727LOVER
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FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:55 am

Since 1974, I think, there have only been 4 brand new airports for commercial use. DFW,DEN, RSW, XNA

Here comes the 5th:



http://www.sptimes.com/2006/09/16/State/Panama_City_airport_o.shtml
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emseeeye
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Since 1974, I think, there have only been 4 brand new airports for commercial use.

Thats probably one of the only downsides of airline deregulation. A corroding infrastructure with a very slow amount of buildout.
 
AirCop
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:40 am

And again why does Panama City need that big of an airport?
 
flyingfool
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:29 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
And again why does Panama City need that big of an airport?

Maybe because EK plans to fly there with the A380 in a few years???

Regards, Flyingfool
 
RobertS975
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:50 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Since 1974, I think, there have only been 4 brand new airports for commercial use. DFW,DEN, RSW, XNA

Haven't there been situations where a de-commissioned AFB has been taken over to use as the area's commercial field? Places like SMF or even MCO? Not sure on the timing though.
 
N1120A
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:31 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 5):
Haven't there been situations where a de-commissioned AFB has been taken over to use as the area's commercial field? Places like SMF or even MCO? Not sure on the timing though.

SMF was build from the ground up as a commercial airport, it was never an AFB. Further, it opened in 1967
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AeroWesty
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:36 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 5):
Haven't there been situations where a de-commissioned AFB has been taken over to use as the area's commercial field?

Austin-Bergstrom in 2000 comes to mind.
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DAL767400ER
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:03 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Since 1974, I think, there have only been 4 brand new airports for commercial use. DFW,DEN, RSW, XNA

Theorethically, you could add ATL. Except for 08R/26L, 1 of the DL hangars, and some concrete north of the runways, the current ATL doesn't have anything in common with the old ATL airport.
 
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Goodbye
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:08 pm

Sorry, why does Panama need FAA approval to open an airport? I'm confused???
 
KaiGywer
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:11 pm

Quoting Goodbye (Reply 8):
Sorry, why does Panama need FAA approval to open an airport? I'm confused???

Panama City, Florida, not Panama City, Panama  Smile
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
c680
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:56 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
And again why does Panama City need that big of an airport?

St. Joe's compay is a major real estate developer in the Florida Panhandle (Panama City area) they have believed for a long time that a large airport with better commercial service will allow them to develop the Florida panhandle into a major destination area. The weather is good year-round, and there is still plenty of ocean front property available (property that they own!)

First you get the airport.
Then you get the flights.
Then you get the people.
Then you get paid.
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MCOflyer
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:51 pm

I'm glad Panama city will get a new airport. If its making money, then good. We'll see what happens.

MCOflyer
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N1120A
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:53 pm

Quoting C680 (Reply 10):
The weather is good year-round

Yeah right. Ivan, Frances, Charley and Katrina might disagree, as will the heat index when you add up all the humidity.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jeffrey1970
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:00 pm

There are few things more controversial in local politics, then airport projects.
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SurferX
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:48 pm

Are there any pictures of concept art or something for this? I didn't see any in the story...

Just curious...
 
SkepticAll
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:02 am

Panama City needs a new airport? What do they intend on calling this new boondoggle...........Airfield of Dreams? If you build it, they will come? It's going to be pretty hard to convince folks that just by adding a new facility, it will generate the traffic and revenue needed to justify the costs associated with the construction of an airfield to supplant an existing airfield that is currently under-utilized.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
And again why does Panama City need that big of an airport?

Service at Panama City interacts with Tyndall Air Force Base Air Space and Tyndall is the traning base for the F-22 Raptor, service to Fort Walton Beach is joint-use at Eglin which is slated to be the training base for the Joint Strike Fighter. The new airport is located between the two markets and will serve them well into the future and eliminate their dependence on the military bases.

