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Braybuddy
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Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:54 pm

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...hp3?ca=9&si=1694841&issue_id=14689

You need to be a member to access the story, and I can't include it for copyright reasons, but here is an excerpt:

Airline criticised over lack of 'basic' equipment for mid-air lifesaving bid

A NURSE who had to give unprotected mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to a dying passenger on a Ryanair plane has hit out at the lack of medical equipment.

Kate Douglas, who was returning from a holiday in Venice, rushed to the aid of a 24-year-old au pair who had collapsed at the rear of the plane.

But she said the Ryanair staff were unable to provide her with any latex gloves or a resuscitation mask.

"I was basically giving that girl who I didn't know, mouth-to-mouth CPR, exchanging fluids. I wasn't not going to do it, but it's not a nice position to be placed in," she said.

The medical emergency arose on the Ryanair flight from Treviso in Italy to Dublin last Friday. The captain of the plane appealed for any medical personnel to come forward and Mrs Douglas, another Irish nurse and an Italian doctor all responded.

Mrs Douglas, from Youghal in Cork, said she could not believe the plane did not have basic medical equipment, such as an airway device or an ambu-bag which is used to force air into the lungs of people with breathing problems.

[Edited 2006-09-28 10:55:05]
 
kappel
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:57 pm

And more good publicity for FR. Not that it makes any difference, pax numbers continue to grow. But I will most certainly never fly them, for a variety of reasons. Like not flying to the city I want to go to.
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UA777300ER
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:59 pm

Is this just a problem with Ryanair not having them, or is it just not required to have them? Do other airlines have them?

Thanks,
Tom
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:59 pm

She had a brain haemorrage - its not as if they could have done anything anyway. Another oppo for a dig at FR.

Normally they deserve it but this sensationalist nonsense serves nobody. They insinuate that FR were indirectly responsible because they didnt have enough FA gear.

Point is - they carried all they needed to under regs, so wheres the problem. Its not FR that need to change, its the H&S regs.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
kappel
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:03 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
Normally they deserve it but this sensationalist nonsense serves nobody. They insinuate that FR were indirectly responsible because they didnt have enough FA gear.

True, the media is always over-sensasionalist and they love to rip at FR. But I don't mind, I don't like 'em either. Look I respect what MOL has achieved, certainly worthy of a commendation. Taking a small insignificant airline and turning it into one of Europe's biggest. But I will always be very happy to pay more to avoid them.
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:18 pm

Quoting UA777300ER (Reply 2):
Do other airlines have them?

Apparently, under European aviation regulations, all planes on short-haul flights must have first-aid kits containing a list of 24 items, including one resuscitation mask and two pairs of latex gloves. There is no requirement to have medical equipment such as airway devices or ambu-bags.

MOL was on radio stating that there was a resuscitation mask in the kit, which was removed afterwards. Both nurses are adamant that there was no resuscitation mask on board, and the doctor backs them up on this.

A quote from one of the nurses:
"They didn't have any type of airway equipment although they did provide us with an oxygen bag and an oxygen cylinder. The staff did their best but they didn't seem to have much competence in first aid or CPR - one air hostess said she was only trained to take a pulse."

While the equiment wouldn't have been able to save the woman, the incident does raise serious questions.
 
cwldude
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:31 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5):
While the equiment wouldn't have been able to save the woman, the incident does raise serious questions.

Exactly what I was thinking, if it was just a breathing problem, and all that was needed was CPR, that nurse could have saved her with the appropriate kit, however, she would have been well within her right to say she wasn't going to do it because FR didnt have on to provide, then the woman would have died.

Whilst Ryanair are in no way responsible for this horrible incident, it once again proves their lack of safety! and how the hell can MOL say there was a kit there when he wasn't even on-board? I doubt the nurses and doctor would lie about something like this, knowing full well it's probably going to get FR into serious trouble, and I do genuinely hope they get an ass kicking for this, because it's more than just your average FR problem!
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ADXMatt
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:36 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
Point is - they carried all they needed to under regs, so wheres the problem. Its not FR that need to change, its the H&S regs.

I disagree.... While the regs may need to change, remember that these are the minimum.

While I am not singling FR out in any means, I'm sure other airlines only carry the minimum.

With the amount of people flying these days why are they putting their employees at risk to disease by not having "basic" supplies.

Sometimes the media can bring the issue to the surface to get the rules changed or for companies to "do the right thing".
 
Toulouse
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:38 pm

Quoting Cwldude (Reply 6):
Whilst Ryanair are in no way responsible for this horrible incident, it once again proves their lack of safety! and how the hell can MOL say there was a kit there when he wasn't even on-board? I



Quoting Cwldude (Reply 6):
and I do genuinely hope they get an ass kicking for this, because it's more than just your average FR problem!

