Lumberton
Topic Author
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China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:01 pm

"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
GEnxPower
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:22 am

Yes. It is the latest announcement.

This completes the Boeing 787 engine selections for the Chinese Airlines.

Only Air China went with Rolls Royce's Trent 1000. ( 15 aircrafts )

China Eastern ( 15 ), China Southern (10 ) Shanghai ( 9 ), and Hainan ( 8 ) decided to select General Electric's GEnx-1B.

I believe Xiamen Airlines cancelled their ( 3 ) B787 orders.

The next Boeing 787 engine battle will be the highly anticipated Qantas selection, with a decision expected towards the end of this year.

[Edited 2006-09-18 17:23:26]
 
raggi
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:34 am

Good news for GE, bad news for RR and PM... =)

QF's decision will be very exciting...

raggi
Stick & Rudder
 
DAYflyer
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:59 am

Yes, GE also announced this today on AM700 in Cincinnati. Does anyone now the new totalls ordered for each engine? Who has the upper hand so far, RR or Genx?
One Nation Under God
 
AirbusA6
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:49 am

GE must be well ahead by now.

It would be interesting to see how airlines chose their powerplant, especially in country where the government still has a major say

For example, all A330s in China will be RR powered, indeed Hainan only chose the Trent a few weeks ago, so can't have switched supplier due to poor experience!

If, for the sake of the argument, the GEnx was much better than the T1000, then why didn't Air China choose it as well? The mysteries of commerce and politics...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
PM
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:51 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 4):
GE must be well ahead by now.

163 to 110, I believe.

Well, I'm quite stunned by China Eastern. I wonder if there's still time to cancel the two flights I have booked with them for next month...?

I'd really expected a more or less 50:50 split between RR and GE. But maybe that's the point - GE were given most of the 787s to compensate RR's clean sweep of the A330. Who knows?

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 4):
It would be interesting to see how airlines chose their powerplant, especially in country where the government still has a major say

Mmmmm, interesting.  Sad
 
Skookum
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting Raggi (Reply 2):
Good news for GE, bad news for RR and PM... =)



Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 4):
GE must be well ahead by now.

Boy, I hope BOE773 doesn't read this...
Good flying
 
ksupilot
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:38 am

What are the major differences between the GENx and the Trent 1000?
 
Lumberton
Topic Author
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:17 am

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 7):
What are the major differences between the GENx and the Trent 1000?

Lightsaber did some great posts on this awhile back. Do a search on the engines or on his posts.
Also, Wikipedia has details. Good place to start.

[Edited 2006-09-19 03:22:57]
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
BOE773
Posts: 413
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:36 am

Well now he has seen it  smile 

Wiki are keeping a tally but sometimes they are slow to update the numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamliner

I'd say the GEnx are capturing most of the plumb carriers so far.
 
BOE773
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:01 am

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 7):

This will give you some info about the GEnx engine.

http://www.geae.com/engines/commercial/genx/index.html
 
GEnxPower
Posts: 112
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:16 am

I'm thinking US's HUGE trade defecit with China must have influenced the decision a bit. It might have been a significant factor, IMHO, with both countries trying to balance surplus-defecit numbers.

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 7):
What are the major differences between the GENx and the Trent 1000?

Just as any GE engine vs RR engine in the past 2 decades, GEnx is 2 spool engine while Trent 1000 has 3 spools. Trent once again has shrouded HPT blades, compared to GEnx non-shrouded HPT blade design (cantilevered).

GEnx features next generation of composite fan blade technology from GE90's. We are extending that technology to even the fan case, with GEnx becoming the world's first engine with fully composite fan blades and fan case.

I'm not sure on this point, but I believe Trent 1000 has titanium alloy fan blades and fan case.

These are just some points on top of my head. There are so much more.
Every design feature mentioned here could be argued over for its pro's and con's and engineering trade-offs.
 
PM
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 7):
What are the major differences between the GENx and the Trent 1000?

