keesje
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Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:48 pm

Reacting to further delays in the delivery of the A380, Lufthansa's head said in Beijing Friday that he stood behind the European air plane manufacturer, saying that delays in the business are not unusual.

"We trust Airbus. There is no reason not to have confidence," said Lufthansa's Wolfgang Mayrhuber.

http://www.lhsystems.com/global/image/news/press_nov_05_03_cockpit.jpg

http://rawstory.com/news/2006/Luftha...hina_to_build_Asia_s_09222006.html
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ikramerica
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:53 pm

Up to 2 year delays are not unusual?

Another case of national pride, more likely. At least AF is more practical in that regard...
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columba
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:55 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Reacting to further delays in the delivery of the A380, Lufthansa's head said in Beijing Friday that he stood behind the European air plane manufacturer, saying that delays in the business are not unusual.

"We trust Airbus. There is no reason not to have confidence," said Lufthansa's Wolfgang Mayrhuber.

Sure they have confidence in Airbus but also keep in mind that they just ordered additional A330s for a very good deal as a compensation for the A380 delay.
What do you expect them to say afterwards.
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777ER
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:01 pm

Well LH has got no other choice but to have faith in Airbus because there is no other airliner offering the same amount of seats as the A380. If they want the number of seats offered then they have to wait for as long as it takes for Airbus to finally get it right.
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leelaw
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:04 pm

It's nice to have friends during "times of troubles." I guess in this industry unconditional love means rationalizing away the botched industrial ramp-up on an unprecedented scale of a vendor's marquee program .
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baw716
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:12 pm

It's not national pride. LH is one of the carriers that is "stuck" with the A380. Their country is a major player in Airbus and LH has been progressively moving toward an all Airbus fleet (although they may not admit it outright).

In the case of LH, they will get additional A346s from Airbus to fill in (really cheap I suspect) until the A380 is ready. I'm also reasonably certain that there will be a few A346s on the used aircraft market soon as well. The Germans will figure it out...and it will work...for them.

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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:39 pm

I realize that it's just close to mind-boggling for a lot of people here on a.net that an Airbus customer just might, indeed, still have confidence in the manufacturer...  Yeah sure ... might I just suggest that LH could, just perhaps, have a bit more information available to make such a statement than we here do?

But I do have to agree that, while technically correct, the statement that delays are normal just does seem a bit odd here: a month, maybe two months, perhaps even half a year... but in excess of a year? With, after more than a year already announced, another yet-to-be-announced delay? LH seems to have received some really sweet offers from Airbus in these past days...
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Halibut
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:01 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 4):
It's nice to have friends during "times of troubles." I guess in this industry unconditional love means rationalizing away the botched industrial ramp-up on an unprecedented scale of a vendor's marquee program .

 blush 

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

What about the shareholders ? How do they feel ?

 banghead 

Halibut
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Halibut
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:10 pm

Quoting Halibut (Reply 7):
What about the shareholders ? How do they feel ?

http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/06/09/22/100loc_a1airbus001.cfm

Published: Friday, September 22, 2006

Airbus suffers another setback
Boeing can only benefit from the latest delay for the A380, analysts say.


And as Airbus announced its bad news, Boeing posted new orders worth up to $5.4 billion, including 16 orders from an unidentified buyer for the new 787 Dreamliner, which will be built in Everett. The company also took 31 orders for its 737.

Airbus' inability to meet deadlines on the A380 could spill over and affect its other lines, said Scott Hamilton, an industry analyst with Leeham Co.

The company, however, did not offer a new timetable or cost estimate. The European defense group's shares fell 2.2 percent to 22.30 euros in Paris.


Halibut
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keesje
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:31 pm

Quoting Halibut (Reply 9):
Airbus' inability to meet deadlines on the A380 could spill over and affect its other lines, said Scott Hamilton, an industry analyst with Leeham Co.

The company, however, did not offer a new timetable or cost estimate. The European defense group's shares fell 2.2 percent to 22.30 euros in Paris.

