dtwclipper
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DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:09 pm

Yesterday my meeting was running late, and I couldn't make the last NW flight from CVG back to DTW. DL has a later flight, so I called NW and asked them to rebook it. NW Elite Services said they could not book the Comair flight.

I called Delta, and they said I would have to purchase a New ticket, and get a refund from NW.

NW itself has protected me on a Comair flight from DTW to CVG in the past, but I suspect the situation was different as it was a NW cancellation.

According to NWA.COM the list as partners:

All Delta, Delta Shuttle and Delta Connection-operated flights.

So, why couldn't NW/DL accommodate me in a rational way? Oh wait I know, it's the airlines!!!

What happened to seamless transportation?
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DLPMMM
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:45 pm

DL just said that you need to buy a ticket. In the other cases, NW was buying you a refundable ticket as "protection". I am sure that NW would have sold you a DL ticket if you would have asked, but I am assuming the DL ticket was more expensive than the NW ticket and as such, a simple assignment of the ticket from NW to DL would not work for DL.

More info such as fare classes and price of tickets would be helpful, but in any case, I don't think it unreasonable that an airline would want you to have one of their tickets in order to fly on one of their planes.

Cheers
 
dtwclipper
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:52 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
More info such as fare classes and price of tickets would be helpful, but in any case, I don't think it unreasonable that an airline would want you to have one of their tickets in order to fly on one of their planes.

Cheers

Sorry, I should have mentioned that it was a "B" fare.

Original fare:

Base Fare: USD714.42 Tax:14.00

Tax:53.58 Tax:6.60 E-Ticket Total: USD788.60


Fare Calculation: 4 DTT NW LEX371.16/-CVG NW DTT 343.26USD714.42END NW ZPDTWCVG XT5.00AY9.00XF DTW4.5CVG4.5
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DLPMMM
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:37 pm

At that rate, NW should have printed you a ticket and endorsed it over or e-ticketed you directly onto DL. (DL's OW same day fare is $379.30 including tax).

NW can book DL flights, so I think the problem was the NW "elite" agent that said it was not possible.

I would send a little note to NW about it when you get your refund.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:49 pm

Thanks DLPMMM. I will send NW a note.


The point really is, the airline alliances advertise themselves as seamless travel across their systems.

This does not appear to be the truth when it comes down to it.

I don't get it? What part of the programme am I missing.
Shouldn't I have been able to rebook with one phone call between Skyteam members?
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B777-700
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
So, why couldn't NW/DL accommodate me in a rational way? Oh wait I know, it's the airlines!!!



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
Yesterday my meeting was running late, and I couldn't make the last NW flight from CVG back to DTW.

You just answered your own question.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4):
The point really is, the airline alliances advertise themselves as seamless travel across their systems.

Not if you miss your own flight. It's not just one big airline. It's two seperate companies.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:15 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 5):
Not if you miss your own flight. It's not just one big airline. It's two seperate companies

I didn't miss my flight, I called hours in advance to rebook.

But that still doesn't clarify it for me.

What part of Alliance am I missing?
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B777-700
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 6):
What part of Alliance am I missing?

Doesn't matter...it was a voluntary change...and no partner is obligated to put you on any other partner in that situation....in effect, you missed (didn't take) your own flight.

No where on the SkyTeam, or any other alliance website does it say the airlines are interchangable on a whim. I can't book a CO flight on their website, then call up CO res and say 'Hey put me on Delta instead'...They have to hand that money over to Delta, which isn't going to happen if it wasn't something w/in CO's control.

An alliance works when it's booked as a codeshare, for FF tickets, or in irop situations.

Unless it's a codeshare, if you book on NW, you go on NW.
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georgiaame
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4):
the airline alliances advertise themselves as seamless travel across their systems.

Yeah, just like they love to advertise how simple it is to fly anywhere in the world on frequent flyer miles, until you try to use them.

Not since the fall of the Byzantine empire has mankind been able to erect a more complex, convoluted, unfair, absurd way of doing business.

Caveat emptor!
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
dtwclipper
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 7):
Doesn't matter...it was a voluntary change...and no partner is obligated to put you on any other partner in that situation....in effect, you missed (didn't take) your own flight.

No where on the SkyTeam, or any other alliance website does it say the airlines are interchangable on a whim. I can't book a CO flight on their website, then call up CO res and say 'Hey put me on Delta instead'...They have to hand that money over to Delta, which isn't going to happen if it wasn't something w/in CO's control.

An alliance works when it's booked as a codeshare, for FF tickets, or in irop situations.

Unless it's a codeshare, if you book on NW, you go on NW.

So, long story short, airline alliances are BS.

