ba757gla
Posts: 716
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:00 am

Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:51 pm

I know there is STN from NCL but why not LTN is that annoying if there is a flight from LTN that is not served anywhere else ?
 
sevenair
Posts: 1492
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:22 am

I think its because the NCL-STN route has been going for as long as I can remember - perhaps sticking with a well known route, one which was served by OG at the time of the takeover. Luton doesn't seem to have anything that STN doesn't, so I think STN is more popular, particular with the STN Express trains and the massive FR hub as well as more destinations than LTN
 
by738
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 1):
Luton doesn't seem to have anything that STN doesn't

Im sorry but that is incorrect. Just for starters LTN routes with EZY NOT duplicated at STN- Istanbul, Rijeka, Cagliari.....
 
sevenair
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting BY738 (Reply 2):
Im sorry but that is incorrect. Just for starters LTN routes with EZY NOT duplicated at STN- Istanbul, Rijeka, Cagliari.....

I wasn't meaning in terms of routes. But I really don't think those three routes will be that popular with people from NCL. I don't think it would be that wise to select an airport to fly to on the idea that people will connect to three, quite obscure destinations. Bucket-and-spade routes maybe, but definately not Rijeka (which is seemingly on served until 29/10 according ot easyjet,com). Istanbul possible, but there is no way a flight could make it from NCL to LTN, factoring in the 2 hour recommendation between flights in order to make the 7:30am ish departure. Plus Istanbul is served by TK on a daily basis, giving plenty of time to connect to a flight at STN given the late afternoon departure.

[Edited 2006-09-25 18:48:29]
 
by738
Posts: 2422
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 3):
I wasn't meaning in terms of routes

Youve lost me. Noone was suggesting EZY would start routes from NCL to destinations you seem to class as "obscure" ( dont tell the Turkish people that). The point is STN is no bigger hub for EZY than LTN so there could just as easily be a route from NCL to LTN as there is STN, just as there are EZY routes from GLA to LTN STN and now LGW.
Ill leave it that.
 
Yak97
Posts: 110
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:16 am

Debonair operated LTN/NCL but not a great success? (but then neither was Debonair!)
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3208
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:35 am

It's probably not operated due to the close proximity of LTN to Stevenage, where you can hop on a train and be in Newcastle city centre in around 2-3hrs. If anything, I would have thought a NCL-LGW flight would work better, as it's around an extra 2 or so hours on the train from the South Coast.
 
sevenair
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting BY738 (Reply 4):
The point is STN is no bigger hub for EZY than LTN so there could just as easily be a route from NCL to LTN as there is STN

Well if that is the case, then it is easy to see why they fly to STN and not LTN. Primarily good links to the city and the fact that STN is a long served destination from NCL.
 
ba757gla
Posts: 716
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:39 am

EZY on a LGW -NCL is needed ! only BA on that route!
 
by738
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 7):
the fact that STN is a long served destination from NCL.

....the clinching factor that airlines base their routes on....(??)
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:59 am

NCL-STN increases to 5 x Daily this winter.
And yes, an EZY NCL-LGW flight would do well, probably finish off BA infact. Although EZY doesn't seem to be keen on new routes from NCL.
jet2 however  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
sam1987
Posts: 550
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:02 am

If U2 could find the slots I reckon they could open up a few new domestic routes from LGW:

- Newcastle (NCL), to compete with BA.
- Leeds (LBA), which hasn't been served since 2003, but is urgently needed since GNER haven't been allowed to increase services between London and Leeds
- Durham Tees Valley (MME); WW will pull out of the route in October.
- Liverpool (LPL); U2 tried LTN to LPL for a while, but I think LGW to LPL would be more successful as its south of London.
- Inverness (INV), to compete with BA Connect.
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
BMED
Posts: 722
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 11):
London.
- Inverness (INV), to compete with BA Connect

They already fly LGW to INV
Living the jetset life! No better way to be
 
sam1987
Posts: 550
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting BMED (Reply 12):
They already fly LGW to INV

Sorry, my mistake, I meant Aberdeen (ABZ).

What does everyone think about the following new routes from LGW?

ABZ thrice daily
NCL twice daily
LBA thrice daily
MME once daily
LPL thrice daily

Any slots from LGW going spare?!
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3208
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 12:37 am

RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 13):
ABZ thrice daily
NCL twice daily
LBA thrice daily
MME once daily
LPL thrice daily

I could really do with a cheap flight to LBA this December. Even FlyBE are asking for £55, for the most inconvenient flight times and from Southampton. A LGW-LBA flight would be great for me, but I'm not sure it would warrant a thrice daily service, or Aberdeen and Liverpool for that matter.

Gatwick is so slot restricted that if U2 were to get the slots they'd probably be better used on international flights, which are likely to make more money.
 
ba757gla
Posts: 716
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:23 am

is there enough demand on the ABZ if BA already fly that route?
 
sam1987
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:27 pm

RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 14):
A LGW-LBA flight would be great for me, but I'm not sure it would warrant a thrice daily service,

Maybe not thrice daily, but twice daily for sure.

