scaledesigns
Posts: 199
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UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:37 am

I see on Reuters they are reporting today UAL might try to merge with another airline.I know this has been talked about before.The United
Continental seems the most talked about.Do you think UA would try a AA
style TWA or USair/America West Merger with a Chapter 11 airline like NW or DL.I know the AA/TW deal turned out to be the "great mistake",but no one
knew what was coming on Sep 11.If not for that AA would have looked brilliant!
F1 Tommy
 
m777d
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:46 am

Can you put a link in for the story. I have looked on Reuters and cannot find anything when I search for "UAL Merger Talks"
 
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fxramper
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:49 am

Here is a good link.  box 
Yet Another United Merger Thread (by Nuggetsyl Sep 25 2006 in Civil Aviation)
 
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ERJ170
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:50 am

Wouldn't United/Continental be too big? If not, what in the world would Continental (the surviving entity) do with those Airbii? How long does one think they will stay in the fleet?
Aiming High and going far..
 
Bicoastal
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:51 am

Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
atnight
Posts: 537
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 3):
Wouldn't United/Continental be too big? If not, what in the world would Continental (the surviving entity) do with those Airbii? How long does one think they will stay in the fleet?

First of all, even though I would hate a merger between the two, if it ends happening, Continental may be the one in management, but the United brand would be stay (just because United is bigger and they have access to the most important markets worldwide which CO lacks or is limited).... So those of you who hope or wish that the CO brand will be kept or a hybrid brand version of CO-UA to come up, are simply dreaming.... because United is the brand that makes most sense to stay in the market...
Now, what would the new CO-UA do with their airbuses? I think they could slowly put all their Airbuses under the TED brand while all the B737NG that CO has would go for domestic mainline.... Plus with the combined fleet of 757, the routes currently with B737 service would be allocated to them (757s).... of course, I think that with a merger, most of CO's orders for additional B737s (including the 900ERs) will be converted to more efficient wide-bodies, (787s and 777s) which both companies lack... And I say this because a combined CO-UA would have way too many single-aisle aircraft (UA alone has almost 100 757s) and thus to keep the order of 60+ 737NG that CO has would not make sense in the short to medium-term future...
Anyways... I sure hope that doesn't happen!!!
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philhyde
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:26 am

Here is an article in the LA Business Journal

Report: United looking at merger options

UAL Corp., the parent company of United Airlines, has brought in Goldman Sachs & Co. to explore options for the company, including possible mergers with other airlines, according to a report in Crain's Chicago Business.

http://losangeles.bizjournals.com/lo...les/stories/2006/09/25/daily1.html
Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
 
777STL
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting Atnight (Reply 5):
So those of you who hope or wish that the CO brand will be kept or a hybrid brand version of CO-UA to come up, are simply dreaming.... because United is the brand that makes most sense to stay in the market...

Owernship by one of the other doesn't necessitate that one brand survives while the other doesn't. Look at KLM and AF.
PHX based
 
scaledesigns
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:43 am

United looking at merger options

Date: Mon 25th Sep 2006
NORTH AMERICA - UAL Corp., the parent company of United Airlines, has brought in Goldman Sachs & Co. to explore options for the company, including possible mergers with other airlines, according to a report in Crain's Chicago Business.

Goldman Sachs will help United assess the value of its holdings and explore possible partners for a merger. The report says that Houston's Continental (NYSE: CAL) and Atlanta's Delta (Pink Sheets: DALRQ) are the most likely possibilities for a merger.

United exited Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on February 1 after an extensive reorganization that saw the airline cut annual costs by $7 billion.

Chicago-based United (NASDAQ: UAUA) is the nation's second-largest airline and the largest airline serving Los Angeles International Airport.


