ricardofg
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:09 am

AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:14 am

Having spoken to a few people over at AC, everyone seems to be saying that AC will start service YYZ-LIS codeshared with star alliance member TP as of this spring. JNB they are talking also but it is unsure if that portion of the route will be operated by TP or AC will carry on much like there Delhi route via Zurich. Does anyone know anything of this??
 
9252fly
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:19 am

JNB service has been rumoured for so long that I've given up on it ever happening. I would have thought AC would have at least started a code-share at LHR with SA and one with both LH and SA at FRA. If there is any truth to the LIS story,then I would say that AC will operate the route a few days a week with TP operating the other days. Currently TP only operates one non-stop a week to JNB with it's other flights routing via MPM(Maputo)and LAD.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:46 am

The rumours have been that Air Canada would route JNB service via Miami, using their new 772LRs.

However, there is no air treaty between South Africa and Canada, so Air Canada can't even fly to Jo'Burg until one is created.
a.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:00 am

This is a very interesting rumor. YYZ-LIS-JNB would be a considerably more direct routing than via MIA (just 350 miles off the great circle route, as compared to 1,000 miles via MIA). Of course there are other considerations--for example, if they had 5th freedom rights, there is probably more traffic between MIA and JNB than between LIS and JNB--but LIS would be one of the least out-of-the-way places to stop without opening a West African station, which has its own complications and might not be worth the hassle. As an added bonus, LIS is also a Star Alliance hub.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
flyyul
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:02 am

Guys,

These rumours are absolutely ridiculous. Let us take a sample of the number of rumours produced on this board, versus the numbers that actually become reality.

Ricardo, did you not put out a rumour last year, that Air Canada was going to for sure do Toronto-Lisbon this summer?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24560
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 3):
This is a very interesting rumor. YYZ-LIS-JNB would be a considerably more direct routing than via MIA (just 350 miles off the great circle route, as compared to 1,000 miles via MIA). Of course there are other considerations--for example, if they had 5th freedom rights, there is probably more traffic between MIA and JNB than between LIS and JNB--but LIS would be one of the least out-of-the-way places to stop without opening a West African station, which has its own complications and might not be worth the hassle. As an added bonus, LIS is also a Star Alliance hub.

MIA-JNB is, like you said, a bigger market, but the most important consideration: South Africans need a US visa to transfer in the United States. This is why I really don't think any YYZ-USA-South Africa routing is going to come into place, unless a market analysis shows that customers on the route will be primarily Americans, Canadians, and South Africans with Visa waivers.
a.
 
bmacleod
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:18 am

Africa would be the last continent AC has yet to enter. (except Antartica of course!!) It would be codesharing SA no doubt.

However AC has never shown much interest in flying to Africa so yes this all rumors.... stirthepot 
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
cayman
Posts: 739
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
MIA-JNB is, like you said, a bigger market, but the most important consideration: South Africans need a US visa to transfer in the United States. This is why I really don't think any YYZ-USA-South Africa routing is going to come into place, unless a market analysis shows that customers on the route will be primarily Americans, Canadians, and South Africans with Visa waivers.

MAH4546, unless I am wrong I believe you have previously stated your belief of strong potential traffic on the South Florida-S Africa market? If I am incorrect I apoligize.

Anyway if that is your view, would it not be a good potential route for AC (YYZ MIA JNB)--having regard to the product AC will be able to offer in the new 772LRs, the fact that YYZ MIA leg stand well enough alone, and given that MIA JNB might generate decent loads? Add to that the potential of transiting STAR pax? They seem to think the model wil work on YYZ LAX SYD, although that is clearly a differen market tha YYZ MIA JNB.

I think a fairly large number of trasniting S Africans to and from Canada would already haev US visa as they most likely have had to transit through US on prior occasions and business travellers are likely to have a visa thus so far as relates to the stand alone YYZ JNB traffic I think, respectfully, you may overstimate the importance of the visa requirement.
 
