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NW To Announce Aircraft Order Soon

Sun Jul 02, 2000 6:06 pm

Just got back from a trip where I was seated next to a senior NW captain on the MSP-ATL. We got to talking and he told me that NW is gonna make an announcement on the replacement for the 742 within the month.

I will spare y'all the details of the conversation, but the gist of it was that the 772 is the likely choice to replace the 742 on secondary Japan markets and on intra-Asia flights. The 340 is "highly unlikely" and the 330 has "raised a few concerns".

Finally, NW is actually looking to EXPAND its DC-10 fleet. It is trying to buy up old DC-10s being retired by other airlines for a pittance sum and either renovating them for a few more years, or using them for parts.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
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American 767
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RE: NW To Announce Aircraft Order Soon

Sun Jul 02, 2000 8:22 pm

That's nice to hear. The 777-200IGW would make sense, considering it would the the 747-100/200 replacement, I'm sure they would choose the PW-4000 engine for the 777. They already have the 747-400 so the 777 would complement the long haul fleet. Yes, sure they will keep the DC-10's for a while unlike other carriers which are getting rid of those, but they should also think of a replacement. In my opinion, although they've been thinking of the A330, the 767-400 would be perfect since they already have a fleet of 757's.
This is what the Northwest fleet should be in ten years from now:
Domestic fleet: Airbus A319/A320 and Boeing 757
Long haul fleet transatlantic: B767-400
Long haul fleet transpacific and intra-Asia: B747-400 and 777

Regards,

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium
Ben Soriano
 
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RE: NW To Announce Aircraft Order Soon

Mon Jul 03, 2000 12:08 am

That makes sense. I hav known for a while that they are building up the DC10 fleet, which is smart in a sense I cannot explain, but I know in my head it is smart for one freason or another. I think they will replace the -200s with -400s. Or they probably will keep the -200s for a long time, considering they are considered relitivley new in NWA's fleet (I have nothing against NWA). The 777 is an odd choice because they seem to be going Airbus, or maybe not. I guess only time will tell. (I'm cvery excited being a DTW resident).

Jack
 
AmtrakGuy
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RE: NW To Announce Aircraft Order Soon

Mon Jul 03, 2000 1:07 am

What about MD11? I believe some airlines are getting (or planning) rid of it? You think NWA should get them?

Dave
 
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sammyk
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RE: NW To Announce Aircraft Order Soon - Jack

Mon Jul 03, 2000 1:21 am

Jack,

Why do you think its an odd choice to choose the 777? They are going Airbus, yes, but only on the narrowbody side, similar to United. Not like they could take advantage of any commonality between A330/340 and A32X cockpits since unions probably wont allow it.

Also only the A330 has the option of PW engines, whereas no A340 is available with PW engines.

Sammy
 
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RayChuang
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RE: NW To Announce Aircraft Order Soon

Mon Jul 03, 2000 2:00 am

Actually, the 777-200IGW might be a good choice for NW because it has the range to fly MSP or DTW directly to NRT or SEL easily.

If it weren't for the engine choice issue, NW would be better served by buying the 777-300 Long Range version, because this new version of the 777 would have about the same carrying capacity as the 747-200, cruise just about as fast (the cruising speed will be around 0.85 Mach), but have quite a bit lower fuel burn per passenger mile. Alas, Pratt & Whitney is not producing any engines in the 110,000 to 115,000 lb. thrust range; only GE (with the GE90-115B) and Rolls-Royce (with a growth version of the Trent 800) will work on the 777-300 LR's.
 
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Sammyk

Mon Jul 03, 2000 8:29 am

Now, you made me change my mind. You are right, they will probably end up with a fleet identical to United's. The engine thing is a biggy. Thanks for pointing that out.

Jack
 
flyf15
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MD-11

Mon Jul 03, 2000 8:56 am

I have heard some rumors that when KLM recieves its replacements for the MD-11s, they will go to Northwest, replacing the DC-10s on the longest of their routes.
 
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RE: MD-11

Mon Jul 03, 2000 9:02 am

I've heard something similar to that.. KLM MD-11's are going to get bought by NWA.

Jason
 
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Ray Chuang

Mon Jul 03, 2000 9:53 am

Rolls Royce does not and will not offer an engine on the 777LR. The Lr would not make sense. To operate such a heavy aircraft on these routes would defeat the economics of the plane. The regular 777ER would fit the need perfectly.
 
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RayChuang
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Huh?

Mon Jul 03, 2000 10:08 am

Hold it right there.

