrastructure necessary to develop and maintain a sustainable future in an industry other beyond fossil fuel.

Dubai's doing it. Nauru squandered their opportunity. Brunei - go you good thing.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
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eta unknown
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:58 pm

Ah yes- Tourism Brunei- don't believe everything you read, especially in Brunei (and don't believe a thing in the Borneo Bulletin)!. The Govt. pays lip service to tourism- they really have no intention of developing it to any potential; however, in the ASEAN and BIMP-EAGA political world, it was something the Govt. felt they could easily impliment if you catch what I mean thereby saying they have made inroads into developing it. Sort of like making a marketing plan even though you have no intention of following it- but it's on paper and it's there.
 
ZuluTime
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:53 pm

The new 777s for RBA are not ex-Air France, they are the original four ex British Airways 777A aircraft. Might make something of a difference on the range capabilities of the aircraft.
 
Johnny
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:00 pm

@ZuluTime

Oh my goodness...
 
ZuluTime
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RE: 4 777s For Royal Brunei

Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:15 pm

Further news - I had been told they were coming from Varig and that much was true; but they are not the BA 777As. They are four ex-United ones (PP-VRE/VRF/VRI/VRJ) which have been in Varig up to its collapse, apparently all needing engines.

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