Here is the latest from LA business and Crains Chicago.
F1 Tommy
 
bmacleod
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:43 am

CO would be better off going with DL when looking at their hub systems. With UA's airbuses, they would lean more toward NW although no carrier in their right mind wants to mess with that freefaller!! no 
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
scaledesigns
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:50 am

Sounds like it will happen soon..I think United will be the name kept
in any deal.
F1 Tommy
 
slider
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:51 am

CO should stay solo....we don't need the self-mutilation problems of a merger.
 
atnight
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 7):
Owernship by one of the other doesn't necessitate that one brand survives while the other doesn't. Look at KLM and AF.

You do know why they had to keep the brands separate no? Or did you miss that part of information? (Just so you know, there are some plans of making the 2 into a new or merged brand, or dropping KLM altogether)...
at any rate, comparing CO-UA to AF-KL is comparing apples to oranges... AF is from FRANCE, and KLM is from HOLLAND...two separate countries (part of the reason why they couldn't drop the names right away).... while UA is from Chicago and CO from Texas... (aren't they both in the USA?, I thought so).... so keeping two brands in the same country plus a sub-brand (TED) would only keep operational prices high and would be a BIG issue with management... that's why you see NO merger in the history of the US keeping two different names alive.... in the most recent mergers, AA got rid of TWA while HP left their name in favor of US.... So although you may be hopeful, all logic goes against you...
B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
 
scaledesigns
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:57 am

I agree slider.I think Delta would be a better merger for UAL.The only problem
would be major hubs at the worst ATC delayed airports in the USA,ORD and ATL.
F1 Tommy
 
CO767FA
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Atnight (Reply 5):
(just because United is bigger and they have access to the most important markets worldwide which CO lacks or is limited)....

Since you are so full of opinions; Which "access to the most important markets" does CO lack or is limited (besides LHR)?

Quoting Atnight (Reply 12):
So although you may be hopeful, all logic goes against you...

Logic doesn't always prevail; so I guess we will have to wait and see how the whole thing unfolds.
 
777STL
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Atnight (Reply 12):
so keeping two brands in the same country plus a sub-brand (TED) would only keep operational prices high and would be a BIG issue with management... that's why you see NO merger in the history of the US keeping two different names alive.... in the most recent mergers, AA got rid of TWA while HP left their name in favor of US.... So although you may be hopeful, all logic goes against you...

I disagree, when one brand has a great deal of value, it makes sense to keep it. HP and US being a special case in that HP didn't have much brand value outside of the western US and certainly not internationally.

First off, if you want to attempt to sound like you know what you're talking about, you've got to get the terminology right. Technically speaking, an acquisition is one company buying out the other, e.g. AA buying out TWA. A merger on the other hand is an actual honest to god merger where both company's shareholders surrender their shares and new stock is issued in its place for the new, merged company.

Both UA and CO are relatively viable companies with strong brands, I highly doubt one will acquire the other in this instance. Hence, why I think they will merge, a "merger of equals" to use the correct terminology. These types of mergers happen every day and the brands CAN and DO stay in tact. Exxon and Mobil are a perfect example of this.
PHX based
 
scaledesigns
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:18 am

We all know another major airline merger is in the cards.The only wish
I have is that CEOs would not profit from it.They should only be done to
help the airline become more competitive,not line rich mens pockets.
Remember the good old days when United had cargo planes?
Big version: Width: 1500 Height: 1000 File size: 1065kb
United DC8-54F at the old UAL cargo ramp,ORD in July 1984

I know im cheating!
F1 Tommy
 
atnight
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 14):
Since you are so full of opinions; Which "access to the most important markets" does CO lack or is limited (besides LHR)?

I'm not full of opinions sir, just have more facts to prove my point of view.... besides LHR, they have major access to China (direct and via Tokyo), all Asia, SYD and the South Pacific... (oh, and to remind you that UA is the only US airline to have full access to the South Pacific)... and again, the routes to Asia which CO doesn't have will never be available to CO (even Bethune admits that CO will never get access to Asia like UA has).... Now, back in Europe, they could get access to cities where CO serves, but in that regard they have left it to their partners.... And even to South America UA could fly if they wanted to, but that's just something they don't care for (which that's why I don't like UA's management at all).... so really, UA has access to key markets that CO doesn't nor will they ever get....

