keesje
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Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:54 pm

Interview in Flight / ATI

Lufthansa is set to finalise its long-haul fleet replacement strategy in the next four to five months, and is maintaining confidence in the Airbus A380 despite continuing delays to the programme.

Speaking to ATI in Beijing, as the carrier celebrated 80 years serving the Chinese capital, Lufthansa chief executive Wolfgang Mayrhuber said the A380 was still in contention.

“The decision for the long-range fleet replacement structure is on its way – it could be within four to five months,” he says.

Lufthansa is expecting to receive its first A380 in the summer of 2008 – although Mayrhuber points out that “summer is a long time”.

But he brushes off concerns about the latest delays to the A380 programme, describing them as “teething problems” and pointing out that other major aircraft programmes have also previously suffered.

“We have to allow for such issues,” he says. “Obviously it is better if there are no delays but we have to manage it.”

He insists that the setbacks to the programme will not have any impact on Lufthansa’s evaluation of whether to buy more of the type, and is not ruling out a supplemental A380 order.

“We buy aircraft on a long-term basis,” says Mayrhuber. “We’ve seen teething problems on the McDonnell Douglas DC-10, Airbus A340 and Boeing 747-100, -200 and -400 programmes. That’s not something that would impact on long-term decisions.”

Boeing’s 747-8 is also still under examination, he says: “We are looking at the 747-8 as an option that would fit in between the A380 and smaller aircraft – the question of whether we do it is open.”

The 747-8 would form part of an “integral solution”, he says: “We have 30 747-400s. When we ordered our A380s we said that some of the 747s would be replaced with A380s, and some would be replaced with A340-600s and 777s.

“Now since the 747-8 is available we must make a decision on how this extra type of aircraft would fit into the structure.”

Lufthansa is continuing to explore the Boeing 787 and newly-relaunched Airbus A350 for its mid-size requirements. Mayrhuber says that this selection is the “next decision to be made”. The airline agreed last week to acquire up to 65 Airbus aircraft to modernise its short- and medium-haul fleet.
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TriStar500
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:14 pm

So not much news.

BTW - it is more like 65 years of service, because there wasn't an LH service to Beijing between ca. 1940 and the mid 50's.
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RE: Lufthansa�s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:18 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
some of the 747s would be replaced with A380s, and some would be replaced with A340-600s and 777s

...and 777s???
 
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:21 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 2):
...and 777s???

I was wondering about the "and" as well....
 
TriStar500
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:30 pm

Most likely a case of bad journalism.
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keesje
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:32 pm

It has been suggested further A380s were out of the question. That appears to be not true.

The 787 or A350 decision is the next order coming from LH.

Some of the 747s will be replaced by A346 or 773. The "and" probably refers to having an option 1 and an option 2.

If 747-8 are ordered bigger variants of the A350/787 seem more likely then additional a346s or 777´s.

If LH goes for A350/787s as they say..
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EDDB
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RE: Lufthansa�s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:33 pm

Really nothing new there...
Interesting though that he still thinking about A380 follow on orders, something which has been ruled out in other threads after last weeks delay anouncement!
Well then, another 4-5 months of waiting...
 
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:04 pm

That does not sound like earlier statements about LH and the B748, doesn´t it? For a lot of people the new 747 was a given for LH (including me), but that statement is different.

It sounds more like a possible B777-300ER order in my view.

What do you think?

Johnny  Smile
 
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:13 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 7):
That does not sound like earlier statements about LH and the B748, doesn´t it? For a lot of people the new 747 was a given for LH (including me), but that statement is different.

It sounds more like a possible B777-300ER order in my view.

Well... given the choice between a B777 and a B747, I certainly do hope they go for the B747...

And that's not only because I'd expect the introduction of the B748 into the fleet to be much easier than that of the B773ER - one is a new version of a plane already operated, the other is a completely new type...

... and then, of course, there's my personal preference: give me an alternative to a B777, and I'll take it... after several flights on them, I still haven't figured out what a.netters like so much about that plane...  confused 
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/

Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:50 pm

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 1):
BTW - it is more like 65 years of service, because there wasn't an LH service to Beijing between ca. 1940 and the mid 50's.

