airfoilsguy
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Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:15 pm

10 SEP 2006 Biman pilot sacked over DC-10 crash
Biman Bangladesh Airlines has sacked a pilot from service as an inquiry found him responsible for the DC-10 aircraft accident last year at Chittagong. An official of Biman said the inquiry did not find any technical fault of the aircraft, and attributed the accident to inefficiency of the pilot. (The Daily Star)

http://aviation-safety.net/news/newsitem.php?id=1691
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
swissy
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:38 pm

Is there a full report available?????

Cheers,
 
ltbewr
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:43 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Thread starter):
and attributed the accident to inefficiency of the pilot.

"Inefficiency" is an interesting term to use. Sounds really Politically Correct. Why don't they just say he made a serious operational error or that he F'ed up.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:44 am

Biman flight 048 departed Dubai for a regular flight to Chittagong and Dhaka, Bangladesh. Weather at Chittagong was poor. When the DC-10 approached the airport (08:50 local, 02:50 UTC), the METAR read: VGEG 010250Z 18006KT 1800 RAIN BKN007 SCT013 FEW026CB OVC080 26/25 Q100 3 TEMPO
S/VIS 2KM OR LESS= (wind 180 degrees at 6 kts, visibility 1800m, rain, 5-7 oktas cloud at 700ft, 3-4 oktas cloud at 1300ft, 0-2 oktas cloud at 2600ft with thunder clouds 8 oktas overcast cloud at 8000ft, temperature 26C dewpoint 25C temporarily visibility 2 km).
The aircraft touched down on runway 23 but ran off the right side of the runway, into the grass. The right hand undercarriage collapsed and the plane sank a meter-deep into the mud, causing the severe damage to the right hand wing and the separation of the nr. 3 engine. The airplane came to rest 7300 ft from the runway 23 threshold. Chittagong has a single runway (05/23) which measures 9646 x 150 feet.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20050701-0&lang=en

More below. Possable alcohol involved

The action taken against the pilot is also a warning to others negligent to their duties, some Biman officials said


http://www.thedailystar.net/2006/09/10/d60910012515.htm

[Edited 2006-09-19 19:48:55]
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:37 am

I might not know a lot about accidents and pilot error, but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers. It seems like a weather related problem and caused by poor weather. Plus, the planes are very old and weathered, so this can also be a cause.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers.

There have been several cases of pilot suicide, the most common being Egypt Air 990. The pilot was so desperate and selfish that he killed all his crew and passangers in his act of suicide over the Atlantic.

TIS
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David L
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers.

 confused  Are you saying all pilots are flawless?
 
richm
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 5):
There have been several cases of pilot suicide, the most common being Egypt Air 990. The pilot was so desperate and selfish that he killed all his crew and passangers in his act of suicide over the Atlantic.

TIS

Or rather, that is one theory. Not everyone buys that story though, but I guess that's for another topic.
 
lehpron
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting David L (Reply 6):
Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers.

Are you saying all pilots are flawless?

I didn't get that from his comment, I would interpret that as meaning most pilots are not careless.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
David L
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 8):
I would interpret that as meaning most pilots are not careless.



Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers.

I took it to mean either that no pilot would ever allow themselves to be under the influence of alcohol while flying (which we know not to be the case) or no pilot would ever make a mistake that leads to the aircraft running into the grass on landing (which we also know not to be the case). It might not be what was meant but it is what was said.
 
deltajet757
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
I might not know a lot about accidents and pilot error, but it seems that any pilot would not jepordise the lives of his passengers. It seems like a weather related problem and caused by poor weather. Plus, the planes are very old and weathered, so this can also be a cause.

 checkmark 

true.

Although wouldn't the pilot have tried to correct the position of the plane on the runway?

-DeltaJet757
FLY DELTA JETS
 
David L
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting DeltaJet757 (Reply 10):
true.

I don't get this. Are you two questioning the accident report?  confused 
 
VEEREF
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting David L (Reply 6):
Are you saying all pilots are flawless?

I think he meant to say that no pilot would INTENTIONALLY put himself or his pax in harm's way.
But there are exceptions to every rule, but extremely rare.
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Amazonphil
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 2):
"Inefficiency" is an interesting term to use. Sounds really Politically Correct. Why don't they just say he made a serious operational error or that he F'ed up.

In certain arenas of communication, there is a professional way to discuss things. This is one of them. A "serious operation error" could have been used but F'ed up is not a professional from of communication.

Regards
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sparkingwave
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 5):
There have been several cases of pilot suicide, the most common being Egypt Air 990. The pilot was so desperate and selfish that he killed all his crew and passangers in his act of suicide over the Atlantic.

