hockey55dude
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JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:22 pm

The thing I am wondering about is why did Jetblue choose to do San-Iad instead of doing San-Bos. Going to Dulles United has about 5 flights a day while going Boston AA has 1 flight a day. I'm just wondering why B6 would choose IAD before BOS.

-Hockey55dude
 
san747
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:53 pm

I heard a SAN-BOS flight is in the works... Though I don't know why they chose IAD first... Probably to just to give it some LCC competition...
Scotty doesn't know...
 
jetBlueNYFL
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:02 pm

I was thinking that today as well! I would think maybe it has to do with demand? Although I can't imagine IAD having so much more demand to SAN than BOS.

Maybe it has to do with at the time IAD-SAN started, there was no IAD-JFK shuttle flights on jetBlue. Customers could fly BOS-JFK-SAN on jetBlue, but from IAD, jetBlue's customers could not get to SAN even with a connection. I might be wrong but maybe that coupled with demand has to do with it. I know IAD-SMF was dropped due to low loads - they don't serve BOS-SMF...a similar comparison.
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Coronado990
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:08 pm

Think Government Defence contracts.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
ScottB
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:16 pm

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 2):
Although I can't imagine IAD having so much more demand to SAN than BOS.

Actually, WAS has significantly higher demand to SAN than BOS. WAS-SAN averaged 1,092 daily passengers in the first quarter of this year, while BOS-SAN averaged 603 -- meaning that WAS-SAN traffic was over 80% higher. The WAS-SAN yield of 10.35 cents was also 12% higher than the BOS-SAN yield of 9.21 cents. It's actually unsurprising given that there's a lot of government traffic between Washington and San Diego.
 
san747
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:28 pm

What's surprising to me is that there is no widebody service on SAN-IAD... You'd think at least one of the daily 757s could be changed to a 767... just like SAN-JFK...
Scotty doesn't know...
 
SANFan
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:40 pm

Another important factor entered into B6's announcement (on 1/18/2005) of SAN-IAD service (to begin on 5/03/2005): remember Indi Air (DH)? They announced on 2/07/2005 that they would begin SAN-IAD on 4/14/2005. Coincidence? I think not!

However, there have been rumors here on A.net for over a year that B6 was going to start SAN-BOS "soon", usually mentioned in conjunction with AA dropping the route (in order to start SAN-MIA.) None of that has yet happened.

I'm glad AA has NOT dropped it but I think another cx flying n/s on the route would be successful and probably help generate even more traffic.

I do agree with Scott and Coronado that SAN-WAS is a very popular military/government/business market that used to belong exclusively to UA but I am very glad to see a competitor flying n/s there. I've noticed that B6 is moving their flight to evening from the current morning departure time -- no more plaid-tail RON in SAN any more...

SAN-BOS is a perfect example of "connecting-the-dots" that I would love to see JetBlue doing more of these days. Anyone out there from B6 want to start any more rumors??? ...or educated guesses?

One last thought: I wonder how a SAN-DCA n/s would do if someone applied for that authority. I think SAN is probably the biggest city in the West that doesn't have such service. I have no idea what the situation is these days with the Reagan-exemption (limited slots to only certain cities and all are currently being used?) but I bet someone out there does.

bb
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:45 pm

I definitely think that this will be announced within the next year. JetBlue should be focussing on more connecting the dots in 2007, and this route seems ripe for picking. I'm sure it's high on the list.

As a side note, the SAN-IAD flights perform very well.

JetBluefan1
 
galapagapop
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:04 pm

I thought SAN-BOS was stretching it in the range department..........
 
SANFan
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:07 pm

Hey JBf1, do you know the reason behind the switch I spoke of above (B6 moving the SAN-IAD a.m. departure to a red-eye in early 2007?) I wonder if it's to try to improve loads or to better utilize a/c; I certainly realize that B6 likes red-eyes from the Left Coast -- and for good reason -- but that morning departure was a great attempt to get a good portion of the corporate/business market, in addition to leisure pax. (I would love to see B6 join AA and DL in the SAN-JFK morning market as well.)

One thing is certain: no matter when JetBlue schedules their departure to IAD, there will be a UA right on its tail! Thanks for your insight on this subject.

bb
 
skyyblue
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:53 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 7):
JetBlue should be focussing on more connecting the dots in 2007

I think you are right on with your prediction. Probably about half the amount of new stations we opened in 06 with a bigger focus on connecting the dots. I'm personally hoping for a BOS-MSY announcement soon!
 