[Edited 2006-09-18 17:16:33]
 
B777LR
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:16 am

Rsw just opened a brand new airport last year with three times more gates. The old terminal has been completely demolished.
 
thunder9
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:02 am

In a nonbinding referendum in 2004, Bay County voters rejected the airport relocation proposal 54 percent to 46 percent even though the ballot wording said it would not cost taxpayers anything. In fact, state and federal tax dollars would be used.

This quote from the article really amazes me on two points...

1. Local voters rejected the project, yet the politicians & business leaders are stoopid enough to go against the voters wishes.

2. Politicians & business leaders are stoopid enough to try to make the local voters think that it will come at now cost to them, but from state and federal tax dollars. Now where do those tax dollars come from??

Is the local government is that area really this foolish?  eyepopping 

-J
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Boeing7E7
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting Thunder9 (Reply 18):
Now where do those tax dollars come from??

This is an odd issue with regard to this airport in the way the funding is described. The airport can get FAA money from user fees, but doesn't have taxing authority. The state/local funds are not for the airport itself, but for the roads.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting B777LR (Reply 17):
Rsw just opened a brand new airport last year with three times more gates. The old terminal has been completely demolished.

That was just the terminal, this project is the ENTIRE airport.

I saw the location a while back and i IIRC it is rather far from The Panama City Beach area. I also dont recall it being too close to VPS. Hopefull that will not deter too many pax.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
FLALEFTY
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:26 am

http://www.pcairport.com/airportinfo_stats.htm

Here are some stats from PFM's website that makes a fairly weak case for a new airport. Passenger growth has been fairly modest since 1998. And the estimated population of the Bay County-Panama City MSA is less than 150,000 and growing only at a low, single-digit pace.

Where they are planning to build the new airport (the so-called "West Bay" area) is relatively unpopulated, with few good roads. Even with new roads, it will still require a relatively-long drive from the proposed airport location into downtown Panama City and the beach resort areas along the Gulf.

I'm not sure that either major airline with ties to the market (DL and NW) have any immediate plans to upgrade this market to mainline service, even with the new airport.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 21):
Here are some stats from PFM's website that makes a fairly weak case for a new airport. Passenger growth has been fairly modest since 1998. And the estimated population of the Bay County-Panama City MSA is less than 150,000 and growing only at a low, single-digit pace.

The airport is merging two markets, joint use at Eglin (VPS) will end to support Joint Strike Fighter Training (ultimately freeing up Miramar for an airport in San Diego) as will service at Panama City Airport (PFN) . The net demand is over 1 million passengers. 776,000 passengers from Valparaiso (Ft. Walton/Eglin) and 380,000 from Panama City. The net combination will place them in the middle of small hub airports like Billings and Santa Barbara, about the size of Fresno in rankings. The two airports being combined are 38 miles apart. $300 million is chump change for it's vast impact on the system as a whole. Panama City passengers will have an additional 12 miles to drive. It is 28 miles from Ft. Walton Beach. State funding is being provided to improve the highway width from Ft. Walton to the new airport.

Quoting Thunder9 (Reply 18):
Local voters rejected the project, yet the politicians & business leaders are stoopid enough to go against the voters wishes.

History shows that on major infrastructure issues that they don't understand until the issue becomes a real problem, voters are complete flipping idiots and are completely incapable of grasping long term implications, as are some politicians who have their hands in particular cookie jars of campaign funding.

[Edited 2006-09-18 21:15:10]
 
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Coal
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:36 am

I guess they might try to lure passengers from TLH as well. Of course, they will only succeed if a) They offer non-stop service to cities other than ATL, Central Florida, and South Florida, and b) They offer prices that are at least half of those charged by DL on any of its flights!

Coal
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FlyPNS1
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 22):
The airport is merging two markets, joint use at Eglin (VPS) will end to support Joint Strike Fighter Training (ultimately freeing up Miramar for an airport in San Diego) as will service at Panama City Airport (PFN) .

Last I heard, Ft. Walton (VPS) had not agreed to this merger and was not going to move operations to the new airport. In fact, VPS just opened a brand new terminal building last year.

