MAH4546
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Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:50 am

Frontier Airlines applied with DOT earlier today to begin service from San Jose del Cabo to both San Jose, California and Sacramento.

Docket:
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=416287&docketid=25993

Frontier would join Mexicana as the second airline on SMF-SJD, but would be the first on SJC-SJD.
a.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:17 pm

And I didn't think there was any good reason to check the DOT website today.  Smile

Thnaks for that, MAH, but I am a bit confused. The application says there are two authorities available for SJC-SJD. Does that mean after - and if - Frontier is approved? Otherwise, who has the first authority?

Or is SFO included with SJC for Mexican bilateral purposes?

cheers

mariner
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FATFlyer
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:39 pm

Dang, they forgot about us in Fresno.  Wink

But seriously Mariner, SJC-SJD authority is currently held by Alaska.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 2):
Dang, they forgot about us in Fresno.  

I was half expecting FAT-SJD. Or FAT to somewhere in Mexico.  Smile

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 2):
But seriously Mariner, SJC-SJD authority is currently held by Alaska.

I thought that, FATFlyer, but I was checking Travelocity over the Christmas period and didn't find any SJC-SJD as a non-stop. Maybe they're booked out?

However, for Frontier it makes a tad more sense of the fact that there is no SFO-LAX connection to LAX-SJD on a Saturday.

Now at least south Bay Area folk get the service to SJD on Saturdays - although not Christmas.

 Smile

mariner
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airplaneboy
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:33 pm

Great news!  Smile

Mariner- your wish has come true (partially anyway). If approved, your much touted SMF service will become a reality! (still awaiting the FAT application  Wink).

If approved, SJD will become F9's second largest p2p Mexican destination, after CUN. F9's Mexico service will stand with the following city pairs pending approval of this proposed service:

DEN-CUN, CZM, ZIH, ACA, GDL, PVR, MZT, SJD
CUN-DEN, BNA, IND, STL, MCI, SLC, SAN
SJD-DEN, MCI, LAX, SMF, SJC
PVR-DEN, MCI

This will give Frontier a total of 19 distinct markets to/from Mexico, of which 11 are point to point routes that do not touch DEN.

http://www.frontierairlines.com/fron...ook/routes-timetables/route-map.do

 Smile
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:49 pm

Good news it seems for F9 but will they ever start any new point-to-point routes outside of Mexico? It seems like they are building up steam in some key cities like SFO, MCI & LAX and the next logical move would be to start some point-to-point routes especially when the seasonal business tails down on the mexico routes.

Is F9 going to go it alone forever or will they ever partner up with the likes of FL or AS?
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juventus
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 4):
If approved, SJD will become F9's second largest p2p Mexican destination, after CUN. F9's Mexico service will stand with the following city pairs pending approval of this proposed service:

DEN-CUN, CZM, ZIH, ACA, GDL, PVR, MZT, SJD
CUN-DEN, BNA, IND, STL, MCI, SLC, SAN
SJD-DEN, MCI, LAX, SMF, SJC
PVR-DEN, MCI

Very impressive. Frontier is definetly betting on the tourist sector, I'm sure DEN-MTY and DEN-MEX would workout for them if they gave it a go.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 3):
I thought that, FATFlyer, but I was checking Travelocity over the Christmas period and didn't find any SJC-SJD as a non-stop. Maybe they're booked out?

Currently not flown. It used to be seasonal Oct to April. I'm not sure when it was last operated or what the current plans are.

FYI, here is the list of all authorities as of Nov 2005. Of course there has been a real flurry of activity this year so the document is missing a number of authorities but this list always serves as a good start.
By Country
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/intav/country.pdf
By Airline
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/intav/carrier.pdf
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
Is F9 going to go it alone forever

Forever is a long time, but I think for the foreseeable future - unless they have a trick up their sleeve.

Management keeps talking code share with someone, but it hasn't happened yet.

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
will they ever partner up with the likes of FL or AS?

I don't think it would be Alaska/Horizon, who clearly don't want to play with Frontier anymore.

Given these applications, perhaps Alaska feels that Frontier is getting too much California?

Quoting Juventus (Reply 6):
I'm sure DEN-MTY and DEN-MEX would workout for them if they gave it a go.

I'd add DEN-CUU to that. The only one that seems pretty sure is MEX. Joe Hodas talked about it in a news article.

But he said a curious thing - not necessarily from DEN.  Smile

mariner
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MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting Juventus (Reply 6):
DEN-MEX would workout for them if they gave it a go.

DEN/MEX has worked for no one so far, so I'd highly doubt that F9 would give that a shot, particularly without a Spanish website.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:00 am

There's a fun typo in the application:

"...between SJC and SJO..." (first line, page 3).

