JoKeR
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Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:41 am

Hi all,

I'm baaack! Any news for BEG? I can share the following rumors with you:

- Wizzair was again declined landing rights for BEG-LTN and BEG-BUD
- JU to open HAM
- Centavia about to announce scheduled flights into Switzerland, Gemany, Austria...
- Aviogenex has sold all its 727's - only one aircraft left!

Anything else?

[Edited 2006-09-29 20:42:35]
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ba757gla
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:44 am

any chance of EZY coming to town?
 
JoKeR
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:48 am

No news as yet but everything is possible after the "open skies" agreement is fully implemented next year.
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Aleksandar
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:43 am

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):
Aviogenex has sold all its 727's - only one aircraft left!

 cry   banghead   cry   banghead   cry  That's how I feel about it.

Quoting Ba757gla (Reply 1):
any chance of EZY coming to town?

I wish there are chances, but if Wizzair was declined......
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RJ100
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:46 am

Centavia plans to take up BEG to BSL on October 21st already.

Operating every Monday, Thursday and Saturday.

Flight numbers will be CNA620 and CNA621. Departs BEG 14:00 arrives BSL 16:10, departs BSL 17:40 arrives BEG 19:50.

Flights will be operated as charter flights in the beginning.

Regards,
RJ100
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Aleksandar
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 4):

That's good. In fact, that's really good.
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LTU932
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):
JU to open HAM

Good news to see JU serve my home town. Just one question: is this a brandnew service or has JU operated to HAM before?
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 2):
No news as yet but everything is possible after the "open skies" agreement is fully implemented next year.

1st Jan?

FR has apparently expressed an interest in flying there.

Incidentally, I still read things about Banja Luka being announced this Oct. for flights next Mar.

[Edited 2006-09-29 21:56:04]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Evan767
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:52 am

Did I not hear something a while back about DL starting service to Belgrade??
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Aleksandar
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
is this a brandnew service or has JU operated to HAM before?

They flew seasonal charters as far as I remember.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 7):
1st Jan?

FR has apparently expressed an interest in flying there.

Yep, I think as of 1st Jan.
Yep, but they seemed more interested in INI than BEG. Smaller airport, probably cheaper, close to other markets.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 8):
Did I not hear something a while back about DL starting service to Belgrade??

I wish you were right.  sigh 
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Pe@rson
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 9):
Yep, but they seemed more interested in INI than BEG. Smaller airport, probably cheaper, close to other markets.

Where do you get that from? Reports in local newspapers apparently say BEG. So, who knows?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Aleksandar
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 10):
Where do you get that from? Reports in local newspapers apparently say BEG. So, who knows?

1. Local news that often say Ryanair is interested in INI (I told you some of the reasons, Bulgaria and FYR Macedonia are within 150 km from the airport, maybe even less.).
2. My judgement Big grin BEG is much bigger, if traffic grows as it has, it might suffer from congestion and that is something FR doesn't like (I guess it is one of the reasons they are not at BUD). I'm not sure about fares here, but I know the fuel is more expensive than in major European airports for example. Also, other fees are not cheap here. Of course, I'd love to see FR in Belgrade, but I'm just saying why would Ryanair put INI at first place and BEG as their second choice.
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Pe@rson
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 11):
BEG is much bigger, if traffic grows as it has, it might suffer from congestion and that is something FR doesn't like (I guess it is one of the reasons they are not at BUD). I'm not sure about fares here, but I know the fuel is more expensive than in major European airports for example. Also, other fees are not cheap here. Of course, I'd love to see FR in Belgrade, but I'm just saying why would Ryanair put INI at first place and BEG as their second choice.

That is true. However, exceptions do occur, although they’re almost exclusively from DUB – an airport from which it adopts a slightly modified strategy. This altered strategy sees it accepting normally unaccepted factors – delays, major slot restrictions, probably unfavourable deals – in order for it to strengthen still further its presence from that airport. Indeed, it is evidently the market leader on DUB-LON-DUB. Take LGW, for example. Its 738s are rarely on the ground for less than 1 hour, thereby meaning its punctuality is affected. But, yes, you are very right: its normal strategy is to serve airports which offer excellent deals; which offer great growth potential; which have no or few slot problems; and which can facilitate its quick turnarounds. That does sound rather like INI, but if it can secure an excellent deal with BEG, who knows?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Aleksandar
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
That does sound rather like INI, but if it can secure an excellent deal with BEG, who knows?