Halibut

I think there are many independent, objective analist in the US. Leeham co. isn't one of them.

The markets should read a.net more I guess, they seem un-impressed..

http://iracs.isg.de/eads/2005/chart_...A.NYS&TYPE=1&CTYPE=0&AVG1=0&AVG2=0

[Edited 2006-09-22 14:52:11]
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EDDB
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus

Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:35 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 8):
Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf and Wolfgang Mayrhuber, twin brothers born of different mothers? Big grin

Rather strange sort of humor.....  thumbsdown 

Quoting Halibut (Reply 7):
What about the shareholders ? How do they feel ?

Not bad at all! All the bad news is prized in and most analysts talk of 26-30 Euros, which is about 20-40% up from todays quote, so I won't give away a single share! Think about it, they estimate 2 billion � less revenue during the next years, but they had to pay BAE roundabout the same amount less than originally estimated... So from (my) shareholder point of view, I'm looking forward to next year or so when everything is back on track!
 
Halibut
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:54 pm

Quoting EDDB (Reply 11):
So from (my) shareholder point of view, I'm looking forward to next year or so when everything is back on track!

I'm no stock broker . But, I would think now is a good time to buy EADS shares . However , it's a totally different story if one bought a bunch of EADS shares a year ago ! Because if one bought $10,000 worth of EADS shares a year ago , it's now worth approx. $7,500 !

Halibut
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus

Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
"We trust Airbus. There is no reason not to have confidence," said Lufthansa's Wolfgang Mayrhuber.

That's just laughable. Airbus has blown through two years of delays six months at a time, and still can't tell him when LH is going to get delivery of its A380s, and even if he gets a date, how can he believe it? His statement is more than just laughable, it's ridiculous. It's purely posturing. If he isn't worried about his company's investments in A380s, then he must be incompetent.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 6):
I realize that it's just close to mind-boggling for a lot of people here on a.net that an Airbus customer just might, indeed, still have confidence in the manufacturer... Yeah sure ... might I just suggest that LH could, just perhaps, have a bit more information available to make such a statement than we here do?

Is that the information from that 100 day plan, which is now a 128 day plan, that Airbus adamantly insists is not yet available?

Quoting EDDB (Reply 11):
Think about it, they estimate 2 billion � less revenue during the next years, but they had to pay BAE roundabout the same amount less than originally estimated... So from (my) shareholder point of view, I'm looking forward to next year or so when everything is back on track!

You will be waiting a lot more than a year. Think about it. The 2 billion figure was from the last slip, we won't know what the new number is for another 28 days. The A380 development was funded largely from income and from launch aid. It should be bringing in the income now that is needed to fund the A350, but it just is not. Think about ElGreco's quote saying each A380 is taking 40 000 additional hours to make it right, and rumours are saying only three will be delivered next year. The A350 is projected to cost 12 billion and launch aid is questionable. Add to that the cash going to the BA payout, and the fact that their hedging of the euro against the dollar appears to be running out. The weak dollar, strong euro situation doesn't appear to be changing any time soon. The Russians are investing big in EADS and will want to have a say in matters, which makes the already complicated situation even worse. So, it seems fairly clear to me at least that there are better investment opportunties out there than EADS stock.
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swissy
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting EDDB (Reply 11):
Not bad at all! All the bad news is prized in and most analysts talk of 26-30 Euros, which is about 20-40% up from todays quote, so I won't give away a single share! Think about it, they estimate 2 billion � less revenue during the next years, but they had to pay BAE roundabout the same amount less than originally estimated... So from (my) shareholder point of view, I'm looking forward to next year or so when everything is back on track!

Same here, no panic, why should I..............

Quoting Halibut (Reply 13):
I'm no stock broker . But, I would think now is a good time to buy EADS shares . However , it's a totally different story if one bought a bunch of EADS shares a year ago ! Because if one bought $10,000 worth of EADS shares a year ago , it's now worth approx. $7,500 !

Correct and that is how it goes......... but no worries if you think long term....

