LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:53 am

According to ANAC sources, Delta Air Lines requested to Brazilian ANAC (same as US DOT) special approval to fly a daily flight to Salvador, one of the top 3 touristic destinations in Brazil, capital of Bahia, a state with a huge number of luxury resorts and nice destinations like IOS and BPS. SSA is not only low yield traffic, Braskem (petrochemical), Continental Tyres, Goodyear Tyres and one of the most profitable Ford units worldwide, among a good number of business.

This month, Mr. Didier, South America Director based in Rio, during a lunch to celebrate one year of GIG-ATL route (as well as the very good numbers DL obtained during this first year) announced that two major news would be announced during the next 2 months, and it seems SSA is one of them.

Today, according to Brazilian website Panrotas (www.panrotas.com.br) ANAC is willing to approve DL request as SSA is nowadays only 4% of all international flights to Brazil.

Could be the first daily non-stop service from US to Brazilian Northeast and a strong advise that everyone looking for new destinations (ANAC will not grant any rights to Sao Paulo, and they expect that after open more routes to Rio, Salvador, Porto Alegre and Manaus, even extra-flights will be not authorized any more to Sao Paulo).

DL grow in Brazil is amazing, in less than two years they come from 1 to 3 (probably 4) daily flights (2 from ATL, 1 from JFK and a possible ATL-SSA)

A question for our US members: If DL or an airline obtain extra frequencies with ANAC (ex-bilateral), they need to ask for DOT approval also ?

Let's see the next weeks.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24594
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:02 am

Daily flights? That is way overdoing it. You couldn't even get a daily flight to work to Miami or New York City. SSA is the best potential Northeast market from Atlanta (or anywhere in the US), but 3-4x weekly at most. None the less, it is not surprising to see Delta take advantage of this. I wonder if AA or CO will as well.

SSA is a good market, and as tourism from the US to Brazil expands, it will be the centre of that growth. TAM's MIA-SSA flights rarely leave empty, and a significantly large amount of passengers get on/off at SSA, not GRU.

[Edited 2006-09-27 00:05:00]
a.
 
atnight
Posts: 537
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:06 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:23 am

I am glad to see DL expanding in Latin America..... They are proving to be a great company taking their time in expanding but doing so steadily and in the right way... As I have said before, DL is already the 2nd US airline to south america and this just shows how committed they to the region... I wish them luck and hope they continue to prosper!
B707 B727 B733/5/7/8/9 B742/4 B752/3 B763/4 B772 A310 A318/319/320 A332 A343 MD80 DC9/10 CRJ200 ERJ145 ERJ-170 Be1900 Da
 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:36 am

If a US carrier asks the DOT for permission it's usually to petition for route rights. But in this case it seems the Brazilian government has approved DL, so DOT appoval is pretty much guaranteed.

When is the route scheduled to commence?
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:53 am

Could this route operate with a 738, or would it need to be a 757 or 767?
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
Could this route operate with a 738, or would it need to be a 757 or 767?

According to great circle mapper the flight is 4411 miles. I don't think the 757 has the range to do this flight. I assume they will do a 763.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting Exusair (Reply 3):
When is the route scheduled to commence?

They requested the ex-bilateral frequencies only, not confirmed by ANAC yet, but it's CEO yesterday confirmed that DL probably will receive the approval.
I believe a 3 to 6 month is needed to DL begin the route, after receive the approval.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 5):
According to great circle mapper the flight is 4411 miles. I don't think the 757 has the range to do this flight. I assume they will do a 763.

Even a 757 with Winglets is not capable to fly to SSA ?

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
teixeim
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:49 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:29 am

Great news - now if DL will only put some 763/764 or 777s with PTVs on the ATL-GRU/JFK-GRU routes, we'll be all set!
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):

Even a 757 with Winglets is not capable to fly to SSA ?

Yes it could... MIA-SSA is 3,372nm, not ~4400nm (Great Circle Mapper). The 757 (no winglets) has a 3,900nm range.

Cheers

Edit: Winglets would be a good idea considering the hot climate at both airports and the winds on the way back to MIA. Not to mention reduce fuel burn on the rather long flight.

[Edited 2006-09-27 19:51:05]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
akizidy214
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:10 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:56 am

Great news! I hope they get it! It's so time consuming flying DFW-GRU-SSA..But is there enough traffic for daily Service? TAM flys SSA-MIA but only on Sundays.
DCA
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4460
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:07 am

I think DL could successful pull this off, but maybe not daily. What about 3-5 times a week?
It is what it is...
 
