User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 3805
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:55 pm

If the following report is correct EADS will outline the revised A380 delivery schedule tomorrow thus avoiding the 4 week delay reported previously

Sept. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS will unveil the new calendar for deliveries of its A380 superjumbo and details of the financial impact of the delays as early as tomorrow instead of in four weeks as it said previously, La Tribune reported, citing unidentified company officials.

Airbus, which delayed the A380 superjumbo jet for a second time in three months in September, could end all activities related to the aircraft at its plant in Hamburg, Germany, the newspaper said.


http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=c...conews&tkr=EAD:FP&sid=a3Z9PbJehdMY

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
If the following report is correct EADS will outline the revised A380 delivery schedule tomorrow thus avoiding the 4 week delay reported previously

Sept. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS will unveil the new calendar for deliveries of its A380 superjumbo and details of the financial impact of the delays as early as tomorrow instead of in four weeks as it said previously, La Tribune reported, citing unidentified company officials.

Airbus, which delayed the A380 superjumbo jet for a second time in three months in September, could end all activities related to the aircraft at its plant in Hamburg, Germany, the newspaper said.

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=c...conews&tkr=EAD:FP&sid=a3Z9PbJehdMY

Regards, PanAm_DC10

Interesting article PanAm_DC10. Thank you for sharing. Hopefully the revised delivery dates will be last of the numerous delays that we have seen.

It will be also interesting to see if the delays will be another 6 months like many have speculated.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:42 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Airbus, which delayed the A380 superjumbo jet for a second time in three months in September, could end all activities related to the aircraft at its plant in Hamburg, Germany, the newspaper said.

"Could end all activities" - does that mean a complete withdrawal of A380 works from Hamburg?


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
Scotland1979
Crew
Posts: 331
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:19 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:47 pm

300 miles of wiring.. that is long to put inside A380. It takes forever to put
Jesus said "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" - John 14:6
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:57 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 2):
"Could end all activities" - does that mean a complete withdrawal of A380 works from Hamburg?

That is what's been speculated about a lot in the press here these past days - relocating everything that was A380-relevant to Toulouse.

Makes sense, in my opinion.

That, of course, leaves the question: with the runway at Finkenwerder being expanded because of the A380... will that runway enlargement still go forward (after all, some work has already been done there), or will the runway stay as it is, since it's sufficient for the A318s, A319s and A321s that are built there?
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:02 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 1):
It will be also interesting to see if the delays will be another 6 months like many have speculated.

Who has speculated that? Well in any case, let's see what tomorrow brings...
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:09 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 4):

That is what's been speculated about a lot in the press here these past days - relocating everything that was A380-relevant to Toulouse.

Interesting - while flying around in Down Under I haven't really followed the German media in the past days...

Quoting Leskova (Reply 4):
That, of course, leaves the question: with the runway at Finkenwerder being expanded because of the A380... will that runway enlargement still go forward (after all, some work has already been done there), or will the runway stay as it is, since it's sufficient for the A318s, A319s and A321s that are built there?

Most likely many opponents of the project will now raise their voice again.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:19 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 6):
Interesting - while flying around in Down Under I haven't really followed the German media in the past days...

I know...  Smile ... it was clear to me that you wouldn't have missed it if you'd have been at home...  Wink

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 6):
Most likely many opponents of the project will now raise their voice again.

I'm quite certain of that - after all, they never really did fully quiet down, and as soon as they get this bit of news, we can expect demonstrations and the next round of legal proceedings to begin.

Quoting Joni (Reply 5):
Who has speculated that? Well in any case, let's see what tomorrow brings...

That was what some here on a.net speculated... and you're right - let's see what tomorrow brings, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that the delay is small... but I'm especially hopeful that this will now finally be the last announced delay, and that Airbus will manage to stay within that schedule. It's bad enough that they've had the amount of delays that they've already accumulated (including the one to be announced, possibly, tomorrow), they really need to get their act together... and fast.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
EDDB
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:46 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:19 pm

Quoting Leskova (Reply 4):
That is what's been speculated about a lot in the press here these past days - relocating everything that was A380-relevant to Toulouse.

