Argentina
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Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:33 pm

According to local press, AR will announce new investment plan today (Tuesday), including planes, spares and engines. I read this in local paper LA NACION, Saturday 23rd, edition
It says fleet will go from 52 to 77 aircraft.

Here is the link in spanish:
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/economia/....asp?nota_id=842909&origen=ranking

Also, the article mentions that AR has signed an agreement with AA for flights to JFK.

I got no more data than this source, anyone can confirm?
 
justapassenger
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:42 pm

As I read the article, AR will stop flying MIA-JFK and put its passengers on an AA flight from MIA to JKF instead. They only have 40 passengers continuing on to NY and the cost of fuel is prohibitive. When they get their new planes, they will fly again to New York.
 
kappel
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:46 pm

Are they still going to take delivery of their a346's? Delivery has been postponed a couple of times. Perhaps they will convert them to 350-1000's (what a stupid name, why not a350-300 or something). I don't know how old their 742's are, but my guess is they could use a replacement.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
justapassenger
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:58 pm

It is interesting that LAN Argentina just announced a planned major domestic and international expansion too.
Lan Argentina To Add 35 New Routes (by LIPZ Sep 26 2006 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2006-09-26 12:00:11]
 
ZKNBX
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:04 pm

AR need to get their act together or they are going to get completely obliterated by LAN. AR have 2 flights per week from EZE to AKL and SYD - operated by A342 (compared to newcomer LAN who now flies 6 x weekly SCL-AKL-SYD v/v with A343); LAN nearly always operate through to SYD on the tasman, but AR seem to cancel their AKL-SYD sector with alarming regularity (!). I suspect this is because of low loadings...
 
gabo787
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:48 pm

They need to put all their planes in flying conditions first, then I will believe new fleet announcements.
Anyway I'm sure that they will keep bringing 735 and maybe more A310 as new fleet.
 
LVICS
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:45 pm

I'm not very familiar with this, but isn't it weird to make a formal announcement "We'll buy spare parts for the aircrafts we operate"?
 
Lanas
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 4):
completely obliterated by LAN

It´s different. You can say that if you compared two airlines operating from the same country, fulfilling the same needs.
LAN nowadays is more powerful than AR, but I´m positive that better days will come.

Quoting LVICS (Reply 6):
but isn't it weird to make a formal announcement "We'll buy spare parts for the aircrafts we operate"?

Absolutely. Keeping the airplanes in good shape is what they´re supposed to do, so it´s kind of a joke that they make such an announcement.

Cheers!
Lanas.-
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens." J.R.R. Tolkien
 
A388
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:06 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 2):
Are they still going to take delivery of their a346's?

AFAIK the AR A346 order has been cancelled all together but I'm 100 % sure. In any way AR will not take delivery of those A346's especially now that they use the 744. I see AR adding more A330s instead of larger aircraft for the time being. Who knows the A350XWB will become an attractive replacement for the entire AR longhaul fleet in about 5-7 years.

A388
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:11 am

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 4):
I suspect this is because of low loadings...

You suspect incorrectly. Loadings are very good Transtasman. It is cancelled due to lack of aircraft. They just want to turn the aircraft around as quickly as they can to EZE so they can use the aircraft elsewhere. The addition of 3 A343s soon should help to ease the fleet issues somewhat. I'm not sure if they're a temp measure or what.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
ZKNBX
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 4:12 pm

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 9):
You suspect incorrectly. Loadings are very good Transtasman. It is cancelled due to lack of aircraft. They just want to turn the aircraft around as quickly as they can to EZE

Then why is the a/c on the ground in Auckland from about 6 a.m. until 4.15pm when it heads back to EZE?
 
jfk777
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:14 pm

I'm happy AR is finally getting more airplanes, but which ones? Are they long Haul or Short haul? Too many questions; too few answers.
 
ZKNBX
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:26 pm

So what happened to the announcement? Another AR non-event rumour? Would be really nice to see some serious action from AR for once.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:37 pm

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 10):
Then why is the a/c on the ground in Auckland from about 6 a.m. until 4.15pm when it heads back to EZE?

