PITrules
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Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:29 am

From the Oct issue of ATW:

Virgin Blue has an RFP with Boeing and Airbus for five 777-300ERs or A340-600s but may have to look at Asian destinations if US access is limited. That may alter the type of aircraft selected.

My money is on the 777, due to greater cockpit commonality and system logic with the 737NG, as well as being more fuel efficient.
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ClassicLover
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:50 am

Can you get 777s for 2008 delivery at the moment? I think that is when they're expected to international...

For some reason, my gut is telling me they'll go A340-600 on this...
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
ebbuk
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:54 am

Interesting. Whatever it buys it will be a B plane for sure
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:03 am

Considering just how many A346's Virgin Atlantic has ordered from Airbus they might get a sweet deal on some more. However that's not to say that Boeing isn't going to be pulling out all the stops to get this one.

I'm sure that if the 773ER wasn't available till later, Boeing would include an interim aircraft, perhaps the 744 in order to sweeten its own deal to them.

..time will tell.

Dan Smile
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Gemuser
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 1):
For some reason, my gut is telling me they'll go A340-600 on this...

So is mine! It is based on ETOPS certification. I just can't CASA granting ETOPS 180 (which is required to fly beyond HNL) straight up, to a new long haul operator. It just does not fit with their passed actions, but who knows.

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jfk777
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:46 am

Virgin Blue has 737, Virgin America A320's, Virgin Atlantic has Boeing and Airbus so this doesn't tell us with any certainty which way they will go. I think the 773ER will be better for a 14 hour flight to California.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 5):
So is mine! It is based on ETOPS certification. I just can't CASA granting ETOPS 180 (which is required to fly beyond HNL) straight up, to a new long haul operator.

An airline can be rewarded ETOPS certification by demonstrating the necessary maintenance standards on their existing fleet. In short, it can easily be worked around and Boeing can help the airline in that regard.

ETOPS procedures have proven themselves to be considerably more economical in the long-run. Throw in the superior economics of the 777LR, long-term value of the 777 family, and Boeing has easily won the merit aspects of the RFP.

Airbus' top advantage are delivery slots, especially with EK trying to avoid delivery of their A346-HGW.
 
777ER
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:22 am

DJ is ordering 6x B773ERs and will have options for upto 6x B772LRs. DJ is also ordering more aircraft for Domestic expansion, but this won't be announced for a few months
 
Gemuser
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
An airline can be rewarded ETOPS certification by demonstrating the necessary maintenance standards on their existing fleet. In short, it can easily be worked around and Boeing can help the airline in that regard.

There is more to it than just maintance standards. There is also operational standards. Some standards default to exprience. Any airworthiness certification has an element of subjectivness in it, and I'll bet you anything CASAs collective gut is telling them not to go to ETOPS180 immediately for DJ.

Of course, these days technical considerations are not as important as they used to be, so they could be over ridden by the higher ups under political pressure. We will see in due course.


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zeke
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:03 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
An airline can be rewarded ETOPS certification by demonstrating the necessary maintenance standards on their existing fleet. In short, it can easily be worked around and Boeing can help the airline in that regard.

They have had issues with this in the past, the VB ETOPS approval in 2003 on the 737 fleet was withdrawn because of problems with their maintenance system, in particular the scheduling and recording of maintenance.

They will not order any aircraft until they have traffic rights to a daily flight, my understanding is they only presently have 4 times weekly approval.

In terms of fleet commonality for crewing, they dont necessarily want any. They do not what their existing crews on this aircraft, it would mean a blanket increase across the board which would raise their cost base significantly or the core 737 operations. They are presently trying to get the EMB aircraft crewing rates sorted which are going to be lower than existing rates.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
antares
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:16 pm

I doubt whether any favors will be done to Virgin Blue, and they probably don't need any, other than certainty of government policy on traffic rights, which is the same situation for all carriers.

Pacific Blue has always had ETOPS if my information is correct. The paper work stuff up only affected Virgin Blue, and after it was fixed, they decided they didn't need domestic ETOPS anyhow. I have heard it said that Jetstar came to same conclusion for its A320s. I'm sure it won't impede Jetstar getting ETOPS for the A330-200s about to fly to Honolulu, otherwise, they aren't likely to fly there at all.

I think the persistent indications of interest in 777-200LRs suggests something more than replicating routes flown by Qantas. Couldn't this jet do Perth-US west coast and Perth-London? Or Auckland-New York?