While I think merging the two is a good idea, cities are often hesitant to lose control of their local airport and their local identity.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:46 am

VPS has a great terminal, with a nice layout that should really be a good model for alot of small airports with a 50/50 split between RJ/ Mainline mix.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 24):
Last I heard, Ft. Walton (VPS) had not agreed to this merger and was not going to move operations to the new airport. In fact, VPS just opened a brand new terminal building last year.

They aren't going to have a choice in the matter. Eglin is the designated Joint Services Fighter training facility that breaks ground in 2008 and opens in 2012.
 
brilondon
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Yeah right. Ivan, Frances, Charley and Katrina might disagree, as will the heat index when you add up all the humidity.

This is true any where in Florida as it is a peninsula that sticks out in to the Gulf of Mexico
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FlyPNS1
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 26):
They aren't going to have a choice in the matter. Eglin is the designated Joint Services Fighter training facility that breaks ground in 2008 and opens in 2012.

VPS has operated commercial flights in tandem with military flights for decades. I'm not sure how being a JSF training facility would change that, other than the volume of military flights may increase.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 28):
VPS has operated commercial flights in tandem with military flights for decades. I'm not sure how being a JSF training facility would change that, other than the volume of military flights may increase

The volume will jump to about 300,000 flights, and have the addition of carrier landing practice for the Navy and Harrier type operations for the Marine Corps. Eglin is going to change dramatically.
 
tootallsd
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting Thunder9 (Reply 18):
In a nonbinding referendum in 2004, Bay County voters rejected the airport relocation proposal 54 percent to 46 percent even though the ballot wording said it would not cost taxpayers anything. In fact, state and federal tax dollars would be used.

We all realize where state and federal tax dollars come from? Right? I mean some taxpayer somewhere contributed those dollars. The lowest form of legislation -- that which is free.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting Tootallsd (Reply 30):
We all realize where state and federal tax dollars come from? Right? I mean some taxpayer somewhere contributed those dollars. The lowest form of legislation -- that which is free.

Airport funding comes from Aviation users not the general Federal, State or Local Budget derived form Income Tax. You pay taxes when you fly that pay for aviation. If you don't fly, you don't pay for it.
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:29 am

I see it as the FAA having extra money sitting around. Instead of using for something good (or area's that could us the money) they are just throwing it away on Panama City. They do not need an airport that big. Maybe a little bigger then what they have now, but not bigger the TPA. This is just crazy. Give the Feds some extra money and they will blow it on something stupid.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 32):
I see it as the FAA having extra money sitting around. Instead of using for something good (or area's that could us the money) they are just throwing it away on Panama City. They do not need an airport that big. Maybe a little bigger then what they have now, but not bigger the TPA. This is just crazy. Give the Feds some extra money and they will blow it on something stupid.

$300 million for a new airport with a standard 8,400' runway to support 737's and A320's in a combined market where one airport is Joint-Use and the other has a curfew is a drop in the bucket. It called having long term vision. Do you honestly think that area is suddenly going to vanish and not need a new airport in the future? More cities should think this way. We wouldn't have half our capacity problems if they did.
 
BlazingCessna
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:02 am

Here is the relocation website.

http://pcairport.bechtel.com/

I live here and am a pilot. The biggest reason is teh fact that the runway is as long as it can get in the airports current location. There are inadequate RSA's and the whole damn thing is just outta place where it is now.
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lightsaber
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 22):
The two airports being combined are 38 miles apart.

I didn't realize that two small airports were being combined to provide one larger airport. This "tidbit" makes the new airport much more viable in my mind. While it will not be a DFW market, its plain to me that the current Panama city is too small a site to suport FAA service. By having a unified airport with a longer runway, the organic growth rate of the region will increase.  Smile

Did anyone else notice the new airport is planned as a 3 runway airport (after growth)? Personally, I'm glad they're putting in a large "nature presserve" as a noise buffer.  Smile There needs to be more room.

http://www.techtransfer.berkeley.edu...0city%20airport%20plan%20runway%22

With the consolodation of VPS and PFN this seems like an ok addition.

