quickmover
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Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:59 am

Maybe this is off the wall thinking, but with all the UAL potential merger talk, I'm thinking a WN/FL merger would make sense for both carriers IMO.

FL is now up against a much leaner Delta in ATL. FL's response, so far, is cutting planned growth next year.

I'm sure Delta is disappointed about that.

Southwest isn't as accomodating for the competition as Airtran is. They are adding jets and market share. They would like to add more 737s if they could get them. FL has several 737s and alot more on order. WN would like to move into ATL. WN has overlooked different fleet types in the past (ATA), so the 717s might not be an issue.

Just speculation, but stranger things have happened.
 
Cessna057
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:10 am

I personaly do not think it could work out. They have conflicting buisness plans and many of the same destinations. But, on the other hand, their focus city at BWI could be expanded into a hub. Still, I don't think it could happen.
Hold it . . . Hold it . . . HOLD THE FREAKIN NOSE UP!!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
WN has overlooked different fleet types in the past (ATA), so the 717s might not be an issue.

Southwest did indeed run a 727-200 back in the late-1970s, and a half-dozen in the mid-1980s, and even had Transtar's small fleet of MD80s operating as a subsidiary (for a short while in the 1980s, until they were liquidated), but all those are small potatoes when it comes to inheriting what, 75-80 717s?

FWIW, of all the rumors running around here, a WN/FL merger/acquisition isn't one of them....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:40 am

I don't see WN deviating from their business model. They don't need to. They are highly profitable and have the kinks worked out of their network.

When they purchased TranStar (formerly MuseAir), they just shut it down rather than integrate it into Southwest.

There have been other mergers (Morris Air) where they integrated the networks, but there was aircraft commonality.

I don't see this happening with FL flying so many B717's.

I do, however, think FL is a prime merger canidadate in the next few years.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
emseeeye
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:41 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 2):
even had Transtar's small fleet of MD80s operating as a subsidiary (for a short while in the 1980s, until they were liquidated),

Wasnt that Muse air?
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 4):

Wasnt that Muse air?

As originally formed, yes, but they later changed the name and that's what it was when we acquired them...


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[Edited 2006-09-26 04:47:54]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
atlaaron
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:47 am

Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
WN would like to move into ATL.

Says who?
 
jerion
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:16 pm

What about AirTran and Alaska??
Could that work?
L10/D9S/D10/M80/M88/732/733/734/735/73G/738/72S/757/762/763/320/319/318/ERJ
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:24 pm

Quoting Jerion (Reply 7):
What about AirTran and Alaska??
Could that work?

Actually the route maps would blend well together. FL is strong on the East coast and AS on the west coast. Would blend nicely. Also they both have 737's so that is good but then FL has 717's and AS has the MD80's. I guess they could have all 3 because they already have the parts and everything but they could pick one and dump one, most likely the Md-80's if they aren't already (Don't really keep up with AS so fill me in).

B6jfk airplane 
 
Cessna057
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:27 pm

Quoting Jerion (Reply 7):
What about AirTran and Alaska??
Could that work?

That is deffinitly something that could possibly work. Route maps compliment each other and equipment is fairly similar (733/73G/738)
Hold it . . . Hold it . . . HOLD THE FREAKIN NOSE UP!!
 
B6WNQX
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 8):
AS has the MD80's



Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 8):
(Don't really keep up with AS so fill me in).

If I remember correctly they are supposed to have all Mad Dogs out fo the system by 2008. They increased their order for 738's in order to get rid of them as well as performing some lease buy backs on their MD-80's to make it easier to get rid of them. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 2):
FWIW, of all the rumors running around here, a WN/FL merger/acquisition isn't one of them....

That just means it's TRUE!!  Smile

Quoting Cessna057 (Reply 9):
That is deffinitly something that could possibly work. Route maps compliment each other and equipment is fairly similar (733/73G/738)

It would be 717/MD80(for now)/734/73G/738/739. So essentially 717/734/737NG. Not bad, but do either of them gain much by a merger? There is a lot of territory between them - it reminds me a lot of the USAir+PSA merger.

I do agree that AirTran would appear to be a carrier that might be involved in a merger in the next few years. They haven't seemed to be as aggressive in their growth into new the west, and appear to be hesitating a little on their growth. Their strong SE franchise offers someone a nice alternative to Delta in a very busy market. I guess we'll see.