And in exchange moving A320 to HAM, at least that's what the HANDELSBLATT says...

IMO this would have been the best solution from the beginning on!
 
CHIFLYGUY
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:14 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:34 pm

Is Airbus obligated to manufacture a certain percentage of the A380 in Hamburg due to launch aid provided by the German government? I thought part of the premise of launch aid was to secure jobs for particular regions.
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:41 pm

Quoting EDDB (Reply 8):

And in exchange moving A320 to HAM, at least that's what the HANDELSBLATT says...

IMO this would have been the best solution from the beginning on!

If true this would make alot of sense.

France: A330/A340/A350/A380
Germany: A318/319/320/321 and future A320NG
Spain: A400M

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:47 pm

Wouldn't moving the fuselage fabrication, as well as the cabin installation operations from XFW to TLS involve considerable time and expense? Would additional facilities need to be constructed at TLS to accomodate such a draconian change in the production scheme?

[Edited 2006-09-28 14:10:58]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Halibut
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:43 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:51 pm

Looks as though the A380 Break Even number just went up even more . The mammoth A380 project is resulting in Airbus to neglect all other programs !

 scared 

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=c...conews&tkr=EAD:FP&sid=a3Z9PbJehdMY

Cost overruns related to the delays may amount to $1.68 billion for the 168 orders and expressed intentions to buy the aircraft over the 2007 to 2010 period, La Tribune said, citing a report by Goldman Sachs. Overall, the delays in the A380, A350 and A400M aircraft could cost Airbus's parent European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co. 4.3 billion euros ($5.5 billion), the newspaper said, citing the report.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 2):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Airbus, which delayed the A380 superjumbo jet for a second time in three months in September, could end all activities related to the aircraft at its plant in Hamburg, Germany, the newspaper said.

"Could end all activities" - does that mean a complete withdrawal of A380 works from Hamburg?

We'll see ?

Hhhmm  scratchchin 
A380 Production Could Be Moved Outside Europe! (by Halibut Sep 21 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
EDDB
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:46 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 9):


Is Airbus obligated to manufacture a certain percentage of the A380 in Hamburg due to launch aid provided by the German government? I thought part of the premise of launch aid was to secure jobs for particular regions.

This is indeed a (political) problem to be sorted out...
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:33 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 2):
"Could end all activities" - does that mean a complete withdrawal of A380 works from Hamburg?

That is how I read it. I don't see any other possible meaning. I wondered whether or not that would be a permanent change.

Quoting Scotland1979 (Reply 3):
300 miles of wiring.. that is long to put inside A380. It takes forever to put

It seems to be taking longer than that because of the iterative nature of the process: design, model, test on the bench (maybe go back to step 1), install, test inflight, go back to step 1, repeat.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 4):
That, of course, leaves the question: with the runway at Finkenwerder being expanded because of the A380... will that runway enlargement still go forward (after all, some work has already been done there), or will the runway stay as it is, since it's sufficient for the A318s, A319s and A321s that are built there?

Good question. I've flown in and out of XFW 5 times and always found it uncomfortable to see how many cars had to stop and wait while we taxied across the road.

Quoting Joni (Reply 5):
Who has speculated that? Well in any case, let's see what tomorrow brings...

That seems to just be idle A.net speculation based on the past delays of 2 months, then 6 months, then 7 months. The fourth delay could be 2 months, 6 months, or some other period. There is little point in speculating with an announcement expected tomorrow.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:55 pm

Maybe as compensation of losing A380 work, Hamburg is given the A350 production? EADS will have to flexible with the production sites.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:07 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
The fourth delay could be 2 months, 6 months, or some other period.

It is probably already impossible to describe the delays in terms of a given number of months. After all, we are not looking at a mere delay until first delivery, after which 'normal service will be resumed'; there is a 'double hit', not only will the first delivery be later than planned, but, as already admitted by Airbus, future production and delivery rates will be lower than planned for at least the first three years.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
NYC777
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 pm

I trully hope they don't have that ceremonial delivery for the first one. that is an entirely stupid idea and would make SQ look like idiots. It'll be interesting to see the length of the newest delay and the financial impact.