I am sure all you guys have an understanding what "respect" means, LH is long enough in business to understand the issues AB has with the 380 so why is it so hard to understand that LH is committed to the 380..... no buts and ifs.

LH will never be an all AB airline that is for sure, if they go with the 350 I can see them taking some 787 but no T7 and the 747-8 will fit nicely in between
350 & 380.

Cheers,
 
Tom_EDDF
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 12):
That's just laughable. Airbus has blown through two years of delays six months at a time, and still can't tell him when LH is going to get delivery of its A380s, and even if he gets a date, how can he believe it? His statement is more than just laughable, it's ridiculous. It's purely posturing. If he isn't worried about his company's investments in A380s, then he must be incompetent.

Lufthansa is commonly recognized as one of the best managed airlines, I find it hard to assume their management is "incompetent".
 
hb88
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 14):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 12):
"That's just laughable. Airbus has blown through two years of delays six months at a time, and still can't tell him when LH is going to get delivery of its A380s, and even if he gets a date, how can he believe it? His statement is more than just laughable, it's ridiculous. It's purely posturing. If he isn't worried about his company's investments in A380s, then he must be incompetent."

Lufthansa is commonly recognized as one of the best managed airlines, I find it hard to assume their management is "incompetent".

I guess the difference is that Lufthansa don't desparately *want* the A380 to fail. I'm sure they take a hard, cold business view of the situation and for them, what you see is what you get.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:21 am

Tom_EDDF and Hb88, can you think of a single reason to not have confidence in Airbus?
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hb88
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus

Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:46 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 16):
Tom_EDDF and Hb88, can you think of a single reason to not have confidence in Airbus?

Where you intending to include the 'not' in that sentence?  Wink

I think it depends on what you mean by not having confidence. If I was a carrier contemplating an order of A320, A330 or A340 series a/c, I would have no doubts whatsoever of their ability to deliver.

In terms of the 380, the carriers know a great deal more than the public about the progress of the 380. So, watching how the 380 customers react in public is, IMO, a FAR more accurate gauge of the actual significance and effect of the program delays than the endless speculation on a.net and elsewhere.

I also have confidence in Airbus because I work for them, and believe me the view from the inside is slightly different from the view from a.net. In my personal view, 'losing confidence in Airbus' (whatever that means) is slightly misplaced given the number of parallel projects and product lines which are and have been running for quite some time with great success.
 
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus

Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Hb88 (Reply 17):
Where you intending to include the 'not' in that sentence?

But of course, I was paraphrasing Herr Mayrhuber. I am glad you have confidence in Airbus, and I agree it is amazing how they have been running multiple programs in parallel successfully for years. But if I were the LH CEO, even though in public I'd express confidence, in private I think I could think of at least one reason to not have confidence in Airbus at this point in time.

Also, I woudn't have enough confidence in Airbus to order the A350 until I saw that Airbus had straightened out the A380 and had re-engineered its processes so the same thing could not happen on the A350.
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Shenzhen
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus

Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:05 am

From a carrier that is probably in no rush to put this airplane in service, like Air France. Maybe, just maybe... the later the better  Smile

Each airline is different. If you purchased the airplane due to a commercial need... then you are probably more upset.

LH just stated that they are looking at purchasing additional widebodies, which didn't include the A380. Maybe they feel they have already met their commitments and contributed their fair share to the A380 program....

Just stirring the pot a little...

Cheers
 
swissy
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting Hb88 (Reply 17):
I also have confidence in Airbus because I work for them, and believe me the view from the inside is slightly different from the view from a.net

 bigthumbsup 
I do not work for AB but I work within that environment.... have money invested in AB and I have confidence in that company.............

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 19):
Each airline is different

That is exactly right but somehow people have a hard time to understand that..... scratchchin 

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
Also, I woudn't have enough confidence in Airbus to order the A350 until I saw that Airbus had straightened out the A380 and had re-engineered its processes so the same thing could not happen on the A350

Fair enough and that is why some airlines are waiting to see what the 350 will be.