MAH4546
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):

However, there have been rumors here on A.net for over a year that B6 was going to start SAN-BOS "soon", usually mentioned in conjunction with AA dropping the route (in order to start SAN-MIA.) None of that has yet happened.

AA hasn't dropped it because, surprisingly, jetBlue hasn't started it yet. If B6 announces BOS-SAN, AA will likely drop it. AA doesn't want much overlap with jetBlue's route map, and they have de-emphazied Boston.
a.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting San747 (Reply 5):
What's surprising to me is that there is no widebody service on SAN-IAD... You'd think at least one of the daily 757s could be changed to a 767... just like SAN-JFK...

United, with a hub at Dulles, is the only airline that could feasibly fly a widebody SAN-IAD. However, if United flew a 767 in to SAN, they'd likely have to sacrifice the use of one of their other gates to make it fit. United's five gates are well used throughout the day and I doubt they could spare one to squeeze in the size of a 767 to the limited gate space. You'd likely see United add a narrow body frequency to SAN-IAD before it ever flies another widebody to SAN.

Quoting Hockey55dude (Thread starter):
United has about 5 flights a day

United has three SAN-IAD flights; one 757 and 2 A320s (in some months another 757 is swapped for an A320). They are usually packed.

[Edited 2006-09-27 18:00:46]
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Coronado990
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
I've noticed that B6 is moving their flight to evening from the current morning departure time -- no more plaid-tail RON in SAN any more...

That's playing with fire. I thought B6 set this sked up to avoid going up against our 11:30p departure curfew here at SAN. A flight arriving at 9:36p and departing at 10:35p is a good way of making sure the IAD flight will always be screwed up if the incoming aircraft from JFK is even slightly late.

If it is, then you've got to ferry a plane down from LGB leaving an unscheduled RON here anyway until the curfew lifts where they can ferry a plane back up to LGB the next morning. Most airlines that schedule red-eyes out of here have planes that arrive around 6-7pm before being utilized as a red-eye. I hear the fine has been raised departing after 11:30p. If departing after curfew happens too many times, they will kindly be asked to leave.

Maybe they can utilize NAS North Island (NZY) like the sports charters do after 11:30pm.  bigthumbsup .
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
B752OS
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 4):
Actually, WAS has significantly higher demand to SAN than BOS. WAS-SAN averaged 1,092 daily passengers in the first quarter of this year, while BOS-SAN averaged 603 -- meaning that WAS-SAN traffic was over 80% higher. The WAS-SAN yield of 10.35 cents was also 12% higher than the BOS-SAN yield of 9.21 cents. It's actually unsurprising given that there's a lot of government traffic between Washington and San Diego.

I am just wondering if you are including both DCA and IAD in that WAS area.

I also believe that considering UA has a hub at IAD, that is one of the reasons they offer 3 daily flights between IAD-SAN.




I am surprised that B6 has not started BOS-MSY. Considering AA never re-started the seasonal route....B6 could add it as a nice fit into their expanding operation out of BOS.

[Edited 2006-09-27 19:04:57]
 
PanAm747
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:31 am

Quote:
What's surprising to me is that there is no widebody service on SAN-IAD... You'd think at least one of the daily 757s could be changed to a 767... just like SAN-JFK..

I agree, but I think the reason has to do more with frequency than capacity. When going for business travellers (as SAN-IAD certainly does), more options is the key.

Quote:
United, with a hub at Dulles, is the only airline that could feasibly fly a widebody SAN-IAD. However, if United flew a 767 in to SAN, they'd likely have to sacrifice the use of one of their other gates to make it fit. United's five gates are well used throughout the day and I doubt they could spare one to squeeze in the size of a 767 to the limited gate space. You'd likely see United add a narrow body frequency to SAN-IAD before it ever flies another widebody to SAN.

 bigthumbsup 
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 9):
Hey JBf1, do you know the reason behind the switch I spoke of above (B6 moving the SAN-IAD a.m. departure to a red-eye in early 2007?) I wonder if it's to try to improve loads or to better utilize a/c; I certainly realize that B6 likes red-eyes from the Left Coast -- and for good reason -- but that morning departure was a great attempt to get a good portion of the corporate/business market, in addition to leisure pax. (I would love to see B6 join AA and DL in the SAN-JFK morning market as well.)

