glennstewart
Posts: 952
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 9:11 am

World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:48 pm

Hi All,

The world's busiest routes have just been released (someone on this forum might have beaten me to the punch).

Anyway...
http://www.oag.com/oag/website/com/O...s+the+worlds+busiest+routes+070906

Glad to see Sydney-Melbourne still in number 3 position  Smile
Respected users.... If my replies are useful, then by all means...
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:27 pm

However... not for much longer. Once the AVE reaches Barcelona (the line is to open in 2008) you'll see another Paris-Lyon situation.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
BA
Posts: 10133
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:33 pm

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 1):
Once the AVE reaches Barcelona (the line is to open in 2008) you'll see another Paris-Lyon situation.

Or better yet, a Paris-Brussels situation...
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
NewYorkCityBoi
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:33 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:53 pm

This is number of flights.. not the passenger... Do they have the statistic for the busiest in term of "Passenger"? Because some other routes are mostly flown by wide-body.
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:57 pm

Awesome to see HNL-OGG well represented on the "busiest" lists. It doesn't come as a surprise, however, that they didn't show up on the LC list! Perhaps go!'s arrival into the market will affect that dubious distinction in the future.


777fan
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
BA
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Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:59 pm

Quoting NewYorkCityBoi (Reply 3):
Do they have the statistic for the busiest in term of "Passenger"?

I believe it's Sapporo-Tokyo.

[Edited 2006-09-21 09:00:33]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
VHXLR8
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:56 pm

Quoting NewYorkCityBoi (Reply 3):
Do they have the statistic for the busiest in term of "Passenger"? Because some other routes are mostly flown by wide-body.

I think MEL-SYD would be up there on the passenger number. Number 2 at least; given that most of those flights are 767, and some A330s and 747s.
 
NewYorkCityBoi
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:33 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:58 pm

Quoting BA (Reply 5):
I believe it's Sapporo-Tokyo.

I believe somewhere in Japan has to be on the top....
London and New York has 30 flights a day that has 27 flights widebody.. but they are all configured in 3-4 classes... 747-400pax = 350-380 passengers. While in Japan 747-400D used for Domestic can hold up to almost 550 passengers. (equal to 4 737-300s)
 
mauriceb
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RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:03 pm

I'm Sure LON-AMS belongs to the list, last year they were on top  Smile


We have BMI, KL, HV, BA, EZ, VLM, and many more.

Only VLM already has 10 flights a day to london, which is 140 flight in total

Not to mention KL, BA, BMI, EZ...
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 8):
I'm Sure LON-AMS belongs to the list, last year they were on top

I think OAG's list just values flights between the same two airports. So LON is not on the list.
 
planemaker
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 9):
I think OAG's list just values flights between the same two airports. So LON is not on the list.

Yes, some people get confused and think that it is between 2 metropolitan areas and not just two airports.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
LipeGIG
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RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:05 am

Important to say MAD-BCN become the number 1 just because of RG problems. They returned with only 32 from 64 daily services so probably when RG upgrade their Shuttle Service, CGH-SDU will return to the first position with probably more than 1,000 flights per week.

A side note, there are services CGH-GIG also, about 140 weekly flights (i know the list states only service between two airports)

Quoting NewYorkCityBoi (Reply 7):
I believe somewhere in Japan has to be on the top....
London and New York has 30 flights a day that has 27 flights widebody.. but they are all configured in 3-4 classes... 747-400pax = 350-380 passengers. While in Japan 747-400D used for Domestic can hold up to almost 550 passengers. (equal to 4 737-300s)

Same comment, the list says "weekly flights". For sure if the measure become seats, some Japanese domestic flights could become a top 10. But don't forget that for example, BCN-MAD uses even A321 in some frequencies.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
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RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:31 am

Good Day!

One question, what about the Los Angeles to San Francisco corridor?