No it is 80 years since the first route proving flights took place and that is exactly what is celebrated these days. LH started service to PEK on April 7, 1980.
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columba
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:04 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
It has been suggested further A380s were out of the question. That appears to be not true.
The 787 or A350 decision is the next order coming from LH

Well it is strange because it is different from what has been said last week.
Last week fleet planer Nico Buchholz said something like that they are not seeking to buy additional A380s also it was said the decision on the 787/A350 has to be postponed to look at the revised Airbus proposal and that with a decion of a 747 replacement can be expected in December.

[Edited 2006-09-27 13:06:06]
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
It has been suggested further A380s were out of the question. That appears to be not true.

The 787 or A350 decision is the next order coming from LH.

Some of the 747s will be replaced by A346 or 773. The "and" probably refers to having an option 1 and an option 2.

If 747-8 are ordered bigger variants of the A350/787 seem more likely then additional a346s or 777´s.

No, I think LH is just playing Airbus against Boeing, as they mentioned POSSIBLY additional A-380-800s, A-350-800/-900, and A-340-600s, as well as POSSIBLY ordering the B-777-300ER, B-787-800/-900/-1000 as well as the B-747-800I. I still believe if they order the B-747-800Fs, they will also buy 15-20 B-747-800Is.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 7):
That does not sound like earlier statements about LH and the B748, doesn´t it? For a lot of people the new 747 was a given for LH (including me), but that statement is different.

I still think the new B-747 models are still very possible for LH, they are just trying to get the best price on what ever airplanes they eventually order. That is why Mayrhuber mentioned all 6 these airplanes types, knowing that at the very most, only 3 of the 6 types would be ordered.
 
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:08 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
No, I think LH is just playing Airbus against Boeing, as they mentioned POSSIBLY additional A-380-800s, A-350-800/-900, and A-340-600s, as well as POSSIBLY ordering the B-777-300ER, B-787-800/-900/-1000 as well as the B-747-800I. I still believe if they order the B-747-800Fs, they will also buy 15-20 B-747-800Is.

 checkmark 

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
I still think the new B-747 models are still very possible for LH, they are just trying to get the best price on what ever airplanes they eventually order. That is why Mayrhuber mentioned all 6 these airplanes types, knowing that at the very most, only 3 of the 6 types would be ordered.

 checkmark 
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:29 pm

"That is why Mayrhuber mentioned all 6 these airplanes types, knowing that at the very most, only 3 of the 6 types would be ordered."

Agree!!!
 
zvezda
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RE: Lufthansa�s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:01 pm

Any sort of public announcement that either type would not be considered would cripple LH's negotiating position. Mayrhuber is all but required to say what he said if he speaks up on the subject, therefore little can be read into his comments. They amount to "We're negotiating."
 
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
It has been suggested further A380s were out of the question. That appears to be not true.

 checkmark  as Columba noted

Quoting Columba (Reply 10):
Well it is strange because it is different from what has been said last week.
Last week fleet planer Nico Buchholz said something like that they are not seeking to buy additional A380s

Here is what was said by Mr Buchholz on September 21;

The airline will stick with an order for 15 Airbus A380s, whose delivery has been delayed, without seeking to buy any more, he said......``The current order covers us well'' in absorbing the setback, and Lufthansa won't reduce or cancel its A380 contract, Buchholz said.

Source for comment carried in this A.net thread

That statement appeared to rule out conversion of some of their A380 options which they had spoken of doing so in the past on more than one occassion. In my opinion the report carried at the start of this thread seems to indicate they are still planning on acquiring more. Their decision is due well after Mr Streiffs Audit of the program will be released and they should also have more clarity on the revised delivery schedule available for the model and be able to make a decision in the timeframe mentioned. Some good news which I was not expecting to hear.

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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:37 pm

I'm guessing the 773ERs chances hinge pretty much on how LH feels load-factors between 2010 and 2020 are going to fall on routes currently serviced with 744s. The 773ER is slightly larger then the A346 and about 10% larger then the A350-1000. With additional A346s on the way, however, I tend to think the 773ER won't be purchased because, at best, it would have around a ten-year lifespan with LH (2010-2020) before Y3 became an option, though LH could keep them going beyond 2020 and phase them out over time with Y3s.

Of course, the same issue applies to the 748, however if LH really needs a plane with capacity between the A346/A3510/773ER and A380, then the 748I is their only choice.
 
