fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:02 am

My gf is in dtw waiting for her flight which is delayed (shes got a connection in ATL to Miami) and they said ATC is down in ATL. Is that true?
 
phollingsworth
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:05 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting FSPilot747 (Thread starter):
My gf is in dtw waiting for her flight which is delayed (shes got a connection in ATL to Miami) and they said ATC is down in ATL. Is that true?

http://fly.faa.gov is not reporting an ATC failure. However, we did have rain move through which dropped the ceiling and vis for a while. This coulped with the runway construction definitely caused delays.
 
callsigncitrus
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:00 pm

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:41 am

ATL has issued a GDP for most airlines. ATC like almost every day. having a runway down doesnt help things.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting FSPilot747 (Thread starter):
ATC is down in ATL.

Just a hunch, but what's probably down is the airport acceptance rate (AAR) which means they have to take fewer aircraft than the normal rate, usually due to lower cloud ceilings and/or visibilities, thunderstorms, or the usual operational variables...

On the bright side, the flight she's connecting to in ATL is probably also delayed getting out of XYZ to ATL, for the same reason... Might not be a problem with her connection....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Air1727
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 10:57 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:59 am

DTW is currently under a GSP due to AAR/volume.
ATL has been under a GDP off and on today due to WX; on top of standard delays due to ATC slowing the arrival and departure gates down because of enroute WX.
In the Alaska bush I'd rather have a two hour bladder and three hours of gas than vice versa.
 
OMA2FAI2SAV
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:53 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:31 am

As of 18:28 EDT, ATL is still under a GDP. As of right now, delays are ranging from 1hr 10 mins. to 5 hrs 43 mins. Not a fun day for ATC there. But as usual, the professionals there are doing their best. Departure delays in ATL are somewhere between 15 and 30 minutes and increasing.
If the best things in life are free, why am I always so broke?
 
zsx81
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2000 11:46 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:39 am

the site is http://www.fly.faa.gov and it says

Due to WEATHER/LOW CEILINGS, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving The William B Hartsfield International Airport, Atlanta, GA (ATL). This is causing some arriving flights to be delayed an average of 1 hour and 10 minutes. To see if you may be affected, select your departure airport and check "Delays by Destination".

So please don't yell at my former DTW co-workers too much!
 
OMA2FAI2SAV
Posts: 215
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:53 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Zsx81 (Reply 6):
So please don't yell at my former DTW co-workers too much!

Ha! Boy I do not miss those days when I was getting yelled at by pax who didnt understand that weather was all over the US, not just where they are leaving. I am glad I got out of that CSR position in DTW. The bags now dont yell at me, they could care less!
If the best things in life are free, why am I always so broke?
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:47 am

Thanks for the info, guys.
 
baw2198
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:20 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:25 am

Hi all, real quick insight to delays in the NAS.

Usually given out by the company (airline), since airlines know how many gates are available at the hub they restrict certain flights that aren't as heavily loaded with pax (example usair express to phl on wednesday sent a PDT flight a 4 hour delay vs. a 737 flight from somewhere else getting the 4 hour hit). The airlines will move these EDCT or wheels up times as needed to get flights and equipment to the hub eventually depending on how the system is.

So when they say its "atc delay's" its pure bunk. They just use us to pass the message on to the flight (they also use acars for the messages as well, so both parties know).
"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
 
TokyoNarita
Posts: 556
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:30 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:45 am

Quote:
Hi all, real quick insight to delays in the NAS.

Usually given out by the company (airline), since airlines know how many gates are available at the hub they restrict certain flights that aren't as heavily loaded with pax (example usair express to phl on wednesday sent a PDT flight a 4 hour delay vs. a 737 flight from somewhere else getting the 4 hour hit). The airlines will move these EDCT or wheels up times as needed to get flights and equipment to the hub eventually depending on how the system is.

So when they say its "atc delay's" its pure bunk. They just use us to pass the message on to the flight (they also use acars for the messages as well, so both parties know).

WHAT? I have never heard of this....the airlines objective is to run everything ON TIME everytime. If not, as close as possible...this is absurd!

TokyoNarita.

[Edited 2006-09-23 02:50:46]
 
baw2198
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:20 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:51 am

Tokyo Narita,

Yes sir, this happens almost weekly going to PHL, its also happens going into EWR and sometimes LGA. The smaller express planes will usually get the bump so the big ones can get in (kindof like a temporary slot time if you will). If something frees up time wise, the airline will amend the takeoff time for that fight, priority is given to overseas flights coming in when delays are issued for obvious reasons.

The airlines tell HQ about the time, and they intern give it to us, and then we give the time to the pilot.
"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
 
TokyoNarita
Posts: 556
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 5:30 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:18 am

The airlines don't have the control of how many flight can land and takeoff based on existing conditions at an airport. The restrictions are initially set by the ATC...and rightfully so. They set the arrival rates and issue restrictions based on known and forecasted conditions at an airport. For you to say "the atc delays is pure bunk" is quite surprising. Although, I do agree that the airlines may request a swap based on operational needs. That may happen on certain circumstances case by case and another flight in the system in the same airline/connection may get the additional bump. A good example would be the crew timing out. This is all due to the restrictions set forth by the ATC based on the conditions at that airport. The airlines won't certainly issue EDCT times on its own because the ramp is congested or the gate is not available so it can sit in ROC another hour. It would require a severe circumstances like during or/and after an ice storm. Then the airline may ask for company wide ground stop via ATC to a particular airport. The airlines are designed to run everything on time. Well, try anyway.

TokyoNarita

[Edited 2006-09-23 03:31:51]
 
baw2198
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:20 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 12):
The airlines don't have the control of how many flight can land and takeoff based on existing conditions at an airpot.

This I agree with, unless the airline is so backed up with its own flights they do it first. I have seen come over the printer at work " ground stop comair flights only into CVG due to volume. update 2100z. zautmu....."

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 12):
For you to say "the atc delays is pure bunk" is quite surprising.

You have to look from our prespective to understand the difference between ATC and xxxdelays.

The following are not "ATC Delays"

Weather
Volume

If its an emergency causing the backup or disabled aircraft on the runway, then yes it's an atc delay. Any delay incurred because of VIP movement can also be classified as ATC delay.
"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:51 am

Quoting BAW2198 (Reply 9):
Usually given out by the company (airline), since airlines know how many gates are available at the hub they restrict certain flights that aren't as heavily loaded with pax (example usair express to phl on wednesday sent a PDT flight a 4 hour delay vs. a 737 flight from somewhere else getting the 4 hour hit). The airlines will move these EDCT or wheels up times as needed to get flights and equipment to the hub eventually depending on how the system is.

So when they say its "atc delay's" its pure bunk. They just use us to pass the message on to the flight (they also use acars for the messages as well, so both parties know).

I'm going to have to agree with TokyoNarita here... Your comments are accurate, in and of themselves, by they lack context. With all due respect, what's "bunk" here is the over-simplification.

ATCSCC runs a strategic planning telecon every 2 hours, with all the affected ARTCCs/TRACONS and nearly all of the individual airline dispatch offices participating. All the variables impacting routes and/or AARs are discussed, along with the need/absence of need for groundstops and/or GDPs, and then ATCSCC puts the plan "on the street" to all users via an ADVSY MSG. Where applicable, ATCSCC publishes individual airline-specific lists of EDCT times to the affected airlines. These are all, indeed, "ATC delays."

That said, there is also, indeed, some "wheeling and dealing" as far as the EDCTs on some flights are concerned. An airline might need to get a certain flight or two going (via special dispensation from ATCSCC) so that a crew doesn't time-out (where they can't be replaced), or so that critical connections (domestic or international) can be made. The airline dispatch office goes through the TCA at ATCSCC, and they handle all the appropriate coordination, and often, moving one flight up is at the expense of another. All of the above is sub-set and a consequence of the larger, overall ATC delay picture, a picture which is not controlled by the airlines. As has been said, if it was up to the airlines to "launch" or take 1:10 awaiting an EDCT, believe me, we'd be launching them.

Now, admittedly, there are times when a groundstop will be issued that only affects one airline's flights, and nobody else's. Those, indeed, are done at the request of the airline to ATCSCC, and are for the purpose of smoothing out the flow of flights into that airline's hub. Those airline-specific groundstops are not an everyday thing--if I had to venture a guess, it'd be that 99% of the groundstops are for the usual reasons of impacted routes, reduced AARs, or other stuff that affects everyone as opposed to a single airline.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
baw2198
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:20 am

RE: What's Happening In ATL Right Now With ATC?

Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:31 pm

OPNLguy and tokyo narita, thanks for clearing that up. All I see of the process is my end of it coming off the printer and then apreqing with TMU for the release. In my 6 years with the agency this has never been explained outside of what we do on a daily basis.

Thanks Again

Aaron


edit: context

[Edited 2006-09-23 06:35:16]
"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green

Who is online