This is unproven and there is simply not enough information to fully understand the actions logged into the flight recorders from that crash.

SparkingWave ~~~
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Biman
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:57 am

I am new here ..
You might be interested in reading an article I wrote in the days following the accident: http://www.newagebd.com/2005/jul/06/fb.html

Big version: Width: 450 Height: 299 File size: 16kb
Photograph courtesy of New Age newspaper, Bangladesh
 
boacvc10
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting Biman (Reply 15):
am new here ..
You might be interested in reading an article I wrote in the days following the accident:


Welcome to A.net. May I suggest to the original poster wo initiated the thread to perhaps change the header to "Pilot fired over Biman DC-10 Crash" to make it stand out. Or the poster could choose to use the Biman Bangladesh Airlines code BG somewhere in the title to bring attention to which airline you are talking about.


AFAIK, typically Biman management never had the political will to blame one of its pilots, (F-28, F-27 crashes prior to 2005 have always been blamed on mechanical issues) and most of the decisions have always revolved around (1) Insurance claims (2) plans for salvage, if any (3) nepotism, connections of the pilots.


Do you have any information for A.net if the situation has changed at all internally? Is Biman now being run more professionally ?

Also, in case of Pilot Error, would Biman receive any compensation for the Write-off of the A/C ?

[Edited 2006-09-20 07:51:26]

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David L
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:07 pm

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 12):
I think he meant to say that no pilot would INTENTIONALLY put himself or his pax in harm's way.

OK. I get it. A bit redundant, though, don't you think?  Smile
 
Biman
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 16):



Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 16):
Do you have any information for A.net if the situation has changed at all internally? Is Biman now being run more professionally ?

Read this:

http://www.thedailystar.net/2006/09/14/d609141501133.htm

They have cut three of the loss making domestic routes (Rajshahi, Saidpur and Bogra) and two loss making routes (New York, Frankfurt) as part of new "austerity measures".

The short answer to your question is a categorical "no" ... makes me very sad as a Bangladeshi  Sad
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:54 pm

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 5):
There have been several cases of pilot suicide, the most common being Egypt Air 990. The pilot was so desperate and selfish that he killed all his crew and passangers in his act of suicide over the Atlantic.

There has been no proof for this. Another theory was that is was bombed from the surface by a missile--yet another was the suicide.

Quoting David L (Reply 6):
Are you saying all pilots are flawless?

No, but I think the bottom quote said what I meant.

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 12):
I think he meant to say that no pilot would INTENTIONALLY put himself or his pax in harm's way.
But there are exceptions to every rule, but extremely rare.

 Smile
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
David L
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:15 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 19):
No, but I think the bottom quote said what I meant.

Quoting VEEREF (Reply 12):
I think he meant to say that no pilot would INTENTIONALLY put himself or his pax in harm's way.
But there are exceptions to every rule, but extremely rare.

OK but isn't that just something we all know, like "manufacturers don't deliberately build aircraft with faults"? I also don't understand why you went on to say this:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 4):
It seems like a weather related problem and caused by poor weather. Plus, the planes are very old and weathered, so this can also be a cause.

As far as I know
  • no-one suggested the pilot crashed the plane deliberately
  • neither weather nor aircraft malfunction were considered by the investigators to have contributed to the accident.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 19):
There has been no proof for this. Another theory was that is was bombed from the surface by a missile--yet another was the suicide.

The cockpit voice recorder shows that the Egypt Air pilot was the one who brought down the plane. I read the transcript of that particular crash after 9/11 and it gave me chills. There is no doubt in my mind that the Egypt pilot crashed that plane on purpose.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the EgyptAir flight 990 accident is the airplane's departure from normal cruise flight and subsequent impact with the Atlantic Ocean as a result of the relief first officer's flight control inputs. The reason for the relief first officer's actions was not determined.
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2002/aab0201.htm

[Edited 2006-09-21 18:27:42]
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
David L
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 21):
There is no doubt in my mind that the Egypt pilot crashed that plane on purpose.

Absolutely. It was the operation of the fuel cut-off levers that clinched it for me. I'm pretty sure there's no procedure that calls for that in mid-flight.
 
bennett123
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RE: Pilot Fired Over DC-10 Crash

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:05 pm

Biman

Welcome to A.net.

Given that the plane was going to be scrapped soon anyway, I suppose that they scrapped it after this mishap. Or is it still sitting there.

I understand from the aviation safety net report that it is 7,300 feet from the threshold, but how far, (in a straight line) is it from the closest part of the runway?. Given that the runway is 8,900 feet, it could theoretically be actually ON the runay and be 7,300 feet from the threshold.

David

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