I fully agree with your two above quotes Cwldude.

This just yet again goes to show the all the faults, cost-cutting measures, lack of added-value services, lack of basic essential facilities and the complete arrogance of MO'L, and to be honest his claiming that the equipment was available, thus accusing a doctor and two nurses of not telling the truth, just shows how stupid and desperate this man is.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
brightcedars
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:21 pm

Guys, what do we know about airlines other than FR having this medical gear?
Do we have facts that compare FR and others' medical kits and show that they are more basic, sticking to the rule, and not innovative?
I'm not a fan of FR but I'd like to know if flying another airline would have put the medical people in a different position, despite this young girl's life apparently being an almost certain loss. RIP
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TheSunseeker
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:26 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
She had a brain haemorrage - its not as if they could have done anything anyway.

Thats not the point.

You dont need all hospital equipment on board but the fact that they did not even have latex gloves on board is a reflection of the quality Ryanair (and perhabs other airlines as well) provide.

I think I've read something about airlines having defibrillators on board.
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Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:31 pm

As long as it complies with the legal requirements, I fail to see the problem, not least because it would be impossible and naive to assume that you can have equipment in case of any conceivable problem. However, if they fail to meet the requirements, then they should – like all airlines if they breach the requirements – be dealt with.

Quoting Cwldude (Reply 6):
Whilst Ryanair are in no way responsible for this horrible incident, it once again proves their lack of safety!

LOL. If their "lack of safety" was so bad they'd have fatal crashes. Guess what? They don't. Evidently, their safety is very good, not least because it's the number-one consideration, particularly for LCCs: ignorant people, like you, assume they're less safe, so they have to prove they're extra safe. Clearly, you are confusing two issues: safety in this sense is irrelevant.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:33 pm

I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be a good idea to require basic medical supplies on board every commercial aircraft. Perhaps this should include latex gloves and other simple and inexpensive medical items of this nature.

In fact, up until now, I have never questioned that first-aid supplies are required equipment aboard commercial aircraft.
What's fair is fair.
 
cornish
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:34 pm

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 9):
Guys, what do we know about airlines other than FR having this medical gear?
Do we have facts that compare FR and others' medical kits and show that they are more basic, sticking to the rule, and not innovative?
I'm not a fan of FR but I'd like to know if flying another airline would have put the medical people in a different position, despite this young girl's life apparently being an almost certain loss. RIP

 checkmark  I suspect if you did a spot check on the aircraft of most airlines around the world, more than a few would be found lacking in all the essential medical equipment required by law. LCC or full service.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
N1120A
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:38 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Thread starter):
But she said the Ryanair staff were unable to provide her with any latex gloves or a resuscitation mask.

That is absolutely ridiculous. In the US, that would incur at least a major fine.

Quoting Braybuddy (Thread starter):
"I was basically giving that girl who I didn't know, mouth-to-mouth CPR, exchanging fluids. I wasn't not going to do it, but it's not a nice position to be placed in," she said.

Well, that is kind of F'ed up too. You aren't going to get HIV or Hepatitis C from that, so you don't just leave the person to die. If anything, get a piece of plastic and fashion your own mask

Quoting TheSunseeker (Reply 10):
I think I've read something about airlines having defibrillators on board.

In the US, every carrier must carry one and all flight crews must be trained to use them.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:40 pm

Many of the concerns expressed in this thread seem valid to me. My opinion is that all airlines should aspire toward at least a minimum reasonable level of first-aid provisioning, and while no airline should be singled out, I believe that passengers should not be required to accept the lowest common denominator theory of assistance.

Further, by the same token, I personally would be surprised to learn that any airline would accept that their flight attendants would be unable to administer CPR. (Nor am I suggesting that Ryanair accepts it, or that there was any particular failure or any other wrongdoing relative to the events in the story in question. I have no opinion in this regard.)

[Edited 2006-09-28 13:52:07]
What's fair is fair.
 
747400F
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:46 pm

I have seen LCC staff use latex gloves when dealing with rubbish onboard, could they not have lend those to the nurses? or would they have to pay for that, in true MOL style?
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MDorBust
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:50 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Thread starter):
But she said the Ryanair staff were unable to provide her with any latex gloves or a resuscitation mask.

Hell, I have that stuff on me and I'm not a medical professional. Why didn't two nurses and a doctor have it?
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:51 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Thread starter):
But she said the Ryanair staff were unable to provide her with any latex gloves or a resuscitation mask.