9252fly
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
However, there is no air treaty between South Africa and Canada, so Air Canada can't even fly to Jo'Burg until one is created.

I suspect this would be a minor formality. 5th freedom rights would be another matter all together.
 
jacobin777
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
The rumours have been that Air Canada would route JNB service via Miami, using their new 772LRs.

AA wouldn't take that too kindly....especially if they want to expand to South Africa region...

That being said, AA's -200ER's would be a much more weight restricted than say AC's -200LR.....it would be interesting to see what AA would do if AC did announce that route...after they get some bilaterals with South Africa...
"Up the Irons!"
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:41 am

Didnt TP serve JNB via Mozambique at one time?
I Still Call Australia Home
 
louA340
Posts: 321
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:28 am

I still think that if AC will ever fly to JNB with a codeshare, it would more definately be with SA or LH through FRA as there are more schedules through that route.
RyEng
 
MAH4546
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 10):
Didnt TP serve JNB via Mozambique at one time?

TAP still flies to Jo'Burg. LIS-JNB-MPM-LIS 1x a week, and LIS-MPM-JNB-MPM-LIS 3x a week.
a.
 
ricardofg
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:18 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 4):
Ricardo, did you not put out a rumour last year, that Air Canada was going to for sure do Toronto-Lisbon this summer?

Yes FLYYUL these rumours I create because I am bored  sarcastic  ...I do not work for Air Canada or TAP, however I have had numerous AC staff tell me this...and this is a message board, not an airline confirmation and press release board...if you find everything so ridiculous, then why waist your own precious time and respond.
 
sw733
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:20 am

Interesting rumor...of all the places to connect through, LIS?? I mean, as mentioned, if it went to Maputo or Luanda, I could understand...but Johannesburg? Very interesting. I for one don't see this happening, but I have been wrong before
 
MCOflyer
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:29 am

I think it would via FRA too as LH, and other star carriers fly through there.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
yul332LX
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 6):
However AC has never shown much interest in flying to Africa

You're right, 'cept for CMN.  Wink
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:11 pm

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 16):
You're right, 'cept for CMN.

And the only reason that AC looked at CMN was because AT has served CMN from YUL for years. AC couldnt make the route work, if they tried.
I Still Call Australia Home
 
dennys
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:59 pm

and what about the A345 ???? to make JNB NON STOP ?

denn
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:36 pm

Quoting Dennys (Reply 18):
and what about the A345 ???? to make JNB NON STOP

The A345 is for YYZ-HKG-YYZ, thats all AC can do with a fleet of two of them. They won't be around all that much longer.

The 772LR could easily do YYZ-JNB nonstop.
 
BA0242
Posts: 54
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:41 pm

All this is indeed very interesting... It would be great to have AC back in the Iberian peninsula.

Remember in 2003 they flew for some months YYZ-MAD-YYZ with 767, apparently without much success (don't exactly know the reason why they decided to stop the service). If they fly to JNB via LIS, they could also profit from serving the Spain-Canada traffic, since it would be very easy to fly from several Spanish cities to LIS with their alliance member TAP and then connect there with AC to YYZ. So there could be much more business than just LIS and JNB in this route. Let's hope they do it!
Favourite visitors at MEX: British Airways B747-400 and Japan Airlines B747-400.
 
yul332LX
Posts: 798
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 17):
And the only reason that AC looked at CMN was because AT has served CMN from YUL for years. AC couldnt make the route work, if they tried.

Just FYI, AT is flying CMN-YUL 10x weekly this summer. A fair share of the traffic goes beyond CMN, but still, there's room for another carrier on this route.
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

AC Jazz YYZ-SLC Bites The Dust

Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:16 pm

Quoting Dennys (Reply 18):
and what about the A345 ???? to make JNB NON STOP ?

The 345's are amongst the few (if not only) owned aircraft and are for sale. Coinciding with the arrival of the T-7's and pending their sale, they will be amongst the first to go.