They have the ability to rebook me on DL at their whim due to an irop: 25AUG2006 DL 5567 DL 5567 Y/Y DTW - CVG, as they did when my NW flight was cxld, and I got Worldperk Miles for it, but when I as a passenger need to change my plans I'm S.O.O.L.!
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B777-700
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 8):
Yeah, just like they love to advertise how simple it is to fly anywhere in the world on frequent flyer miles, until you try to use them.

Not since the fall of the Byzantine empire has mankind been able to erect a more complex, convoluted, unfair, absurd way of doing business.

Caveat emptor!

No, it's pretty simple, I can understand how it might be complicated for people like you tho.

But as usual, I expect you just to troll and never come back to back up any of your claims.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 9):
So, long story short, airline alliances are BS.

No they're not, sorry. I don't know how you came up with the idea that you can just jump from airline to airline whenever you want. If you can show me where on the SkyTeam website it says you can do that, I'll agree with you.

Long story short, you're mad at DL / NW / SkyTeam because you asked for something that couldn't be done, and they didn't do it.
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dtwclipper
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 10):
No they're not, sorry. I don't know how you came up with the idea that you can just jump from airline to airline whenever you want. If you can show me where on the SkyTeam website it says you can do that, I'll agree with you.

Long story short, you're mad at DL / NW / SkyTeam because you asked for something that couldn't be done, and they didn't do it.

I'm not mad, just trying to figure out the logic, so I don't have problems.

BTW...when you quote someone, don't cherry pick it, it's somewhat rude.
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dtwclipper
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 10):
If you can show me where on the SkyTeam website it says you can do that

"As a world traveler, you want flexibility and more choices for your international travel.

With our 10 member airlines and 14,615 daily flights to 728 destinations in 149 countries, SkyTeam makes life easier for frequent business travelers."


"You are guaranteed quality SkyTeam service on all member airlines."

http://www.skyteam.com/EN/index.jsp
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deltagator
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 9):
So, long story short, airline alliances are BS.

They have the ability to rebook me on DL at their whim due to an irop: 25AUG2006 DL 5567 DL 5567 Y/Y DTW - CVG, as they did when my NW flight was cxld, and I got Worldperk Miles for it, but when I as a passenger need to change my plans I'm S.O.O.L.!

Well I wouldn't characterize them always that way but in your case sort of. You needed to make a change due to you running late and NW didn't want to give up their cash flow by giving it to Delta despite them being partners. They don't codeshare on every flight and that is what you ran up against. I flew CO home from EWR last week because DL's last flight was leaving about the time my SQ flight was landing. Unfortunately DL didn't codeshare on the later CO flights so I had to purchase a separate CO ticket.

In the long run perhaps it would do them a good job to do so since you wouldn't be on here fussing about it but rather praising them for taking care of you. Of course you've already stated that airline rules and business decisions don't make a lot of sense and this is yet another example of that belief.
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Cubsrule
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:09 am

Skyteam is BY FAR the least integrated of the three major alliances. I can't put my w/p number in at delta.com. I can't get boarding passes from a DL agent for NW- or CO- operated flights. I could go on. NW/CO/KL is pretty seamless, as is DL/AF, but beyond that, it's anybody's guess.
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TVNWZ
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 9):
They have the ability to rebook me on DL at their whim due to an irop: 25AUG2006 DL 5567 DL 5567 Y/Y DTW - CVG, as they did when my NW flight was cxld, and I got Worldperk Miles for it, but when I as a passenger need to change my plans I'm S.O.O.L.!

Partially true. They want to make it convenient as possible, but they are going to go out of their way to keep the money you have already spent. Good business practice for them. Sucks to be you.

But, I get even with them when booking flights. i check NW, DL and CO a lot of times for the same route and come up with the cheapest ticket and take that. I often fly on NW with a so-called DL ticket for hundreds cheaper.....

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
I can't get boarding passes from a DL agent for NW- or CO- operated flights.

This has never been a problem with me since I have no reason to go to DL or CO if I am heading to the NW gate even though, as mentioned above, I am flying NW. Makes more sense to me to check in on the airline I am flying. But, I understand how you might want to do it differently.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 13):
I flew CO home from EWR last week because DL's last flight was leaving about the time my SQ flight was landing. Unfortunately DL didn't codeshare on the later CO flights so I had to purchase a separate CO ticket.

And you did a great trip report about it that I enjoyed very much!  Smile
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 15):
This has never been a problem with me since I have no reason to go to DL or CO if I am heading to the NW gate even though, as mentioned above, I am flying NW. Makes more sense to me to check in on the airline I am flying. But, I understand how you might want to do it differently.

No, DL won't give you boarding passes when your travel starts with DL and downline segments are on CO or NW.
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B777-700
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
No, DL won't give you boarding passes when your travel starts with DL and downline segments are on CO or NW.

Yes, they will. You're checked in the whole way by the org. carrier on a codeshare tkt.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 12):
"As a world traveler, you want flexibility and more choices for your international travel.