I wasn't aware of the change in schedules. It definitely seems peculiar since the daytime flight does very well. It probably has something to do with aircraft utilization though. (See: BUR-MCO) However, I'm sure JetBlue has done its research and is recognizing that the crowd which regularly flies this route won't mind the change...but that remains to be seen.

JetBluefan1
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 9):
(I would love to see B6 join AA and DL in the SAN-JFK morning market as well.)

They've served JFK-SAN for a long time. What do you mean by your statement.

B6jfk airplane 
 
PanAm747
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:42 am

Quote:
I would love to see B6 join AA and DL in the SAN-JFK morning market as well.



Quote:
They've served JFK-SAN for a long time. What do you mean by your statement?

B6 does not have an early morning SAN-JFK flight. The first leaves at 12:30 PM, the second at 2:30 PM, and the red-eye departs at 9:55 PM.

Only the IAD flight is a RON aircraft.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
N1120A
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting San747 (Reply 5):
What's surprising to me is that there is no widebody service on SAN-IAD... You'd think at least one of the daily 757s could be changed to a 767... just like SAN-JFK...

United's number of domestic configured 763ERs basically allows their Hawai'i service and some intra-hub flying and nothing else.

Quoting Galapagapop (Reply 8):
I thought SAN-BOS was stretching it in the range department..........

It is actually marginally shorter than BOS-LGB.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting San747 (Reply 1):
Probably to just to give it some LCC competition...

Do you actually believe that this might be the actual reason jetBlue decided on IAD-SAN over BOS-SAN???
 
SANFan
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:40 am

I just got on line again. Thanx PA747 for clarifying that for B6jfk.

Yes, I've always wondered why B6 never got into the early morning SAN departure thing. I figured it was a/c utilization and maybe even trying to avoid head-to-head competition w/ AA. Then they added the SAN-IAD flt in that very time period, going head-to-head w/ UA, plus having 3 JFK flights but still none in that prime 6:30-8:30 morning stretch.

Oh well, I do look forward to seeing B6 add a few things to SAN's schedule in 2007, hopefully including BOS and SOMETHING to Florida!

Thanks all for your input.

bb
 
san747
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 20):

Do you actually believe that this might be the actual reason jetBlue decided on IAD-SAN over BOS-SAN???

I was just sort of throwing it out there as a possibility, because as you may notice in that very same reply I made:

Quoting San747 (Reply 1):
I don't know why they chose IAD first...
Scotty doesn't know...
 
N1120A
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 14):
Considering AA never re-started the seasonal route....

The talk is that AA's MSY-BOS will be returning and should be year-round this time.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
B752OS
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:08 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
The talk is that AA's MSY-BOS will be returning and should be year-round this time.

That would be nice for both cities. Aside from PDX, SMF, AUS, New Orleans is a missing link from Boston.



It has been mentioned in these threads for almost 2 years that AA is going to cancel the BOS-SAN flight in favor of MIA-SAN but it has not happened. The Boston-California market is one of the biggest on the east coast, I'd imagine top 3 or 4 so if that were to happen....even though it has yet to happen, I think B6 would jump on it right away.
 
SANFan
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:19 am

To further my thinking about SAN-BOS, I realize it is NOT a huge market (like SAN to either JFK or WAS) but it intrigues me that the general feeling here on A.net seems to be that B6 is WAITING for AA to drop the route before they (B6) will take it on. I never got the feeling that JetBlue was afraid of a little head-to-head with the big boys, i.e., ATL, ORD (??!), and of course I would include JFK and IAD. After all, just in the SAN market, they are taking on AA (to JFK) and UA (to IAD) already so I don't see the hesitation in the BOS market. I already acknowledged that it's got smaller numbers but 2 n/s flights a day doesn't seem like overkill, does it?

I keep wondering if JetBlue might balance their current 3 Key Cities in the Northeast (IAD, JFK, BOS) with 3 Key Cities on the (South) West Coast (OAK, LGB, plus SAN) -- I think that has a nice symmetry to it. If they would pull back the ideas they keep throwing at BUR, in addition to having to deal with the short runway and small, uninspired, and apparently un-expandable terminal facilities there, and instead concentrate on promoting SAN to Key status, I think they would do very well.

Get a second gate (and a third?) at Lindbergh, while it's still possible (?), start service to BOS, MCO and/or FLL, RDU, and maybe a 2nd IAD flight, and be ready when the 190s appear on the West Coast for all kinds of fun! I could see B6 competing in all kinds of short-to-medium haul markets that have absolutely no competition (or service at all) right now: TUS, SLC, AUS, HOU, MSY, OAK, SMF, PDX, SEA, and even LGB... (Sorry WN and AS, but you've had too much all to yourselves for too long now!)