Quoting BA0242 (Reply 20):
Remember in 2003 they flew for some months YYZ-MAD-YYZ with 767, apparently without much success (don't exactly know the reason why they decided to stop the service)

.

Very simply, was a non-profitable, and low yielding route. This was the 2nd go-a-round, following the 1988 service which operated YYZ-YMX-LIS-MAD.

By the end of the year, the company will probably release a list of probable new long haul routes. As previously discussed, realistically you will see:

*YYZ-LAX-SYD
*Expanded service to China
*Expanded and revised service to India
Above and Beyond
 
orlando666
Posts: 116
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:45 pm

I think this routeing is economically unviable, whatever aircraft/stopover AC could use.
 
accargo
Posts: 576
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:10 pm

It's not going to happen next year with AC metal. Perhaps in the future (2009->) There are too many other routes that have better potential that need the limited acft AC will have in 2007.
 
flyyul
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:58 pm

RicardoFG,

With all due respect, I really do not think that you adding value to this forum by posting preposterous rumours. Considering your track record, I might be best to take these rumours with a grain of salt.
 
accargo
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:19 pm

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting RicardoFG (Thread starter):
Having spoken to a few people over at AC, everyone seems to be saying that AC will start service YYZ-LIS codeshared with star alliance member TP as of this spring.

There are a lot of folks that want this, but no one in any authority has ever said it will happen. Wishful thinking only.

Quote:
JNB they are talking also but it is unsure if that portion of the route will be operated by TP or AC will carry on much like there Delhi route via Zurich.

Not a chance it will be AC metal in 2007. I doubt it will even be TP metal, more wishful thinking.

Quote:
Does anyone know anything of this??



Have your "AC" people contact my "AC" people and we can put these rumours to bed. BTW some of my "AC" people working in YUL in Route Planning.
 Big grin
 
airbazar
Posts: 6882
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:08 am

Well, I hinted at the possibility of this happening just a few weeks ago. YYZ-LIS-JNB would be great for both AC and TP. Geograpically speaking, LIS is arguably the best refueling stop on that route. There is a substantial amount of O&D traffic between Portugal and S.Africa, and Portugal and Canada. LIS is a Star Alliance hub and a code share between TP and AC on this route would allow TP to increase service to JNB and "offer" service to YYZ without the cost of additional aircraft which we know TP is in short supply of. In my opinion this makes a lot of sense.
 
bambicruz
Posts: 289
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 21):
Just FYI, AT is flying CMN-YUL 10x weekly this summer. A fair share of the traffic goes beyond CMN, but still, there's room for another carrier on this route.

I agree there is room for another carrier on that route, that's why i would really like to see AC flying to Casablanca, are they still looking at this route or have they simply given up?

Cheers!
F*** Me Im Famous!
 
imatams
Posts: 312
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:03 am

Supposing AC will start YYZ-LIS-JNB with their own metal, will they have rights to take pax on LIS-JNB alone. So would it be possible to buy an AC ticket AMS-LIS-JNB on TP and AC?

IM
 
accargo
Posts: 576
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting Bambicruz (Reply 28):
I agree there is room for another carrier on that route, that's why i would really like to see AC flying to Casablanca, are they still looking at this route or have they simply given up?

Which route should they drop to start this route? Once again, there are NO SPARE ACFT. Can you guarantee that this route will be more profitable than routes currently being operated.

With the new acft arriving next year there is a possibility of this route, but also a possibility of many other routes. Whichever is forecasted to be the most lucrative will be the ones implemented.
 
sebring
Posts: 1321
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Accargo (Reply 30):
Which route should they drop to start this route? Once again, there are NO SPARE ACFT. Can you guarantee that this route will be more profitable than routes currently being operated.

With the new acft arriving next year there is a possibility of this route, but also a possibility of many other routes. Whichever is forecasted to be the most lucrative will be the ones implemented.