ArtieFufkin
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:26 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:12 am

Woudn't you get some feed from FOR, , Manous (sp?),Recife, Brasillia seeing that GRU/GIG hubs are so far South, to back track North? It's a worse than MIA people having to go to ATL to fly to Brasil.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 8):

Yes it could... MIA-SSA is 3,372nm, not ~4400nm (Great Circle Mapper). The 757 (no winglets) has a 3,900nm range.

OK from ATL... my mistake... I expected them to offer a stop-over in MIA. Is that possible?

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2128
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:40 am

If DL flys the route, it will be non-stop from ATL not MIA, and it will not "stopover" in MIA. The 4400 nm distance is correct. This would be a good winter route for DL.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 5):
According to great circle mapper the flight is 4411 miles.

Statute miles, yes. Nautical miles, no

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 8):
MIA-SSA is 3,372nm,

This is ATL-SSA, which is 3833nm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 12):
OK from ATL... my mistake... I expected them to offer a stop-over in MIA. Is that possible?

It is possible, but not probably

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 13):
The 4400 nm distance is correct.

No it is not correct. That is the STATUTE MILES distance. It is 3833 NAUTICAL MILES. Needless to say, DL's 757s are not full weight 255,000 pound models, nor do they have winglets, so this will be a 767 flight.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
sampa737
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 2:20 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:05 am

YES! I have so many friends in northeast Brasil. I lived in Aracaju for 7 years. It's such a hassle changing and waiting for flights to the northeast out of Sao Paulo. We've waited as long as 4 hours between times. This is great news.
 
DLPMMM
Posts: 2128
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
No it is not correct. That is the STATUTE MILES distance. It is 3833 NAUTICAL MILES. Needless to say, DL's 757s are not full weight 255,000 pound models, nor do they have winglets, so this will be a 767 flight.

Correct

I took someone elses word for it on the distance.

The point being that the flight would be from ATL and as follows (and you pointed out) it would most likely be 763 equipment.

Being a "special ex bi-lateral" service somewhat due to the Varig problems and I assume during the low season only, will the flight be operating by the Christmas season? Salvador for Christmas would be nice this year, and I have extra Skymiles.
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Statute miles, yes. Nautical miles, no

That's what I meant. I'd have put 4411 nm if I meant nautical.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):

What are the ex SQ/ATA 757's that are flying BOG and UIO/GYE? Ships 6901-6904. Aren't they the "full weight, 255k, 757's that are capable of such legs?"
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting Exusair (Reply 18):
What are the ex SQ/ATA 757's that are flying BOG and UIO/GYE? Ships 6901-6904. Aren't they the "full weight, 255k, 757's that are capable of such legs?"

Every ATA 752 is certified to the full 255,000 pound MTOW and for ETOPS 180. They can also fly LAX/SFO/OAK-Hawai'i under ETOPS 138 rules.

[Edited 2006-09-27 22:31:50]
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:10 am

Could the ex-TW 757s make it ATL-SSA?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting Nickofatlanta (Reply 20):
Could the ex-TW 757s make it ATL-SSA?

No 757 can.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:21 am

The ex TW 757s are fully capable of the highest MTOWs. Remember also that mileage on a north-south route results in dfferent flying times than on east-west routes because of the lack of punishing winds on N-S routes. ATLGRU is only a few minutes longer than TXL-EWR and the PW 757s have better range because of lower fuel burn. DL intends to put winglets on the ex TW 757s; not sure about the ex-ATA birds.

This is great news for the NE of Brazil. It is also possible that DL might extend the route on to another city in the NE. BSB would be a good choice.

I commend ANAC for considering these extrabilateral flights. And the US DOT usually has no problem allowing extra flights if another country is willing to offer then. There is the possibility that AA might want something also and if they do and ANAC doesn't offer options to both carriers, the DOT would have to formalize the request and then have a route proceeding.

ANAC is much less threatened by flights from ATL because no Brazilian airline fliies there. Also, ANAC would like to see someone balance AA and its strength.
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:49 am

Daily? I don't think so, DL should try with a 3-4 times per week and add if the market requires more.
As of possible schedule, if they're to fly thrice weekly to start, better a early evening ATL-SSA and a red-eyed SSA-ATL, so the same crew flies in/out the same aircraft. Similar ATL-Europe ATL dep/arr times may work well, but wouldn't allow that many connections @ SSA to ATL early/mid morning.
Aircraft, It'll have to be at least a B767-200. Doubt DL will fly SSA on B757 as a tag on of a ATL-FOR flight.