Alaska Airlines 3 x per day
American Airlines 7 x per day
Delta Connection 2 x per day**(Yet to commence)
Frontier Airlines 3 x per day
United Airlines 20 x per day

In addition one could also include the San Jose and Oakland to Los Angeles corridor could they not?

Cheers
I Still Call Australia Home
 
EI787
Posts: 1230
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RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:45 am

According to Dublinairport.com, the Dublin - London route is the busiest scheduled international route in Europe, with 4.5 million passengers per year.

We have roughly:

DUB - LCY: 6 x Day (CityJet)

DUB - LGW: 9 x Day (Ryanair, British Airways)

DUB - LHR: 22 X Day (Aer Lingus, British Midland)

DUB - LTN: 4 X Day (Ryanair)

DUB - STN: 11 X Day (Ryanair)

Total of 52 Flights Daily (Approx.)
 
AADC10
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:42 am

One of the problems with that list is that it apparently only has airport pairs, not city pairs, which reduces the count for cities with multiple airports. I am sure that there are more flights and passengers between the Los Angeles area and the San Francisco area, yet LAX-SAN is on the list, which does not really reflect flights or passenger traffic between the cities. LAX-SNA-BUR-ONT-LGB to SFO-OAK-SJC certainly has a much higher total than LAX-SAN despite the fact that WN has a virtual lock on the intra-California market. I am sure that the same is true of JFK-LGA-EWR, ORD-MDW and IAD-DCA-BWI. There are also probably big numbers between Dallas and Houston but it is split between the two major airports in each city.
 
planesarecool
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Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 12:37 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 1):
However... not for much longer. Once the AVE reaches Barcelona (the line is to open in 2008) you'll see another Paris-Lyon situation.

Spanair, Air Europa etc may reduce flights, however I doubt IB will cut much, as all their long haul passengers originating or terminating in Barcelona will have to go through Madrid. I believe they currently have 5 or 6 daily flights in each direction which are dedicated connecting flights (i.e. have the IB6*** flight number).
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:15 am

Currently Vueling, Iberia, Spanair, Air Europa, Air Comet (?), and Air Madrid all fly the "Puente Aero" at the current time. Air Madrid and Air Comet (?) are the only ones that don't fly daily.

Iberia and Spanair are the two airlines with the most flights between MAD and BCN.

Quoting NewYorkCityBoi (Reply 3):
This is number of flights.. not the passenger... Do they have the statistic for the busiest in term of "Passenger"? Because some other routes are mostly flown by wide-body.

It's not rare to see Iberia putting an A340-300 or even a -600 on the Puente Aero and Air Madrid has had the A330-200/300 operating their flights occasionally as positioning flights.

Not sure how much the Ave will affect the route. The train does take longer then flying and the prices are generally cheaper on say Vueling or some Iberia flights then a ticket on the AVE may cost.
No Vueling No Party
 
flyingfool
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:28 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting EI787 (Reply 13):
the Dublin - London route is the busiest scheduled international route in Europe

More exactly, The Dublin - London route was the busiest international route in the world...
Since last monday (18th of September) the route Amsterdam - London route is the busiest int'l route in the world (in terms of nr of flights) with 61 daily departures each way, when VLM Airlines screwed there LCY flights up to 12 daily departures each way during weekday's

Let's see

AMS-LHR, 25 daily departures:
KL 9x
BA 8x
BD 8x

AMS-LGW, 10 daily departures:
BA 6x
U2 4x

AMS-LCY, 18 daily departures:
VG 12x
KL 6x

AMS-LTN, 5 daily departures:
U2 5x

AMS-STN, 3 daily departures:
U2 3x

Aircraft types used on this routes:
Fokker 50, Embraer 145, Airbus A319, A320, A321, A332, Boeing 737-300, 737-400, 737-500, 737-700, 737-800, 737-900, 767-300.

Regards, Flyingfool

[Edited 2006-09-22 00:42:09]
 
planemaker
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RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 16):
Currently Vueling, Iberia, Spanair, Air Europa, Air Comet (?), and Air Madrid all fly the "Puente Aero" at the current time. Air Madrid and Air Comet (?) are the only ones that don't fly daily.