-Dave
-Dave
 
N1120A
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:03 pm

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 8):
Quoting Jerion (Reply 7):
What about AirTran and Alaska??
Could that work?

Actually the route maps would blend well together. FL is strong on the East coast and AS on the west coast

Can anyone say USAir/PSA? They would still have no strength in the middle of the country. Now, if only F9 had 737s, a 3 way merger would be a juggernaut

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 8):
FL has 717's and AS has the MD80's.

There is little if any commonality between the two and definately no pilot commonality.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Now, if only F9 had 737s, a 3 way merger would be a juggernaut

That's what I was thinking, but indeed the fleet seems like a deal breaker. Could you imagine an A32X/73G/717 fleet? Plus morsels of 734's and MD80's? Well, it'd be interesting, that's for sure!

What about the oft-mentioned AirTran+Midwest, with Alaska thrown in? Hmmm...

-Dave
-Dave
 
quickmover
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:37 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 3):
I don't see WN deviating from their business model. They don't need to. They are highly profitable and have the kinks worked out of their network.

I don't think WN would deviate from their model. The 737G modifications would only require taking out the business class and paint. As for the 717s, I'm sure Boeing could find a buyer for that fleet somewhere in the world. WN is a very important customer for Boeing.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:51 pm

Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
WN would like to move into ATL.



Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 6):
Says who?

Well, all one has to do is look at WN's route map to see a few glaring ommissions in large cities where they have absolutely ZERO penetration, i.e. ATL, MSP, CLT. That won't last much longer - couple of years at most I would think.
 
quickmover
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:05 pm

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 15):
Well, all one has to do is look at WN's route map to see a few glaring ommissions in large cities where they have absolutely ZERO penetration, i.e. ATL, MSP, CLT. That won't last much longer - couple of years at most I would think.

The so called experts said WN would never go to PHL or DEN either. I agree that it's only a matter of time until they come to ATL. If they combined with FL, they could instantly have gates and planes for ATL use. The other outstations may or may not be needed, depending on WN's facilities in each city. The 717s could slowly be phased out as more 737s are built.
 
N200WN
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:00 am

I've always thought WN and FL would make a nice combination. If there's to be consolidation in the network ranks I don't see why it also wouldn't happen to some extent in the LCC ranks as well. I think B6 and F9 would make a good match.
 
cloudy
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 16):

The so called experts said WN would never go to PHL or DEN either. I agree that it's only a matter of time until they come to ATL.

Agreed, but Atlanta is probably the last major market they will enter. Airtran is a pretty good competitor. However, WN has gotten to the point now where it can enter virtually any sizable market and do well just with trafic originating at their strong points(MDW, LAS, etc.). If they enter ATL soon, we may end up seeing a Detroit-style profitable but stagnent operation. The same could happen to DEN if they can't win enough local originating traffic in the long term.

If we go by Southwest's recent behavior, the next sizable market they enter will probably be MSP or some other hub that has a dominate legacy carrier but no strong LCC presence.
 
airfrnt
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
FL is now up against a much leaner Delta in ATL. FL's response, so far, is cutting planned growth next year.

I'm sure Delta is disappointed about that.

FL's growth slowdown is partially a reflection of the market, partially a reflection of the fact that they are being strangled in ATL by space considerations. DL is doing everything they can to make sure that FL doesn't have room to expand.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 3):
I do, however, think FL is a prime merger canidadate in the next few years.

I think it's not insane to expect to see WN in ATL by hook or crook shortly. DEN has proven that they can enter a established market with a major and with a LCC in the same market. Now that being said, I don't know where WN would get the 3-6 gates that they would need to make the operation profitable.

As far as FL with a merger, I once sat next to a bigwig in FL who openly speculated about a F9/FL merger. FL has no real west coast prescence, so I would expect to see a merger with a airline that had good west coast prescence.
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:46 am

I do see AirTran possibly joining a alliance, which would most likely be a possibility as to a full blown merger. If there was a merger, it would be better IMO to merge with a major carrier with large International route system that AirTran could cooperate with to feed. Keeping both brands seprate but equal. This way, a combined network can be diverisfied and not so dependent on domestic travel as a merger with a fellow typical LCC.