Well another thing, If that DKR stop doesn't work well on DL JNB flight, IMHO, a SSA (or FOR or REC) stop enroute to JNB could do OK; or IF JNB does very well, DL could even try CPT via Brazil  Wink
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 23):
better a early evening ATL-SSA and a red-eyed SSA-ATL, so the same crew flies in/out the same aircraft.

The flight is too long for same crew operation, they would go over time.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
I think DL could successful pull this off, but maybe not daily. What about 3-5 times a week?

LAXdude, if we consider the size of northeast market, DL just open an office at SSA (probably preparing for the flight), they could look for REC, FOR, NAT, MCZ, BPS, IOS, AJU and JPA, all destinations are closer to any US destination (even JFK) than a flight even thru GIG. Northeast population is closer to 35,000,000 and i believe it's enough to run a daily flight even with 767-300ER.
Business like Ford, the Petro-Chemical Area, Food, Soy, Cocoa, Gourmet Coffee... and not to forget a lot of resorts ... Super Breezes, Iberostar, Renaissance.. Bahia is a booming state growing 7 to 9% every year.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 22):
This is great news for the NE of Brazil. It is also possible that DL might extend the route on to another city in the NE. BSB would be a good choice.

Don't think so, i believe we will see DL running the flight with a single plane (one of the legs will be daily-light).

Another side note, Mr. Didier has been promoted to VP for Latin America due to it's work to improve DL network in our region.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 23):
Aircraft, It'll have to be at least a B767-200.

DL doesn't have 762s anymore.

The S. Africa comment is plausible but DL would only start it if they can pick up enough passengers in Brazil as they let off. Making a stop and dropping off passengers without replacing them means the 2nd leg of the flight cannot work.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Today, according to Brazilian website Panrotas (www.panrotas.com.br) ANAC is willing to approve DL request as SSA is nowadays only 4% of all international flights to Brazil.

Felipe,
can you post the link for the noticia about DL and SSA?

thanks

also, is Salvador the most industrial/business focused city in northern Brazil? Are there other cities that might present other opportunities?

[Edited 2006-09-28 02:43:02]
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:07 am

sorry to keep bumping this up but is there any indication that DL is being offered this route in return for an E190 order?
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 27):
Salvador the most industrial/business focused city in northern Brazil? Are there other cities that might present other opportunities?

There're aslo FOR and REC (both within B757 range from ATL?). IMHO, after SSA, FOR may be the major industrial/business centre in that part of Brazil, aslo a strong tourist centre; but, because the distance to/from other important Northeast Brazilian cities, REC catchment area may be bigger than FOR (plus there's a U.S. consulate in REC). Maybe the Brazilian forum members could tell us which city, between FOR and REC, is the Sao Paulo and which is the Rio de Janeiro.

Sure, If DL is to apply for ATL-FOR-ATL flights, they would get that authorization from ANAC even faster than one application to SSA.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 27):
can you post the link for the noticia about DL and SSA?

Panrotas does not allow direct link. The news headline is "Sao Paulo tem 73% dos voos internacionais".


.... PORTUGUESE ....

"... Segundo Milton Zuanazzi, o possível vôo da Tap para Brasília seria uma extensão de um dos vôos do Nordeste, mas sem direito de pegar passageiros no Brasil para os trechos internos, e sim para o trecho internacional.


Hoje 73% dos vôos internacionais saindo ou chegando ao Brasil estão no Aeroporto Internacional de Guarulhos, em São Paulo. O Rio de Janeiro tem 12%, Porto Alegre 7%, Salvador, 4%, e Fortaleza e Curitiba 3% cada. A Anac está de olho na abertura de vôos para esses últimos destinos e não será surpresa se a Delta realmente ganhar a autorização para Salvador-Atlanta."

... ENGLISH ....

"... Accordingly to Milton Zuanazzi (ANAC CEO), the possible TP flight to BSB will be an extension of one of the northeast flights, without rights in Brazil to transport passengers on domestic leg, only for the international route.

Nowadays 73% from international flights arriving or departing Brazil are on Guarulhos International Airport, in Sao Paulo. Rio de Janeiro has 12%, Porto Alegre 7%, Salvador 4% and Fortaleza and Curitiba 3% each. ANAC is looking for the opening of new flights for these last destinations and will be not a surprise if Delta really won the authorization for Salvador-Atlanta. "

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 27):
also, is Salvador the most industrial/business focused city in northern Brazil? Are there other cities that might present other opportunities?

Yes, it is. Manaus is the top on north and Salvador (with Camacari) the top on northeast. Bahia (state which capital is SSA) keep around 6% of brazilian GDP. SSA keep the most popular carnival in Brazil.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:29 pm

thanks, Felipe.

I saw the headline but did not drill down.