I'm more excited to see where SAN2 is located or to see the start of construction of LAS2 (Ivanpah valley airport), but one thing at a time.

Lightsaber
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Boeing7E7
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 35):
I'm more excited to see where SAN2 is located

Might need a couple more political cycles and airport congestion in San Diego for this to happen. It'll be Miramar, its more an issue of how and when, not where. For now, the technical work is done that won't have to be re-done, only updated until Miramar goes bye bye in the 2013 BRAC when the war has passed and politicians aren't affraid of sounding like anti-war mongers in a military community. That and a few Ospreys have landed in a few off site locations.

[Edited 2006-09-19 00:23:32]
 
TPASXM787
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:55 am

Hopefully this new airport will work out, becuase that whole area is in the boonies. But if all this about Elgin is correct then it sounds like it is needed. I'm sure it will be great.

My fiancee is in airport ops at RSW and the new terminal is awesome. Really did a hell of a job on it. They are now resurfacing 6/24 and have a temp 10,000 ft runway.
This is the Last Stop.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting TPASXM787 (Reply 37):
But if all this about Elgin is correct then it sounds like it is needed. I'm sure it will be great.

2005 BRAC and Eglin:

Realign Luke Air Force Base, AZ, by relocating to Eglin Air Force Base, FL, a sufficient number of instructor pilots and operations support personnel to stand up the Air Force’s portion of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) Initial Joint Training Site, hereby established at Eglin Air Force Base, FL.

Realign Marine Corps Air Station Miramar, CA, by relocating to Eglin Air Force Base, FL, a sufficient number of instructor pilots and operations support personnel to stand up the Marine Corps’ portion of the JSF Initial Joint Training Site, hereby established at Eglin Air Force Base, FL.

Realign Naval Air Station Oceana, VA, by relocating to Eglin Air Force Base, FL, a sufficient number of instructor pilots, operations, and maintenance support personnel to stand up the Navy’s portion of the JSF Initial Joint Training Site, hereby established at Eglin Air Force Base, FL.

Realign Sheppard Air Force Base, TX, by relocating to Eglin Air Force Base, FL, a sufficient number of frontline and instructor-qualified maintenance technicians and logistics support personnel to stand up the Air Force’s portion of the JSF Initial Joint Training Site, hereby established at Eglin Air Force Base, FL.

Realign Naval Air Station Pensacola, FL, by relocating to Eglin Air Force Base, FL, a sufficient number of frontline and instructor-qualified maintenance technicians and logistics support personnel to stand up the Department of the Navy’s portion of the JSF Initial Joint Training Site hereby established at Eglin Air Force Base, FL.

Page 6 - all kinds of stuff headed to Eglin - ought to cause a bump in air service for the region as well:

http://www.brac.gov/docs/final/Chap1JCSGEducationandTraining.pdf

[Edited 2006-09-19 02:25:06]
 
FLALEFTY
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:54 pm

http://pcairport.bechtel.com/Documents.asp?act=get&file=3076

Here's a PDF handout from Bechtel that shows the new airport plans, etc..

It looks like they are trying to copy RSW - which has worked out pretty well in SW Florida by tying together the Lee and Collier County air markets together. I remember when they were planning RSW, it caught heat for being located part-way into the Everglades, sending the environmentalists into a mad frenzy.

Also interesting to note that a joint-use with Tyndall AFB was considered as a replacement for PFN, but rejected.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: FAA Approves USA's Newest Commercial Airport

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 39):
Also interesting to note that a joint-use with Tyndall AFB was considered as a replacement for PFN, but rejected.

That was a non starter. Panama City would implode without Tyndall and the number of operations (from F-15 and F-22 training) makes Joint Use impossible.

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