The GEnx has sold more...  Sad
 
ikramerica
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 9):
Wiki are keeping a tally but sometimes they are slow to update the numbers.

You can update it any time you feel like it...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
BOE773
Posts: 413
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:42 pm

The GEnx series will also be more fuel efficient in all flt regimes than the Trent series.

RR engines are more prone to airflow instability towards the rear stages of the HPC, (Hi Pressure Compressor) as the design requires a longer HPC spool resulting in a more complex airflow which increases the probability of airflow stall. In twin spool designs such as GE and Pratt engines, the stall margin is wider.
 
BOE773
Posts: 413
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
You can update it any time you feel like it...

Would you like me to tweak the red ones up some more?
 
jben
Posts: 64
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:23 pm

Excuse me, you *know* that the GeNX will be superior to the Trent 1000, how precisely? You have access to the engineering data at GE and Rolls Royce? Also, both engines are still in testing... the developmental engine is not necessarily representative of the final production article anyways.

Really? RR engines are more prone to it? You know this, how exactly? You're wrong and the three spool design is an excellent design that reduces weight dramatically. The difference between GE90's and Trents on the 777 shows that even at similar thrust production, the two trent turbines weigh substaintially less than the GE90. It's not an accident that on the 772, the Trent 877/895 are actually the best selling engines... Maybe you'd like to comment on the PW4080? How's that selling?
 
BOE773
Posts: 413
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:11 pm

From the GE website.

The GEnx is the best-selling engine for the Boeing 787.
Selected for three new wide-body aircraftunder development,
the GEnx has orders exceeding 750 engines.

http://www.geae.com/aboutgeae/presscenter/genx/genx_20060918.html
 
jben
Posts: 64
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:28 pm

Yes, we get that it's the best selling thus far.

I'm also a little concerned that you seem to be plagiarising without giving credit to the source. With phrases like "complex airflow which increases the probability of airflow stall" that seem to originate from this article at wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Trent . Conveniently, however, you skip the last part of the line "making the engine's airflow very stable over a wide range of spool speeds".
 
PM
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:38 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 17):
The GEnx is the best-selling engine for the Boeing 787.

Yes, it is for now but it's still very early days. At this stage of the 777 programme the PW4000 was in the lead and the GE90 trailed in third place... I wouldn't draw too many conclusions this early. (And, yes, I'd say the same thing even if RR were in the lead right now.)

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 17):
Selected for three new wide-body aircraftunder development,

True enough but things are never quite that simple. Was it ever really likely that Boeing would offer the next generation of 747 with only a non-US engine? Once they had opted for a single-source and a 787 engine, the GEnx was always likely to win that race. And as for the A350, the RR Trent has also been chosen and may now be in the stronger position following the launch of the XWB. None of this is to deny that the GEnx is a fine engine and has won lots of orders on merit but that's not the whole story.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:16 pm

Originally, the T1000 took the lead for the 787, with the GEnx being the dominant engine on the A350, giving a nice international mix of frames and engines.

Subsequently, GE has taken most 787 orders, but with the redesign of the A350, and it's refusal to power all versions, may lose the A350XWB lead to RR instead...

The Chinese orders are slightly curious, in that a clean sweep for an engine, or a 50/50 split was expected, but then maybe the individual carriers have more autonomy than we thought...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
gaut
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 20):
Subsequently, GE has taken most 787 orders, but with the redesign of the A350, and it's refusal to power all versions, may lose the A350XWB lead to RR instead...

I wouldn't bet that GE will not develop a new engine for the heavier A350....

Gaut
«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
 
AirbusA6
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RE: China Eastern Selects GENx For 15 787s

Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Gaut (Reply 21):
I wouldn't bet that GE will not develop a new engine for the heavier A350....

They've been quite definite so far, after all they could easily have said they was 'investigating the possibility' if they wanted to hedge their bets. The investment in the 77W being a major reason...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)