Yes, you're right. Like I've said, I'd love to see FR at both airports. Personally, and this is my very own idea and nothing scientific, INI and FR could make a good deal. There is a potential, especially on flights to Germany and UK during winter season.
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Pe@rson
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:51 am

Which destinations in Germany? Obviously only HHN and BRE are presently hubs. Would there be sufficient demand from INI to both - year-round? What if it did VV flights? E.g. HHN-INI-somewhere-INI-HHN? What other routes, bar to certain airports in the UK during the winter, would be sufficiently demanded? Would there be sufficient year-round demand, probably based on VFR traffic, from, e.g., London? Due to EIN's proximity to DUS/CGN/etc, would there be sufficient demand there? I am a bit dubious, really.

[Edited 2006-09-29 22:52:32]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Aleksandar
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:25 am

Perhaps you know that there is a big Serbian community in Germany. They are mainly workers who often come to homeland. Between HHN and BRE, I believe HHN would be better choice. You're right, EIN could be fine for the area of DUS/CGN. At the moment, they usually travel by bus or their own cars, but many would be attracted with Ryanair offers, especially the younger generations (second Serbian generation in Germany).

As for UK, there is a big question mark about year round services from INI. To be honest, I doubt it would work fine, but who knows. With passengers from Bulgaria and FYR Macedonia, there might be a demand better than I expect. I mentioned winter season simply because last season Thomspon flew to INI weekly charters. Demand was very good because INI is used by tourists who go to Kopaonik. At first, Thompson used 733, but few times there was an upgrade to 752.

For British tourists, Kopaonik is very interesting and cheap comparing it with Slovenia or Austria. With LCC services, their holiday could be even cheaper and thus more passengers might come here. So, there is a potential profit both for local tourist industry and LCC (let's say Ryaniar).

I hope my answer clarified things a bit. Of course, there is nothing scientific in this and all I wrote were just my own observations.
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JoKeR
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:15 am

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 3):
I wish there are chances, but if Wizzair was declined......

Yes, but don't forget that there is something fishy 'bout Hungaro-Serbian air services agreement, or so I've been told.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 6):
is this a brandnew service or has JU operated to HAM before?

JU has flown to HAM on a number of occasions before and failed every time.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 8):
Did I not hear something a while back about DL starting service to Belgrade??

Well DL has inherited Pan Am's rights to BEG and was supposed to have flown JFK-BEG with an A313 in the early '90s. We all know nothing happened there. As far as "now" is concerned, I wish this was the case but I strongly doubt it.
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LTU932
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 16):
JU has flown to HAM on a number of occasions before and failed every time.

Let's hope they don't fail this time.  Wink
 
JoKeR
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 17):
Let's hope they don't fail this time.

This time 'round it looks as though they will fail in entirety. JAT is on life support...
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Evan767
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 16):
Well DL has inherited Pan Am's rights to BEG and was supposed to have flown JFK-BEG with an A313 in the early '90s. We all know nothing happened there. As far as "now" is concerned, I wish this was the case but I strongly doubt it.

Hmm... maybe I was reading about Bucharest?
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Aleksandar
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RE: Belgrade News

Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 16):
Yes, but don't forget that there is something fishy 'bout Hungaro-Serbian air services agreement, or so I've been told.

Have you ever been in Malev's office in Belgrade and counted the number of employees there?

Fishy thing is that Malev is JAT's competition even now, without direct flight. Just think of possibilities if BEG-BUD service is re-introduced? Another blow to JAT.

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 18):
JAT is on life support...

Switch off the machine  devil 

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 16):
Well DL has inherited Pan Am's rights to BEG and was supposed to have flown JFK-BEG with an A313 in the early '90s.

Yep and they had great brochures in their Belgrade office. Still have some of their timetables and other stuff.
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gilesdavies
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RE: Belgrade News

Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):
- Wizzair was again declined landing rights for BEG-LTN and BEG-BUD

The Yugoslav/Serbian government are stupid for turning down these routes and letting a LCC enter the market.

Even now the country has resumed stabilty and peace for a number of years, the country has been relatively cut off from the prosperity and investment other countries in this regon have experienced.

Routes like this is not going to make an earth shattering difference but would atleast be a move in the right direction, attract a wode arket to the country.