At this point I think there will only be one minor cancellation (MAS) but that would be it. If there are more delays after this one then many of the customers will be asking if this is worth it.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:36 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
I wondered whether or not that would be a permanent change.

Is it feasible to "temporarily" fabricate fuselage sections at TLS which are currently being manufactured at XFW?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:44 pm

Quoting Halibut (Reply 12):
Cost overruns related to the delays may amount to $1.68 billion for the 168 orders and expressed intentions to buy the aircraft over the 2007 to 2010 period, La Tribune said, citing a report by Goldman Sachs. Overall, the delays in the A380, A350 and A400M aircraft could cost Airbus's parent European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co. 4.3 billion euros ($5.5 billion), the newspaper said, citing the report.

This is what caught my eye as well. These estimates are getting ever larger, and certainly must become a constraint in Airbus's plans. The Goldman Sachs report was published yesterday...I'm wondering if any A.Netter might have access to it or provide a link?
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:48 pm

Wow, thats a lot of cash drain to spread out over maybe 300 frames.
One Nation Under God
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:19 pm

An extra $10,000,000 per frame cost? On top of all the other overruns?
 
BoomBoom
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:30 am

Quote:
Airline executives have publicly voiced frustration at their inability to plan schedules and related investments because they lack information about A380 deliveries. Airbus officials have been meeting this week with airline executives to discuss the A380 situation, but carriers haven't said that they had received firm new delivery dates from Airbus.

In the absence of solid news, and following last week's warning by EADS, rumors have been swirling in aviation circles. Industry officials say that the longer EADS and Airbus let the current information vacuum continue, the more difficult their situation will become.

A senior executive at a major A380 customer said Thursday his airline still hadn't received a revised delivery timetable but only "tentative suggestions." He spoke on the condition of anonymity.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...928-710581.html?mod=moj_industries
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
NYC777
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 22):
A senior executive at a major A380 customer said Thursday his airline still hadn't received a revised delivery timetable but only "tentative suggestions." He spoke on the condition of anonymity

Sounds like the airline is either SQ or EK. This is not good!! "Tentative suggestions" What the hell does that mean. If this keeps up then some airlines will cancel orders and other will buy Boeing to show displeasure at the situation. Specifically, Emirates is looking to buy 100 787s or A350s. The longer this situation persists, the more likely that this order will go to Boeing. Not that EK will be getting an inferior airplane. On the contrary it just makes EKs decision about potentially buying the 787 that much more easier.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
EDDB
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:46 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 23):
Specifically, Emirates is looking to buy 100 787s or A350s. The longer this situation persists, the more likely that this order will go to Boeing. Not that EK will be getting an inferior airplane. On the contrary it just makes EKs decision about potentially buying the 787 that much more easier.

Why? Because being pissed is what drives the airline industrie? I thought is was money but I could be wrong...  Wink

(I hope you get my point, that it is quite nice at the moment for customers to negotiate deals with Airbus...)
 
NYC777
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:01 am

Everyone has their limits. The customer have their limits (with delays) and so does the OEM (with how much compensation they're willing to pay and discounts they're willing to give). When these limits don't meet then that's an opportunity for Boeing to get a deal done with a superior product.

It's more than just about compensation or getting good deal. It seems that Airbus is not, can not or will not talk to their customers about these delays and that is compounding the delay issue and getting the customers even more mad.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting EDDB (Reply 8):
IMO this would have been the best solution from the beginning on!

Well obviously trucking and shipping giant fuselage parts around Europe wasn't the best answer, but it was an impressive answer, and the whole program was about prestige and impressing people. And Germany couldn't have been left out of that.

Quoting EDDB (Reply 13):
This is indeed a (political) problem to be sorted out...

Since launch aid is platform specific, is it "legal" to compensate germany by consolidating A320 series aircraft in germany for the loss of A380 jobs?

I'm not sure how the whole launch aid/jobs program/socialized manufacturing thing works in that regard. How will France react to losing A320 jobs to Germany even if they gain A380 jobs? Can Airbus ask A380 employees to relocate to France? Is the EU open in that way at this point?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
pygmalion
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:47 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting EDDB (Reply 24):
Why? Because being pissed is what drives the airline industrie? I thought is was money but I could be wrong...