Cheers,
 
atnight
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:20 am

I am glad LH believes in Airbus and that they won't let outside talks and press turn against their decisions with Airbus or aircraft choice... I believe LH has spoken with Airbus and have heard their story and have a whole lot more information than any anti-airbus junkie here on a.net....
I am also confident that Airbus will get back in its feet and will get over this bump with the A380 (and yes, what a huge bump it has been!)...
I know Airbus will keep up the pressure and the competition in the market and will keep fighting to maintain their share... Meanwhile I am looking forward to seeing the B787 program succeed and hopefully it won't have as many delays as this one.... (though I expect issues to come up too)..
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787engineer
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 14):
Lufthansa is commonly recognized as one of the best managed airlines, I find it hard to assume their management is "incompetent".

Agreed, and I don't think anyone has said anything to the contrary in here. Like Columba said, what else would LH say? LH obviously has concerns with the schedule and delays that the A380 is experiencing; they wouldn't have been such a succesful airline if they didn't keep a firm grip on the purse strings. The delays force them to do a lot more "re-work" and positioning/timing in preparation for the A380s delivery. The more delays Airbus comes out with the more work (re: $$$) that LH has to do. But LH will settle their concerns with Airbus privately, and remain confident that Airbus will deliver a safe and efficient A380.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Another case of national pride, more likely.

Mayrhuber isn't even German...

Quoting Revelation (Reply 12):
If he isn't worried about his company's investments in A380s, then he must be incompetent.

His company's success tells a different story.

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 19):
If you purchased the airplane due to a commercial need... then you are probably more upset.

LH is not Saudi Arabian.


PH
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LTU932
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 5):
Their country is a major player in Airbus and LH has been progressively moving toward an all Airbus fleet (although they may not admit it outright).

Germany being a major player in Airbus does not influence LH in any aircraft order. Once again: Lufthansa is a private company and can buy whatever they want.

And I suggest you listen to what has come straight from the horses mouth. LH has a history of not being an operator of one single manufactuer (remember when LH's transatlantic fleet was all Boeing and they acquired the DC-10?) and I'm sure that after what Mayrhuber has said about not becoming all Boeing or all Airbus, LH becoming all B or all A ain't gonna happen.

After all and I repeat, Lufthansa is not Iberia and Boeing's sales team is not the same as the one which dealt with IB. Today's Boeing sales team isn't stupid, they won't let such a major Boeing customer go that easy.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 12):
It's purely posturing. If he isn't worried about his company's investments in A380s, then he must be incompetent.

Or maybe he's playing it cool? LH is not SQ. LH has been very silent about what has happened regarding the delays, unlike SQ, which was almost outraged about the delays. Yet SQ still gave Airbus and the A380 a vote of confidence by acquiring a few more of the superjets plus the A333s for regional routes and as a stopgap measure until the arrival of their A350s, just as LH got a probably sweet deal on a few more A333s to make up for the A380's delays. Mayrhuber is playing it cool and knows the options he's got available.

Quoting Swissy (Reply 13):
LH will never be an all AB airline

 checkmark 

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 14):
Lufthansa is commonly recognized as one of the best managed airlines, I find it hard to assume their management is "incompetent".

 checkmark 

Quoting Revelation (Reply 18):
Also, I woudn't have enough confidence in Airbus to order the A350 until I saw that Airbus had straightened out the A380 and had re-engineered its processes so the same thing could not happen on the A350.

What about SQ? They ordered the A350XWB, despite of all the A380 delays. Besides, the A350 should be much less complex than the A380, because it's not a doubledecker.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:35 am

LH has shown confidence in the plane since the day they ordered it - that's why they did order it. Yes, they expressed renewed interest in the 747-X program when 9/11/TechBoom/SARS crippled international air travel for a time and they were a bit worried about filling the A380, but even then, they made absolutely no hints that the A380 order would be in trouble.

LH is not "stuck" with the plane any more then SQ, EK, QF, et. al. are. They are committed to it. They picked it for the benefits they feel it will provide them for the next 20 years, not the last two.