You forgot Gestair (F100s) and Audeli Air (752s). BTW, IB doesn't have any wide bodies serving the route in the current schedule (OAG) and Air Comet is listed as using 742s.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 16):
Not sure how much the Ave will affect the route. The train does take longer then flying and the prices are generally cheaper on say Vueling or some Iberia flights then a ticket on the AVE may cost.

Considering what happened with Paris-Lyon and Paris-Brussels, it will be very interesting to see what happens with MAD-BCN. I would be interested to learn what happened with MAD-SVQ when the AVE was introduced (the flight time is only 10 minutes less than MAD-BCN). Currently there are only 42 flights/wk from MAD to SVQ (all IB).
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
captaink
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
They returned with only 32 from 64 daily services so probably when RG upgrade their Shuttle Service, CGH-SDU will return to the first position with probably more than 1,000 flights per week.

That is a lot of flights. What aircraft is used on that route? Are the flights full? IS there that much demand? Is it is a profitable route?
There is something special about planes....
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 18):
Audeli Air (752s)

I consider them Iberia since the flights are done with Iberia colored 757-200's.

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 18):
IB doesn't have any wide bodies serving the route in the current schedule (OAG)

True, but like I said it's not un-common to see them as an upgrade.

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 18):
and Air Comet is listed as using 742s.

I was pretty sure about that but I wasn't sure if Air Comet still flew between MAD and BCN, BCN is not listed on their website as a destination from MAD.

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 18):
(the flight time is only 10 minutes less than MAD-BCN)

The AVE can do MAD-BCN in under an hour?
No Vueling No Party
 
captaink
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:58 am

Interestingly in terms of number of flights, POS/TAB has at least 30 flights per day. If I am correct, the flights start at 6am, and run about 2 per hour until about 10, but that number increases depending on what is going on in Trindad or Tobago at the time. The flights are operated though with Tobago Express Dash 8-300s, and every now and again, BW's 737. I did the route once on the 737, (very full flight BTW) it was 8 min take off to touch down, the shortest time I have ever been in the air, felt very very strange. Guess how much I paid? TT100 appox. US16.00.
There is something special about planes....
 
planemaker
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 20):
Quoting Planemaker (Reply 18):
(the flight time is only 10 minutes less than MAD-BCN)

The AVE can do MAD-BCN in under an hour?

No, the "flight time" of MAD-SVQ is only 10 minutes less than MAD-BCN... not the AVE! I posted earlier that Madrid-Barcelona on the AVE is expected to take 2.5 hours. That is versus 1:15 average "flight time" for MAD-BCN. Using Madrid-Sevilla as an example (only 42 fligths/wk), it would indicate that MAD-BCN air traffic will be greatly reduced when the AVE is operational.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:06 am

Quoting VHXLR8 (Reply 6):
think MEL-SYD would be up there on the passenger number. Number 2 at least; given that most of those flights are 767, and some A330s and 747s.

MEL-SYD is a very hefty corridor for widebodys and heavy seats. One thing one must take into consideration is that although QF, and UA operate the route with widebodies, the flights are seldom packed. The only time those flights seem to go out full is on Mondays, and Fridays. Is anyone aware if the rumor is true that United Airlines is going to change the SYD-MEL flight from originating in Los Angeles to originating in San Francisco? In addition there has been a lot of talk, good and bad that UAL will re-introduce LAX-AKL continuing to MEL with the 772?

What is the LF for JL/NH HND-ITM? HND-FUK? HND-CTS?

Quoting EI787 (Reply 13):
We have roughly:

DUB - LCY: 6 x Day (CityJet)

DUB - LGW: 9 x Day (Ryanair, British Airways)

DUB - LHR: 22 X Day (Aer Lingus, British Midland)

DUB - LTN: 4 X Day (Ryanair)

DUB - STN: 11 X Day (Ryanair)

Total of 52 Flights Daily (Approx.)