Antares
 
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zeke
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:54 pm

Quoting Antares (Reply 11):
Pacific Blue has always had ETOPS if my information is correct. The paper work stuff up only affected Virgin Blue, and after it was fixed, they decided they didn't need domestic ETOPS anyhow. I have heard it said that Jetstar came to same conclusion for its A320s. I'm sure it won't impede Jetstar getting ETOPS for the A330-200s about to fly to Honolulu, otherwise, they aren't likely to fly there at all.

I think what your saying about PacBlu is correct, they are under NZ regs, same with Jetconnect.

I understood the JQ had ETOPS to do trans-tasman flights, the non-ETOPS route is a little longer.

JQ I understand will be using existing maintenance practices for the 330s, and the 330s are already approved under the QF AOC. I would see JQ building on the QF approval. Both their existing 320 approval and the QF 330 approval is under CASA.

The problem I understood at VB was a little more than a paperwork stuff up, I was told it required a replacement of the computerised maintenance system. VB effectively subcontract their maintenance out to facilities in BNE and MEL, as its not "in house" I understand that some information is not recorded centrally.

I have also heard a suggestion that these flights could be done by PacBlu NZ, with Virgin Blue subcontracting the flights to Pacific Blue Australia (a subsidiary of VB), and then subcontracting it to Pacific Blue NZ. It would keep the aircraft off the books and make future Australian EBA negotiations easier. It would also mean they would need New Zealand rather than Australian ETOPS approval which I understand is easier to obtain, and the 777 is already on the New Zealand register.
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FiveMileFinal
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:05 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
As promised...here is one of my A330 videos... 

Damn, he got the hell on up outta there, didn't he? Couldn't have been more than 10 seconds to rotation.

I forget not every plane Airbus makes takes off like the A343.  duck  Big grin
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zeke
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting FiveMileFinal (Reply 13):
I forget not every plane Airbus makes takes off like the A343.

Airbuses generally have had better runway performance than their Boeing equivalents, i.e. 320 is better than 734, the 343 is about the same as a 763ER, the 380 uses about the same runway as a 762 on takeoff, and when the landed it 120t over it MLW, it used less distance than a 744.

People such as yourself make the assumption that the reduced thrust, or derated thrust takeoff that they use as standard procedure is representative of the real aircraft performance.

Come to HKG on a day with windshear, you will see everyone doing TOGA takeoffs, where some representative comparison could be made.
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ebbuk
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:39 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
As promised...here is one of my A330 videos... 

Lovely. RR engine isn' it? Whenever I am in a 330/340 I just stare at the wing tip, first at take off as it raises in the air prior to rotate and then throughout the flight as it dances in the air. Beautiful, I can't get enough. MORE PLEASE

Why do these machines fascinate me so much?
 
Thorben
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:50 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):
DJ is ordering 6x B773ERs and will have options for upto 6x B772LRs. DJ is also ordering more aircraft for Domestic expansion, but this won't be announced for a few months

Can you tell why you know all this?
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ZKNBX
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:17 pm

Yes I also want to know how it is that it is already known that Dj are going Boeing over Airbus. Do tell..
 
brightcedars
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:26 pm

I'm wondering what kind of service is to be expected from a low-cost airline applied to long haul? Wouldn't surprise me if there was a new brand appearing in the Virgin group of airlines i.e. Virgin Pacific to slightly differenciate the products from the start.

As far as fleet is concerned. The A340-600 is a good aircraft, not a top seller, not the best of both, but more readily available, with greater group experience with the type and toothing issues now part of history, and without the challenge of ETOPS across the Pacific.

I'm sure a sweet deal will deliver us some beautiful Airbus quads!
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ZKNBX
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:50 pm

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 18):
I'm sure a sweet deal will deliver us some beautiful Airbus quads!

Given the timeframe and the group experience, would expect A346 over B77W for transpacific. The statement about changing a/c type should the routes to the USA not be approved suggests things are at a more tentative stage than initially implied in this post.
 
antares
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:53 pm

BrightCedars,

I think there is a misunderstanding about Virgin Blue and some other LCCs as being like Ryanair is claimed to be. It may be low cost, and it is single cabin, but it isn't anywhere near as unpleasant to fly with as some so called full service carriers. There is good leg room, but awful food you buy off the trolley, as distinct from tighter seats on some Qantas flights and awful food they give away.