You're certainly right as it pertains to fins, but think of two things. The timed arrival of 777s might not match the A340 removal fin for fin, creating some growth. And since all of the 777s are bigger than all of the A340s from a passenger capacity standpoint, it opens the possibility of consolidating a pair of 767 flights on routes like YVR-KIX, YUL-FRA, etc, thus freeing up a few 763s. A route like YYZ-LIS-JNB could be operated with 763s. I can't say if it would be profitable, or if Canada could negotiate the necessary rights with the SA government. Unless this was a multiple codeshare with TAP and SAA, I doubt it would work.
 
flyyul
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:02 am

Why would Air Canada consolidate YUL-FRA? A lucrative service that entails losing slots at the gold mine Frankfurt. All of this to furnish an airplane for potentially marginal services? The logic does not follow.

Furthermore, the arrival of B777 eventually means the withdrawal of A340's. A net-gain of total long-haul airplanes will take years to accomplish. Lastly, keep in mind the ageing B767-200, and that they also have withdrawal plans.

This rumour is once again preposterous. Let us return to reality.

[Edited 2006-09-24 21:04:53]
 
boeingbus
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RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:10 am

The biggest issue I see is the airport... is LIS up to AC standards for eazy transfers and such... I don't think so... They are better off going to MAD!

Sorry till LIS gets the new airport I don't see any new airlines outside of EU flying there.

Cheers
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
airbazar
Posts: 6882
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 33):
Sorry till LIS gets the new airport I don't see any new airlines outside of EU flying there.

Why not? US is a new carrier from outside of the EU and they are doing extremely well at LIS. In addition, 50% of TP's passengers between LIS and Brazil originate somewhere outside of LIS so transfering at LIS is obviously not a problem. Besides, continuing passengers don't even have to leave the aircraft at LIS, unlike any airport in the US. I understand that LIS is cramped but it's not a dump by any means and it certainly isn't slot restricted. I could think of far worse places to transfer such as just about any US airport where one must clear immigration and customes.
 
Salomon
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:18 am

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 32):
Why would Air Canada consolidate YUL-FRA? A lucrative service that entails losing slots at the gold mine Frankfurt. All of this to furnish an airplane for potentially marginal services? The logic does not follow.

I think it was only an example, that could also apply to LHR. When YEG-LHR and YYT-LHR go daily, there will be 1 slot missing in LHR. Merging 2 767 flights from YYZ and replacing it with a 777-300ER flight could save the problem and free up aircrafts for new routes.
Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
 
sebring
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 32):
Why would Air Canada consolidate YUL-FRA? A lucrative service that entails losing slots at the gold mine Frankfurt. All of this to furnish an airplane for potentially marginal services? The logic does not follow.

You are way too sensitive about your airport. If YUL has double daily service to FRA, it can consolidate with a single flight and turn the slot over to LH. If AC ever needs another FRA slot, it would have a entitlement to claim one from, LH. This is how the world works. As for the profitability of the route, I find it laughable that every single route AC supposedly flies is "lucrative". You'd think the airline was making $2 billion profit a year.
 
boeingbus
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 12:37 am

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 34):
US is a new carrier from outside of the EU and they are doing extremely well at LIS.

Yeah, and US flies single aisle jets...

Look, if you don't want to believe me that LIS has maxed out to its usefulness than fine... continue on believing everything is great at LIS and not change a thing... very typical attitude of many in Portugal.

I personally believe that this airport is slowing Portugal's progress when it comes to opening itself and the economy to the world. Lisbon faces two issues, an inadequate airport infrastructure and the lack of high speed rail to Madrid and to the rest of the EU.

There is a reason why TP is looking at OPO for growth. Its because it can't be done in LIS. I'm not making this up.

Cheers
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:43 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 36):
You are way too sensitive about your airport. If YUL has double daily service to FRA, it can consolidate with a single flight and turn the slot over to LH. If AC ever needs another FRA slot, it would have a entitlement to claim one from, LH. This is how the world works. As for the profitability of the route, I find it laughable that every single route AC supposedly flies is "lucrative". You'd think the airline was making $2 billion profit a year.