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/

Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
But he brushes off concerns about the latest delays to the A380 programme, describing them as “teething problems” and pointing out that other major aircraft programmes have also previously suffered.

“We have to allow for such issues,” he says. “Obviously it is better if there are no delays but we have to manage it.”

A very Forgeardian form of pedestrian rationalization of the most poorly managed "industrialization" of a marquee aircraft program in the history of civil aviation. Not only is such a rationale inaccurate on many levels historically, it apparently failed to pass muster with Mr. Forgeard's overseers at EADS. I'm surprised that an executive with Mr. Mayrhuber's reputation would essentially repeat Mr. Forgeard's feeble excuses verbatim. They're on the same intellectual level as Bobby Knight's famous quip: "if rape is inevitable, relax and let it happen."

Hopefully, the level and scope of pre-certification "teething problems" don't translate into equally daunting challenges for operators once EIS has commenced.
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:14 pm

The reference to 'and 777s' caught my eye too.

One of the more memorable newsletter comments of the 'Demon King', aka Richard Aboulafia, back in January 2004, was, "Anyone without a 777 is either not a global player, or Lufthansa."

http://www.richardaboulafia.com/shownote.asp?id=155

[Edited 2006-09-27 16:14:54]
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RE: Lufthansa�s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
describing them as �teething problems�

Sorry guys and gals, much as I love flying in Airbus aircraft, I just cannot resist this analogy.

More like "wisdom teething problems" 3rd molars/wisdom teeth don't erupt until the infant is about 12-15 years old. They tend to hurt like hell and cause all sorts of problems until they are removed. Invariably, they get pulled out because they don't perform as the other teeth, at significant expense to the owner.

Now when is that beast supposed to fly?
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:29 pm

Nice one, GeorgiaAME.

I think that wisdom teeth are also considered by dentists to be 'unnecessary' as they are too far back and too late-developing to be of much use at all in chewing things?
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zvezda
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 19):
Now when is that beast supposed to fly?

The WhaleJet is already flying. When will it enter service? It was originally scheduled for April 2006 (following scheduled delivery to SQ in March 2006). Now no one on the planet really seems to know. Hopefully by the end of 2007.
 
keesje
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting Mayrhuber (Thread starter):
We’ve seen teething problems on the McDonnell Douglas DC-10, Airbus A340 and Boeing 747-100, -200 and -400 programmes.

What teething problems did the 747's have?
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DAYflyer
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:10 am

Again, from the statements made by LH, I don't see a 747 order coming forward for them. I see 2 versions of the A-350XWB, a 777 order, and the A-380.
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Lemurs
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 22):
What teething problems did the 747's have?

Engines on the -100...apparently avionics on the -400. The problem is, those really WERE just teething problems. It's like the little complaints operators have had with the A346. It's not something that's insurmountable, and only aviation nuts would hear/care. The A380 delays are into a whole new category of their own which he doesn't want to acknowledge. It's a teething problem problem when you get it into your fleet and need to work out the kinks...when the entire program slips by YEARS, it's way beyond a teething problem. I'd be worried if my 3 year old were still having teething problems.
 Wink
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:15 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 24):
The A380 delays are into a whole new category of their own which he doesn't want to acknowledge.

Or it may be just that LH has made a decision to employ the A380, even after reviewing four iterations of the 747 and with a fifth (748I) now available for sale. While LH may or may not buy the 748I, they will not cancel their A380 order. They have to have the bird for FRA and since they're fortunate to control a great number, if not the plurality, of slots at FRA, they can shuffle around their schedule until the A380 is ready for delivery.
 
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:19 am

Told you so.Why cant it happen at LH also..Here come the early A340 replacement 777s!
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WINGS
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):
The reference to 'and 777s' caught my eye too.

One of the more memorable newsletter comments of the 'Demon King', aka Richard Aboulafia, back in January 2004, was, "Anyone without a 777 is either not a global player, or Lufthansa."

http://www.richardaboulafia.com/show...d=155

Or Qantas.

Regards,
Wings
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Stitch
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting Scaledesigns (Reply 26):
Told you so.Why cant it happen at LH also..Here come the early A340 replacement 777s!

If LH decides to cancel their remaining A346 orders (and put those funds towards additional A380s), then I could see LH buying the 773ER. Otherwise...
 