I have been to Salvador (have friends that work for Ford there), Recife, and Fortaleza. There are great opportunities to grow links between NE Brazil and the US.

We'll watch how this plays out.
 
teixeim
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:49 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:26 pm

If DL runs the ATL-SSA flight daily and can't fill it, it could always try a tag flight to BSB or CNF to bolster loads (if authority were granted, of course). Since TR went down I don't think there are flights between Brasilia and the U.S. any longer.
 
sampa737
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 2:20 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:46 pm

Is AA still looking at the northeast. This news about DL and SSA took me by surprise. What other airlines serve international destinations from SSA?

This is the link to the SSA airport.
http://www.aeroportosalvador.hpg.ig.com.br/home.htm

Obviously it is not updated as it still has VASP listed.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24594
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 33):
Is AA still looking at the northeast. This news about DL and SSA took me by surprise. What other airlines serve international destinations from SSA?

Yes, AA is still looking at the Northeast.

From Salvador, you have TAM to Miami, LAN Chile to Santiago de Chile, TAP to Lisbon, and Air Europa to Madrid.
a.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 23):

Well another thing, If that DKR stop doesn't work well on DL JNB flight, IMHO, a SSA (or FOR or REC) stop enroute to JNB could do OK; or IF JNB does very well, DL could even try CPT via Brazil Wink

Agree.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 29):
There're aslo FOR and REC (both within B757 range from ATL?). IMHO, after SSA, FOR may be the major industrial/business centre in that part of Brazil, aslo a strong tourist centre; but, because the distance to/from other important Northeast Brazilian cities, REC catchment area may be bigger than FOR (plus there's a U.S. consulate in REC). Maybe the Brazilian forum members could tell us which city, between FOR and REC, is the Sao Paulo and which is the Rio de Janeiro.

I didn't bother to check the numbers, but I am confident that the state of Pernambuco (REC) has a higher GDP than Ceara (FOR). REC is also the largest airport in the region.

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
panamair
Posts: 3765
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 35):
REC is also the largest airport in the region.

Kind of OT, but I recall Pan Am having flown a MIA-REC service in 1990/91 with an A310 (once or twice weekly); after the DL acquisition in '91, the slimmed-down PA was left with just 747s/727s/A300s (all the 310s went to DL) and had to use the A300 on a MIA-CCS-REC routing.
 
avianca707359b
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:59 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:25 am

How about ATL-BSB-SSA? (3623nm + 586nm / 4170mi + 674mi)

Delta can serve some government/diplomatic traffic to Brasilia (BSB) and tourist/business traffic to Salvador (SSA), as well as better utilize the aircraft. Other connections in BSB can also feed into this flight.

I would think a government/diplomatic client in New York or Washington from LGA or DCA could find a 1-connection flight via ATL more convenient than a JFK-GRU-BSB or IAD-GRU-BSB routing.

Would this be within a 757's capability?

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=a...E=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=
In Memory of HK-1402 "Sucre" & HK-1410 "Bolivar"
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 34):
From Salvador, you have TAM to Miami, LAN Chile to Santiago de Chile, TAP to Lisbon, and Air Europa to Madrid.

Also (mostly weekly)
Iberworld from MAD - Weekly on sundays
BRA from LIS
Condor from FRA
Star from CDG

* Lan is seasonal only during brazilian summer (dec to march with A320)
* Pluna runs some seasonal services also
* Also charters from Poland, UK, Israel, Angola (TAAG extends some flights from GIG), Livingston from MXP.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 34):
Yes, AA is still looking at the Northeast.

Very true Mark, and if DL gets SSA-ATL, probably AA will receive REC-MIA, both ex-bilateral.

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 37):
I would think a government/diplomatic client in New York or Washington from LGA or DCA could find a 1-connection flight via ATL more convenient than a JFK-GRU-BSB or IAD-GRU-BSB routing

There are some comments about UA new flight from IAD to GIG next year. I believe if it's become reality, could be IAD-BSB-GIG 2 or 3 times per week, allowing the government/diplomatic traffic between Washington and Brasilia.
UA is facing problems to connect BSB pax thru GRU nowadays.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 35):
I didn't bother to check the numbers, but I am confident that the state of Pernambuco (REC) has a higher GDP than Ceara (FOR). REC is also the largest airport in the region.

