CaliforniaMate
Topic Author
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:21 pm

Garuda And The MD-11

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:24 pm

Wikipedia says that Garuda once had 12(!) MD-11s. What happened? Why did GA get rid of them so soon without a real replacement (they only have 6 A333). Did they just not have enough routes that require the aircraft? And on a sidenote, now that GA has stopped flying lots of their longhaul flights, what have they been using the 744 for?
 
Magyarorszag
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RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:10 pm

Quoting CaliforniaMate (Thread starter):

To begin with, Wikipedia data aren't always very reliable. GA have operated itself or leased 18 MD-11s over the years. They received between 1991 and 1993 six new MD-11 on lease from GPA (Guiness Peat Aviation leasing company from Ireland) which went bust later (correct me if wrong). GA disposed of them between 1996 and 1998. From what I remember, there were problems with the contract linking the airline with GPA. GA later (1996/97) got three MD-11ER new to replace the first that had left the fleet. These MD-11ER didn't lasted very long as the Asian crisis struck the region. It is at this time that GA decided to stop serving Europe and reduce its fleet. The three MD-11ER were returned to Boeing in 1998.

Outside of these nine MD-11s used for regular services, GA also leased one from Finnair as well as 4 MD-11, 2 MD-11CF & 2 MD-11ER on lease from WO during Hadj pilgrim flights.
 
mandala499
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RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:36 am

The 744s are being used to fly Mid-East routes and also some Asia Pacific routes on a rotation basis.

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:06 am

The MD11s were mainly used to serve the extensive European network that Garuda once served and which included destinations like Amsterdam, London, Frankfurt, Zurich, Paris, Rome, Madrid, Berlin, Athens, Vienna, and Brussels.

Starting in 1996, Garuda has gradually dismantled that European network as the MD11s left the fleet. As from 2000, Garuda operated 9 weekly services to Europe with B744s, serving only AMS, LGW and FRA. Later, LGW and FRA were given up and AMS was the last remaining European station, until also that route was given up in late 2004.

As for the 3 B744 frames which are currently in the active fleet, those aircraft currently operate the airlines Middle Eastern network - JED, RUH and DMM - and the daily CGK-NRT-DPS-CGK rotation. The B744s can also often be spotted at HKG.
 
crownvic
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RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:24 pm

In the final MD-11 days at Garuda, they also operated on the LAX-DPS-CGK route.
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 4):
In the final MD-11 days at Garuda, they also operated on the LAX-DPS-CGK route

Wasnt the routing CGK-DPS-XXX-HNL-LAX?

Other former Garuda MD-11 routes included:

CGK-DPS-SYD
CGK-SYD
CGK-DPS-MEL
CGK-DPS-NRT
CGK-NRT
CGK-BKK-FCO
CGK-BKK-ZRH
CGK-HKG
CGK-DPS-HKG

CGK-XXX-LGW
CGK-XXX-CDG
CGK-XXX-FRA

[Edited 2006-10-03 06:42:11]
I Still Call Australia Home
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:53 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 5):
Wasnt the routing CGK-DPS-XXX-HNL-LAX?

It was CGK-DPS-BIK-HNL-LAX, BIK being Biak Island in Indonesia, just off the main Papua Island. At different times the BIK was skipped and sometimes the flight went nonstop between DPS and HNL.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 5):
CGK-DPS-SYD
CGK-SYD
CGK-DPS-MEL
CGK-DPS-NRT
CGK-NRT
CGK-BKK-FCO
CGK-BKK-ZRH
CGK-HKG
CGK-DPS-HKG

CGK-XXX-LGW
CGK-XXX-CDG
CGK-XXX-FRA

Most of the European routes you are mentioning were combined into multi stop milk runs, with many flights stopping over in AUH. Sometimes these flights were also operated with B742 or B744.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4928
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RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:32 pm

The GA Md11's also used to fly to AKL aswell from i think late 1996 till early 1998.
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:25 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
It was CGK-DPS-BIK-HNL-LAX, BIK being Biak Island in Indonesia, just off the main Papua Island. At different times the BIK was skipped and sometimes the flight went nonstop between DPS and HNL.

HB-IWC,

As soon as the MD-11s were introduced on the LAX routes, the stop in
BIK was eliminated. Initially they were routed CGK/DPS/HNL/LAX/HNL/DPS/CGK but that was changed to CGK/HNL/LAX northbound, with the stop in DPS still in effect on the southbound leg. Both the DC10-30 and the B742Combi stopped enroute at BIK but not the MD-11's
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
Magyarorszag
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RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:33 pm

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 1):
From what I remember, there were problems with the contract linking the airline with GPA.

In fact, the problems weren't between GPA and Garuda, but between McDonnell Douglas and GPA. According to some articles from Flight International in 1993, there was a "long-running between leasing company GPA and MDC over MD-11s for Garuda that has escalated into a fully fledged legal battle, following an exchange of lawsuits between the two companies."

"Douglas Aircraft has filed a suit against GPA for $550 millioon for failing to complete five MD-11 orders. GPA has filed a counter suit claiming that the three MD-11s received to date are 3,000kg overweight and uneconomical to operate."

Finally, GA took delivery of three aircraft directly from MDC, which had arranged an alternative financing, rather than going through the joint-venture it had set-up with GPA, namely GPA Aero Citra.

The dispute between MDC and GPA about the Garuda MD-11s was apparently only one of three.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5866
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RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:17 pm

Garuda had a great history with the MD-11, I saw them at LAX. The thought of going LAX-HNL-BAli in one though is another matter, it close to 22 hours. Garuda would have had better luck going to New York via Europe since most of the US population lives in the eastern USA.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6459
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:25 pm

Interesting info on GPA... I heard that the A330s were initially leased through GPA or GPA AeroCitra... Any info on those?

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
svenvdm
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2000 1:23 am

RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:50 pm

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 1):
To begin with, Wikipedia data aren't always very reliable.

"The free online resource Wikipedia is about as accurate on science as the Encyclopedia Britannica, a study shows."

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm
 
LH459
Posts: 793
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RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10):
Garuda would have had better luck going to New York via Europe since most of the US population lives in the eastern USA.

...but most of the demand for flights to Southeast Asia is from the West Coast. GA would have failed miserably in NYC. As it was, their LA flights served mostly served ethnic Indonesians (the main populations of which are in the LA area) and package tourists going to Bali.
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: Garuda And The MD-11

Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 10):
Garuda would have had better luck going to New York via Europe since most of the US population lives in the eastern USA.

JFK777

There was a plan at one time to start service to JFK, but it never was materialized. Los Angeles has the largest population of Indonesians in the world outside of Indonesia and Holland, and that was part of the decision to start service there rather than JFK.
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain