AirTranTUS
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Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:36 am

Another Varig 777 has come to the desert in Arizona. It landed in TUS at 4:48 this afternoon to go through customs. It then left at about 6 for the ten minute hop up to MZJ. How many are left in Brazil now? I might have to go fly up around MZJ to have a look-see.

If I were paying attention to FlightAware, I would have gone to see it. A 777 landing on a 7000 ft. RWY. When was the last time you saw that happen?
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adipasqu
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:47 am

I can't beleve these 777's are going to spend one minute at MZJ. Some airline must want them, right?
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LTU932
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:48 pm

Do you know the registration of the aircraft?
 
coiah756ca
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:02 pm

Maybe I will drive down to MZJ this weekend with my kid to check it out. We will have to get the "Bigma" 50-500mm out.. Big grin

I am actually pretty curious to see it out in the nice AZ desert.
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LipeGIG
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 2):
Do you know the registration of the aircraft?

Ex PP-VRD, now N703BA.

Quoting Adipasqu (Reply 1):
I can't beleve these 777's are going to spend one minute at MZJ. Some airline must want them, right?

Both planes VRC and VRD are in very bad conditions. A lot (and not only some) of PTV broken or missing, a lot of broken seats... the info i have is that the lessor use one VRC engine to allow VRD to fly back to US. Need a note, RG tried to improve comfort, change seats and fix PTVs but the lessor does not accept.
They are non-ER and with a lot of problems, the lessor will face some problems to lease them again although the demand is really high.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
adipasqu
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
They are non-ER and with a lot of problems, the lessor will face some problems to lease them again although the demand is really high.

I forgot that these were non-ER birds. But still, if they can be fixed up, etc., there are enough 772A operators that they might find a second life somewhere (with UA perhaps?).
707 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 752 753 762 763 764 D9S D10 319 320 321 M80 M82 M83 M87 M88 M90 SF3 ERJ CRJ
 
lijnden
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:42 pm

Maybe they will be given a conversion into cargo haulers?
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LipeGIG
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting Adipasqu (Reply 5):
I forgot that these were non-ER birds. But still, if they can be fixed up, etc., there are enough 772A operators that they might find a second life somewhere (with UA perhaps?).

For sure, they are very good for US-Europe flights as well as US-South America and Intra-Asia. Varig use to fly with their 4 non-ER frames to JFK and MIA.

Also, due to it's limited range, the non-ER could not replace an ER bird and nowadays airlines are looking for communality, but nowadays operators like Air India could take them and fix their problems.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 6):
Maybe they will be given a conversion into cargo haulers?

Lijnden i believe the lower range will be an issue not to convert them as they couldn't replace an M11F and also does we know any 772 converted yet ? It's not necessary a certification ?

Felipe
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United_fan
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:16 am

Yep,it came from TUS.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting AirTranTUS (Thread starter):
A 777 landing on a 7000 ft. RWY.

They could land on a 4000 ft runway if they need to...
 
psimpson
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:26 am

Bangladesh Airlines could lease these 2 former BA General Electric powered non ER B777s once they have had maintenance?
 
Asiaplt85
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting Adipasqu (Reply 5):
I forgot that these were non-ER birds. But still, if they can be fixed up, etc., there are enough 772A operators that they might find a second life somewhere (with UA perhaps?).

Some Varig 777s use to be United from Goodyear, I use to work out there I helped clean them out before they sent them to get painted. I knew they would be going back to storage pretty fast since Varig is a well ran airline. I think the last one left in late 2004 from Goodyear to Varig some went to Air India to there was 8 out there (former UA 777s). I doubt they would take them back.

Cheers
 
LAXintl
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:48 am

I wonder when RG's ex 777 from JFK will finally be moved? Its been camping out at AA hangars since last winter!
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MHO
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:17 am

Quoting COIAH756CA (Reply 3):
Maybe I will drive down to MZJ this weekend with my kid to check it out. We will have to get the "Bigma" 50-500mm out.. Big grin

If they let you in, let me know. As far as I know, unless anything changed recently, the only way to get in is to fly in. It's a public use airport, but the road in terminates at a guardhouse. They only let employees of the airport and people with business there into the airpark. I beleive it is also used as an army national guard training facility as well. From the road, you can't even get a good view of the airplanes. Major bummer  Sad
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LipeGIG
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:47 am

This is the bird at time RG received it.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © RGB Imagem Digital




Not to forget, VRC and VRD configuration is too premium, 22F 70C 144Y

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 12):
I wonder when RG's ex 777 from JFK will finally be moved? Its been camping out at AA hangars since last winter!

As it's in better shape (only missing the engine) and as it keeps the same engine manufacturer of more three birds (two non-ER two ER), i believe they could be negotiated with a single airline.

Felipe

[Edited 2006-09-24 03:48:37]
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bongo
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting Adipasqu (Reply 1):
Some airline must want them, right?

Aeromexico?
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RICARIZA
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 15):
Some airline must want them, right?

AV perhaps? What happened to that rumour that AV's owner, Efromovich might take two 777s for testing?
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474218
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:44 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
Need a note, RG tried to improve comfort, change seats and fix PTVs but the lessor does not accept.

Could you please explain what you mean? Why wouldn't the lessor let them repair broken items?

If you mean the lessor would not pay for the repairs? Is it the lessors responsibility to pay for repairs.

The owner of N703BA (VRD) is Boeing Holding Company.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:06 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 17):
Could you please explain what you mean? Why wouldn't the lessor let them repair broken items?

For sure. Varig asked to change configuration (the plane as i told come with 22F, 70C and 144Y), perfect for a LHR-JFK but very bad for a GIG-LIS, GRU-MEX and even GIG/GRU-MIA.
Also, both planes come with a lot of broken PTVs and seats, some of them has been fixed by VEM (their maintenance center at GIG).

Varig tried during some time to change configuration but never obtained approval from Boeing. I don't know if this is due to the low term of the lease agreement (3 years), or just because RG accept Boeing conditions and after receive the birds decided not to keep the configuration.

Also, i don't know if Boeing keep rights for UA to get back the planes. What i know is that they use to receive a LOT of customers complaints on MIA, CCS, MEX and LIS routes.

Felipe
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474218
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:51 pm

Felipe,

Thanks for the explanation.

Carl
 
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LTU932
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:09 pm

Quoting Adipasqu (Reply 5):
I forgot that these were non-ER birds. But still, if they can be fixed up, etc., there are enough 772A operators that they might find a second life somewhere (with UA perhaps?).

UA would take them, but only the PW powered ones. But perhaps CO could also take these GE 772A to free up two -ERs for their Asia flights.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 6):
Maybe they will be given a conversion into cargo haulers?

There is no 777 freighter conversion programme at this time. And as Felipe says, their limited range could make them poor performers on longhaul cargo routes.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 16):
AV perhaps?

Also a likely possibility. From what I was told in another thread, hot and high at BOG shouldn't be a big problem as it would be scheduled on flights which leave BOG during nightime (e.g. BOG-JFK). However, would the current premium configuration suit AV if they do acquire them and not change the configuration?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:20 pm

Last picture of PP-VRD in Brazil, just before departure.

http://www.contatoradar.com.br/images/Bernardo//N703BA_GIG_CR.jpg

Thanks to my friend Coronado and to Contato Radar.

Felipe
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hiflyer
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:48 pm

While it has been posted here that UAL would be happy to get the 4 frames back I would suspect that there is a lot more to that. First off these frames were given up during Chapt 11 due to the lessor not reducing payments to UAL's liking. For the lessor to come back to the table with UAL now after this unsuccessful lease to RG would certainly mean consessions. Further...the question of the current state of the aircraft and being brought up to standards would have to be addressed...as in who pays and who performs the work and what standards and what penalty will the lessor pay if the aircraft fail to perform as promised. Additionally UA is in the middle of an interior change on that fleet...who covers that cost? It's all about the money now at UA.....
 
777jaah
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:47 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 4):
Both planes VRC and VRD are in very bad conditions. A lot (and not only some) of PTV broken or missing, a lot of broken seats

For example, if any airline would want those, how long it would take to leave those birds in a decent presentation (assuming htey'll keep actual configuration).

JAAH
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Lemurs
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:59 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 20):
UA would take them, but only the PW powered ones. But perhaps CO could also take these GE 772A to free up two -ERs for their Asia flights.

Very unlikely. CO has been very agressive in keeping fleet types down as low as possible. They only operate 10 subtypes now and seem to be liking the benefits. If they wanted a subfleet of 777's, it seems like they would have gone for the 772LR on their 2 plane order to be delivered late next year. After all, they want to launch Shanghai with them, plus they could use the extra uplift to big cargo markets they already like to like HKG and DEL where the 772ER is stretched pretty thin. Instead of taking the extra capcity though, they went for commonality and ordered another 2 772ERs...that pretty much rules out any 772A subfleet IMO.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 24):
Very unlikely.

So who's getting those GE 772As? I'm sure BA doesn't want them back, and UA would only take the PW powered ones. Unless they're going to the desert for a while.
 
Lemurs
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 25):
So who's getting those GE 772As? I'm sure BA doesn't want them back, and UA would only take the PW powered ones. Unless they're going to the desert for a while.

First guess would be a new operator for the type who only wants a couple of frames, or perhaps a short term wet lease. Whoever it is, they will almost certainly be international. Old busted 772A's don't have huge market appeal in the US. Maybe in the coming years as converted freighters? Is anyone working on a conversion for the 772? I would assume so, but even then it might only make sense for 772ER's when those start being retired...the 772A is probably too TOW limited for be attractive even as a medium haul freighter.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 23):
For example, if any airline would want those, how long it would take to leave those birds in a decent presentation (assuming htey'll keep actual configuration).

Considering money it's not a problem, I believe 30 to 45 days.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 25):
So who's getting those GE 772As? I'm sure BA doesn't want them back, and UA would only take the PW powered ones. Unless they're going to the desert for a while.

If the lessor do the necessary improvements, TAM could become a possible customer for VRC and VRD. And internal sources from TAM confirmed they will use 777 birds on US routes (seems that they will use non-ER frames!)

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
flyinTLow
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:38 am

Flew into MZJ yesterday, and there were 2 RG 777s sitting on the main ramp, one right in front of the hangar with a lot of work going on, the other a little further south, engines covered, with some work going on as well. Sorry, was P/F so I didn't have a chance to look for any registration...

Cheers,
Thilo
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777jaah
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
Considering money it's not a problem, I believe 30 to 45 days.



Thanks.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
If the lessor do the necessary improvements, TAM could become a possible customer for VRC and VRD. And internal sources from TAM confirmed they will use 777 birds on US routes (seems that they will use non-ER frames!)

remember that also were rumours on AV looking for some T7s for their MIA and JFK routes. They wanted a wet lease and try them for xmas season, AFAIK. Hopefully, this all comes true and I get to fly in one of those for my MIA flight in dec.


JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:46 am

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 28):
Flew into MZJ yesterday, and there were 2 RG 777s sitting on the main ramp, one right in front of the hangar with a lot of work going on, the other a little further south, engines covered, with some work going on as well. Sorry, was P/F so I didn't have a chance to look for any registration...

I flew from GIG on sunday and saw 4 772 (PP-VRI, VRJ, VRB and one more). Seems that you saw VRC and VRD. Good to know they are working on both birds, we can see they flying in the near future!

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 29):
Hopefully, this all comes true and I get to fly in one of those for my MIA flight in dec

Me too. When are you traveling MIA-BOG?
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
SFORunner
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 28):
2 RG 777s sitting on the main ramp, one right in front of the hangar with a lot of work going on, the other a little further south, engines covered, with some work going on as well.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 30):
Good to know they are working on both birds, we can see they flying in the near future!

They could be preparing the birds for long term storage as opposed to getting them "production" ready ....?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 32):
They could be preparing the birds for long term storage as opposed to getting them "production" ready ....?

Why storage two birds like 777's (even non-ER frames), at time the market is really looking for them and accept higher lease rates ?

They have 15 years of activity at least... better (i believe) than scrap or just to be grounded. Agree ?

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
flyinTLow
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:04 pm

Flew into Pinal today and was a little shocked that in fact the 2 B777 from RG are being prepared for storage!

VRC: Already had both of her engines taken off, and all windows and doors as well as the gear wrapped in foil.

VRD: still had her engines, but her windows were already taped and was looking like they were preparing for the gear as well.

They are both standing next to each other on the south-east end of the airport on the runway side.
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
777jaah
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 31):
When are you traveling MIA-BOG

I'm taking the afternoon flight into MIA on the Dec/22. Coming back home on Jan/2. A few days with my wife and my daughter. I'm scheduled the usual 767 with AV, which is a delight for me, hopefully, I will videotape both takeoffs and landings. Maybe you can tell me where I can spend some hours spotting  Smile , while my wife spend some hours spending $$$  Sad.

Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
tundra767
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:42 pm

I heard a rumor UA may try to pick these up. Fingers crossed.
 
flyinTLow
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:15 am

As mentioned above, there are so many airlines wanting to pick up some B777s (AI jumps to my mind right away which seem to want to pick up anything with wings right now) and they are still being put away.....

UA would be nice, but what type of engines do they have? And what are UA, CO, AI, AM, etc. looking for?
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
na
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:22 am

The two ex-BA-772s have GEs and they are among the oldest non-ER 777s, from 1995, so not quite as desirable as the ERs. And they are 3rd hand-aircraft already. I don´t think UA will take these oddballs as there 777s have PWs.
 
PHKLM
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting NA (Reply 38):
The two ex-BA-772s have GEs and they are among the oldest non-ER 777s, from 1995, so not quite as desirable as the ERs. And they are 3rd hand-aircraft already.

I understand the problem is the considerable amount of money that is needed to get these birds into pax service again. What airline is in a desperate need for non-ER 777's of 11 years old that need to be completely refurbished, that need new engines, and aren't cheap at all... Not too many, apparently.
 
na
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:40 am

These two aircraft have already spend about 1 1/2 years in two terms of storage before. Just to prove that they are not a very hot item.
 
ghost77
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 37):
And what are UA, CO, AI, AM, etc. looking for?

AM's needs are B772ER's powered w. GE90-94Bs. The only plane AM is looking after so far is PP-VRB. Felipe, do you have any more news in respect to this issue?

g77 APM
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RICARIZA
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:08 am

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 35):
Maybe you can tell me where I can spend some hours spotting , while my wife spend some hours spending $$$

I have sent you a private message..
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
ltbewr
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:15 am

What about any EC or Asian based airline for these a/c, since it seems BA, CO, UA are all out. What about AA, for their South American ops?
 
777STL
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:18 am

I think the fact that they're -A models is a deal breaker for a lot of airlines. Seems most airlines these days are looking for -ER/-LR models, new and used.
PHX based
 
tundra767
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RE: Another Varig 777 To The Desert

Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:40 pm

The 777's UA would take are the former UA ones Varig operated. Not sure on the reg.'s

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