SJO - Costa Rica? Well, it is being considered, so maybe it is the shape of things to come:

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_4016660

Costa Rica has "a lot of tourist appeal," said Frontier spokesman Joe Hodas.

 

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
I'd highly doubt that F9 would give that a shot,

Which would explain the Hodas comment in the article:

"Certainly there's an opportunity there," though not necessarily from Denver, Hodas said.

But if not from DEN, then from where?

I don't think LAX-MEX is available, and although MCI is begging for MEX service (in every Frontier application that involves MCI and Mexico), I don't think that would work any more than a couple of times a week, at most.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
particularly without a Spanish website.

Spanish is available on the website, but, oddly, not until step #2 of the booking process. So I guess they may be working on it.

mariner

[Edited 2006-10-03 22:00:55]
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mikesairways
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:23 am

It looks like someone will use SJC's gate A1A (the NRT gate) after all!
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
 
belizexp
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:24 am

Bravo F9 way to go I wish you all the best on p2p flying.
Belize my home sweet home...
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:38 am

Quoting Mikesairways (Reply 11):
It looks like someone will use SJC's gate A1A (the NRT gate) after all!

FYI, Mexicana is moving into A1B at SJC on Wednesday.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/15667962.htm
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as739x
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:17 am

Alaska dropped SJC-SJD and doesn't hold the route authority. Not to mention more then 1 carrier can fly this market, even if Alaska decided to return to the market (which will most likely not happen).

ASLAX
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FATFlyer
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:17 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 14):
Alaska dropped SJC-SJD and doesn't hold the route authority.

I didn't know that, when did they lose the authority?

F9 seems to think in their filing that someone else already holds SJC-SJD and AS is the only one I can find.

As of November 2005 AS still had it according to this link:
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/intav/carrier.pdf

And AS had applied for another 5 year renewal in this filing back in December 2004
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf90/306768_web.pdf
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
DesertAir
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:28 am

I find it interesting that Frontier initiates service on routes in which they have very little feed. Alaska runs their Mexico flights from cities that have a lot of connecting possibility. The key for Frontier will be to market their service well. The Sacramento area should be able to sustain this type of service with some seasonal adjustments perhaps.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:37 am

Great - F9 will trash yields in SJD while trying once again to establish a foothold in California.  Sad

I hope they get this experiment out of their system - literally - sooner than later.
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 16):
I find it interesting that Frontier initiates service on routes in which they have very little feed.

Everyone has to start somewhere.

I think we are watching either the implentation of a Mexico strategy by Frontier - or a California strategy.

If it is the latter, then SFO-LAX already feeds into LAX-SJD. Who knows what may follow?

If it is a Mexico strategy then I guess the statements made by Frontier about the possibility of a Mexican subsidiary may be more than hints.

Who knows? But it ain't dull.  Smile

mariner
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FATFlyer
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:45 am

I see this more as F9 replicating what they have been building at Cancun.

They already operate to SJD from Denver and Kansas City, along with the LAX flight.

I wonder what other cities will see applications for SJD. I would suspect they will be scattered around the West, not just California.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
as739x
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:49 am

FATFlyer: You could be right. All I know is that we have pulled out of the market to concentrate on SFO-Mexico. SJC-SJD flights never did well and many people from the SJC area still traveled up to SFO. Maybe AS has filed just to hold on to the authority and would be able to do so and long as a second carrier (other then F9) decided to start this route. The, if I understand correctly, we would have to restart the flight to hang on to the route authority. Good luck F9, my position is if AS, a known carrier in the region can't make it work, F9 will have some trouble.

ASLAX
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Kohflot
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:19 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
I think we are watching either the implentation of a Mexico strategy by Frontier - or a California strategy.

Or maybe we're watching F9 go on the offensive towards a slightly bigger airline in its neighborhood. Can't take on United.. can't take on Southwest.. can't take on America West/US Airways.. so how bout picking a fight with Alaska? One of two things will happen - either F9 will be successful and establish itself up and down the west coast, or they'll be a nuisance and effectively force AS to buy them. In the grand scheme of things, neither would be a particularly horrible outcome for the F9 folks.

Perhaps this also explains the interesting changing dynamic between the respective holding companies.
Ask why..
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 21):
Or maybe we're watching F9 go on the offensive towards a slightly bigger airline in its neighborhood.

I guess that may be what I meant by a "California strategy". Although I don't think Frontier was looking for a fight, any more than Southwest was looking for a fight when they entered DEN. Mike Boyd thinks otherwise, of course.

But it might - stress "might" - explain why Horizon did not bid on the RFP for the new Jet Express contract?

I don't know.

mariner
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FATFlyer
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RE: Frontier Applies For SMF-SJD; SJC-SJD

Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:58 am

Interesting possibilities.

More route authority filings will indicate a Mexico strategy. So we we will see what happens.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain

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