I sympathize with the nurse. Amongst my qualifications, I am an EMT. I always have gloves and a mask with me . . . whether in my squad car or my personal vehicle. I also carry them in my computer bag. They take up little room and would be a small price to pay if I was presented with a situation in which I needed them, and they were not available.

Two thoughts here:

Perhaps the nurse should consider carrying at least latex gloves in the future.

Perhaps she was in the habit of carrying them but current carryon restrictions in/out of the UK prevented it this time?

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
She had a brain haemorrage - its not as if they could have done anything anyway.

Irrelevent really. No one could know that at the time . . . you do what you have to do until you can't do it any longer . . .

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 5):
While the equiment wouldn't have been able to save the woman, the incident does raise serious questions.

 checkmark 

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
You aren't going to get HIV or Hepatitis C from that, so you don't just leave the person to die.

That may be true - however, I can assure you that every single instance of Mouth to Mouth I've read about or heard about isn't necessarily done text book fashion . . . what generally occurs is that air gets in to the stomach - as well as the lungs - and the victim vomits. One of the points that is constantly stressed during training and refresher courses in regard to the need for a mask is 'self protection from disease' and 'a vomit shield'. In fact, the masks are more commonly referred to as "Vomit Shields" rather than the proper name. Now . . . I don't know about you, but the idea of having some victim vomit into my mouth isn't exactly the most appealing thing to me . . .  vomit 

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Quoting TheSunseeker (Reply 10):
I think I've read something about airlines having defibrillators on board.

In the US, every carrier must carry one and all flight crews must be trained to use them.

 checkmark 

And modern defib units are idiot proof really . . . if the pads are properly placed the machine will tell you exactly what to do and when . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
N1120A
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:53 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
In fact, the masks are more commonly referred to as "Vomit Shields" rather than the proper name. Now . . . I don't know about you, but the idea of having some victim vomit into my mouth isn't exactly the most appealing thing to me . . .

If it meant someone's life, puke away.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:09 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
In fact, the masks are more commonly referred to as "Vomit Shields" rather than the proper name. Now . . . I don't know about you, but the idea of having some victim vomit into my mouth isn't exactly the most appealing thing to me . . .

If it meant someone's life, puke away.

That is, of course, the concensus, however - a little protection can't hurt . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
ryanairCRL
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:22 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 15):
Nor am I suggesting that Ryanair accepts it,

We're trained to give CPR, we all know the theory and practice it during training. Now I'd trust that doing it on a doll and on someone dying is very different...

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 15):
minimum reasonable level of first-aid provisioning

we carry 3 First-Aid kits in all aircraft. 1 for daily use (bandages, air sickness tablets,...) and 2 complying with JAR Ops, and which include "barrier mask" and gloves. And you'll find the gloves in the smaller one as well.
I personnally have a pair of gloves in the inside pocket of my jacket...because you never know.

As for defibrillators, I beleive they are only mandatory on long-haul flights, but I'm not sure about that.

Quoting Cwldude (Reply 6):
it once again proves their lack of safety!

a few months ago, a woman died on a flight in the US. the crew only realised it when she didn't get out of her seat at the end of the flight....
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EDDB
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:35 pm

Fact is that the two nurses and the docctor couldn't find what is minimum equipment in the onboard doctors kit, a resuscitation mask and latex gloves, and I don't see why they should have any reason not to tell the truth...
So that leaves us with two conclusions... Either it wasn't there or it was there and the flight crew did not know where and what to look for!
Both not tolerable imo...
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 17):
Hell, I have that stuff on me and I'm not a medical professional. Why didn't two nurses and a doctor have it?

If you fly Ryanair you have to pay for checked-in baggage. So people tend to cut down on luggage and bung what they have into a carry-on hold-all. Seeing the flight was coming from Venice I assume they were on holiday.

Also, maybe they did have it and it was in their checked baggage.
 
Kevin777
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:52 pm

Guys... great debate here, and I won't enter it!.. Just a little question from a new kid on the block who joined three days ago: What does MOL stand for???
..'Cause I guess it isn't Molde Airport in Norway..

Hope it isn't an embarresing question.... Yeah sure

Kevin777
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ltbewr
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:00 pm

Quoting EDDB (Reply 22):
So that leaves us with two conclusions... Either it wasn't there or it was there and the flight crew did not know where and what to look for!

In either case, Ryanair should face a money fine to make sure the do comply with the EC or national rule they have to comply with as to stocking such medical equipment.
It is also possible that with multiple persons responding in this situation, that the miminal amount of required items were used by 1-2 of them and not enough left for the 2nd or 3rd person or it lost track of them.
 
ryanairCRL
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:00 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 24):
MOL stand for???