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
Or it may be just that LH has made a decision to employ the A380, even after reviewing four iterations of the 747 and with a fifth (748I) now available for sale. While LH may or may not buy the 748I, they will not cancel their A380 order. They have to have the bird for FRA and since they're fortunate to control a great number, if not the plurality, of slots at FRA, they can shuffle around their schedule until the A380 is ready for delivery.

Absolutely. I have no doubt that the airplane will make them money and be in their fleet for a long time...and almost certainly will generate follow-up order(s). That doesn't change the fact that he's intentionally understating the problem in a very eye-popping way. It's that kind of PR spin that makes me as an investor uncomfortable. (I don't have any interest in LH...but that's the kind of stuff I would look at and go: "Why polish someone else's grand problem like that? What would you hide about your OWN problems with that kind of attitude?")
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 29):
Absolutely. I have no doubt that the airplane will make them money and be in their fleet for a long time...and almost certainly will generate follow-up order(s). That doesn't change the fact that he's intentionally understating the problem in a very eye-popping way. It's that kind of PR spin that makes me as an investor uncomfortable.

As an investor, I'd be more uncomfortable if he was bad-mouthing the plane in particular and Airbus in general. Yes the plane is late. Yes the lack of it's presence is affecting LH's fleet planning. However, it is likely LH will operate the A380 at FRA before SQ does, and it is likely only LH and SQ will operate the plane at FRA in the near-term.

So it's not like the plane is never coming and it's not like other carriers are flying scores of A380s into and out of FRA every day, drawing away large numbers of premium cabin/premium fare passengers. Therefore, I expect the impact of the A380's delays on LH's financials are not going to be overly severe.
 
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:39 am

I dunno... Cargo's almost certain to order the 777F/747-8F (Their CEO all but said so, in an interview), so the possibility of a 747-8i order is excellent, it seems to me. If they did go for the 777-300ER, that would be a pleasant surprise.
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scaledesigns
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:40 am

The only question I have is will they order 772 or 773 aircraft or both.
The early A340s will go..I suspect the A340-600s will go sooner than later also(next 5 years).One a.net mistake seems to be jumping into the future.We know LH will order the A350,but LH will most likely not get any of them until
atleast 10 years from now.Until then the 777 will have to do  Wink
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keesje
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:46 am

Most of the times these orders are more rational & down to earth then expected. Lets think about a no non sense approach..

 Wink

- 744 are doing fine: lets give them another 10-15 year: Radical cabin upgrade to make them look fresh & A380 compatibly. LHT mod program to improve reliability, CF6-80C2 improvement program with LHT/GE.

- A346 lets configure them for high density / leisure destinations, no F, limited business & 9 abreast backpacker class seats in the backzones -> 420 seats.. for caribien, canada, africa.. Re-negotiate leasing terms, engine deal..

- A300/310. Well what to do.. A321 only fix part of the requirements.. A limited number of high density 330s? .. Let LHT give the A300/10 fleet it serious modification to extend it 10 years?

- A380. hands tight now. Only reserve additional slots if they threaten to fill up >2014, make a decision on the -900s later.

- 773ER, good machine but not needed now. Let's wait & see a few years to see what's available, 787-10, A350-1000..

- MD11, get a good price from Fedex/UPS and replace by 747-8Fs or 772F

- 747-8i we can have them for free by now if we launch the program.. dunno  Wink

- Let the A350/787 first proof themselves. We are not in a hurry, the A330s are doing fine..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
scaledesigns
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:51 am

As for the 787-10,I dont think it has a chance if LH buys the 777 and A350.
I could be wrong.I think they will order 787s,mainly as A300 replacements.

They also seem to be ready to buy some 748s...We will see.
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 30):
As an investor, I'd be more uncomfortable if he was bad-mouthing the plane in particular and Airbus in general. Yes the plane is late. Yes the lack of it's presence is affecting LH's fleet planning. However, it is likely LH will operate the A380 at FRA before SQ does, and it is likely only LH and SQ will operate the plane at FRA in the near-term.