Quoting Jerion (Reply 7):
What about AirTran and Alaska??
Could that work?

I've thought about that before, but where is the synergy when a blight of trans-con service already exists.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 14):
I don't think WN would deviate from their model.

Their business model has adjusted from its original form as the environment has called for it. If there was the apropriate situation for a WN-FL merger, IMO the merger would have a better chance of success than many other combinations.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 18):
Agreed, but Atlanta is probably the last major market they will enter. Airtran is a pretty good competitor. However, WN has gotten to the point now where it can enter virtually any sizable market and do well just with trafic originating at their strong points(MDW, LAS, etc.). If they enter ATL soon, we may end up seeing a Detroit-style profitable but stagnent operation. The same could happen to DEN if they can't win enough local originating traffic in the long term.

If we go by Southwest's recent behavior, the next sizable market they enter will probably be MSP or some other hub that has a dominate legacy carrier but no strong LCC presence.

I wouldn't be surprised if ATL was the final large city after MSP (and CLT). Frankly, I suspect they will do an IAD-like operation in ATL where they go in with 20-30 flights so as to tap into some incremental revenue and add the city as a business and leisure destination. Like IAD, if the 20-30 flights perform well and there are more opportunities then they will grow, if not, they will just provide limited service indefinitely.
 
united319
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 3):
I do, however, think FL is a prime merger canidadate in the next few years.

I will quit AirTran Airways on the day that we decide to merge with southwest airlines, though we have fleet cominality and we are both low cost carriers, the business models are very different, and so are our products. The only rumours that I could see happening would be an FL/F9 merger, or FL buying out midwest airlines. I know there is a lot to argue, its just what ive heard.
It's Time To Fly
 
QFSYD744
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
I'm thinking a WN/FL merger would make sense for both carriers IMO.

WN in the Atlanta market is something that Delta Airlines does not need anytime soon. Atlanta is delay prone, even more so than LAX, and MDW. The thought of WN with a base in ATL does not make sense. However, WN would not mind taking over the Florida and New York routes operated by FL. However, if WN wanted they could increase Florida op's. Slots at LGA are a problem, and that is something than FL can deliver to WN. FL, so far has been doing good when going against WN in MDW. Keep in mind that honeymoon of sorts is not going to last.

Frontier/Jet Blue makes very good sense. Yet as can be seen time and time again that idea has been shot down by many.

Alaska/Midwest makes good sense. Both airlines are known for their quality product, however, the routes may not compliment each other as well as one may have hoped for.

Spirit/Sun Country would make sense, in the oddest of Worlds. It would be ironic and a blow to Northwest Airlines if these two airlines merged into one. The airline would be based in both Detroit and Minneapolis and causing a more than severe headache for chaotic Northwest Airlines, and their almost stagnant efforts to revitalise their image.
I Still Call Australia Home
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):

There is little if any commonality between the two and definately no pilot commonality.

I know that was my point. The 717 and the Md80 are different.

Quoting B6WNQX (Reply 10):
If I remember correctly they are supposed to have all Mad Dogs out fo the system by 2008. They increased their order for 738's in order to get rid of them as well as performing some lease buy backs on their MD-80's to make it easier to get rid of them. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

Sounds good to me, thank you!

B6jfk airplane 
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:52 am

I've thought for a while a FL/AS merger would do well...

Looking at the route maps, it wouldn't take much to make it a nice operation. The key would probably be getting more space at MDW, then move AS from ORD to MDW and add a few new routes, such as:

MDW-SFO
MDW-LAX
MDW-SAN
MDW-DEN
MDW-MEM
MDW-ICT
MDW-HOU
MDW-MCI

As well as

ATL-SEA
ATL-PDX
BWI-SEA
BWI-SFO
BWI-LAS
DFW-SFO
DFW-LAX
SEA-MCI
SEA-PHL
SEA-MSP
SEA-IND
SEA-HOU

And of course, ATL to the Mexican destinations...

Finally, what about the name? Flying "Alaska" from Baltimore to Charlotte, or "AirTran" from Fairbanks to Barrow just doesn't quite seem right.... Hmmmm.