Michael O'Leary, FR's CEO
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cornish
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 24):
What does MOL stand for???

Michael O'Leary - CEO of Ryanair and Pe@rson's Dad  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
EDDB
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 25):
It is also possible that with multiple persons responding in this situation, that the miminal amount of required items were used by 1-2 of them and not enough left for the 2nd or 3rd person or it lost track of them.

Since all three were involved I assume they are capable of determining if these things were once there or missing at all, don't you think?
 
Kevin777
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 26):
Michael O'Leary, FR's CEO

Okay that was kind of embarresing actually... but thanks!

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
call911mfc
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:09 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
You aren't going to get HIV or Hepatitis C from that, so you don't just leave the person to die.

That may be true - however, I can assure you that every single instance of Mouth to Mouth I've read about or heard about isn't necessarily done text book fashion . . . what generally occurs is that air gets in to the stomach - as well as the lungs - and the victim vomits. One of the points that is constantly stressed during training and refresher courses in regard to the need for a mask is 'self protection from disease' and 'a vomit shield'. In fact, the masks are more commonly referred to as "Vomit Shields" rather than the proper name. Now . . . I don't know about you, but the idea of having some victim vomit into my mouth isn't exactly the most appealing thing to me . . .

I'm an EMT as well and can echo ANC. Here in the US, even professionals have the right to refuse treatment without the proper protective devices. Does it happen? Sometimes. It's not an easy moral decision to make, but sometimes you have to make sure YOU make it home safe and sound. I've seen professionals take many chances in the past, but with everything that's out there anymore, it's always better to be safe than sorry.

And as far as not catching anything from mouth-to-mouth, you have take into consideration a whole new set of worries that most people aren't normally concerned about. Did she have bleeding gums? Did she have TB? If she vomits and you ingest some of it, you run a high risk of being contaminated.

Sometimes, it's not cut and dried when it comes to emergency situations.
 
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Braybuddy
Topic Author
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:15 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 25):
It is also possible that with multiple persons responding in this situation, that the miminal amount of required items were used by 1-2 of them and not enough left for the 2nd or 3rd person or it lost track of them.

Another quote from the article:
"Ryanair said all of its aircraft were stocked with two security-sealed first-aid kits, as required under the regulations. A spokeswoman said the first-aid kits on the Treviso-Dublin flight did contain four sets of latex gloves and two masks but she could not explain why the two nurses had not been provided with them."

Both nurses and the doctor have been on radio talking about how the three of them tried to revive the woman. All three are adamant there was no rescusictation mask.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:17 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 27):
Pe@rson's Dad

And Cornish's uncle and lover.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
richardw
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:31 pm

Be careful Pe@rson you could get banned again from this site.
 
cornish
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 32):
Quoting Cornish (Reply 27):
Pe@rson's Dad

And Cornish's uncle and lover.

That makes you my cousin  yuck 
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:36 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 34):
That makes you my cousin

Whatever floats your boat.  Silly

[Edited 2006-09-28 15:37:43]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
cornish
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 35):
Whatever floats your boat.

water usually  Silly
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 36):
water usually

You're as funny as a blind warthog running into a brick wall.  Silly
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:10 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 37):
Quoting Cornish (Reply 36):
water usually

You're as funny as a blind warthog running into a brick wall

LOL what are you on about? Thats hilarious!
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:12 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 38):
LOL what are you on about? Thats hilarious!

I have no idea. But one thing’s for sure: I am perfectly normal – my 5 physiatrists say so.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 39):
physiatrists

Is that even a word?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
krisyyz
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RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:18 pm

This is news to me; I was under the impression that all aircraft have to carry full resuscitation equipment (defibrillator, ACLS drugs and airway kit) or does that only apply to long haul flights?

KrisYYZ
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16004
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 40):
Is that even a word?

Probably not. Hello, my name is Pe@rson.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
traineepilot
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:01 am

RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:13 am

Why dig them for this? You dont see that kind of equipment on buses. Airlines are no hospitals, they a people transporters effectively. Aslong as they do the job they are suppose to, and is legal, why mock them?
 
sk736
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:47 am

RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 1):
Like not flying to the city I want to go to.

Isn't that stating the blindingly obvious? Who would fly with any airline that didn't fly to the city they wanted to go to?
 
TheSunseeker
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:04 pm

RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 15):
My opinion is that all airlines should aspire toward at least a minimum reasonable level of first-aid provisioning, and while no airline should be singled out, I believe that passengers should not be required to accept the lowest common denominator theory of assistance.