It isn't. as per this Sunday, they arrive late from EZE at say 1300-1400, and depart at 1615 for EZE
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
ZKNBX
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:45 pm

So the "cancelled" on the Sydney portion (see AKL arrivals etc) is simply indicative of the fact that it is a recent change, and passengers for Sydney presumably find seats on NZ, EK, and QF - all of which have services in the afternoon / early evening to Sydney. This can't be helping AR to maintain their presence in the market.
 
gusnyc
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:08 pm

I wonder how Aerolineas will pay for those planes.

I can't imagine orders for new Airbus 350. I would say they could afford some old 763 to fill up the gaps they have now in their fleet.

I think the 310 is too big and too costly to operate for regional routes and too small for longer flights, like Miami.

G
 
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LTU932
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 8):
AFAIK the AR A346 order has been cancelled all together but I'm 100 % sure.

If I recall correctly, the AR A346 order has been deferred "indefinitely".
 
Argentina
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:42 pm

Today (Thursday) all newspapers -digital versions in spanish- in Argentina tell about a meeting between AR shareholders and President Kirchner. They are now at Casa Rosada announcing the incorporation of 37 aircraft, 14 of those arriving before year end, and to be deployed in domestic/regional routes mostly. They say the investment plan reachs USD 1000 M.

Some other sources (Ambito Financiero paper) mentions an all Airbus fleet in 3 years, indicating B747 and B737 will be sold or redelivered to lessors. I will try to confirm these versions and keep you posted.
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:48 pm

I know that AR have failed to deliver on so many of it's promises, yet they did keep the renewal program of the 732's alive.

Also, one of the only reasons LA is able to serve SYD/AKL is largely thanks to QF. Remember how success full the AR/QF code share was? Well the same thing for LA. Most of the seats sold on LA are that of QF!
LA has the advantage of been a OneWorld member and so can benefit from feeder traffic from all of Australia and New Zealand. Something AR has not been able to do. I am not taking anything away from LA success, but all these things must be taken into consideration.
 
miamix707
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:21 am

LAN is a company with setups in Peru, Ecuador, (Dom. Republic which I guess didn't work) and now Argentina.. possibly Brazil soon. A company that has capitalized on the lack of long haul international air service by the carriers of those countries. A company with monopolistic intentions that is well-managed.

The rest of the continent's carriers such as AArgentinas will have a tough time competing. If airlines in S. America don't get it together it's gonna be LAN SouthAmerica in a few years  Sad  Smile

A few questions..

Will a slightly more efficient fleet make that much difference in AR? It seems the ordering of A346s was a poor idea. Meanwhile LAN for example, does it with 767s, and a few A343s. Does the part thing mean the'll pull some of the classic 747s back in service?

Is the company no longer under the Marsans group?

Could we expect a fresh, new corporate image soon?
 
Lanas
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting Argentina (Reply 17):
B747 and B737 will be sold or redelivered to lessors

I don´t think so. That was said about the 747s when all the A330 deal came up. But I see it very unlikely. Regarding the 737s, first all the 200s must go and upgrade all fleet to 500s. All of AR's short haul operations handle Boeing material (also for spare parts, maintenance, etc) so I believe it will be pretty hard, economically speaking, to change the platform from Boeing to Airbus.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 19):
it's gonna be LAN SouthAmerica in a few years

Not by any chance. LAN is pretty absent in the Argentine market, for starters. It´s gonna take a while before that happens, and besides, LAN´s planes aren´t always full, as far as I know, and their loads are very comparable to the ones of AR´s aircraft (on the routes they share, of course).

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 19):
Is the company no longer under the Marsans group?



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 19):
new corporate image soon?

It is still under the Marsans group, but now the Argentine state has a bigger share of it.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 19):
Does the part thing mean the'll pull some of the classic 747s back in service?

No, they´ll be used for backup, as far as I know.