US airline traffic is rising so is it so inconceivable that international airline traffic is also rising? And that airlines like LH might need additional capacity irregardless of how timely A380s entered their fleets? And LH adding A333s makes more sense then SQ since they already operate the type.

God truly forbid Boeing has any hiccups with the 787 program - or the 748 program, for that matter. For the retribution for all the Airbus and A380 bashing is truly going to be horrible in it's scope and breadth.  scared 
 
leelaw
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
God truly forbid Boeing has any hiccups with the 787 program - or the 748 program, for that matter. For the retribution for all the Airbus and A380 bashing is truly going to be horrible in it's scope and breadth.

Seems to me there's already considerable gratuitous tit-for-tat in every "negative" A380 thread. Should Boeing be afflicted with "hiccups" in its marquee program as well, I'd personally find the inevitable torrents of negativity to be anticlimactic.
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Woosie
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Reacting to further delays in the delivery of the A380, Lufthansa's head said in Beijing Friday that he stood behind the European air plane manufacturer, saying that delays in the business are not unusual.

All I can say it was nice to have a few key Customers saying positive things about you in your dark hours! My MD-11 experience taught me that. AIrbus is full of very good people who've hit a rough patch.
 
georgiaame
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:04 pm

Uhm, what is that yellow thingy hanging off the ceiling? And is it part of the current problem?
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
Lp0815
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:40 pm

I think that such a project as the A380 might incur more delays than any smaller new airliner, given the sheer dmiensions not only of the plane but of the change to aviation in general.

Similar maybe in a way to the change that the 747 brought to aviation when it was revealed.

How long was the 747 delayed back then and can this delay be compared to the delay of the 380 in our today's world?
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 29):
How long was the 747 delayed back then...

It was delayed a few weeks while they waited for engines. The frames themselves were fine and PAE kept pumping them out on schedule, just parking them around the field until the engines arrived.
 
klkla
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 29):
I think that such a project as the A380 might incur more delays than any smaller new airliner, given the sheer dmiensions not only of the plane but of the change to aviation in general.

The A380 does not really make any 'changes to aviation in general'. It's just a big airplane using the technology that has already been in place for many years that has been seriously mis-managed. The 787 IS the next plane that will change aviation in general and it will be interesting to see if they (Boeing) are able to bring it to market without any major problems on the scale of the A380.
 
anax
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:49 pm

kikla , the A380 is not just a new big plane around! It's a new era in aviation and air travel. As of course is also the 787. So some delays (on both sides) are if not expected , at least understood.
 Big grin
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leelaw
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:20 pm

Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 29):
How long was the 747 delayed back then and can this delay be compared to the delay of the 380 in our today's world?

See: Did The B747 Suffer Delays Before Introduction? (by Fly2CHC Sep 15 2006 in Civil Aviation)
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
zvezda
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus

Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:34 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 2):
What do you expect them to say afterwards.

I would expect LH to say that they are disappointed and considering their options.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 7):
What about the shareholders ? How do they feel ?

I expect they are disappointed in Mayrhuber.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 23):
His company's success tells a different story.

That's not so much a reflection on Mayrhuber who only took over LH three years ago, though he's been with the company since 1970.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:44 pm

Quoting Anax (Reply 32):
kikla , the A380 is not just a new big plane around! It's a new era in aviation and air travel. As of course is also the 787. So some delays (on both sides) are if not expected , at least understood.

-the A380 won't be a "new era in aviation"..that title will always and forever given the Queen of the Skies..the 747...

-welcome to A.net.. Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
columba
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:50 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 34):
I would expect LH to say that they are disappointed and considering their options.

How about this:

Quoting Bloomberg:

The airline will stick with an order for 15 Airbus A380s, whose delivery has been delayed, without seeking to buy any more, he said. The current order covers us well'' in absorbing the setback, and Lufthansa won't reduce or cancel its A380 contract, Buchholz said.``We may not be extremely happy about the delay, but the long-term planning won't change,'' he said.