By the above calculations one must then consider the Los Angeles basin to Bay Area market as one unit.

LAX, SNA, LGB, ONT, BUR - SJC, OAK, SFO

B6, AA, AS, UA, DL*, F9, WN

Cheers!
I Still Call Australia Home
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:16 am

Between AA, UA, and DL......ORD-LGA has almost 40 flights alone...
"Up the Irons!"
 
NewYorkCityBoi
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:33 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 16):
It's not rare to see Iberia putting an A340-300 or even a -600 on the Puente Aero and Air Madrid has had the A330-200/300 operating their flights occasionally as positioning flights.

Yeah.. but in Japan, it's not that they use wide body and it has few flight a day. For example Tokyo-Osaka has more about 30 flights a day with all wide body such as 777-300.... and they're configured especially for domestic (very few C-class 2-4-2, all Y class 3-4-3)

Tokyo-Hiroshima, Tokyo-Supporo... etc. are all wide bodies with more than 10 flights a day. (74D=550 Pax)

Here is another freq. route: Atlanta-NewYork
Delta
ATL-LGA:17
ATL-EWR:11
ATL-JFK:9
Airtran
ATL-LGA:9
ATL-EWR:6
Continental
ATL-EWR:15

All together Atlanta-NewYork = 67 flights a day
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
Between AA, UA, and DL......ORD-LGA has almost 40 flights alone...

AA 18x per day
UA 12x per day
DL*5x per day
I Still Call Australia Home
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:01 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 26):
AA 18x per day
UA 12x per day
DL*5x per day

With respect..that is incorrect QFSYD744..


AA:
AA398 ORD 6:05 AM LGA 9:10 AM M80 2h05m
AA394 ORD 6:35 AM LGA 9:40 AM M80 2h05m
AA376 ORD 7:30 AM LGA 10:35AM M83 2h05m
AA390 ORD 8:00 AM LGA 11:05AM M83 2h05m
AA386 ORD 8:50 AM LGA 11:59AM M80 2h09m
AA382 ORD 9:35 AM LGA 12:45PM M83 2h10m
AA380 ORD 10:25AM LGA 1:35 PM M80 2h10m
AA378 ORD 11:10AM LGA 2:20 PM M83 2h10m
AA374 ORD 11:50AM LGA 2:55 PM M80 2h05m
AA370 ORD 12:25PM LGA 3:30 PM M80 2h05m
AA368 ORD 1:35 PM LGA 4:50 PM M80 2h15m
AA366 ORD 2:00 PM LGA 5:15 PM M80 2h15m
AA362 ORD 2:50 PM LGA 6:00 PM M80 2h10m
AA360 ORD 3:30 PM LGA 6:45 PM M80 2h15m
AA358 ORD 4:15 PM LGA 7:35 PM M80 2h20m
AA354 ORD 5:15 PM LGA 8:30 PM M83 2h15m
AA350 ORD 6:25 PM LGA 9:35 PM 757 2h10m
AA346 ORD 7:05 PM LGA 10:15PM M80 2h10m
AA336 ORD 8:35 PM LGA 11:40PM M83 2h05m

=19 dailies

DL*

DL6462~ ORD 0610 LGA 0916 E70 2h06m
DL6463~ ORD 0910 LGA 1216 E70 2h06m
DL6465~ ORD 1210 LGA 1516 E70 2h06m
DL6464~ ORD 1510 LGA 1816 E70 2h06m
DL6466~ ORD 1810 LGA 2116 E70 2h06m


= 5 dailies...