Closer, REC is bigger than FOR, but in terms of economy, FOR seems to be diversified although REC is a growing IT center. Also REC will be helped by the high sugar prices and alcohol demand as well as the new Petrobras oil refinery in partnership with PDVSA. REC keep an American Consulate which is responsible for SSA and FOR. Also Pernambuco (REC) is one of the top 3 producer of fruits and it's the bigger international cargo terminal in Northeast.
FOR is the HQ for Northeast Bank and some important food companies like M.Dias Branco (just preparing their IPO at Sao Paulo Stock Exchange). FOR area is know an important shoes and textiles producer, as big as Rio Grande do Sul (POA) due to the lower labor cost.

In addition, MCZ keep a very important chemical industrial are with some strong american companies and closer to SLZ, Chinese Baosteel is looking for a partnership with Vale do Rio Doce (which is trying to buy Canadian Inco nowadays). Not to forget Northeast is an oil producer (although all bases and HQ are in Rio) with around 200,000 barrels/day and some small business owned by Americans.

In resume, business perspective shows a huge potential for REC and SSA flights to the US, not to forget that thousands of americans can now fly non-stop for beach resorts. Northeast use to receive a good investment and even if it's a brazilian owned business, machines and services could be furnished by American Corporations.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:41 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 38):
There are some comments about UA new flight from IAD to GIG next year

Although IAD-GIG is long overdue, I found it very unfeasible for UA to open BSB. Chances for UA to land in BSB are almost nil for the coming years.

This year again, UA decided to operate twice daily GRU-IAD instead of IAD-GIG nonstop. It shows how GRU commands traffic and controls the greater majority of seats in premium cabin.

Rgs,
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:49 pm

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 37):
Would this be within a 757's capability?

Not a Delta 757
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:10 am

Yeah seriously guys, DL won't send the 757 to Brazil.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:19 am

I wouldn't make such a sweeping statement like that right now. The ex-TW 757s will be equipped with Business Elite seats so it is very possible that it could do a 9 1/2 hr flight which is what ATL-SSA would be. I'm not saying they will use a 757 but DL is changing its playbook faster than any of us can keep up...
 
787kq
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:52 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 23):
Daily? I don't think so, DL should try with a 3-4 times per week and add if the market requires more.

I believe Delta rarely flies to a destination less than daily. Less than daily and you lose your business traffic to other carriers. Yes, I know the premium cabin may not be as strong as GRU, for example, on the SSA route.

Personally, I wish American opens the route.

[Edited 2006-09-30 05:18:06]
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:52 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 42):
The ex-TW 757s will be equipped with Business Elite seats so it is very possible that it could do a 9 1/2 hr flight which is what ATL-SSA would be.

Shoooo-weeee....9 1/2 hours on a 757. Dang. I hope they pass out complimentary xanax.  Smile
 
ArtieFufkin
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:26 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:58 pm

So what about my theory that SSA will look good compared to GRU/GIG when travel originates/ends in Northern Brazil? Are the flights from SSA to Manaus/Recife/Brasilla there to accommodate connections? Who would want to go to GRU from Northern Brazil to back track to the US?
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 44):
Shoooo-weeee....9 1/2 hours on a 757. Dang. I hope they pass out complimentary xanax.

I don't think CO does and people think it is one great experience. CO's longest 757 flights are just minutes shorter than what ATLSSA would be.

The real factor of what a/c will be used will be what the cargo demand out of SSA would be. Given that other Brazilian flights carry large cargo, DL might go with a 767 just for the cargo, much of which is perishable and therefore commands higher yields.

Let's wait and see if DL announces the route first.

I think it is safe to say that DL is not through growing its South American network.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:01 pm

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 43):
I believe Delta rarely flies to a destination less than daily.

By and large that is the case, however, it isn't unheard of for them to start flights with a less than daily frequency (e.g. Kiev, Budapest, some Caribbean destinations, etc.).
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: DL Trying ATL-SSA With Anac (Brazil)

Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 45):
So what about my theory that SSA will look good compared to GRU/GIG when travel originates/ends in Northern Brazil? Are the flights from SSA to Manaus/Recife/Brasilla there to accommodate connections? Who would want to go to GRU from Northern Brazil to back track to the US?

I have no doubt SSA will be a very good route from ATL or MIA not only because of people that nowadays connects thru GIG or GRU but also because there are a dormant demand because of the long journey and because a good number of travellers from Northeast now keep easy access to Europe.

MAO is not the case as Tam keep a daily flight MAO-MIA. REC, FOR, NAT, MCZ, AJU and BPS are by far interesting to be connected thru SSA.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: adamh8297, alggag, ANA787, AsiaTravel, Baidu [Spider], Bluebird191, Boeing778X, cesar666cu, ChrisFallon77, CO777DAL, coolian2, Dash9, FAST Enterprise [Crawler], Google [Bot], jbpdx, laxman, MAH4546, Seabear, UA735WL and 206 guests