Qantas is somewhat better than that if you fly to Perth, it makes a big effort on those routes but shorter flights are a bit of a disappointment food wise. I still fly Qantas business class a lot because I buy my own flights but I also use Virgin Blue and so does most of the tribe, when not on REX or Qantaslink turbines. Our in house travel policy for partners paid for by the business from which I am largely just a retired unpaid ghost who walks and turns up for advisory slug fests is economy on domestic and trans Tasman. Our people do not have to fly Jetstar. If we made that compulsory they'd all probably buy their own tickets on someone else, or resign.

The plot, so we are told, is for the long haul version of Virgin Blue is for innovative economy whatever that means, and a premium business class of at least the same standard as VS. They have specifically ruled out charging for meals.

I think Jetstar International will find itself up against the low cost base of the major quality Asian carriers, and have to reconsider its product offering because the established competitors will have roomier cabins, better IFE, and complimentary meals and drinks, and if history is any guide, they will make sure they have more than enough seats at equal to or less than Jestar International to deprive them on the volume of customers they seek, and for as long as it takes.

The Jetstar people aren't stupid either. They will do whatever it takes to be a relevant competitor, including change the offerings where necessary. Competition is a good thing.

Antares
 
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autothrust
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:57 pm

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 18):

I'm sure a sweet deal will deliver us some beautiful Airbus quads!

Yes that would be great they are really great looking in this Colorscheme.

I wonder if DJ would order the A340 wouldnt it be the "new" HGW version?
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ZKNBX
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:05 pm

indeed it will be HGW and Airbus will offer them a winning price thanks to VS being a major customer - be nice to see a 77W in DJ colours but I don't rate boeing's chances
 
monteycarlos
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):
DJ is ordering 6x B773ERs and will have options for upto 6x B772LRs. DJ is also ordering more aircraft for Domestic expansion, but this won't be announced for a few months

You seem pretty confident on this so I will trust you. I won't ask you to reveal your sources but I will ask what makes you so confident? As others have said, there is a long wait for 777's these days... do DJ have the time?

Quoting ZKNBX (Reply 22):
indeed it will be HGW and Airbus will offer them a winning price thanks to VS being a major customer - be nice to see a 77W in DJ colours but I don't rate boeing's chances

You sound confident the other way? What would make DJ go for the A346? Price, time, commanlity with the Virgin Atlantic name? Not sure any of those will sway DJ too much away from 777's.
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pblaketas
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:30 pm

And Virgin Blue is also getting some Embraer 170/190s for regional routes isn't it? Not sure if this has already been discussed here.
 
deltajet757
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting PITrules (Thread starter):
My money is on the 777, due to greater cockpit commonality and system logic with the 737NG, as well as being more fuel efficient.

Definitely. If Virgin Blue chooses the A346's then they have to waste time training their crews for the Airbuses. But if they choose 773's then they can put them into service faster.

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AA777223
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:56 am

My bet is Mr. Branson will choose the airbuses for this task. He seems to like them better. I really don't know though.
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Leskova
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting DeltaJet757 (Reply 24):
If Virgin Blue chooses the A346's then they have to waste time training their crews for the Airbuses. But if they choose 773's then they can put them into service faster.

I wasn't aware that the B737NG and the B773ER offer much commonality that would allow a reduction in transition time - since you seem to know, how long is the transition between the B737NG and the B773ER and the A346 respectively?

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 25):
My bet is Mr. Branson will choose the airbuses for this task. He seems to like them better. I really don't know though.

Branson holds far less than half the shares, I think something around 25% - so I don't think that his personal preference (if, for that much, he indeed preferred Airbusses) carries that much weight in this decision; at least not if the majority owner of DJ things otherwise.
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Qatara340
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting DeltaJet757 (Reply 24):
Definitely. If Virgin Blue chooses the A346's then they have to waste time training their crews for the Airbuses. But if they choose 773's then they can put them into service faster.

While this is somewhat true, I don't think this is a major issue. Probably, the pilots for the A346 wont be the same as their 737's. Personally, i think the A346 is the best plane here. Its a beautiful aircraft (hence my nick!)
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flydreamliner
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 1):
For some reason, my gut is telling me they'll go A340-600 on this...

Because that's what all the airlines have been doing lately...... except not.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 8):
and I'll bet you anything CASAs collective gut is telling them not to go to ETOPS180 immediately for DJ.

I'm glad our regulators make decisions based on their gut.

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 27):
i think the A346 is the best plane here. Its a beautiful aircraft (hence my nick!)

The best plane here? Well, it has fewer seat, more engines, and burns more gas, so it must be. Mabye if it came with a free gas card from Airbus?
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 28):
Because that's what all the airlines have been doing lately...... except not.