I just checked Rolls-Royce's web page (www.rolls-royce.com) and they said that the Trent 800 (rated between 94,000 to 104,000 lb. thrust) is aimed specifically at all versions of the 777-including what was originally called the 777-200X/300X versions.

Because the Trent 800 has been run at 104,000 lb. thrust already, all they need are a few improvements and the Trent 800 could be uprated to 115,000 thrust or more, which will match the GE GE90-1xx versions now planned for the 777 Long Range models.

This is why I expect Boeing and Rolls-Royce to make an announcement at least before the end of 2000 that the uprated Trent 800 rated at 110,000 to 115,000 lb. thrust will become the second engine choice for the 777 LR models.

Besides, the economics of the 777 LR models are obvious: the 777-300 LR has carrying capacity almost identical to the 747 "Classics" but has almost the range of the 747-400 and way, way lower fuel burn per passenger mile.
 
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sammyk
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RE: NW To Announce Aircraft Order Soon

Mon Jul 03, 2000 10:20 am

The original 777X and todays 777X are not exactly the same plane. At the time 104k was supposedly good enough. A lot more work was needed to bring the Trent 800 upto 115k, and it could not be done in the timeframe Boeing was looking for. Also, the GE90 supposedly still has growth left in it possibly upto 130k.

Sammy
 
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RR Will Not Have An Engine For 777X

Mon Jul 03, 2000 10:20 am

Rolls Royce stopped development of this engine in September of 1999.

From wire reports:



Sep 13, 1999

Rolls-Royce has stopped work on the Trent 8115 engine it planned to
build for the proposed Boeing 777X.

The British engine maker has apparently accepted that General
Electric Co, which has secured an exclusivity deal with Boeing, is
likely to become the sole power supplier for the big twin-jet.

"It (the Trent 8115) is on the backburner, but the Trent program is
moving forward," according to a spokesman for the company.

The Trent 8115 was to have been derived from the existing Trent 800
group of engines that compete with GE and Pratt & Whitney to power
current-model 777s.

Boeing said in July that GE alone had been selected to build the
power plant for the B-777X, because not enough planes would be built
to justify more than one engine type with the required thrust of 510
kilonewtons.

Rolls-Royce had kept working on its engine in the hope that airlines
would force Boeing to change its mind and offer a choice of
powerplants. The fear now must be that airlines might now prefer to
standardize on GE for current-model 777s as well.

GE's exclusivity contract is reported to expire if Boeing has not gained
launch customers for the 777X by December. Boeing has said it
expects to sell about 500 of the new model.



The GE deal is EXCLUSIVE--EX-CLU-SIVE. Meaning GE only. GE has paid possibly upwards of a billion dollars to help develop this aircraft. That money assures that RR will NOT be on the plane.
 
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sammyk
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RE: NW To Announce Aircraft Order Soon

Mon Jul 03, 2000 10:45 am

GE supposedly paid around $500 million towards the development of the 777X, plus whatever it takes to develop the higher thrust GE90s. However, there are some exceptions in the contract, I dont know the details, but its things like "If there arent X amount of orders by so and so date, the exclusivety is void" But hey, who knows.

Sammy
 
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iahcsr
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RE: NW To Announce Aircraft Order Soon

Tue Jul 04, 2000 2:11 am

If NW wants more old DC-10's, a very old -30 just arrived at Mohave four days ago. They are welcome to it. (For all I know, they may have already bought/leased it!)
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
na
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RE: NW To Announce Aircraft Order Soon

Tue Jul 04, 2000 2:21 am

Recently I read in an interview with NWs CEO that they will make a joint decision with partner KLM which aircraft type to buy in future.

Still I think, that NW and Qantas are the hottest favourites to become lauch customers of a 747-X-version (stretch or not stretch).
 
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RE: MD-11

Tue Jul 04, 2000 5:39 am

Doesn't KLM already have a deal with FedEx for the MD-11's ?
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
BA
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RE: NW To Announce Aircraft Order Soon

Tue Jul 04, 2000 2:51 pm

Boeing will probably offer Pratt & Whitney and Rolls-Royce engines to power the 777X in the future due to demand. Many airlines are currently sticking with the 777ER due to the fact that they are offered with the PW and RR engines while the 777X will only be powered by the GE90 engines. Although Boeing is in talks with Rolls-Royce and Pratt & Whitney to have 777X powered by them. Boeing believes they will get more airlines interests this way. These days airlines will only stick with a particular aircraft engine manufacturer. For example British Airways would choose the RR engine to power there 777s any day. BA was VERY disapointed with the GE90 powered 777 which they recieved in there first few orders, then they switched those orders to RR powered 777s.

Regards,
BA
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran

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