Quoting 777STL (Reply 15):
First off, if you want to attempt to sound like you know what you're talking about, you've got to get the terminology right. Technically speaking, an acquisition is one company buying out the other, e.g. AA buying out TWA. A merger on the other hand is an actual honest to god merger where both company's shareholders surrender their shares and new stock is issued in its place for the new, merged company.

Thanks for your kind words, however, I was referring to the history of mergers within the US airline industry.... and even though you point out that many "mergers" in the past were when one airline was "buying-out" a competitor, it still doesn't make any sense to keep two separate airlines running.... think of it more practically.... will you keep both to compete against each other? or will you keep two to compliment each other? if the later is the case, how will you EFFECTIVELY do that? what markets will be allocated to one and which to other without complicating too much to the traveller? how will you run itineraries so that both separate airlines complement? in such a large domestic market like the US, keeping both airlines alive would only be chaos... Imagine how many people would be confused as to where to go to check in at the airport if there's different counters for each airline? Wouldn't it make more sense to just have ONE counter? and if you have just ONE counter, why not have ONE brand? Why bother making lines longer by asking people "which airline, CO or UA?" Again, there is no logic in keeping two airline brands under the same management within the US.... The only way it could work, is putting the brand Continental to do all their domestic and United all international (or vise-versa)... but having both run domestically and internationally, keeping both brands alive in all their strength, is just absurd.... you could ask this to any specialist in airline mergers...

Quoting 777STL (Reply 15):
Both UA and CO are relatively viable companies with strong brands, I highly doubt one will acquire the other in this instance. Hence, why I think they will merge, a "merger of equals" to use the correct terminology. These types of mergers happen every day and the brands CAN and DO stay in tact. Exxon and Mobil are a perfect example of this.

And since YOU know so much more, do you think you can compare an oil company that has many products (Brands) to an airline which has only ONE product? Also, the Exxon-Mobil merger produced the name "EXXONMOBIL" which is the new name.... the "Exxon", "Mobil" names are part of their retail brands which "Esso", "Speedpass", "Mobil1", "Mobil Delvac", etc, are part of.... so you again are also comparing apples to oranges when you compare an UA-CO merger with Exxonmobil....
B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
 
incitatus
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting Atnight (Reply 5):
but the United brand would be stay

Maybe they'll come up with a new name, like Incontinented. Big grin
Stop pop up ads
 
philhyde
Posts: 574
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 18):
Maybe they'll come up with a new name, like Incontinented

In the case of United and Continental, wouldn't Uncontinented be more appropriate?
Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
 
atnight
Posts: 537
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:41 am

Also, just so that 777STL and others who may think like him may see, in a merger between CO and UA (or UA and DL), one company will likely aquire the other instead of becoming two (something that I have said makes no sense).... so in a CO-UA merger one name will remain and the other be dropped or at best for those hopeful, a new name could be place (which I believe will not happen)..... here's a quote in the news article which mentions that Ray Neidl, an analyst in the subject commented the following:

"Neidl said that if a merger does take place, United will likely be the buyer."

Full article

[Edited 2006-09-25 20:43:34]
B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
 
scaledesigns
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:49 am

atnight,
I agree with that article and you.
One thing that no one mentioned is that United would become the largest
airline again,passing AA!!

Maybe UAL will need that office space in downtown Chicago.
F1 Tommy
 
klkla
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 9):
CO would be better off going with DL when looking at their hub systems. With UA's airbuses, they would lean more toward NW although no carrier in their right mind wants to mess with that freefaller!!

I would have to disagree with you on that one. A Continental / Delta merger makes very little sense because they both have such similar route networks already and would have little to gain.