UA"
UA668 ORD 6:00 AM LGA 8:52 AM 319 1h52m
UA670 ORD 7:00 AM LGA 9:57 AM 320 1h57m
UA672 ORD 8:00 AM LGA 11:01AM 320 2h01m
UA674 ORD 9:00 AM LGA 11:54AM 320 1h54m
UA676 ORD 10:00AM LGA 12:54PM 320 1h54m
UA678 ORD 11:00AM LGA 2:18 PM 320 2h18m
UA680 ORD 12 Noon LGA 3:03 PM 320 2h03m
UA682 ORD 1:00 PM LGA 4:05 PM 320 2h05m
UA684 ORD 2:00 PM LGA 5:10 PM 320 2h10m
UA686 ORD 3:00 PM LGA 6:11 PM 320 2h11m
UA688 ORD 4:00 PM LGA 7:13 PM 320 2h13m
UA690 ORD 5:00 PM LGA 8:16 PM 320 2h16m
UA692 ORD 6:00 PM LGA 9:15 PM 733 2h15m
UA694 ORD 7:00 PM LGA 10:10PM 320 2h10m
UA836 ORD 8:30 PM LGA 11:33PM 320 2h03m

=15 dailies..

19
15
5
=
39 = "close to 40"... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
Spark
Posts: 421
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:50 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:16 am

I think a much more interesting report would be the corridor statistics, with number of flights between markets and not just airport pairs.
I'm pretty sure that the San Francisco-Los Angeles would have a the prize (I'm a bit biased, being from the Bay Area).
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:16 am

Quoting GlennStewart (Thread starter):
Glad to see Sydney-Melbourne still in number 3 position

Nice to see it up there

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 23):
and UA operate the route with widebodies, the flights are seldom packed

why do you put UA there when the don't pick pax up from SYD

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 23):
One thing one must take into consideration is that although QF,

These majority of the flgihts which operated by widebodies are international flights
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:22 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 19):
That is a lot of flights. What aircraft is used on that route? Are the flights full? IS there that much demand? Is it is a profitable route?

Rio - Sao Paulo shuttle service is a 228 miles flight.

G3 uses Boeing 737-700 (144 seats, 28 flights per day), RG uses Boeing 737-300 (136 seats, 32 flights per day) and Tam uses Airbus A319 (138 seats, 16 flights per day).
Loads for the shuttle service are around 68% nowadays but the fares are very high:

Varig - Since R$ 169,00 (weekends) to R$ 240,00 (monday to friday)
Tam - Since R$ 169,00 (weekends) to R$ 399,00 (monday to friday)
Gol - Since R$ 199,00
R$ 1 = US$ 0,454 today
It's a very profitable route (probably the best one in Brazil).

Varig is looking for Embraer 190 jets to introduce business class and PTV on the shuttle service. Tam will use Airbus A320 with improvements next year and Gol is just testing their new Boeing 737-800 SFP (Short Field Performance) which will allow Gol to offer more 42 seats in each flight.

Demand is really strong between Rio de Janeiro (6,000,000 inhab.) and Sao Paulo (11,500,000 inhab.). Both are the main business centers, traffic is 70% business and it's a market without low season as Rio is the main touristic center.

Also as GIG does not handle all Rio traffic, the shuttle service is used for people from Rio to connect thru CGH (the biggest domestic airport in Brazil).

The route is used for 250,000 people monthly in average.

Also SDU which is 95% dedicated to the shuttle service is receiving a major improvement, a new boarding terminal (US$ 100 million) with 6 fingers. Sad as we will lost the possibility to walk to the planes!

This is the SDU-CGH service

If you have any further question, let me know.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 29):
These majority of the flgihts which operated by widebodies are international flights

Most if not all of the 737-800, 737-400, 767-300 and A330 are not international bound at either end. Also note that the 747-400 and 747-300 are nearly deleted from the schedule on the SYD-MEL corridor. In fact there are none scheduled at current. Also note that the 737-800 is now being used heavily on the SYD-MEL corridor. The days of the MEL-SYD-LAX, of MEL-SYD-NRT flights are long gone.