And of course if and when additional cities are added by B6 (STL, MCI, CHI, ??) I'm sure SAN would gladly support n/s in those markets as well.

Just a thought, but I've had it for a long time and I think it has a lot of merit.

bb
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 24):
Aside from PDX, SMF, AUS, New Orleans is a missing link from Boston.

AUS has 1x on B6.

JetBluefan1
 
B752OS
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 25):
I already acknowledged that it's got smaller numbers but 2 n/s flights a day doesn't seem like overkill, does it?

Well the BOS-SEA market is around the same size as BOS-SAN and in that market you have 2 airlines offering daily non-stop flights, AS and B6. AS also operates 2 daily frequencies for season service, I believe around 4-5 months, I could be wrong about that timef.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 26):
AUS has 1x on B6.

You are right, I completely forgot about that service.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 25):
Get a second gate (and a third?) at Lindbergh, while it's still possible (?),

Get in line. Gates are hard to come by in San Diego when most airlines want them.
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SANFan
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:00 am

Hey BC, yeah, 3 or 4 years for the major expansion (~10 more gates), right? That's why I'm encouraging JetBlue to start NOW. (Maybe you know better than I but there appears to be lots of nebulous gate usage out at the end of T2 East -- out around gates 28,30,32. Are those overflow, unassigned, or what? I know they're not used very much and that they are not ideal gates; last time I was out there, years ago, there were really no lounges or room or anything right at the actual gate.)

Anyway, I thought if a CURRENT tenant/carrier actually went to SAN Ops now and said they needed another gate or 2, there still might be enough loose ends to crunch some space and come up with something. Certainly now would be better than after PR and Virgin A and who-knows-who-else actually start serving Lindbergh... (I know -- PR could/would use gates 20/21.)

bb
 
Bicoastal
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 29):
Maybe you know better than I but there appears to be lots of nebulous gate usage out at the end of T2 East -- out around gates 28,30,32

Nebulous? Uh, try talking to American Airlines about nebulous. AA has those gates well utilized and I doubt they'll let Jet Blue borrow them.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 29):
last time I was out there, years ago

Time for a visit so you'll know of which you post!
 Big grin
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MAH4546
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
The talk is that AA's MSY-BOS will be returning and should be year-round this time.

As far as I have heard, it's not coming back for now. I wouldn't rule it out, but I think you will see B6 before AA on the route.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 24):
It has been mentioned in these threads for almost 2 years that AA is going to cancel the BOS-SAN flight in favor of MIA-SAN but it has not happened. The Boston-California market is one of the biggest on the east coast, I'd imagine top 3 or 4 so if that were to happen....even though it has yet to happen, I think B6 would jump on it right away.

AA hasn't dropped BOS-SAN because jetBlue hasn't started it. As long as they have a monopoly in a key market, they'll keep it going. If/when jetBlue enters the market, AA will certainly re-evulate staying in the market. I think it is highly unlikely giving the increasingly less important role Boston is playing in AA's network.
a.
 
hockey55dude
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 12):
United has three SAN-IAD flights; one 757 and 2 A320s (in some months another 757 is swapped for an A320). They are usually packed.

Thanks i wasn't sure how many flights they had.  Smile
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:07 pm

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 3):
Think Government Defence contracts.

Yup.

Quoting Hockey55dude (Thread starter):
The thing I am wondering about is why did Jetblue choose to do San-Iad instead of doing San-Bos. Going to Dulles United has about 5 flights a day while going Boston AA has 1 flight a day. I'm just wondering why B6 would choose IAD before BOS.

Lack of gate space. This is also why operations are basically flat at Lindbergh right now.

Quoting San747 (Reply 5):
What's surprising to me is that there is no widebody service on SAN-IAD... You'd think at least one of the daily 757s could be changed to a 767... just like SAN-JFK...

Gate size. SAN needs more widebody gates, particularly for UA.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: JetBlue San-Iad, Why Not San-Bos?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:31 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
The talk is that AA's MSY-BOS will be returning and should be year-round this time.

Rumor here in MSY is that it will be back in December along with (possibly) the 2nd LGA nonstop. That comes from an AA shift manager here, so take it for what it's worth.