LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:50 am

Although Gol 1907, Brazilian aviation keep growing and new routes has been announced on the last 2 days:

1) VARIG will resume their services to Bogota 4 times per week, using a Boeing 767-300ER.

Wed / Fri / Sundays
RG8942 GRU 1340 BOG 1750 1850 CCS 2130

RG 8942/RG8943 BOG 1850 CCS 2130 2240 GRU 0630

On Saturdays, Varig will run a dedicated flight to BOG

RG8942 GRU 1720 BOG 2130
RG8943 BOG 2230 GRU 0615

Due to this ANAC will not grant more extra flights to AV.

2) TAM will add a new frequency between Brazil and Argentina effective October 18. This new flight will connect Belo Horizonte (it's the first Tam international flight out of CNF) and Buenos Aires, with a stop at Rio de Janeiro International Airport (GIG).

JJ8016 CNF 1200 GIG 1300 1340 EZE 1545 - Daily
JJ8017 EZE 1215 GIG 1600 1700 CNF 1800 - Daily

Flights will be operated with A32A (as Tam call their 12C 144Y configuration). This is their second daily flight between Rio and Buenos Aires. Due to this, a single flight CNF-GRU-CNF will use A32A (with C seats but without business class service).

Tam also confirm effective Oct 18, the A332 will be not used anymore on GRU-EZE and will be routed as JJ3748/JJ3749 GRU-MAO with 205Y (C will be sold as Y also).


Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Argentina
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RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:58 pm

Oi Felipe

Is the Argentina-Brazil Bilateral much underused or almost fully used by Brazilian airlines?

I think that from the Argentinian side, it is not very well used:

AR: EZE-GRU-EZE 4 daily
AR: EZE-GIG-EZE 3 daily
AR: EZE-POA-EZE or EZE-MVD-POA-MVD-EZE 1 daily
AR: EZE-FLN-EZE 1 weekly (2 weekly in high season)

Can you compare with the frequencies from Brazil side?

Obrigado
 
hardiwv
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RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:16 pm

Quoting Argentina (Reply 1):
Can you compare with the frequencies from Brazil side?

Dont forget airlines using 5th freedom rights: LH GRU-EZE, BA GRU-EZE, NM FOR-EZE.

Rgs
 
OHLHD
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RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:56 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
205Y

They have only 205 seats?
 
jfk777
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RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:50 pm

Where did Varifg get the 767, I thought they had no planes left ? Any Md-11 left at RG?
 
MEA-707
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RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:04 pm

can anyone explain the reported transfer of Varig to VRG ? Will planes get an according livery? Is it just an accounting trick to start clean sheet. Any news on VRG is welcome.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
777jaah
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RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:25 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Due to this ANAC will not grant more extra flights to AV.

That's bad news for AV, now that they'll get some competition on the route again. LFs for AV in the route were around 95% since RG left the route. I guess pax will be the ones who will benefit the most from this.

I know GOL is having tough moments, but a few weeks ago I read on this forum that they would start GRU-MAO-BOG. Do you think they'll keep their plans for this or now that they're one frame short (I seriously mean no disrespect for everyone involved in this very tragic event this question) from their fleet they'll drop the idea? Did ANAC ever authorized the route?? I know GOL has to focused on 1907 first, but their business has to go on, and from what I've heard from the them, they'll keep doing it in a very professional way.

Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Argentina (Reply 1):
Is the Argentina-Brazil Bilateral much underused or almost fully used by Brazilian airlines?

Tam is using all they can fly:

4 GRU-EZE-GRU (1 with leg to GIG) daily
1 GIG-EZE-GIG daily
1 CNF-GIG-EZE-GIG-CNF daily
1 BSB-POA-EZE-POA-EZE daily
1 FLN-EZE-FLN daily (seasonal)

Varig keep availability (can fly 6x daily)

1 GRU-EZE-GRU
1 GIG-EZE-GIG

Gol will receive additional frequencies next month:

Today:
3 GIG-GRU-EZE-GRU-GIG daily
1 POA-EZE-POA-EZE-POA daily
1 FLN-EZE-FLN daily

Soon:
GIG-CFB-EZE-CFB-GIG 2x weekly
GIG-EZE-GIG 5x weekly

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 2):
Dont forget airlines using 5th freedom rights: LH GRU-EZE, BA GRU-EZE, NM FOR-EZE.

In this case, they just use their rights on Spain-Brazil, UK-Brazil and Germany-Brazil bilateral agreements. Not necessary to use frequencies as Brazil or even Argentina.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 3):
They have only 205 seats?

Sorry, let me explain better: The A332 is sold as 205Y on GRU-MAO because TAM sells C seats (30) as Y (but they accommodate their top tier customers, Fidelidade Vermelha first on such seats). Their A332 GE configuration is 7F 30C 175Y.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 4):
Where did Varifg get the 767, I thought they had no planes left ? Any Md-11 left at RG?

