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Buyantukhaa
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Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:45 am

As part of a deal improving conditions in Gibraltar, civil flights are no more restricted:

The deal - signed in the Spanish city of Cordoba - will open up Gibraltar to flights from Spain and other European countries.

Up until now, Spain has only allowed flights to Gibraltar from Britain.

Commercial aircraft will no longer need to perform complicated approaches to avoid using Spanish airspace, although Madrid has not eased restrictions for military flights.


Good news for the people of Gibraltar.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5355942.stm
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ORD14R
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:43 am

I thought it interesting that Gibraltar will also build a new terminal. The airport is very tiny...the only runway I've ever crossed on foot.

For anyone who speaks Spanish, El Pais has a detailed article on the topic.

What are some potential destinations, aside from Madrid and London?
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 1):
the only runway I've ever crossed on foot.

Yes... Would the potentially increased traffic justify a tunnel under the runway? Oh no wait, I want this situation to stay - it is unique!

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 1):
El Pais has a detailed article on the topic

Interesting article. It says, amongst others, that the new terminal will actually be built partly on Spanish territory, but that the only access will remain from the Gibraltar side, so passngers may still have to pass checkpoints twice. As El Pais says, there are still some things left to be negotiated.

As to which destinations may become possible now, that's a very interesting question. Right now Monarch flies to LTN and GB Airways to LGW, so there's a lot of potential, besides the obvious MAD. Does this mean that Gibraltar would now be able to have an unlimited number of flights within the EU, or would that still be regulatorily restricted?

Edit: BBC has more:

It seems that the airport issue is the one getting most people excited.

Until now, the only commercial flights landing in Gibraltar come from Britain - operated by the British Ministry of Defence (MoD).
[the airport, not the flights]

Madrid has not allowed planes from Spanish airports to land there. This has caused a headache for airlines Monarch and GB Airways - not least when weather problems have forced flights to be diverted. ("At the moment working out of Gibraltar is frankly an operational nightmare", Tim Jeans, Monarch Airlines). It has meant passengers from diverted planes having to be bussed into Gibraltar or, in extreme cases, planes having to land in Tangiers in Morocco, and then later fly into the British colony.

"In general terms this deal is very good news because at the moment working out of Gibraltar is frankly an operational nightmare," said Monarch managing director Tim Jeans. "We've frequently considered stopping the service altogether because it has proved so difficult to operate." Monarch is at loggerheads with the Gibraltar government and the MoD, which operates the runway, over what it describes as "excessive" landing fees.

Having scrapped its service between Manchester and Gibraltar earlier this year, Mr Jeans said it was too early to look at potential new routes but added that the changes made the future rosier.

"This is probably the single most significant development for decades."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5357864.stm

[Edited 2006-09-19 00:43:32]
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LTU932
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 2):
Does this mean that Gibraltar would now be able to have an unlimited number of flights within the EU, or would that still be regulatorily restricted?

Who knows. If this means Openskies, then probably yes. What I do hope is that with this move, the airspace restrictions regarding overflight of Spain in flight to Gibraltar is lifted. I recall that currently, aircraft that fly to Gibraltar have to fly over International Airspace and avoid Spain. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
JoFMO
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:06 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 2):
which operates the runway, over what it describes as "excessive" landing fees

Landing fees are 5times as high as in Malaga for example. Thats due to the fact that Gibraltar is operated by the MoD and mainly an military airport. They don"t have to look for the price.
 
USAFHummer
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:31 pm

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_6399.shtml

This article says that MAD-GIB flights will start in December, and that the new terminal will have entrances in both Spain and Gibraltar (something like BSL, I imagine?)

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Toulouse
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:58 pm

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 1):
What are some potential destinations, aside from Madrid and London?

I know a new lowcost Gib based start-up plannning to start operations in March 2007 has already announced destinations throughout the UK and the Republic of Ireland... I think they are planning Dublin and Cork, along with an array of UK destinations. I think I heard IB are also planning BCN. Gib is ideal not only for Gibraltar, but for the popular holiday destinations in the area, many of which are closer to GIB than the already very crowded AGP (Malaga).
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:14 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 3):
What I do hope is that with this move, the airspace restrictions regarding overflight of Spain in flight to Gibraltar is lifted. I recall that currently, aircraft that fly to Gibraltar have to fly over International Airspace and avoid Spain.

That is exactly what happened. So no more restrictions. I am not sure if in the old situation, aircraft were not allowed to fly over Spain at all, or whether they had to climb to a certain altitude in order to pass.
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mozart
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:40 pm

Can anyone direct me to an approach map of GIbraltar airport? I would like to see the current approach routes. The map section in the Spanish AIC only has some text for Gibraltar, and in the UK one there is nothing at all.

Any other place?

Thanks
 
TriStar500
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:28 pm

I think the political implications of this move are far more important than the aviation-related ones, because this step signals the end to the "cold-war situation" between Spain and the UK in terms of Gibraltar.
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:55 pm

Quoting Mozart (Reply 8):
Can anyone direct me to an approach map of GIbraltar airport? I would like to see the current approach routes.

http://virtualskies.net/cvars/downlo...22%22approach%20chart%22%20LXGB%22
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timboflier215
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:18 pm

When I flew into GIB this summer, we flew over Spain, but we had to stay at a certain altitude I think 'cos we spent quite a while flyinf the wrong way out over the Med before crossing into Spain.
 
columbia107
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 2):
Quoting ORD14R (Reply 1):
El Pais has a detailed article on the topic

Interesting article. It says, amongst others, that the new terminal will actually be built partly on Spanish territory, but that the only access will remain from the Gibraltar side, so passngers may still have to pass checkpoints twice. As El Pais says, there are still some things left to be negotiated.

The official communique does not state that the new terminal will be built in Spain.

It states that "A single air terminal (“the terminal”) adjoining the southern side of the fence/frontier will be built, in the appropriate manner as decided by the Gibraltar Government, to enable passengers and their luggage access to and from such terminal directly to/from the north side of the fence/frontier."

Since the decision as to where the terminal will be built will be taken by the Gibraltar Government it can only be built in Gibraltar territory i.e. on the southern side of the border. The northern exit from the new terminal will naturally lead on to Spanish territory as the northern side of the terminal will be built on the border line itself.
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PanAm747
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:40 am

I'm glad that Spain and the UK are working out some kind of deal.

Side question: Spain still controls a tiny piece of North Africa called Melilla. Is there an airport there? Does Morocco impose the same kind of restrictions on aviation that Spain does with Gibraltar?
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TriStar500
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:16 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 13):
Side question: Spain still controls a tiny piece of North Africa called Melilla. Is there an airport there? Does Morocco impose the same kind of restrictions on aviation that Spain does with Gibraltar?

Yes and no. Let me plug my multi-picture trip report to MLN here: Big grin

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/76969
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stationmanager
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RE: Spain Lifts (most) GIB Airspace Restrictions

Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:35 pm

Theres is a "little" diference between MLN and GIB, MLN is in the North African coast, spanish airlines dont need to fly over Morocco to get into MLN.

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