I should have said... my gut says they will go with Airbus, which is weird because I prefer Boeing... depends when they can get 777s really...
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
beech19
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting Antares (Reply 10):
Couldn't this jet do Perth-US west coast and Perth-London? Or Auckland-New York?

Yes the 777-200LR has a 9420nm range.
According to Great Circle Mapper Perth - Seattle (farthest west coast city from Perth) is 8027nm so that is well within range.
Perth - London is 7929nm so again... well within range EVEN flying west with a nasty headwind.
Auckland - New York is 7671nm... all well within range. Those would all be great routes too.  Smile
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antares
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:17 am

Gotta get some sleep however I'm very surprised so few people (Leskova excepted) understand that Branson has stuff all to do with Virgin Blue these days, and hasn't for quite some time.

Furthermore, Singapore Airlines owns nearly half of Virgin Atlantic and shows no sign whatsoever of ever wanting to have anything to do with Virgin Blue and is very unlikely to approve any useful arrangement to get VS A340-600s over to Virgin Blue. If it were to get early A340-600s it would be because Airbus has reached an agreement with a customer to relinquish the delivery spots, rather than the other way around with the jets being on sold. I think I read somewhere that Airbus and Boeing go out of their way to prevent this happening as a matter of policy, otherwise you could see for example SQ buy 300 versions of a jet for the sole purpose of getting a lower unit price and then depriving the manufacturer of their profit margins, and effectively taking pricing control away from Seattle or Toulouse and putting it in Singapore.

I'm pretty surprised at times at the lack of business knowledge out there.

Antares
 
2wingtips
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 29):
I should have said... my gut says they will go with Airbus, which is weird because I prefer Boeing... depends when they can get 777s really

They can get 777s in their desired timeframe(Q1 2008). Don't know if they are to be bought/leased.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:36 am

Between all the different leasing companies, and Boeing's willingness to work things out to bring a new airline into their longhaul family, I'd think getting 777s wouldn't be an issue. That said, Airbus is willing to price A340s pretty nicely at this point. With fuel where it's at though, they'd have to price it awfully low to compensate for the greater efficiency of the 777 family.
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jacobin777
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting Antares (Reply 31):
. If it were to get early A340-600s it would be because Airbus has reached an agreement with a customer to relinquish the delivery spots

Who's taking them?  duck  stirthepot 
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Hamlet69
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 26):
I wasn't aware that the B737NG and the B773ER offer much commonality that would allow a reduction in transition time

FWIW, the 737NG and 777 have a lot more commonality than most A.netters give Boeing credit for. While the Airbus CCQ gets a lot of well-deserved respect here, most don't realize that on average the transition from 737NG to 777 only takes 1-2 more days than the transition from A32X to A330/340.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 25):
My bet is Mr. Branson will choose the airbuses for this task.

He can choose whatever he wants. DJ will order whatever works best for them, as Branson will have little if any say in the matter.


Personally, we've heard too much about DJ craving 787's to ignore. If they need capacity now, I'd imagine we will see a deal for some 773ERs now, with 787's whenever they can get slots.

Regards,

Hamlet69
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willyj
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 35):
Personally, we've heard too much about DJ craving 787's to ignore. If they need capacity now, I'd imagine we will see a deal for some 773ERs now, with 787's whenever they can get slots.

Hasn't this entire thread been saying how they can't get 77Ws NOW, but that the 346s are more available.
 
2wingtips
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 35):
Personally, we've heard too much about DJ craving 787's to ignore. If they need capacity now, I'd imagine we will see a deal for some 773ERs now, with 787's whenever they can get slots.

That sounds on the money to me. Long term, the 789 looks like the best option for DJ IMO.

Quoting Willyj (Reply 36):
Hasn't this entire thread been saying how they can't get 77Ws NOW, but that the 346s are more available.

And I just said they can get 773ERs when they want them; Q1 2008.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 28):
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 8):
and I'll bet you anything CASAs collective gut is telling them not to go to ETOPS180 immediately for DJ.

I'm glad our regulators make decisions based on their gut.

They most certianly do! In the real world aviation safety is not a black & white thing, it is a mass of conflicting requirements and practical compromises that that combination of professional knowledge & exprience, often referred to as 'gut feel' is an extremely important part of any airworthiness process.

In ETOPS certification, which is itself a mass of airworthiness and operational requirements that professionsl 'gut feel' IS very important.

Gemuser
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antares
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:50 am

Jacobin777,

You misunderstand me. I don't think they are going to get A346s. I was simply explaining that getting any from VS is somewhat implausible, unless 49 % share holder SQ decides to agree. And remember, SQ wants to fly the Australia-US route too.

