CaliforniaMate
Topic Author
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:21 pm

Issues With KIX?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:34 pm

Why is KIX losing all these services lately? It doesnt seem able for any airline to sustain a service from KIX, and most notably, to destinations in the US. Osaka is a pretty big city, and with all the restrictions with NRT, one would assume KIX would get more international traffic. Is there really that little demand for travel into the Osaka area? Seems kind of a waste to build such a nice (but sinking) airport, only to have it underused.
 
Sinlock
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:55 am

RE: Issues With KIX?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:58 pm

I can point to one possible reason from a limited point of view. Theft.... When US was operating our daily flight KIX-FLL "Bin Shopping" was a big problem. We'd find bags wide open all the time, electronics, liquor, and perfume were hot items.

An other thing was KIX has a lot of local traffic with VERY Heavy baggage. Many times we had to leave cargo on the ramp.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8558
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Issues With KIX?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:34 pm

When was KIX-FLL ever operated? I find it very hard to believe that Japanese baggage handlers participate in any kind of theft.....

Anyway, there's a number of reasons KIX traffic has been falling in recent years. High landing fees, poor city access from the airport and overall economic decline in the Kansai region for the last decade are among some of the chief reasons. Others include limited domestic connections and the recent opening of the new airport here in Nagoya where the economy is growing and airport operating costs are a lot lower.

It's a shame because KIX is actually a lovely facility to use.

Incidentally, Osaka is more than a "pretty big city". There's over 16,000,000 in the metropolitan area.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Sinlock
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:55 am

RE: Issues With KIX?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:01 pm

Sorry, My mistake. It says KIX but I read it as KIN.  blockhead 
 
warren747sp
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:51 am

RE: Issues With KIX?

Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:07 pm

Don't they have some of the highest landing charges at KIX? That maybe a primary reason why carriers stay away.
747SP
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: Issues With KIX?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting Warren747sp (Reply 4):
Don't they have some of the highest landing charges at KIX?

They were recently reduced in the face of very low landing charges at NGO. NRT also lowered certain charges due to the competition from NGO. Even NGO was told by IATA to lower its charges so it could compete with ICN (never understood that one).

KIX's biggest problem is the lack of Domestic connections. ITM and Kobe give more convenient domestic connections than KIX.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2566
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Issues With KIX?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:36 pm

The issue with KIX is that it has the highest landing fees in the world (if not overtaken by YYZ). Though this is significant hurdle, many airlines are increasing flights from KIX while some are being dropped.

Case in point is AY which had zero flights a few years ago but will have daily MD-11 flights come next summer. QR is slowly increasing its weekly flights and the next round of Japan-Chinese aviation bilaterals will certainly see additional frequencies on both sides.

It seems most of the dropped long-haul flights are US-Japan flights though there are some European services that have terminated over the years. It's this bad news that seems to overshadow some of the good news that regional flights particularly to China that are continually increasing.

Even the number of domestic flights are increasing as ITM cut the number of large jet slots slightly, so the number of flights going to Okinawa and CTS have increased.

Come August 2 next year, the second runway will open and slot restrictions (if there was any to begin with) will, in all effect, disappear.
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: Issues With KIX?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 6):
It seems most of the dropped long-haul flights are US-Japan flights though there are some European services that have terminated over the years. It's this bad news that seems to overshadow some of the good news that regional flights particularly to China that are continually increasing.

Flights to China and Taiwan have been on the rise in the past few years. Flights to Korea have also gone up. It is the US flights that have been cut. AA cut their flight to DFW and JL to LAX. Who else cut flights? That isn't a huge loss. But that means it is a limited market from KIX to North America.

JL will be back. It seems that president wants to rebuild the LAX "hub" after the 787s come online. (we shall see)

AA...they will be back at KIX and NGO but first they better figure out which hub will be their Asian Gateway and give good domestic and through to South America connections.

UA is doing fine with ORD-KIX, HNL-KIX, and SFO-KIX

NW is doing fine with DTW-KIX-TPE, HNL-KIX (going to a 744), GUM-KIX and SPN-KIX. (NW used to have MSP-KIX...cut in 1990s)

AC has a flight from YVR-KIX that seems to do okay.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 6):
QR is slowly increasing its weekly flights

Did EK recently upgrade their plane or look at added frequencies?

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 6):
Come August 2 next year, the second runway will open and slot restrictions (if there was any to begin with) will, in all effect, disappear.

That was funny.  rotfl  I stood out at KIX observation in the middle of the afternoon for 30 minutes with no planes landing. 24 hour airport right? Landed there once around 21:00 (NW was 3 hours late leaving DTW). The place was EMPTY.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2566
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Issues With KIX?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:38 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
AA...they will be back at KIX and NGO

I get the feeling AA will not return until they get a smaller equipment like the 788 or 789, whenever that happens next decade.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
Did EK recently upgrade their plane or look at added frequencies?

It's been the A345 for the past couple of years. There was a rumor that the 773ER will be placed on the DXB-KIX route but the A345 will stay.
FYI, DXB-NGO was a 773ER for the month of September but it will go to A345 daily for the time being and winter schedule.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 7):
Landed there once around 21:00 (NW was 3 hours late leaving DTW). The place was EMPTY.

At that hour, ALL Japanese airports are empty.
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: Issues With KIX?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:07 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 8):
At that hour, ALL Japanese airports are empty.

Then what is the deal with slot restrictions. NGO and KIX are both 24 hour airports. KIX will have a nice big second runway. Yet after a certain time...EMPTY. NRT is getting ready to close down so it is understandable but I cannot understand KIX.

NGO's latest flight I think is EK's at 23:00. Before that its NW's SPN flight at 21:05 and then before that CS to GUM at 20:25.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: Issues With KIX?

Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:49 pm

Quoting CaliforniaMate (Thread starter):
Why is KIX losing all these services lately? It doesnt seem able for any airline to sustain a service from KIX

AY is increasing to a daily flight to HEL next summer.  Smile
AY and ANA rock!