Like I said in the other thread expect an order for either the 747-8I or the 777-300ER as a 747-400 replacement. The decision between the 787 and A350XWB is said to be postponed because LH needs time to study the revised Airbus proposal.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
leelaw
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:57 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 34):
Quoting Columba (Reply 2):
What do you expect them to say afterwards.

I would expect LH to say that they are disappointed and considering their options.

IMO, the only stranger statement in the recent past by an otherwise ostensibly sensible airline executive was the ambivalent ("indifferent") attitude towards the nascent A350 "re-think" expressed by Mr. Parker (CEO of the new US Airways) last spring: “If they come back with a new aircraft, great. If they don’t and we don’t have an order any more, that’s fine. The merger’s done and [Airbus has] been paid back, so everyone’s happy.”
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Simong
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:59 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
God truly forbid Boeing has any hiccups with the 787 program - or the 748 program, for that matter. For the retribution for all the Airbus and A380 bashing is truly going to be horrible in it's scope and breadth.

You just made my *respect* list ..... an American making this statement deserves big *kudos*. You are so right .....

Lets just see a safe and non-rushed entry into the skies .... because that is the most important factor of all. I'd rather see a delay than a rash of incidents to make the corporate deadline !

Good on You
BA all the way !!!
 
Joni
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:21 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 12):
That's just laughable. Airbus has blown through two years of delays six months at a time, and still can't tell him when LH is going to get delivery of its A380s, and even if he gets a date, how can he believe it? His statement is more than just laughable, it's ridiculous. It's purely posturing. If he isn't worried about his company's investments in A380s, then he must be incompetent.

You can safely bet that he does care about the investments, however LH only pays on delivery. And needless to say, LH management has both more information and more competence in running a large airline than we do over here.

Regarding the extent of the delays, we're not 2 years behind:

Quote:
Originally, Lufthansa had been scheduled to take delivery of the first of a total 15 A380 jets in autumn 2007. [quote]

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2006/09/05/afx2993326.html

[quote=Revelation,reply=12]rumours are saying only three will be delivered next year.

Where did you hear these rumours? I think you can also bet that LH management has heard those rumours, and discussed them with Airbus.

Regarding the extent of any further delays, of course it naturally follows that as the plane near completion the room for delays grows less - thus the new delays may be in the range of a few weeks, not six months.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:21 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 34):
That's not so much a reflection on Mayrhuber who only took over LH three years ago, though he's been with the company since 1970.

At the height of LH's crisis in 1992 Mayrhuber was appointed head of the reorganisation team by Juergen Weber.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
baroque
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:02 pm

And there was me thinking that faith-based initiatives were all the go "over there". I suspect that LH will be saying have faith and checking on the ammunition.
 
flyinTLow
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:33 pm

You have to think of it the other way around:

If LH had said "Hey, you, Airbus, you messed up" and started complaining publically, it would have upset the Airbus managment and the public would have thought even worse about the already scratched image of Airbus. But put Mayrhuber in the A380 cockpit, let him say these kind words, and Airbus saves a bunch of money on having to come up with another new PR campaign to push their image up again, money which make one of those shiney new A330s maybe 1 mio. cheaper? I don't know why SQ is behaving like it is. It wont help them, at least not with Airbus right now. Now what it does for them with Boeing is a whole other story.
But why not do all the shouting in a French backoffice, save a bunch of money on a couple of aircraft, and boost the image of LH and Airbus a little... it's a no-brainer win-win situation!

Cheers,
Thilo
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Lp0815
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:08 pm

Quoting Klkla (Reply 31):
The A380 does not really make any 'changes to aviation in general'. It's just a big airplane using the technology that has already been in place for many years that has been seriously mis-managed.

Oh boy oh boy,
if we are talking changes to airport infrastructure only to be able to accomodate the plane, new boarding and de-boarding concepts etc. that IS a big change to aviation in general.

In contrast, the 787 will be a plane that -while featuring new technology and materials- can easily be planted into any existing infrastructure.
Time waits for nobody
 
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:48 pm

It is in LH's own disinterest to publically flog Airbus in general and the A380 in particular for, with their large Airbus and A380 fleets, such a flogging could lower passenger's...faith...in the product and LH's decision to use it.
 
JoFMO
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:11 am

Maybe Mr Mayrhofer is just a kind Austrian "Küss die Hand g'nädige Frau' style of men.

Why publicly blame people and emberess them?
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting Klkla (Reply 31):
Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 29):
I think that such a project as the A380 might incur more delays than any smaller new airliner, given the sheer dmiensions not only of the plane but of the change to aviation in general.



Quoting Klkla (Reply 31):
The A380 does not really make any 'changes to aviation in general'. It's just a big airplane using the technology that has already been in place for many years that has been seriously mis-managed.



Quoting Lp0815 (Reply 43):
Oh boy oh boy,
if we are talking changes to airport infrastructure only to be able to accomodate the plane, new boarding and de-boarding concepts etc. that IS a big change to aviation in general.

What do airport infrastructure changes have to do with A380 delays?
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Leskova
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus

Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 45):
Maybe Mr Mayrhofer is just a kind Austrian "Küss die Hand g'nädige Frau' style of men.

While we're not all that way, I certainly do greatly prefer the calm and cool style that my countryman Mr. Mayrhuber (by the way: Mayrhuber, not Mayrhofer  Wink) is displaying here to the posturing, grandstanding and shouting around (however justified it may be) that some other airline CEOs are displaying.

Personally, I expect that LH will, indeed, profit from this behavior: Airbus knows that LH isn't pleased about the delays, if they didn't, I'd advocate shutting the company down with immediate effect - but they're not idiots.

Nonetheless, and I know this from some negotiations that I've taken part in: the calm negotiator is usually the far more effective one than the one that blows his top.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
elvis777
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:46 am

Howdy,

I believe that LH will purchase the best bird suited for their needs. That said it does come off a bit weird that LH main guy is not asking more questions or looking for some type of payment for the delays al SQ and Quantas, as it ultimetely affects their bottom line. Also, I do accept -not having any dealings with LH myself- that they are a well run airline BUT they are not infallible. I guess that what I am trying to say is that I am amazed at the level of confidence /trust that people have on the leadership of a large company. Maybe I am too cynical but I want to hold the people that run my company accountable and hence I outright dismiss the idea of giving them carte blanche simply b/c they are ina possicion of authority. Perhaps it is a cultural thing. Or perhaps I just misinterpreted the following comments imporperly:

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 14):
Lufthansa is commonly recognized as one of the best managed airlines, I find it hard to assume their management is "incompetent".



Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 23):
His company's success tells a different story.

Again, Their past records not withstanding, why should they not be asking tougher questions of their #1 supplier?


Ok., next question.

Someone answered this before , I think, but I guess I did not understand the answer. Lufthansa Technik (sic?) is a major player/supplier in the eads commerical airplane section. It employs lots of people (in the hambur area no less). They are friendly with lots of german and french politicians (So I hear). How are lufthanse teknik and LH reltaed if at all? Do they have the same parent holding company? If so can that parent influence LH decision or can politicians exert pressure on that parent company ....

Peace

Elvis777
Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
 
Leskova
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RE: Lufthansa On A380 Delays, Confidence In Airbus..

Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 48):
How are lufthanse teknik and LH reltaed if at all? Do they have the same parent holding company?

Lufthansa Technik is LH's maintenance arm - if you want to know more about them, have a look at their website:

http://www.lufthansa-technik.com/

They're based in Hamburg, because that's where they started their operations in 1955 (with hangars built in 1954); they, as far as I know, are 100% owned by Lufthansa.

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 48):
Lufthansa Technik (sic?) is a major player/supplier in the eads commerical airplane section.

They are a maintenance and support organization - they are not an EADS supplier. They are, by the way, also one of Boeing's preferred BBJ completion centers.

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 48):
They are friendly with lots of german and french politicians (So I hear).

On about the same level that Boeing is friendly with US politicians... nothing unusual there.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!