By comparison either of those two companies would be a great fit with United because they are both strong in Europe where United isn't very strong, and United is very strong in the fast growing Asian market where Continental & Delta are not strong.

I wouldn't place too much importance on fleet comonality. Securring growth in new markets is a much more important factor in the short term. As the merged company buys newer more full efficient aircraft they can deal with the comonality issues.
 
surfdog75
Posts: 239
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Atnight (Reply 20):
"Neidl said that if a merger does take place, United will likely be the buyer."

Mike Boyd sees it a little differently.

http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm
 
CO767FA
Posts: 388
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting Atnight (Reply 20):
here's a quote in the news article which mentions that Ray Neidl, an analyst in the subject commented the following:

"Neidl said that if a merger does take place, United will likely be the buyer."

Oh...why didn't you add the Ray Neidl piece in your first post? If he says that United would be the buyer, well than that is the end of the discussion.  Yeah sure Forget the old adage, "Opinions are like a$$holes; everyone has one".  butthead 

Seriously, if United has such a rock solid plan in place, why are they looking to grow outside of their own organization. While you believe that Asia is the end all market (we serve 24 destinations in Asia and the South Pacific); it is apparent that UA doesn't believe it can survive on its own. Thank goodness CO thinks otherwise; we continue to grow 5%-7% annually, have aircraft on order and being delivered and we continue to hire for growth (not just because people are leaving).

I could possibly see only the name "United" surviving; the rest: Logo, Type face, frequent flyer program, Presidents Club, colors, uniforms, cutlery and everything else would say "Continental" and the rest of the world would know it was the real survivor.  cloudnine 
 
DC8FanJet
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:48 am

Mike Boyd only agrees with something that Mike Boyd is promoting.

CO wouldn't be such a great mix for UA, they've been to Ch. 11 twice, almost 3 times. UA only once. DL corporate culture would be better "mix".

Still think Tilton wants to do something with Lufthansa involved.
 
fewsolarge
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:53 am

UA/CO: Yukon

Then Ted could be renamed Cornelius.
 
Lemurs
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:13 am

RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting DC8FanJet (Reply 25):
CO wouldn't be such a great mix for UA, they've been to Ch. 11 twice, almost 3 times. UA only once. DL corporate culture would be better "mix".

What in the world does that have to do with anything? The last time CO was bankrupt was 15 years ago under an entirely different management group than the one that has led CO to it's current position in the marketplace. It's like you're talking about how IBM would make a bad merger with Dell because IBM used to dominate the PC market and Dell is just a mail order company...sure it was true 15 years ago, but the marketplace changes.

It's like saying you can't be trusted to fly in an airplane for 5 hours because you used to pee your pants regularly...when you were 1. How is that relevent to right now?

As for the corporate culture aspect, you're right...DL and UA both excel in mediocrity when it comes to customer and employee satisfaction. No arguments.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
CO767FA
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting DC8FanJet (Reply 25):
CO wouldn't be such a great mix for UA, they've been to Ch. 11 twice, almost 3 times. UA only once. DL corporate culture would be better "mix".

What does that have to do with anything we are currently talking about? Only carriers that have matching "trips" to BK should hook up? Or corporate cultures with screwed up management should be allowed to hook up?

Please explain.
 
nuggetsyl
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 11:46 pm

RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting DC8FanJet (Reply 25):
Mike Boyd only agrees with something that Mike Boyd is promoting.

CO wouldn't be such a great mix for UA, they've been to Ch. 11 twice, almost 3 times. UA only once. DL corporate culture would be better "mix".

Still think Tilton wants to do something with Lufthansa involved.

Are you kidding me. I hope that does happen because if i was forced to merge with anyone i would rather team up with Alaska.
 
petertenthije
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 18):
Maybe they'll come up with a new name, like Incontinented

Con-U-Air?
Attamottamotta!
 