With our 10 member airlines and 14,615 daily flights to 728 destinations in 149 countries, SkyTeam makes life easier for frequent business travelers."


"You are guaranteed quality SkyTeam service on all member airlines."

That doesn't say you can jump from carrier to carrier whenever you want. That's not part of the deal.

You didn't buy a tkt on SkyTeam, you bought a ticket on NW. You're asking for something that can't be done, end of story.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 17):
Yes, they will. You're checked in the whole way by the org. carrier on a codeshare tkt.

I've had trouble in both SCL and ATL. It was a NW segment once and a CO segment the other time.
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dtwclipper
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:15 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 17):
You didn't buy a tkt on SkyTeam, you bought a ticket on NW. You're asking for something that can't be done, end of story.

My my my, you are a little testy this morning.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 17):
You are guaranteed quality SkyTeam service on all member airlines."

What does this mean then?

When I pay $800 every week to fly between DTW and LEX or CVG, I think they can stretch the rules, don't you?
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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:40 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 17):
You didn't buy a tkt on SkyTeam, you bought a ticket on NW. You're asking for something that can't be done, end of story.

Come on, lets all just take a deep breath. He was just searching for logic behind an experience he had on a flight that didn't make sense; isn't that part of what this forum is for, to get questions answered for which we won't know the answer?

I mean, we don't have to start a boxing match about things that have already been stated. Just take a deep breath and relax. In the end, we are all here for fun, right?
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TVNWZ
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:33 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 19):
Quoting B777-700 (Reply 17):
You are guaranteed quality SkyTeam service on all member airlines."

What does this mean then?

It means you will get a free coke.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:43 am

What the agent at NW and DL told you was 100% correct. Unfortunetely, the do not codeshare on every flight, and there are certain restrictions on codesharing that were required by the DOJ for anti-trust reasons. The airlines aren't generally aren't allowed to codeshare on hub-to-hub routes.

They can't endorse you over to DL unless they are the ones initiating the change. Since you were on a B fare, you could've asked for a refund on the NW ticket, then gone and bought a DL ticket, however I'm not sure how it works since you had already used part of the reservation on the outbound.

This isn't unique to Skyteam, the others are like that when they are not codeshare flights. What the alliance does help with is booking codeshare connecting flights (where they exist), checking through baggage, and FF miles.

As others have said, DL is the least integrated into the rest of Skyteam, othe than AF. There are major issues between DL/CO and DL/NW.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:03 am

Thanks PSU, and others for clearing that up.

I was never really irate about it, just trying to understand why it was an issue.

I think that even for someone like myself who travels weekly, the concept of "aliance" was somewhat bedeviling to me.

I think I understand the situation better, thanks!
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TVNWZ
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 23):
think I understand the situation better, thanks!

And enjoy that can of Coke!  Smile
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:41 am

As a travel agent. It would seem like NW should have put you on the DL flight. However, we have to remember that both airlines are in bankreputsy. And they are not about to give any of their money to anyone. So you got caught inbetween them. And as they are in this bankreputsy, they are not going to work to hard on seamlining their services. Remember KLM is still up in the air about keeping NWA as a partner. (as per news reports we get from the airline). I think after these airlines get out of there current situation, things will get better. As far as the CO/SQ thing goes. Why didn't your travel agent (if you use one) book everything under one ticket? Because we
can do that without having the person buy two (2) different tickets.

Chuck
 
luv2fly
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:02 am

I think the thing to remember is that NW/DL are not allowed to code share on the flights that operate solely between the hubs of said airline.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:05 am

This has nothing to do with bankruptcy. Both airlines are businesses, and they will only cooperate to a certain extent. NW is going to give its money to DL. They will let you have your money back, if entitled to any, and allow you to give DL their money. There is nothing to endorse in this situation since the passenger was the one initiating the change.

If it is due to mechanical, overbooking, or weather, then the situation is completely different. Could you imagine how complicated it would be everytime if everyone wanted to just jump between carriers.

The NW/KLM relationship is still going strong, however, with the KLM/AF merger, NW / KLM in the future may loosen their relationship, so that NW will be more able to codeshare with all Skyteam partners like AF, OK, AZ, and KLM. It has nothing to do with NW in bankruptcy, it has more to do with the evolving Skyteam alliance.

I agree, codeshares can be very confusing to the average passenger. Especially since they are not clear about the limits of the codeshare, ticketing rules, even who is operating specific flights.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 27):
Could you imagine how complicated it would be everytime if everyone wanted to just jump between carriers.

Actually it would be very simple...if they wanted it to be. It surely is no more complicated than accounting for weather, overbooking, mechanicals. It just another charge/transfer/refund reconciled at a particular point in time.