(I hope you get my point, that it is quite nice at the moment for customers to negotiate deals with Airbus...)

Most suppliers know that pissed off customers typically take their business elsewhere. Maybe not today... but certainly the next time Airbus shows up at the door with a shiny new brochure.... they might get told.. "no thanks, we already have a new supplier"
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 26):
Is the EU open in that way at this point?

If you're asking whether EU citizens can work in other EU countries without problems then, yes, this is possible (I'm doing just that, living and working in Germany but being a national of another EU country).

Whether Airbus can ask their employees to relocate to Hamburg or Toulouse respectively - sure, they've already done so on some scale while trying to sort out the A380's problems; whether they can do this on a larger scale or on a permanent basis is more the question of what they've got in the contracts with their employees.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
EDDB
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:46 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 25):
It's more than just about compensation or getting good deal. It seems that Airbus is not, can not or will not talk to their customers about these delays and that is compounding the delay issue and getting the customers even more mad.

First of all, I think we don't talk about 12-year-olds but about experienced airline CEOs, so 'getting even more mad' or whatever is not what I would expect from them!

Second, I thought it was a 787/350 order battle, so I don't see why A380 delay affects the A350 story, that is unless you suggest that cause Airbus screwed up A380 EIS they of course will screw up any forthcoming program...

And last, it IS only about money and getting a good deal, believe me! Most executives I talked to in my own company (LH) show less feelings, passion or enthusiasm than the average a.netter!

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 25):
When these limits don't meet then that's an opportunity for Boeing to get a deal done with a superior product.

And we all know which plane is the superior product for which airline, don't we...  Wink
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23204
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:26 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Airbus, which delayed the A380 superjumbo jet for a second time in three months in September, could end all activities related to the aircraft at its plant in Hamburg, Germany, the newspaper said.



Quoting Leelaw (Reply 11):
Wouldn't moving the fuselage fabrication, as well as the cabin installation operations from XFW to TLS involve considerable time and expense? Would additional facilities need to be constructed at TLS to accommodate such a draconian change in the production scheme?

Does HAM build any part of the A380? Or are they purely an interior configuration integrator?

And if the latter, why yank them? Even though they muffed the first seven birds, I imagine MSN008 and beyond have been stopped so once TLS figures out the wiring configuration, HAM can follow it.

Or is it just faster to complete build-out in TLS, rather then fly the empty frame to HAM to have interiors installed?

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 15):
Maybe as compensation of losing A380 work, Hamburg is given the A350 production? EADS will have to flexible with the production sites.

Most likely the A350 will be built at TLS since the A300/A310 factory space is now available with the termination of both of those programs.

However, sending the A320 to HAM to join the rest of the family makes sense both as "compensation" for losing the A380 work as well as having all of the family built in one location.
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting EDDB (Reply 29):
And last, it IS only about money and getting a good deal, believe me! Most executives I talked to in my own company (LH) show less feelings, passion or enthusiasm than the average a.netter!

To be honest... I'd be seriously worried about LH if it were any different!!!
Smile - it confuses people!
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 28):

Thanks for the info. So if Airbus offers all current German workers the opportunity to continue to work on the A380 in Toulouse, then it might go a long way in easing the launch aid tensions...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting EDDB (Reply 29):
And we all know which plane is the superior product for which airline, don't we...

The order book speaks for itself, doesn't it?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 30):
Does HAM build any part of the A380? Or are they purely an interior configuration integrator?

I was wondering that, too. If all A380 work is moved to Toulouse, does that mean any other A380 work done in Germany moves there too?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 30):
Does HAM build any part of the A380? Or are they purely an interior configuration integrator?

And if the latter, why yank them? Even though they muffed the first seven birds, I imagine MSN008 and beyond have been stopped so once TLS figures out the wiring configuration, HAM can follow it.

Or is it just faster to complete build-out in TLS, rather then fly the empty frame to HAM to have interiors installed?