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 29):
why do you put UA there when the don't pick pax up from SYD

True that UAL cannot carry pax, they still operate the flight. The pax numbers are included.
I Still Call Australia Home
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
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RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:38 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 31):
True that UAL cannot carry pax, they still operate the flight. The pax numbers are included

Actually, technically, they can. UA is allowed to carry those connecting to/from their SFO flight as well as being allowed to carry O&D Americans as part of a stopover journey.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 31):
The days of the MEL-SYD-LAX

QF's SFO flight oringates from MEL. MEL-SYD-SFO.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 32):
Actually, technically, they can. UA is allowed to carry those connecting to/from their SFO flight as well as being allowed to carry O&D Americans as part of a stopover journey.

Yes thats right but not passengers orginating from SYD
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:06 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 33):
Yes thats right but not passengers orginating from SYD

 checkmark  - Do the SFO-SYD transit pax count?

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 33):
QF's SFO flight oringates from MEL. MEL-SYD-SFO.

Question, doesnt that flight have a equipment change en-route?

Cheers Mate!
I Still Call Australia Home
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:10 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 34):
Question, doesnt that flight have a equipment change en-route?

No it doesn't change. It is the B744 all the way there and back
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2614
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:28 pm

Quoting NewYorkCityBoi (Reply 25):
Here is another freq. route: Atlanta-NewYork
Delta
ATL-LGA:17
ATL-EWR:11
ATL-JFK:9
Airtran
ATL-LGA:9
ATL-EWR:6
Continental
ATL-EWR:15

All together Atlanta-NewYork = 67 flights a day

AA also has 5 daily ATL-LGA flights. Those numbers are a bit off though. From ATL-LGA DL has 16, ATL-EWR 10, and ATL-JFK there are 8. From ATL-EWR CO has 10, not 15. That's 64 flights a day. If you count HPN then DL has 6 daily flights and FL has 4. That's 74 daily ATL-NYC flights, still pretty impressive.

Jeremy
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:51 pm

Find below the flights operated between the Bay Area and Los Angeles region

Oakland

Burbank
Southwest Airlines = 16 x per day

Long Beach
Jet Blue = 4 x per day

Los Angeles
Southwest Airlines = 22 x per day
United Airlines = 6 x per day

Ontario
Southwest Airlines = 12 x per day

Orange County
Alaska Airlines = 5 x per day
Southwest Airlines = 9 x per day

San Francisco

Burbank
United Airlines = 7 x per day

Los Angeles
Alaska Airlines = 3 x per day
American Airlines = 7 x per day
Delta Connection**= 2 x per day
Frontier Airlines = 3 x per day
United Airlines = 20 x per day

Ontario
United Airlines = 4 x per day

Orange County
American Airlines = 5 x per day
United Airlines = 6 x per day

San Jose

Burbank
Southwest Airlines = 8 x per day

Los Angeles
American Airlines = 9 x per day
Southwest Airlines = 13 x per day
United Airlines = 6 x per day

Ontario
Southwest Airlines = 9 x per day

Orange County
American Airlines = 8 x per day
Southwest Airlines = 6 x per day

Total Flights Per Day = 190
Total Flights Per Week =1330
Total Flight Per Annum = 69160
I Still Call Australia Home
 
timz
Posts: 6102
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 37):
Total Flights Per Day = 190

Just counting one direction, right?
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 38):
Just counting one direction, right?

Correct, everything is to be doubled for actual north-south roundtrips.
I Still Call Australia Home
 
stationmanager
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:22 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:21 pm

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 18):
Considering what happened with Paris-Lyon and Paris-Brussels, it will be very interesting to see what happens with MAD-BCN. I would be interested to learn what happened with MAD-SVQ when the AVE was introduced (the flight time is only 10 minutes less than MAD-BCN). Currently there are only 42 flights/wk from MAD to SVQ (all IB).

There are the same flights per week as were in 1991 before the AVE started to do the route.

Air traffic between PAR and LYS or BRU cannot be compared with the MAD-BCN "Puente Aéreo", these two routes you say never had (with or without High speed train) the amount of pax and flights that the MAD-BCN has.

About passengers between MAD and BCN , they are almost 5,000,000 per year, has anyone figures for other mentioned routes?