Cheers!
Lanas.-
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens." J.R.R. Tolkien
 
jfk777
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:56 am

AR needs help, I wonder if the people in madrid care and give a dam? Everything in Argentina was sold in the early 1990's to mostly Spanish firms, they wrote many things off and never looked back. This is AR's second trip to the Spansih Spin cycle.
 
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Renton_WA
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:48 am

Crazy, believe it when I see it, news...

Sorry only in Spanish

http://www.lagaceta.com.ar/vernota.a..._seccion=9&seccion=&id_nota=176582
This article above states that within 3 years Aerolineas will go to an all Airbus fleet.

The one below from La Nacion states that AR will acquire 37 "new" aircraft progressively until 2009, US$ 1000 millon investment, but no specific models mentioned.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/844447

We'll see.

Thoughts? Speculations?
10 330-200 that have been mentioned before with the Marsan order, plus?

Maybe some A380?!  Yeah sure  rotfl   rotfl 
 
Jj
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:29 am

Believe it when I see it. Just as I said that it's virtually impossible for LAN Arg to start 35 new routes, I honestly can't see AR incorporating 14 aircraft before year's end. Really. And an all airbus fleet, meaning that all 737's and MD's will be retired? Come on, you're talking more than 40 airplanes replaced in the next 2-3 years. It's plausible, but when you factor in that we're talking about AR, this sounds more like a dream than anything else.

I hope I'm wrong though!
 
gusnyc
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:40 am

I totally agree with Jj.

Imagine if they can buy so many planes, when at the same time they are announcing as an achivement that they will be buying spare parts...

Sueños de grandeza...
 
Argentina
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:53 am

This is confirmed: 4 "additional" MD83's (for AU) are scheduled to be in the fleet by year end. MSN being:

49906 - Operating now in Air Plus Comet (never before in AU fleet) but delivered to Finnair
49741 (delivered to Finnair)
49904 (delivered to Finnair)
49789 (Ex BWIA)
 
Fyano773
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:12 am

Reading this article in América Economía magazine: Aerolíneas Argentinas invertirá US$ 1.000 M hasta 2009

AR will add 14 planes before year end:

  • 5 MD-8x.
  • 1 735-500
  • 8 Existing 737 to be refurbished.


About the long haul fleet, 800M will be invested by 2009 in the purchased of A332. At current list prices, one can think that 6 to 8 planes (maybe more) will be added. I would love to see this plane @ MEX in the future.

OTOH, AR is planning to double the fleet, as mentioned in the replies above, and to increase fleet utilization by 50%.

Very good news, AR.

Regards, Fyano
 
Argentina
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:37 pm

The announcements made last week are best understood if we read them as follows (according to El Mensajero Magazine):

Evolution of "Active" Fleet period 2006-2009

--------Today---12/06---12/07---12/08---12/09
B744-----2--------3-------4-------4---------4---
B742-----1--------1-------1-------1---------1---
A342-----3--------4-------6-------6---------6---
A313-----2--------2-------2-------2--------------
A332------------------------------------------6---
A320-----------------------4-------6---------10--
B735-----9-------10------10------10--------10--
B732----12-------18------18------18--------18--
MD80----11-------16------22------22--------22--

TOTAL---40-------54------67------69--------77--

We should distinguish real addittions to the fleet from those aircraft which will be put back into service:

Example: Today there are 9 B735 in svc, of a fleet of 11. At the end of the year, 10 B735 will be in svc, and 1 not, I assume in maintenance. B735 fleet is 11 in both cases, but this chart was made considering Active Fleet and it's important to clarify it.

So, regarding this, the real additions seem to be:

1 B744 in 2007
2 A342 in 2007
6 A332 in 2009
4+2+4 = 10 A320 in 2007-2008-2009
8?? MD80

Regarding B737-200's and B747-200's fleets I assume they will be put out of service, sold or whatever thru the years, so I guess their fleets should go down, as the A313 fleet does in 2009 (null)

MD80's fleet is not so clear for me, because today AU has 14 in the fleet (2 MD81 + 9 MD83 + 3 MD88), but there are some planes in Air Plus Comet which are supposed to go back to AU, and some others going into the fleet as real additions, and IMO, MD81 could possibly be retired soon.