This has nothing to do with airports, but rather with the continuous pipe dreams that arise from posters. BTW, were you not the person that once said that AC would fly YYZ-BLR non-stop  Wink

Slot entitlements are based on seasonal historics. So should Lufthansa babysit a slot for Air Canada, they would gather historics. In a short period of time, AC loses all entitlment to the historic slot. Case in point, do you remember when AC877 used to leave FRA at 1300? Today it leaves at 1700, with a B767-300 that sits in FRA from 0835 to 1700.. because AC lost the historic 1300 slot. Of course this produces terrible aircraft utilization when a B767-300 sits in FRA for over 9 hours.

It is absolutely out of the question that Air Canada would relinquish slots at airports such as FRA/LHR/NRT/HKG, so that they can furnish airplane on risky prospective marginal routes like YYZ-LIS-JNB.

Needless to say, because of the length of sector, Air Canada would need to furnish 2 incremental B767-300's for this route.
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:45 pm

I remember back in early 90s when Canada and Germany signed open skies and 5th freedom too and that AC and LH formed an alliance.. During that time Air Canada had the rights to fly to South Africa and from Toronto via Frankfurt. LH wanted AC to do the JNB and CPT since its cheaper for AC to do it than LH..

CANADA AND SOUTH AFRICA SIGN JOINT DECLARATION
OF INTENT TO STRENGTHEN BILATERAL COOPERATION

November 4, 2003
Ottawa, Ontario

Prime Minister Jean Chrétien and South African President Thabo Mbeki today witnessed the signing of a Joint Declaration of Intent between the Government of Canada and the Government of South Africa that will further strengthen bilateral cooperation and expand dialogue on key bilateral and multilateral issues. Canada and South Africa have also announced their intention to begin discussions on a bilateral air transport agreement.
http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/default.asp...ses&Doc=southafrica.20031104_e.htm
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:08 pm

Quoting Salomon (Reply 35):
I think it was only an example, that could also apply to LHR. When YEG-LHR and YYT-LHR go daily, there will be 1 slot missing in LHR. Merging 2 767 flights from YYZ and replacing it with a 777-300ER flight could save the problem and free up aircrafts for new routes.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the YYT flight doesn't require a slot in the typical sense given it's arr/dep time are in the late pm, a relatively 'quiet' time for LHR.
 
airbazar
Posts: 6882
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 37):
Look, if you don't want to believe me that LIS has maxed out to its usefulness than fine... continue on believing everything is great at LIS and not change a thing... very typical attitude of many in Portugal.

Are you kidding me? I'm all for a new airport. If anything I've been criticizing the Portuguese authorities for beeing too short sighted and slow to develop a new airport. I know Portela is limited but telling prospective new customers that they have to wait 20+ years until the new airport is built is not the way to do business. The main limiting factor at LIS right now is parking space for large aircraft during the morning rush hour but there's a 300 million Euro expansion taking place at LIS currently as a stop gap until a new airport is built, which will increase the amount of parking space.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4046
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: AC To Start YYZ-LIS-JNB?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 3):
there is probably more traffic between MIA and JNB than between LIS and JNB

I wouldn't be so sure about that - if they time the flights right for the Azores flights on the Toronto - Lisbon leg and with the Madeira flights on the Johanesburg - Lisbon legs there could be a lot of traffic from Portuguese people alone.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 37):
Lisbon faces two issues, an inadequate airport infrastructure and the lack of high speed rail to Madrid and to the rest of the EU.

The airport infrastructure is a real issue, the high-speed rail to Madrid is not (specially considering all other major European cities, including Barcelona, are too far away for a viable high-speed link). A high-speed train between Lisbon and Madrid would bring only marginal improvements over the status-quo (unlike a Lisbon - Porto link, which would basically kill off most domestic flights).
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!