The trains are overcrowded and unreliable, and the journey time for Surrey and Sussex to Yorkshire on public transport can take well over five hours.

BD's route between LHR and LBA is rather overpriced too, so they could get some London bound traffic from them on an LGW route too.

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 14):
Gatwick is so slot restricted that if U2 were to get the slots they'd probably be better used on international flights, which are likely to make more money.

Do you think any regional airline might want to start those routes if they could get the slots? Just think of the connections available at LGW (HKG being a new one).

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 15):
is there enough demand on the ABZ if BA already fly that route?

I think its worth a try because there is no low cost alternative. Just think of the city break, daytrip and weekend away in the Highlands possibilities!
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3208
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 16):
The trains are overcrowded and unreliable, and the journey time for Surrey and Sussex to Yorkshire on public transport can take well over five hours.

BD's route between LHR and LBA is rather overpriced too, so they could get some London bound traffic from them on an LGW route too.

Yep, I'm currently in the process of looking for the best way to get to Bradford. I don't fancy 4 hours in a coach each way, and although i can get there on the train for dirt cheap, my friend would end up paying around £100 to get there. The cheapest option is FlyBE from Southampton, which is hardly convenient. So yeah, I'm sure there is a certain amount of demand from Gatwick to Leeds.

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 16):
Do you think any regional airline might want to start those routes if they could get the slots? Just think of the connections available at LGW (HKG being a new one).

The only airline likely to do it for connections would be BA and I think they operated (and dropped) it a few years ago.

The only airline that really have a chance of starting LBA-LGW is Jet2.com. They already have LGW slots, and could probably convert their Manchester flights to Leeds Bradford flights. I've never been on a full LS LGW-MAN flight, and they're being dropped to 2x daily in October. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before MAN-LGW is pulled.
 
Humberside
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:04 am

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 11):
- Leeds (LBA), which hasn't been served since 2003, but is urgently needed since GNER haven't been allowed to increase services between London and Leeds

Network Rail have found extra paths so GNER can run their extra services, as well as Grand Central running their new Sunderland service
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
sam1987
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:27 pm

RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:51 pm

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 17):
The only airline that really have a chance of starting LBA-LGW is Jet2.com. They already have LGW slots, and could probably convert their Manchester flights to Leeds Bradford flights. I've never been on a full LS LGW-MAN flight, and they're being dropped to 2x daily in October.

I sure hope they do do that. That leased 146 is perfect size for a LGW to LBA flight. They should leave London to Manchester to BA and BD.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):
Network Rail have found extra paths so GNER can run their extra services

Really? Where would they go?

And how long until GNER are allowed by the DfT to put on a half hourly service between London and Leeds?

Even if they do, it doesn't solve the problem of long journey times between Surrey and Sussex and Yorkshire.

I'm still campaigning for a link between LBA and LGW!
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
vsflyer747400
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:34 pm

RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 13):
MME once daily

A current BMI baby route - but even thats going at the end of october I believe.
Being on: (in no order) VS BA AA EK CX MH DL EI BD KL HV NW RC LH AF DA TG QF US FR LX AC SK AZ PG SQ UA PA
 
Humberside
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RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 19):
Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):
Network Rail have found extra paths so GNER can run their extra services

Really? Where would they go?

There were some unused paths on the East Coast Main Line such as those for the Eurostar link services that haven't run for about 10 years

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 19):
And how long until GNER are allowed by the DfT to put on a half hourly service between London and Leeds?

The DfT want the half hourly service - it was in GNER's franchise agreement. Tthey were not happy about Grand Central getting the paths
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
ba757gla
Posts: 716
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:00 am

RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:04 am

the eurostar services didnt run!! isent there problems with gner at the moment!!
 
gkirk
Posts: 23346
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:30 am

Christ, if you want to talk about trains, got to a trainspotters website or something  Yeah sure
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
sam1987
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:27 pm

RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting VSFLYER747400 (Reply 20):
A current BMI baby route - but even thats going at the end of october I believe.

Indeed it is, hence my suggestion that U2 take it on. The route is going to be dropped because WW are pulling out of MME completely, not because of bad loads on that route.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 21):
The DfT want the half hourly service

I think the Dft wantED the half hourly service!
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
Humberside
Posts: 3223
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: Why No NCL- LTN With EZY?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 22):
the eurostar services didnt run!! isent there problems with gner at the moment!!

For a year British Rail ran trains from Edinburgh into Waterloo to connect into Eurostar. They were hardly used and axed after a year or so

Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 24):
Quoting Humberside (Reply 21):
The DfT want the half hourly service

I think the Dft wantED the half hourly service!

I think the DfT will want the half hourly service still. The more revenue GNER can get, the less likely the DfT will be running the East Coast Main Line services!!!

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 22):
isent there problems with gner at the moment!!

Big financial problems. Theres even a chance that the franchise will be handed back to the DfT

More likely is that GNER have a big cost cutting drive. Restaurant services could be at risk for example. And bringing this back to aviation, a lower quality GNER service could be an oppurtunity for airlines to attract business passengers from the trains
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