[Edited 2006-09-24 12:29:28]
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting StationManager (Reply 40):
There are the same flights per week as were in 1991 before the AVE started to do the route.

If that is so (that there has been no increase in weekly flights since 1991), then that would show that almost all growth in travel between Madrid and Sevilla over the past 15 years has been via the AVE.

Quoting StationManager (Reply 40):
Air traffic between PAR and LYS or BRU cannot be compared with the MAD-BCN "Puente Aéreo", these two routes you say never had (with or without High speed train) the amount of pax and flights that the MAD-BCN has.

Of course you cannot in any way compare Paris-Lyon air traffic of 25 years ago (when the TGV started) with Madrid-Barcelona air traffic today.

The point being made is that high speed rail captured those intercity markets (and, if going by what you say regarding Madrid-Sevilla, there has been no increase in flights over the last 15 years in that market) and so it will be interesting to see what happens to the levels of MAD-BCN air traffic when the AVE reaches Barcelona.

Naturally, as the Generalitat gains increasing control of "domestic" aviation, one would expect to see increased P2P traffic out of El Prat whereas now it is connecting through Barajas.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Aisak
Posts: 549
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:56 pm

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:17 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 16):
Currently Vueling, Iberia, Spanair, Air Europa, Air Comet (?), and Air Madrid all fly the "Puente Aero"

They don't fly Puente Aéreo. Puente Aéreo (Pont Aeri in Catalan) is the commercial name for Iberia's Air Shuttle service between MAD and BCN. It's just a brand name.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 16):
It's not rare to see Iberia putting an A340-300 or even a -600 on the Puente Aero

No they don't. No IB widebodies in BCN. Unless a serious disruption in service causes a lot of rebookings i just can't see a 340 in BCN.

Quoting StationManager (Reply 40):
There are the same flights per week as were in 1991 before the AVE started to do the route.



Quoting Planemaker (Reply 41):
If that is so (that there has been no increase in weekly flights since 1991), then that would show that almost all growth in travel between Madrid and Sevilla over the past 15 years has been via the AVE.

Yes, but you have to take into account the type of air traffic between SVQ and MAD before AVE and after AVE to imagine the differences between actual air traffic and future air traffic between MAD and BCN.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 16):
and the prices are generally cheaper on say Vueling or some Iberia flights then a ticket on the AVE may cost.

Yes... SOME prices.

Let's say tourist class return ticket on AVE will cost 150€ and Biz will be 250€... Well, That's surely the maximum price you can charge a passenger flying that route. And bear in mind that AVE departs and arrives at the city-centre (way cheaper than the airport)

If the airline is based on O&D tickets such as Vueling, Easyjet... you have to fill the plane with prices below the AVE max. price. On the other hand we have IB, JK, UX that can fill the plane with O&D passengers paying below that price and connecting passengers (that LCC's don't have).

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 16):
Not sure how much the Ave will affect the route.

Of course the route will be affected. First on prices. Currently IB6xxx legs between MAD and BCN are for FREE when connecting to a long haul flight. That's for sure thanks to the high prices of Air Shuttle service (166€ for tourist and 192€ for Biz for one way, excluding taxes (5,90€), fuel surcharge (10€) and ticket fee (5€ min. depending on travel agent)).

I see that changing A LOT. And sure, Air shuttle frequencies will drop. As there will be less pax paying full fare Y, the free legs will surely end. And MAD-BCN will become a feeder service just as SVQ-MAD is now. No-one is going to pay 190€ for a one way ticket when AVE is cheaper, more convenient to reach the city centre, and you can use phones and wireless Internet on the train.
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:31 pm

If the world's busiest route is not New York-Chicago then it has to be Sapporo-Tokyo.
 
timz
Posts: 6102
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 7:43 am

RE: World's Busiest Routes - Barcelona-Madrid

Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:44 pm

By passenger count Sapporo-Tokyo might well be the world's busiest, but not by flight count.

NY-Chicago is nothing special, by either criterion.

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