I agree whole heartedly overall with your post. They are two businesss and will only cooperate as much as it is to each company's advantage.
 
freedom747
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:02 am

Airlines aren't responsible for having to rebook for free because of YOUR meeting ran late, bud. God, I hated that saying from business jerks whenever they'd show up at the gates. TUFF!

[Edited 2006-09-30 22:08:11]
 
RobertS975
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:02 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4):
The point really is, the airline alliances advertise themselves as seamless travel across their systems.

This does not appear to be the truth when it comes down to it.

I don't get it? What part of the programme am I missing.
Shouldn't I have been able to rebook with one phone call between Skyteam members?

PSU is correct. There is an alliance, but one of the key requirements of the US government is that the airlines in the alliance continue to compete with each other. They are partners, but they are competitors. And to compare your situation to one where there was a mechanical issue is not a true comparison.

The BK has nothing really to do with it. These airlines have certain codeshares, but in the end, they are two different companies with different owners (stockholders).
 
dtwclipper
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Freedom747 (Reply 29):
Airlines aren't responsible for having to rebook for free because of YOUR meeting ran late, bud. God, I hated that saying from business jerks whenever they'd show up at the gates. TUFF!

I didn't ask to be re booked for free, however I do buy tickets that allow for changes.

I asked to be re booked and ran into some confusion, it has since been clarified, nor did I become irate with NW or DL.

I came here to ask "why" and what the rules were about, so I could understand the policy in the long run.


.....and remember "bud" it's "business jerks" like myself that pay full fare and are the bread and butter of the industry, thank you very much.

The point of my thread was to ask a question not to be berated by half of you.
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TVNWZ
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 31):
.....and remember "bud" it's "business jerks" like myself that pay full fare and are the bread and butter of the industry, thank you very much.

Spot On! I buy refundable and often first class tickets. We are their BEST customers. I don't think it is too much to ask to be treated that way. How would "bud" want to be treated if he spent 100-K a year out of his pocket to fly on business? Bud?
 
B777-700
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 19):
What does this mean then?

When I pay $800 every week to fly between DTW and LEX or CVG, I think they can stretch the rules, don't you?

You paid $800 for a refundable tkt. You didn't buy a tkt that lets you jump from airline to airline whenever you like.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 20):
Come on, lets all just take a deep breath. He was just searching for logic behind an experience he had on a flight that didn't make sense; isn't that part of what this forum is for, to get questions answered for which we won't know the answer?

And I explained it to him...a few times...and he still argued with me.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):
As others have said, DL is the least integrated into the rest of Skyteam, othe than AF. There are major issues between DL/CO and DL/NW.

You've been dead on PSU (fellow Penn State fan here Big grin ) Except for this point, Delta is the MOST integrated member of SkyTeam. Is that what you meant?  Wink

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 25):
As a travel agent. It would seem like NW should have put you on the DL flight. However, we have to remember that both airlines are in bankreputsy. And they are not about to give any of their money to anyone. So you got caught inbetween them. And as they are in this bankreputsy, they are not going to work to hard on seamlining their services.

Has nothing to do with it.
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Virginia
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:30 pm

Dtwclipper,

Next time go to the ticketdesk of the airline involved, srry to say, but a lot of people have no idea where they are talking about.

NW could have endorsed it towards DL and if there was a difference in fare you had to pay the difference.
But if NW does not want to endorsed it, you have to buy a new tkt.

For your next trip compare the 2 fares of NW & DL in B or Y (you guys have to many fares), and ask if ticket can be endorsed in cases like these.

Mostly these tkts are more expensive but maybe more convenient for you.

Virginia
 
dtwclipper
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:47 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 33):
Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 19):
What does this mean then?

When I pay $800 every week to fly between DTW and LEX or CVG, I think they can stretch the rules, don't you?

You paid $800 for a refundable tkt. You didn't buy a tkt that lets you jump from airline to airline whenever you like.

You are actually wrong here, but i'm not going to get into it.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 33):

And I explained it to him...a few times...and he still argued with me.

No, I'm not arguing with you, never have never will, ain't worth battling wits with the unarmed!
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:34 am

Depends how look at it:

DL is the most integrated into Skyteam on the European side, however they are the least with their American counterparts.

NW/CO/KLM do a good job within each other, but are very poor with DL and the other Skyteam airlines. On the other hand, DL is the best with AF and all of the other Skyteam partners, but as said poor with the relationship with NW/CO/KLM.
 
B777-700
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RE: DL/NW Skyteam Question?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 35):
You are actually wrong here, but i'm not going to get into it.

No, I'm not. Get your refund, then buy a tkt on Delta, just like NW, and everyone here told you.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 35):
No, I'm not arguing with you, never have never will, ain't worth battling wits with the unarmed!

That makes absolutly no sense. Whatever dude. You're just taking a piss now. I'm sorry you're too ignorant to understand.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.