Hope it helps
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:46 pm

Thank you for clearing all that up Argentina.
It does make more sense now.
I for one think that the plan can be achieved.
 
Lanas
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:51 pm

Good report, Argentina. What looks strangest to me is the addition of an A320 fleet. I insist, I don´t know how convenient it will be to add the Airbus platform for the short/medium-haul network.
The rest follows what has been announced for AR the last two months. I hope they make it. It´s a nice fleet plan.

Cheers!
Lanas.-
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens." J.R.R. Tolkien
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:23 pm

Is AR still serving JFK as I have not seen them in a couple of weeks. The last time I saw them is when someone on this board asked the same question I am asking.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
LVICS
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:35 pm

No, they are not serving NYC at the present time. IIRC, they stopped flying there about one month ago.
 
LVZXV
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 2):
I don't know how old their 742's are, but my guess is they could use a replacement.

I'm including those that are out of service (2) or flying for Air Plus Comet (2), but of AR's 5 surviving 742s, two date from 1979 (EC-JDH, LV-MLR), one from 1980 (LV-OEP), and two from 1981 (EC-IZL, JJG). AR's single active 742 dates from 1980, and has a crack on the fuselage. The "sixth" 742 which still appears on AR's fleet lists in 1978-build LV-MLO, which hasn't flown in nearly five years (and looks utterly dead and defeated).

Quoting Gabo787 (Reply 5):
Anyway I'm sure that they will keep bringing 735 and maybe more A310 as new fleet.

Don't be so sure, or at least not for now! The remaining 735s from China Southern ain't coming, and neither are the A310s from Air Plus.

Quoting Argentina (Reply 25):
49789 (Ex BWIA)

Doesn't exist, was scrapped some time ago. Though to acquire its remains might not be a bad idea, that way AU quits cannibalising its "new" acquisitions upon arrival (as they did with LV-BDE, BDO and BEG)...

As always, AR's fleet announcements are entertaining. If only the words "RES NON VERBA" meant something to the management...

Saludos,

ZXV

[Edited 2006-10-04 22:27:19]
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
EZEIZA
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:48 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 8):
I see AR adding more A330s instead of larger aircraft for the time being.

apparently 10 A330's of the 12 that marsans ordered should go to AR.

Quoting GusNYC (Reply 15):
I wonder how Aerolineas will pay for those planes.

It's Marsans, not AR. But now that the govt' has a major share in AR maybe they could chip in a few millions?
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:01 pm

I'm sure everyone will agree that AR needs new planes very quickly. The 735's do a good job on short haul sectors.

Argentina,

Will the A320's be powered by IAE or GE engines. Also when they get their 330's what will they be powered by? I ask since AR has pratts on the MD80 fleet and GE for the rest.


It's good that AR is getting a new fleet. Their improving but this is really improving.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
gusnyc
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:35 am

Does it make any sense for an airline with a relatively small fleet to have so many different planes and models? What about fleet commonality? Isn't that a great strategy to save millions on spare parts, training, facilities, etc...?

Why will they order 737s and 320s and MDs (even if those go to Austral?) Isn't enought choosing a family of planes like the A320 A321 or maybe 737-500/400/800?

Please, I need to understand.
 
Lanas
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RE: Aerolineas Argentinas Fleet Announcement Today?

Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting GusNYC (Reply 35):
Why will they order 737s and 320s and MDs (even if those go to Austral?) Isn't enought choosing a family of planes like the A320 A321 or maybe 737-500/400/800?

I see your point, that´s why the announcement of the A320s sounds pretty awkward to me. Better have an all Boeing fleet for AR, that eventually become a full fleet of 737-500s, and an all MD fleet for AU. I think the MD is an aircraft that gives very good results for domestic flights, that´s why I wouldn´t discard it.
As for the long-haul fleet, the acquisition of A330s isn´t that strange. It will share the same platform than the A340, since the aircraft types are quite similar.

Cheers
Lanas.-
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens." J.R.R. Tolkien

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