Antares
 
jacobin777
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:37 pm

Quoting Antares (Reply 39):
You misunderstand me. I don't think they are going to get A346s. I was simply explaining that getting any from VS is somewhat implausible, unless 49 % share holder SQ decides to agree. And remember, SQ wants to fly the Australia-US route too.

Ahh...I see.. checkmark ....makes sense...I dont' think there will be any influence from SRB regarding the DJ order.. no 
"Up the Irons!"
 
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:42 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 15):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):
DJ is ordering 6x B773ERs and will have options for upto 6x B772LRs. DJ is also ordering more aircraft for Domestic expansion, but this won't be announced for a few months

Can you tell why you know all this?

A very reliable mate has informed me. My mate has been correct about previous orders. I've been informed of some other orders but wont talk about those. My lips are sealed on those in this thread.

Quoting Pblaketas (Reply 23):
And Virgin Blue is also getting some Embraer 170/190s for regional routes isn't it?

Thats the order thats been put off for a few months

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 25):
My bet is Mr. Branson will choose the airbuses for this task.

Mr Branson has got nothing to do with DJs order

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 32):
They can get 777s in their desired timeframe(Q1 2008). Don't know if they are to be bought/leased.

At this stage leased

[Edited 2006-10-02 07:44:30]
 
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:06 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 41):
Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 32):
They can get 777s in their desired timeframe(Q1 2008). Don't know if they are to be bought/leased.

At this stage leased

OK thanks. Interim lease and then 788/9s to follow from somewhere b/w 2010/2012?
 
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:16 pm

Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 42):
OK thanks. Interim lease and then 788/9s to follow from somewhere b/w 2010/2012?

I've heard nothing on 787s
 
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:11 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 41):
A very reliable mate has informed me. My mate has been correct about previous orders. I've been informed of some other orders but wont talk about those. My lips are sealed on those in this thread.

Allright, we'll see how reliable your source is this time. Sounds like a good deal for Boeing, and T7s with all that red would look very interesting.
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fuffla
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:12 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 7):
DJ is ordering 6x B773ERs and will have options for upto 6x B772LRs. DJ is also ordering more aircraft for Domestic expansion, but this won't be announced for a few months

This information is from a friend:

"But the guy on airliners.net is speaking through his hat. I set the long haul team up and sit on the steering committee and no such decision about equipment has been made."

This is from a friend who was speaking to a DJ manager on a forum about Virgin Blue's Frequent Flyer program - velocity

[Edited 2006-10-02 12:16:06]

[Edited 2006-10-02 12:18:02]
 
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:32 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 44):

Now thats what I'm talking about (B773 pic), but change the Virginblue markings to FlyPacificBlue.com markings.

Quoting Fuffla (Reply 45):

What I've found "As to timing of the order, should be prior to year end and may partly involve leasing"
 
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zeke
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:41 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 46):
Now thats what I'm talking about (B773 pic), but change the Virginblue markings to FlyPacificBlue.com markings.

Had suspected that was coming, see my comments relating to NZ CAA ETOPS and crewing above.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 46):
What I've found "As to timing of the order, should be prior to year end and may partly involve leasing"

They will not order anything unless they have approval for daily flights. Has that approval come ? Pointless buying the aircraft for 4 times weekly service.
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Gemuser
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:54 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 11):
I have also heard a suggestion that these flights could be done by PacBlu NZ, with Virgin Blue subcontracting the flights to Pacific Blue Australia (a subsidiary of VB), and then subcontracting it to Pacific Blue NZ. It would keep the aircraft off the books and make future Australian EBA negotiations easier. It would also mean they would need New Zealand rather than Australian ETOPS approval which I understand is easier to obtain, and the 777 is already on the New Zealand register.

Just saw this due to your referrence in reply47.

I doubt this would be allowed under current Oz rules, except on a concessional (ie, limited) basis. As I understand it DJ could not operate on Oz traffic rights under NZ regulations. Just one, out of many, is the number of FAs. Oz=1/36, NZ=1/50 pax.

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zeke
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RE: Virgin Blue: 5 777-300ER Or A340-600

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:11 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 48):
I doubt this would be allowed under current Oz rules, except on a concessional (ie, limited) basis.

My understanding its is exactly how some of the south pacific flights are happening now. VB subcontracts these flights out to Pacific Blue.

I think the current open skies agreement between Australia and New Zealand would make such an arrangement legal as long as they went to NZ during some point of the flight.
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