Hell yeah...perfectly said!  bigthumbsup 

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 17):
Hell, I have that stuff on me and I'm not a medical professional. Why didn't two nurses and a doctor have it?

Because the nurses are not responsible for the flight operation!

Quoting Traineepilot (Reply 43):
You dont see that kind of equipment on buses.

If there is a medical emergency on a bus, you stop the bus and call ambulance personal to help out!!
Landing a full aircraft does take a bit longer and is far more expensive than buying the minimum first aid kits for a whole fleet.
RSA: Dont drink and drive - take the train and get mugged
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting TheSunseeker (Reply 45):
Hell yeah...perfectly said! :bigthumbsup:

Thanks, TheSunseeker; I really appreciate that.

I think that many passengers appreciate that airline travel is essentially the highest form of long-range travel, short of a trip on a cruise ship. Thus, as you and others have noted, it behooves us all that airline companies provide as much assistance as reasonably possible so that their passengers are not subject to undue risks attendant to such an endeavor.

Often, for example, I travel hundreds of miles at a time by automobile. When I feel the need, I can stop the conveyance and address whatever issues arise; when I feel the need to sleep, I can find a nearby hotel.

As travel by aircraft is more advanced in some ways than mere travel by road, it seems to me that we owe it to ourselves that we take care of each other enough so that medical emergencies do not subject the passengers to a grossly inferior form of assistance to that which the passenger could potentially have obtained otherwise.

I believe that I am not alone in rejecting the idea that airliners should become glorified "cattle cars" in which passengers are treated without due regard for their needs. And this, I think, is regardless of the formal level of class that is provided.

As a matter of my personal opinion, there is a fundamental and irreducible amount of human decency in addressing foreseeable needs that should apply among all common carriers, and fulfilling the range of requirements relating to this fact should be foremost in the minds of all concerned.

[Edited 2006-09-28 18:50:11]
What's fair is fair.
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:01 am

Quoting TheSunseeker (Reply 45):
Quoting Traineepilot (Reply 43):
You dont see that kind of equipment on buses.

If there is a medical emergency on a bus, you stop the bus and call ambulance personal to help out!!
Landing a full aircraft does take a bit longer and is far more expensive than buying the minimum first aid kits for a whole fleet.

Excellent response TheSunseeker to Traineepilot, just what I was planning on responding when I read his post.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
Perhaps the nurse should consider carrying at least latex gloves in the future.

I don't think the nurse is at fault at all...she has the right not to be a "good samaritan". Considering that the cabin crew is in charge of passenger safety, and thus first aid, they are the ones who should have had access to barrier devices such as gloves.

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 31):
A spokeswoman said the first-aid kits on the Treviso-Dublin flight did contain four sets of latex gloves and two masks but she could not explain why the two nurses had not been provided with them

This means the confusion probably boils down to a training issue. Perhaps understandable during a crisis situation.

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 41):
I was under the impression that all aircraft have to carry full resuscitation equipment (defibrillator, ACLS drugs and airway kit)

Well, in the Emergency Medical Kits I have seen, the drugs are sadly lacking. Usually a couple of ampoules of adrenalin (epi), lidocaine...and then they throw in some pain meds, an epi-pen and antihistamines. What really matters most would be to have the defibrillator...

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 21):
I personnally have a pair of gloves in the inside pocket of my jacket...because you never know.

Good on you! Always prepared. I would hate to have to deal with the projectile vomiting without them.

[Edited 2006-09-28 19:13:52]
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
bastew
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: Ryanair Criticised After Woman Dies On Flight

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:22 am

The simple fact is, no matter what the medical emergency if the condition (what ever it is) leads to the casualty to stop breathing, equipment and training need to be in place for CPR.

Angina, diabeties, hypoxia etc on their own are not necessarily life threatening. But if in severe cases these all lead to the same thing.....the casualty stop breathing, folowed by the heart stopping and CPR is required.

The only real 'equipment' needed for CPR is staff trained in the procedure.

If you don't have that, any other equipment is useless.

At BA we do carry de-fibs, ambi bags, masks, gloves etc. Many of us actually carry a 'face shield' on our person in case the need might arise. It is drilled into us the importance of how quick CPR/de-fib must start to give a non-breathing passenger the best chance of survival.

However, the official line from our Aviation Medical Training department is that we should not start mouth to mouth resucitation without a face shield. Personally, I think if faced with a situation where i encountered a passenger not breathing and i didn't have my faceshield I would begin mouth-to-mouth regardless.

For an airline not to carry basic masks/gloves (or maybe their crew just not know where they are located on the aircraft?) is a disgrace.

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