Per Airbus A380 Navigator:

...For the A380 Hamburg manufactures the front and rear fuselage sections. Following the aircraft's assembly in Toulouse, the A380 will fly to Hamburg for cabin furnishing and painting. The site will also be responsible for delivering the A380 to customers in Europe and the Middle East.

A major component assembly hall to house the structural assembly of the forward and aft fuselage sections of the A380 as well as the complete customized equipping with all systems, opened in May 2003. In addition an interior furnishing hangar, new paint shops, a pre-flight hangar and a delivery centre are also being constructed. Structural assembly of the fuselage sections is due to begin in August 2003, with the first paintwork applications scheduled to begin at the end of 2004.

Parts will be transported to Hamburg by road and waterway, with major fuselage sections sent on to the Toulouse final assembly line by a mix of sea, river and road transport.


IMO, moving all A380 activities out of XFW would be a very costly and time consuming repudiation of Airbus's "industrial" policy of the last six years. One wonders what would precipitate such a draconian step?

[Edited 2006-09-28 21:06:20]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
EDDB
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:46 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 33):
The order book speaks for itself, doesn't it?

Not again.... I seems we two can't agree on comparing numbers that ARE comparable! How do you want to compare an aircraft program that was launched nearly 3 years ago with one that isnt even officially launched? I don't get it! It's as useless as comparing 748i and A380 sales... Some things just don't make sense!
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 33):
The order book speaks for itself, doesn't it?

You mean the orderbook of a plane launched in 2004 compared to a plane which is expected to be launched (at which point it's manufacturer can officially start taking orders for it) in a month or so?

I won't argue the fact that Airbus has seriously overslept a few decisions, but comparing the orderbooks of the two on a 1:1 basis simply doesn't work.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 32):
Thanks for the info. So if Airbus offers all current German workers the opportunity to continue to work on the A380 in Toulouse, then it might go a long way in easing the launch aid tensions...

Could work that way, though I'm still somewhat at a loss as to how Streiff plans on working the issue. I certainly do hope he'll be able to get the decisions made that should have been made months... make that years... ago.
Smile - it confuses people!
 
barbarian
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:10 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:16 am

Germany = FAF = Forward and Aft Fuselage
France = NCF = Nose and Centre Fuselage

I dont believe that Hamburg has a problem physically producing the fuselage sections, what they do have is a complicated wiring problem that isn't helped by the fact that the wiring of both their segments must also interface seamlessly with the French Nose and Center sections.

I would be amazed if they moved any work out of Hamburg after the investment that has gone into that site, reclaimed land, massive production, flight test and paint facilities..... These facilities are built for the A380, and would dwarf the SA aircrafts needs.
Whilst you may get away with manufacturing the German sections in existing hangers in Toulouse, you would have to build new hangers at Jean-Luc Lagardère to handle the cabin installation. Just doesn't seem likely at all.
Will find out soon enough....
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 21):

I believe the number is $ 100,000,000.00 per frame!!! Cash flow, cash flow and cash flow is the sacred cow of any business big or small. How they are going to finance all of this with diminished revenue due to delays is beyond me. They may need some help from the governments of France and Germany, however, that would nix any chance they have of getting the tanker project from the USAF.
 
hb88
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:25 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 10):
If true this would make alot of sense.

France: A330/A340/A350/A380
Germany: A318/319/320/321 and future A320NG
Spain: A400M

ahem... haven't you forgotten something?

The UK. (little things like wings, fuel systems, landing hear...)

In any case, your proposed outline of the work division is not realistic. Each Airbus Natcos responsibility is generally/primarily split along technical domain, not aircraft type. However, _assembly_ of narrowbodies goes on in HAM and widebodies in TLS.
 
EDDB
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:46 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 39):
I believe the number is $ 100,000,000.00 per frame!!! Cash flow, cash flow and cash flow is the sacred cow of any business big or small. How they are going to finance all of this with diminished revenue due to delays is beyond me. They may need some help from the governments of France and Germany, however, that would nix any chance they have of getting the tanker project from the USAF.

Nice calculation, but you are aware that they're talking about A380, A350 and A400M costs (which makes me wonder how they get the numbers for the latter two)!

See here...