CO767FA
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 29):
Are you kidding me. I hope that does happen because if i was forced to merge with anyone i would rather team up with Alaska.

And what does Alaska offer that CO doesn't have? More west coast presence? Not enough of a concern for CO to care.
 
scaledesigns
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:12 am

RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:18 am

United fly "continental"

into the ground again!

1st time Lorenzo
2nd time Tilton
F1 Tommy
 
nuggetsyl
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 11:46 pm

RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 31):
And what does Alaska offer that CO doesn't have? More west coast presence? Not enough of a concern for CO to care.

We have no west coast presence. Almost 0. And i said if i was forced to merge with another airline alaska would be the one because of the work group and network.
 
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mariner
Posts: 18253
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 24):
why are they looking to grow outside of their own organization.

Because it is about company - shareholder - value. Forget airlines, why does any company grow, especially through merger and/or acquisition activity - why does any company buy or merge with another?

Forget airlines - but remember that Mr. Tilton is not an airline man - he is a corporate structuralist. That's why he was such a good choice for the United Chapter 11 process.

http://www.thestreet.com/_iwon/newsa...sis/transportation/10311011_3.html

"During a 32-year-career at Chevron Corp., Tilton helped oversee the $35 billion merger between Texaco and Chevron in 2001."

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 24):
it is apparent that UA doesn't believe it can survive on its own.

It isn't apparent to me. What is very clear to me is that Mr. Tilton is a passionate believer in consolidation, and that he sees the now illogical US airline industry as ripe for that consolidation.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
CO767FA
Posts: 388
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 33):
We have no west coast presence. Almost 0. And i said if i was forced to merge with another airline alaska would be the one because of the work group and network.

Hm-mm....Alaska doesn't add to bottom-line; they don't have any "jewels" that we wouldn't be able to get on our own; given time and the bad luck of some airlines in financial straits.

I don't favor merger or acquisition of any carrier. Internal growth is the way to go; but the likelihood of that happening is very low in this market.
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:40 am

Quoting Atnight (Reply 5):
if it ends happening, Continental may be the one in management, but the United brand would be stay (just because United is bigger and they have access to the most important markets worldwide which CO lacks or is limited)

And you base this statement on what?

Continental is huge in Europe and Mexico/Central/South America. United's brand, in my opinion, carries no better reputation the the Continental brand. In fact, Continental has for year been rated a better airline than United by JDPower, OAG and others.

Nothing would please me more than UA's former CEO's prediction that United would "perish" due to its inability to evolve in todays marketplace. Their management deserves to be unemployed for decades of unprofessional behavior toward competitor Continental.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
nuggetsyl
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 11:46 pm

RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 35):
I don't favor merger or acquisition of any carrier. Internal growth is the way to go

I agree with you on this 100%.
 
panamair
Posts: 3765
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 35):
I don't favor merger or acquisition of any carrier. Internal growth is the way to go.

Agree with you there but the problem is, if Tilton finds a willing dance partner of a decent size, it would pretty much force the others to do something similar in an effort to keep up. Tilton is the 'wheeler-dealer' type of CEO who is not interested in actually running a company...he'll pretty much leave when the financial transaction is complete, leaving the messy consolidation efforts of his brainchild to others....
 
Lemurs
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:13 am

RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 35):
Hm-mm....Alaska doesn't add to bottom-line; they don't have any "jewels" that we wouldn't be able to get on our own; given time and the bad luck of some airlines in financial straits.

The Alaska cargo market is one. That's nothing to scoff at, it's been the bread and butter for AS for a very long time now, and many airlines would like to have as reliable a source of revenue as that. AS also has nice fleet commonality with the impending phase-out of the MD-80s, and virtually no network overlap. I'm not saying CO needs or wants AS, but they're a much better match than any other airline you can care to name. Avoiding redundancy while finding complimentary benefits is the name of the game in successful mergers. CO and UA compete on many fronts. AS and CO compete on almost none.