I agree with that as well, too harsh serves no purpose either, given the almost certain financial success of the airplane for its operators. I guess I want to hear something along the lines of: "This is how it affects our fleet plan, this is what we plan to do to cope with the changes. We're keeping on top of the situation, and we continue to look at the best possible options for our fleet plan going into the future..." Essentially what Clarke said when the latest delay was announced. No dramatics, but not a vote of confidence at the same time.

You do have an excellent point that he can be more magnanimous than the other early adopters though. Delays will hurt LH's plans far less than SQ, QF, and EK, who have very agressive plans for their A380s. That probably is the biggest reason his statement is so mild.
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting Scaledesigns (Reply 32):
The only question I have is will they order 772 or 773 aircraft or both.

772ERs are definitely out. I don't see LH needing the 772LRs range or payload (over set ranges) capabilities.

Quote:
The early A340s will go..I suspect the A340-600s will go sooner than later also (next 5 years).

We know the A343s will be replaced either by 787s or A350s, and it is likely the A330s will also be replaced by these planes, but over a longer period. As LH still has seven A346s on order. While I don't know the delivery schedule, even if all seven arrived before the end of the year, why would LH take them just to shuffle them off a few years later?

Quote:
One a.net mistake seems to be jumping into the future. We know LH will order the A350, but LH will most likely not get any of them until at least 10 years from now. Until then the 777 will have to do.

If LH "will order" the A350, then why buy the 777? Just keep adding A330s and A346s as interim lift and as new A350s arrive in the mid-2010s, the first models will replace the A343s. Then you can start phasing out the oldest A333s and A346s with additional A350s, while using the latest models to continue to provide lift during this time.
 
scaledesigns
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:12 am

RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:18 am

Well the 777F is based on the 772LR with freighter floors.
We will all have to wait and see.Nobody thought AC would order 777s
either.
F1 Tommy
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 28):
If LH decides to cancel their remaining A346 orders (and put those funds towards additional A380s), then I could see LH buying the 773ER. Otherwise...

why would they do that? also, would likely be too late as the first A346 of the latest order of 7 A346s has recently been delivered (or will be in the coming days).

Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
As LH still has seven A346s on order. While I don't know the delivery schedule, even if all seven arrived before the end of the year, why would LH take them just to shuffle them off a few years later?

they will all arrive until Spring 2007.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
brendows
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting PM (Reply 2):
...and 777s???

The 77W was mentioned as a candidate earlier this summer in the press, I just can't remember where I read it  banghead 
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 33):
744 are doing fine: lets give them another 10-15 year: Radical cabin upgrade to make them look fresh & A380 compatibly. LHT mod program to improve reliability, CF6-80C2 improvement program with LHT/GE.

MAYBE PTVs and new seats in Y, but what else can be done ? The new business class is already being installed. How do you want to make the 744 A380 compatible ? Cabin wise ?
What LHT mod program ? What can you do ? They already do the best to increase reliability. Engine improvement: Just for LH or what ? Not gonna happen. Also, there is a dilemma: If you change much, performance will improve more, but it also costs much more. The opposite is also true.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 33):
- A346 lets configure them for high density / leisure destinations, no F, limited business & 9 abreast backpacker class seats in the backzones -> 420 seats.. for caribien, canada, africa.. Re-negotiate leasing terms, engine deal..

WTF is in your mind ? Some points: They don't fly to destinations which are purely leisure. Why should they ? They'd only lose revenue and piss the customers. Then, the aircraft are owned, not leased. And what engine deal are you talking about ?
And most importantly, what would replace them ?

Quoting Keesje (Reply 33):
- A300/310. Well what to do.. A321 only fix part of the requirements.. A limited number of high density 330s? .. Let LHT give the A300/10 fleet it serious modification to extend it 10 years?

There are no more A310s in their fleet. Considering the age of the A300, a serious upgrade doesn't make sense. And anyway, which widebody, aside from the 787-3, would replace them in 10 years ?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 30):
However, it is likely LH will operate the A380 at FRA before SQ does, and it is likely only LH and SQ will operate the plane at FRA in the near-term.

I frequently fly between FRA and SIN, usually on SQ but occasionally on LH. I find it very unlikely that SQ will operate a WhaleJet to FRA in part because it would not fit with the FRA-JFK tag which goes out with low loads.

Quoting Scaledesigns (Reply 32):
We know LH will order the A350,but LH will most likely not get any of them until
atleast 10 years from now.