Since Wizz Air launched their LTN-ZAG service this route has been thriving and increased from three times weekly to daily.
 
Aleksandar
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RE: Belgrade News

Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
Since Wizz Air launched their LTN-ZAG service this route has been thriving and increased from three times weekly to daily.

Yes, this route is successful, but there is one extremely important thing you missed. Citizens of Croatia don't need UK visa, while citizens of Serbia need it and that can affect the load factor on such route. As for BEG-BUD flights, I think I have explained the reasons. JAT is simply terrified that more passengers would go via BUD and believe me, even now, you can see minibuses at Ferihegy carrying people from Belgrade to BUD
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JoKeR
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RE: Belgrade News

Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
The Yugoslav/Serbian government are stupid for turning down these routes and letting a LCC enter the market.

Although I am completely against protectorism and a strong critic of Serbian Government's stance on JAT, I have to disagree with you on this one. Serbia has allowed SAS Snowflake to operate into BEG as well as Germanwings, plus, it has signed the EU "Open Skies" Agreement which will be fully implemented in 2007.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
Even now the country has resumed stabilty and peace for a number of years, the country has been relatively cut off from the prosperity and investment other countries in this regon have experienced.

And granting landing rights will affect this how??? This is rubbish - Serbia has "caught-up" pretty well over the past six years - don't forget, we were "isolated" for a decade!
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Aleksandar
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RE: Belgrade News

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 23):
we were "isolated" for a decade!

It is getting slightly off topic, but it needs to be said. In a way we still are isolated. JoKeR, let's say you don't have a valid Schenghen or UK visa in your passport. In that situation, what does good offer from some LCC for August 7th (for example) mean to you? Absolutely nothing. So, as long as Serbia is isolated in that way, LCC can't expect good results on this market and traditional carriers, with JAT leading them, can manipulate the market the way they want it.
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vlada
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RE: Belgrade News

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 24):
JoKeR, let's say you don't have a valid Schenghen or UK visa in your passport. In that situation, what does good offer from some LCC for August 7th (for example) mean to you? Absolutely nothing.

On the other hand, we have all seen that JAT flights to CDG, LHR, FRA... are allways full, regardless of the visa problems. Alitalia also has some good loads on their MXP route. So, judging just from that, a LCC carrier from BEG (or INI) could expect decent loads, depending on destinations it would serve in Europe. Or am I wrong? I presume a lot of people now flying JAT to FRA would use a LCC to HHN.
I guess maybe we'll just have to wait and see how do the Germanwings will cope with their CGN line.
Also, somebody here mentioned that jet fuel at BEG is more expensive than in most of Europe. This is the same in all of Serbia, due to the fact that there's only one supplier, the Oil Industry of Serbia  Angry

Regards,
Vlada
 
JoKeR
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RE: Belgrade News

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting Vlada (Reply 25):
I guess maybe we'll just have to wait and see how do the Germanwings will cope with their CGN line.

I believe that their loads are quite good!
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Aleksandar
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RE: Belgrade News

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting Vlada (Reply 25):
On the other hand, we have all seen that JAT flights to CDG, LHR, FRA... are allways full, regardless of the visa problems.

Yes, but also a decent percentage(or even majority) of those passengers are the transit ones using hubs on its way to North America and elsewhere.

Quoting Vlada (Reply 25):
I guess maybe we'll just have to wait and see how do the Germanwings will cope with their CGN line.

I think that they are doing fine. Prices are very good. Last night I checked some prices for December and found a decent offer for December of 75 Euros RT with taxes included.
The problem I've noticed is that Germanwings is doing almost nothing to advertise themselves on Serbian market and it could easily be repeated mistake of Snowflake.
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JoKeR
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RE: Belgrade News

Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:47 am

Some news from Centavia's website... looks like they are getting ready to commence scheduled services...

International Air Transport Association (IATA) has assigned Centavia a two-letter designator code - 7N. With immediate effect, all Centavia flight numbers will be preceded by the new 7N code.
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Aleksandar
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RE: Belgrade News

Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:29 pm

OK, here are some news:

Germanwings will add another flight on CGN-BEG-CGN service as of April '07 which will increase frequency to four weekly flights. My inner voice tells me that it is not final and it wouldn't surprise me to see daily service next year.

Managements of airports in Belgrade and Nis had a meeting and stronger presence of LCCs was announced.
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