That said, neither airline would be interested in the headache that a marger entails. People forget how much work goes into this stuff, and it really doesn't work out very well most of the time.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting Atnight (Reply 17):
'm not full of opinions sir, just have more facts to prove my point of view....

For someone who in one post prides himself on supporting himself with facts....

Quoting Atnight (Reply 20):
Also, just so that 777STL and others who may think like him may see, in a merger between CO and UA (or UA and DL), one company will likely aquire the other instead of becoming two (something that I have said makes no sense).... so in a CO-UA merger one name will remain and the other be dropped or at best for those hopeful, a new name could be place (which I believe will not happen)..... here's a quote in the news article which mentions that Ray Neidl, an analyst in the subject commented the following:

"Neidl said that if a merger does take place, United will likely be the buyer."

....and then supports his opinion, which he passes off as fact, with someone else's opinion, I'll get my info from somewhere else, thanks. Got to love the armchair CEOs, especially when they haven't a clue.
PHX based
 
User avatar
ptharris
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:58 pm

RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting CO767FA (Reply 24):
I could possibly see only the name "United" surviving; the rest: Logo, Type face, frequent flyer program, Presidents Club, colors, uniforms, cutlery and everything else would say "Continental" and the rest of the world would know it was the real survivor.

Oh my... Continental and a merger/buyout.. can we say Eastern?  stirthepot 

Quoting Scaledesigns (Reply 32):
United fly "continental"

into the ground again!

1st time Lorenzo
2nd time Tilton

Amen! Someone had to say it!  taekwondo 
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atnight
Posts: 537
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:06 am

RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 36):
And you base this statement on what?

Continental is huge in Europe and Mexico/Central/South America. United's brand, in my opinion, carries no better reputation the the Continental brand. In fact, Continental has for year been rated a better airline than United by JDPower, OAG and others.

Do some of you think I'm against CO?.... instead of trying to read objectively, you say something that is completely off the subject of which I was talking about.... Look, I have being a loyal CO FF Elite customer for the past 10 years and KNOW first hand their service, their reputation, etc.... I know CO and love their service.... also I believe that of the big US airlines, CO is at the moment the best one (IMHO), but that doesn't mean that in a merger CO's name is going to be the one staying.... read my first post and I"ll say it again.... I HATE to see a merger of CO with any airline... they are fine as they are now.... steady growth while keeping the great service.... However, most reports and analysts that talk and support a merger with United, point out that the management would be CO's, while most likely the brand would be United.... Trying to prove that to some of you is like a crime.... I REALLY hope a merger NEVER HAPPENS.... but it if ever does, mark my words... the Continental brand will be the first to disappear in favor of United or a hybrid brand.... So please guys, don't spend your time trying to tell me about CO like if I was a supporter of UA....again, I know CO, I fly CO, I LOVE CO....

Quoting 777STL (Reply 40):
....and then supports his opinion, which he passes off as fact, with someone else's opinion, I'll get my info from somewhere else, thanks.

You seriously have issues to accept that someone else's "opinions" make sense based on market conditions (facts)... I wasn't trying to prove my opinions, I was just putting a link from another analyst (unbiased) that basically said the same thing I said... if the majority of the folks who are into airline mergers see United as the brand to eventually buy out CO or DL and be the name to stay, (although management will of course change), wouldn't that show you that such prediction is not based on a personal "view", but rather on market figures and conditions, which are indeed facts? Again, if most analysts tells you "United will merge with CO, CO will manage but United is the likely name to remain", would you still say that's just a personal view? There are evidences and facts on the industry that make it clear why that will happen if a merger would take place, but if you don't want to see them and instead accuse of "personal opinions", then I guess there is not hope. The saying goes, "none so blind as those who will not see"....
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jetdeltamsy
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting Atnight (Reply 42):
However, most reports and analysts that talk and support a merger with United, point out that the management would be CO's, while most likely the brand would be United....