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 19):
Quoting Halibut (Reply 12):
Cost overruns related to the delays may amount to $1.68 billion for the 168 orders and expressed intentions to buy the aircraft over the 2007 to 2010 period, La Tribune said, citing a report by Goldman Sachs. Overall, the delays in the A380, A350 and A400M aircraft could cost Airbus's parent European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co. 4.3 billion euros ($5.5 billion), the newspaper said, citing the report.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:02 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 28):
If you're asking whether EU citizens can work in other EU countries without problems then, yes, this is possible (I'm doing just that, living and working in Germany but being a national of another EU country).

That's how it works in theory, but the reality can be different. Lithuanian citizens are free to live and work in the UK, Ireland, and Sweden, but not other EU countries such as France and Germany.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 35):
One wonders what would precipitate such a draconian step?

Four major delays?
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting Hb88 (Reply 40):
ahem... haven't you forgotten something?

I guess he meant just final assembly of the aircraft.


I also believe the A320 should have been moved to XFW, with the A380 painting and interior outfitting staying in TLS.

But if it is done now, I can't help but think the decision is a little late !
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 39):
I believe the number is $ 100,000,000.00 per frame!!!

It's $10million, which is plenty. dollarsign 

 arrow  Again, does anyone have access to the actual Goldman Sachs report? I'm a junkie, and I need a fix.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 42):
Four major delays?

I find it odd that the optimal solution to the delays plaguing the A380 program at this late stage of the "industrialization" process is to physically relocate the production facilities; nevertheless, stranger things have happened.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
katekebo
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 12:02 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:59 am

http://www.todayonline.com/articles/145528.asp

Quote:
The new chief executive of European airliner manufacturer Airbus is set to present a vast restructuring plan for the group to the board of parent company EADS, union sources told AFP....
....Airbus chief executive Christian Streiff, in the job since July, is expected to outline a plan to restructure and reorganise the Toulouse-based manufacturer, which is likely to include major job cuts and other efficiency measures.

The part about major job cuts called my attention. How is Airbus expecting to support the delivery of the huge backlog of existing orders, AND fix the issues with the A380, AND develop the A350 in due time, AND start working in the A320E, all at the same time, with less people? Something will have to be postponed.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 46):
The part about major job cuts called my attention. How is Airbus expecting to support the delivery of the huge backlog of existing orders, AND fix the issues with the A380, AND develop the A350 in due time, AND start working in the A320E, all at the same time, with less people? Something will have to be postponed.

In my opinion, it would be better to cancel the WhaleJet and get the A350, A320E, and NSR right.
 
brendows
Posts: 801
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:55 pm

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 47):
In my opinion, it would be better to cancel the WhaleJet and get the A350, A320E, and NSR right.

They past that point a long time ago, I guess you know that too Zvezda  Smile But yes, getting the projects you mention right is far more important now, they have the best chances of being Airbus' cash cows in the future.
 
katekebo
Posts: 678
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2001 12:02 am

RE: New A380 Delivery Schedule Released 9/29

Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 47):
it would be better to cancel the WhaleJet

I don't think this is even an option. What would be the financial compensation for the 159 orders already in place? I don't think Airbus/EADS has enough cash to return the down-payments and pay a substantial penalty for order cancellations. Needless to say that this would shatter customer confidence and Airbus would have hard time getting any new orders, even for established models. They have no other choice, but to carry on and minimize the losses.

However, the A350 may be the real victim - the development may have to be postponed by a year or two. It is already late vs. the B787 and even with current EIS estimates, it is unsure if it will be able to grab enough market to make it an attractive return-on-investment in a market that is quickly becoming saturated with B777s and B787s. A couple of years of delay could simply spell the end for the A350, at least in it's current incarnation.

I think Airbus has no other choice, but to invest all its resources (and get some additional ones) into sorting out the A380 problems, and cut the development time of A350 to make it real competitor vs. the B787 (schedule-wise). It will be painful from the profitability standpoint, but necessary to preserve leadership position.

In my opinion implementing cost-cutting measures at this moment may send Airbus in a downward spiral similar to what happened to GM and Ford - they focused on reducing cost to maintain profitability, while leaving out innovation and consequently conceding the market to the competition.