- Travis
 
steeler83
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:08 pm

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 16):
The so called experts said WN would never go to PHL or DEN either.

Throw in PIT with this as well, with the outrageous landing fees and other operating costs.

There was talk of them entering CLT, but I don't know if/when that will happen, considering that they look at O&D. I read on another thread on here that CLT's O&D is actually lower than PIT or CLE, which I found rather odd... Still, it's an inexpensive facility to operate out of, and I suppose they could draw more people from within a 2hr drive to fly out of there to markets like BWI, PHL, MDW, LAS and DEN, but then again, most of any routes out of CLT would go head to head against US, which has their fortress domestic hub at CLT.

I am not sure what to think of such a merger, besides I don't see it happening either. My reasons have already been posted on here though, so I won't rehash... If this were to happen though, BWI would likely become a hub, given that WN has a massive station there, as does FL. I do wonder what IND would look like. FL is building up IND and I believe that WN already flies there if I am not mistaken...

I mean, if you even look at their networking, WN is mostly O&D/point-to-point, while FL is mostly hub-and-spoke, or should I say, "mega" hub-and-spoke, since they only have one hub, ATL, with scores of spokes...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
WDBRR
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:38 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 23):
Frontier/Jet Blue makes very good sense. Yet as can be seen time and time again that idea has been shot down by many.

I totally agree...Frontier/Jetblue would be a marriage made in heaven.
they both would compliment each other on routes east and west coasts
and both have PTV.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:54 pm

I still think a FL/YX merger would make sense....
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
quickmover
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 28):
I still think a FL/YX merger would make sense....

I like that idea too, but I'm not sure what they would do with MKE if it happened. FL has tried to make MDW a focus city. Would it make sense to focus at MDW and MKE at the same time?

MCI has big potential. I'm amazed at how well YX has done against WN there. Very strong loads.
 
dacman
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:44 pm

Even though I work for Southwest Airlines and LUV the MD95 (717-200) and would like nothing more than to see this DAC beauty in the WN livery this is one merger that I can honestly say would never happen.

Michael
Dacman
LAX/LGB Local
"Airliner Photography is not a crime"
 
steeler83
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 27):
I totally agree...Frontier/Jetblue would be a marriage made in heaven.
they both would compliment each other on routes east and west coasts
and both have PTV.

Not to mention, aircraft type... They both bly A319/A320 aircraft. I am not sure of the fate of the E90s though if this were to happen
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
steeler83
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 27):
I totally agree...Frontier/Jetblue would be a marriage made in heaven.
they both would compliment each other on routes east and west coasts
and both have PTV.

Not to mention, aircraft type... They both bly A319/A320 aircraft. I am not sure of the fate of the E90s though if this were to happen
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
ScottB
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Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 29):

MCI has big potential. I'm amazed at how well YX has done against WN there. Very strong loads.

I'm not as bullish on MCI for YX. In most markets from MCI where WN and YX compete directly, WN enjoys a revenue premium and/or larger market share. I think YX does well at MCI in markets where they don't compete non-stop with WN (i.e. BOS, DCA, FLL, LGA, MKE, PIT, RSW, SAT, SFO). They're unable to compete with WN on a cost basis with ex-fuel ASM costs that are about 10% higher than WN, not to mention buying unhedged fuel in the short term.

Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
Southwest isn't as accomodating for the competition as Airtran is. They are adding jets and market share. They would like to add more 737s if they could get them. FL has several 737s and alot more on order. WN would like to move into ATL.

The problem is that if they were to buy AirTran, they'd also get stuck with 80-some-odd 717's with extremely limited prospects for getting out of the associated leases. The number of 737-700's currently in FL's fleet is only roughly equivalent to the number of new -700's Southwest will take delivery of from Boeing next year. And again, most of these are either leased or mortgaged; the vast majority of Southwest's fleet is owned outright and unmortgaged. They'd also end up having to pay Southwest wage rates to the former AirTran employees; in 2005, Southwest's labor cost per full-time equivalent was 74% higher than AirTran's.

It would be an utter disaster.
 
B6WNQX
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 24):
Sounds good to me, thank you!

Anytime, glad to help.

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 27):
Frontier/Jetblue would be a marriage made in heaven.



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 31):
They both bly A319/A320 aircraft.