We don't know that LH will order the A350 and there is no reason to believe it would be delivered four years late. Even the WhaleJet is not four years late -- and is unlikely ever to be.
 
Shenzhen
Posts: 1664
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:11 pm

RE: Lufthansa�s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:44 am

LH have been around a long time, and are old school, which don't go out of their way to make headlines by putting down one or both of their suppliers.

If LH are unhappy, they have the appropriate email addresses of both those at Boeing and Airbus, and if a letter is sent from a decision maker at LH, the issue will be addressed. Hopefully, the reply will make him or her less unhappy, but not always.

Cheers
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 24):
apparently avionics on the -400.

Add to that several issues with the emergency exits up stairs and fuselage strengths on the hump...
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
EDDB
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:46 am

RE: Lufthansa�s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 33):
- A346 lets configure them for high density / leisure destinations, no F, limited business & 9 abreast backpacker class seats in the backzones -> 420 seats.. for caribien, canada, africa.. Re-negotiate leasing terms, engine deal..

I usually like your conclusions, but this strategy would ruin LH since most of their profits derive from first and business class customers and their strategy with offering first class terminals in FRA and MUC, netjets flights to FRA and MUC and their soon to come new first class seats is making them as profitable as they are right now!

Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
Quoting Scaledesigns (Reply 32):
The only question I have is will they order 772 or 773 aircraft or both.

772ERs are definitely out. I don't see LH needing the 772LRs range or payload (over set ranges) capabilities.

Quote:
The early A340s will go..I suspect the A340-600s will go sooner than later also (next 5 years).

We know the A343s will be replaced either by 787s or A350s, and it is likely the A330s will also be replaced by these planes, but over a longer period. As LH still has seven A346s on order. While I don't know the delivery schedule, even if all seven arrived before the end of the year, why would LH take them just to shuffle them off a few years later?

Quote:
One a.net mistake seems to be jumping into the future. We know LH will order the A350, but LH will most likely not get any of them until at least 10 years from now. Until then the 777 will have to do.

If LH "will order" the A350, then why buy the 777? Just keep adding A330s and A346s as interim lift and as new A350s arrive in the mid-2010s, the first models will replace the A343s. Then you can start phasing out the oldest A333s and A346s with additional A350s, while using the latest models to continue to provide lift during this time.

Wow... Are you sure the flag behind your nick is correct? This is maybe the most balanced and impartial conclusion I read for a long time when talking about an AvsB order campaign!

I have nothing to add... You hit it!
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
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RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 22):
What teething problems did the 747's have?

I once read that LH (one of the launching customers) only could bring the 744 about two years later into service than originally planed. Therefore I don't understand all the noise about the delays of the A 380. Of course it is annoying for the airlines, but many (or most) successful aircrafts were delayed. This is not new at all with the 380.
 
scaledesigns
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:12 am

RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:57 am

Well if they dont it will be the first major non military Airbus type LH didnt order!

Since the A350 design has not even really started yet it will take them
atleast as long to develop as the A380 from Launch.
The A380 designs had been worked on before the launch began .They dont
have that luxury this time around.The A350 is a totally new a/c
wich will be designed from scratch starting now.Plus the fact
that it will be delayed due to politics and design costs,I bet LH wont start getting them until around 2016!
F1 Tommy
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13069
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Scaledesigns (Reply 46):
Well if they dont it will be the first major non military Airbus type LH didnt order!

There is one model LH never ordered: the A318.  Wink
 
aerosol
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 10:31 pm

RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/A350

Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting Scaledesigns (Reply 46):
Well if they dont it will be the first major non military Airbus type LH didnt order!

No a318 / no A345
 
Shenzhen
Posts: 1664
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:11 pm

RE: Lufthansa´s Mayrhuber On A380, 747-8 And B787/

Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 45):
I once read that LH (one of the launching customers) only could bring the 744 about two years later into service than originally planed. Therefore I don't understand all the noise about the delays of the A 380. Of course it is annoying for the airlines, but many (or most) successful aircrafts were delayed. This is not new at all with the 380.

One shouldn't always believe everything they read. LH were one of the first airlines to operate the 747-400 airplanes. They may have been the first to operate GE powered 747-400s.

However, it probably took two years to fix all the teething problems, but they certainly weren't parked during this time frame.

Cheers