What analysts? Which reports? All I asked was on what basis you made such a statement. Tell us, i'm interested.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Falcon84
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 26):
UA/CO: Yukon

How About "ConU"?
 biggrin 
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CHIFLYGUY
Posts: 133
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:54 am

Seems to me that Tilton is looking for his exit strategy. United has a fantastic brand and incredible assets, but its cost base and operations are not where they need to be to dominate in the long term. Operating this thing post-BK is going to be difficult.

I read the Crain's article. It looks like UA is not just looking at an outright sale, but also a carve up of the company. Actually, a carve up, or at least the threat of one, is the only way to extract value from the company. NW and DL are in bankruptcy and as a result are highly unlikely to be able to pull off a purchase of the entire company. (NW wouldn't be a good fit anyway). That's leaves AA and CO. I've made no secret that I think AA/UA is the ultimate combination, but the DOT would most likely deep six this and I don't see AA desirous of doing a deal anyway. That would leave CO as the sole bidder, unless some private equity group came forward. That's not a recipe for a high price - you can't have a bidding war with only one bidder. The answer is to carve it up.

Auction at a minimum the following pieces:

LHR routes/authority
NRT routes/authority (possbily with HKG bundled)
China routes/authority (possibly with HKG bundled)
Remaining stub (US domestic, Latin America, Europe ex-LHR, Australia) - Some assets could be unbundled if people wanted to bid.

AA would be interested in bidding for the NRT hub and China frequencies.

DL very much would be interested in bidding for the NRT hub, China frequencies, and LHR. I would expect that the bankruptcy court would allow them to pursue at least one of these, and the logical one is LHR. Their existing $20 million deal for NYC-LON authority shows that they don't expect open skies any time soon. Plus, AA cannot bid for LHR and this makes them the sole non-CO bidder.

The outcomes are that either CO gets the whole thing, or CO gets a part and AA and/or DL take a chunk.

AA may take a pass on this because of how conservative they've been, but I would expect them to at least make a run at a once in a lifetime opportunity to get 5th freedom in NRT.

If CO buys United, the name of the resulting company would be United. Sorry CO fans.
 
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STT757
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 45):

It would be run by the folks in Houston.
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Falcon84
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 45):
LHR routes/authority
NRT routes/authority (possbily with HKG bundled)
China routes/authority (possibly with HKG bundled)

If UA would sell that off in a carve-up, CO would try to snap that up in a second-along with some fleet assets to go with it. That would make CO's presence truly world-wide.

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 45):
If CO buys United, the name of the resulting company would be United. Sorry CO fans.

As bad as UA's rep has been lately, I think yo might be surprised at what the name would be.
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klkla
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 45):
Seems to me that Tilton is looking for his exit strategy. United has a fantastic brand and incredible assets, but its cost base and operations are not where they need to be to dominate in the long term. Operating this thing post-BK is going to be difficult

Very well said and probably closest to the truth from most of the posts I have seen on this subject. Companies bring in Goldman Sachs to see how much they are worth in a sale or break up, not for acquiring other companies. I think Tilton has come to this realization and is going to be the seller, not the buyer.

Your theory about a break up is also a likely scenario if the right buyer can't be found for the company as a whole. I think the Tokyo hub (and fifth freedom rights) has to be the single biggest asset. The only thing working against a break up is that there wouldn't be much of a demand for the domestic operation (not because it's a bad network but because domestic operations in the U.S. are not that profitable in general compared to international).
 
flygbear
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RE: UAL Merger Talks

Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:20 am

I can't imagine UA would sell off the NY-LON route and center on Asia if it were not because they're dealing with a merger, such as CO having EWR now the being such the hub to Europe.
Is it not unfortunately a fact that ANY merger will only benefit the executives while the rank and file being left far behind? Did not AA do that to the city of St. Louis and the employees system-wide? AA simply bought out the competition.

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