I think the only problem would be the A318 & E190 issue. They are designed for more or less the same mission. F9 loves their A318's, hence why they ordered more. B6 doesn't like the idea of a smaller Airbi jet, if they did they would have went with the A318 instead of the E190. While I think that this would be a small issue to deal with, I think it is one thing to think about. Also, I heard somewhere that they both (F9 & B6) use different engines on their Airbi, maybe Mariner can confirm(he seems to know a lot about these two companies escpecially F9). They both have a large enough fleet that the only trick will be is making sure it gets to the correct maintance facility for major work, other than that, not much of a problem.

I would love to see F9 & B6 marry, but I am not sure if either of them are in a position to do it.
 
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antoniemey
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting B6WNQX (Reply 34):
I would love to see F9 & B6 marry, but I am not sure if either of them are in a position to do it.

I wouldn't... I'm sure Neeleman would have too much ego to let go of his airline's name, and the animals on the tails just wouldn't work with the name "JetBlue"
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
emseeeye
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:50 am

RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting B6WNQX (Reply 34):
think about. Also, I heard somewhere that they both (F9 & B6) use different engines on their Airbi, maybe Mariner can confirm(he seems to know a lot about these two companies escpecially F9)

Correct, B6 uses the V2500 and F9 has the CFM's. I think US/HP and F9 are the only Airbus/CFM operators in the US.

http://www.cfm56.com/news/press/2006/cfm06-13.htm

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 35):
I wouldn't... I'm sure Neeleman would have too much ego to let go of his airline's name, and the animals on the tails just wouldn't work with the name "JetBlue"

True. I would hate to get on another F9 plane only to see Neelemans shining mug talking into the PA system.
 
Vctony
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:49 am

NW is another US based A320 operatior that uses CFMs.
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 5):
Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 4):

Wasnt that Muse air?

As originally formed, yes, but they later changed the name and that's what it was when we acquired them...

Actually, if I recall, WN bought Muse, then renamed it to Transtar as a subsidiary until dismantling/absorbing it. Lamar Muse, one of WN's founders, was still in charge of his namesake Muse Air upon the purchase, but stepped down shortly thereafter. Again, this is from memory, someone can probably confirm for me.

As per the topic, WN has purchased other airlines to diminish competition, as has FL, but they're both considerably larger nowadays and much larger than the competitors they absorbed in the past. A merger or purchase would be massively complicated, and probably necessary only under dire circumstances, which I don't see yet.

-Rampart
 
txagkuwait
Posts: 1388
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RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:36 am

Quote:
Actually, if I recall, WN bought Muse, then renamed it to Transtar as a subsidiary until dismantling/absorbing it. Lamar Muse, one of WN's founders, was still in charge of his namesake Muse Air upon the purchase, but stepped down shortly thereafter. Again, this is from memory, someone can probably confirm for me.

Very good memory.

Another few fun facts.

The TranStar subsidiary began making a profit in, as I recall, July or August of 1985.

TranStar as a wholly owned subsidiary of Southwest achieved what may be the lowest CASM of any airline in modern times....somewhere in the 4.5 to 4.6 cent per ASM range.

The problem was that the DOT and DOJ were not real good about enforcing antitrust and predatory competition regulations....and Lorenzo over at Continental did not want to see WN get a toehold in the longer haul markets.

At one time MC (TranStar's code) had a walk up fare HOU-LAX or HOU-MIA of...get this.....$59. Continental cut that to $49.

MuseAir might have made it on its own and lived to put the hurt on Southwest....except for the fact that the wrong Muse kid was in charge and by the time Lamar came back from retirement to salvage it, the patient was too far gone.
 
emseeeye
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:50 am

RE: Airtran/Southwest Combined?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:05 pm

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 39):
MuseAir might have made it on its own and lived to put the hurt on Southwest....except for the fact that the wrong Muse kid was in charge and by the time Lamar came back from retirement to salvage it, the patient was too far gone.

BAck in the early 80's we lived in Houston and my uncle lived in Ft Worth. About once every couple of months he used to travel to Houston on Muse Air. I remember him saying and always laughing that he would get some crazy discounted rate for turning in a pack of cigarettes... I know this sounds strange but my Father and both my Uncle are passed on now so I cannot verify it.

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