They keep two under a charter agreement with EuroAtlantic (PP-VTC and VTE). They still keep at least three 763 (VOE, VOJ and VOI) waiting for negotiations with lessors.
Concerning to M11, they are using 3 and there are at least 7 at GIG also waiting for negotiations, rumors that TAM is looking for 4 from Boeing Aircraft itself.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 5):
can anyone explain the reported transfer of Varig to VRG ? Will planes get an according livery? Is it just an accounting trick to start clean sheet. Any news on VRG is welcome

VRG Airlines bought some Varig assets (brand and routes). Debits will remain with Varig S.A.
VRG will keep RG livery and is using 15 planes (3 M11 12 733) to run routes out of SAO (mainly) to Rio, Buenos Aires, Porto Alegre, Curitiba, Brasilia, Salvador, Recife, Fortaleza, Frankfurt, Caracas and Manaus. Bogota will be resumed today, and there are some rumors about another international destination up to the end of this month.
You're right, VRG is a new company, with a beautiful balance sheet, no debits, with a strong shareholder.
If you need more info, let me know.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 6):
I know GOL is having tough moments, but a few weeks ago I read on this forum that they would start GRU-MAO-BOG. Do you think they'll keep their plans for this or now that they're one frame short (I seriously mean no disrespect for everyone involved in this very tragic event this question) from their fleet they'll drop the idea? Did ANAC ever authorized the route??

Probably we can see a little delay of 2 or 3 weeks because they are in need of one plane, but they will land at BOG very soon! They didn't need to be authorized by ANAC as they are using Fortaleza Agreement (flights out of a city like MAO, closer to the frontier, does not use the bilateral).

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 6):
I know GOL has to focused on 1907 first, but their business has to go on, and from what I've heard from the them, they'll keep doing it in a very professional way.

This is right. Yesterday Sao Paulo stock exchange goes down and Gol shares... rise 1,8% !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
donzilasse
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:06 am

RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:02 am

Lipe,

Last night when I flew out of GIG on AA904 I thought that it was fewer RG planes there. I saw one MD11 and one T7 and some 737,s but probably no more than 10 planes or so. Have they moved some or didn't I see correctly. In the dark you pass by quickly during take-off where they are parked.

Lasse
 
Neo
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Tam is using all they can fly:

4 GRU-EZE-GRU (1 with leg to GIG) daily
1 GIG-EZE-GIG daily
1 CNF-GIG-EZE-GIG-CNF daily
1 BSB-POA-EZE-POA-EZE daily
1 FLN-EZE-FLN daily (seasonal)

You forgot about:

JJ

1 GRU-CWB-EZE-CWB-GRU

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Gol will receive additional frequencies next month:

Today:
3 GIG-GRU-EZE-GRU-GIG daily
1 POA-EZE-POA-EZE-POA daily
1 FLN-EZE-FLN daily

Correction:

1 FLN-POA-EZE-SCL-EZE-POA-FLN

Rgs,

Neo
 
Summa767
Posts: 1753
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
VARIG will resume their services to Bogota 4 times per week, using a Boeing 767-300ER

It is reported in the colombian press today -and so scheduled in amadeus- that this service will be daily as of 11th October.

Good news for travellers between the two countries.
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting Donzilasse (Reply 8):
Last night when I flew out of GIG on AA904 I thought that it was fewer RG planes there

I visited GIG and saw 3 772, some M11 and a lot of 733. They could be in the cargo area of the airport, i will check this!

Quoting Neo (Reply 9):
GRU-CWB-EZE-CWB-GRU

Thanks for the correction Neo!

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 10):
It is reported in the colombian press today -and so scheduled in amadeus- that this service will be daily as of 11th October.

Very true, AV use to be the king of the route during some time. Now Varig is back and i'm sure with the service they are showing on domestic routes, no doubt they will bring back all their customers and will took some from Avianca.
Is really amazing how their service improved and they are generally flying on-time.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
Very true, AV use to be the king of the route during some time. Now Varig is back and i'm sure with the service they are showing on domestic routes, no doubt they will bring back all their customers and will took some from Avianca.

It won't be that easy. Avianca still has the advantage of offering daily flights, and nonstop both ways. That definitely seems much more attractive for business travelers.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:55 am

Thanks for the info Felipe. I have one question... will RG exercise 5th freedom between CCS and BOG? How does the CCS schedule look now with the triangular route with BOG?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3650
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:55 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
1) VARIG will resume their services to Bogota 4 times per week, using a Boeing 767-300ER

About time!!!!! Though it will be via CCS 3x per week, at least we didn´t get stuck with a crappy 737 stopping in MAO with no biz class service (no offense, but G3 is not made for this kinds of routes)

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 11):
Now Varig is back and i'm sure with the service they are showing on domestic routes, no doubt they will bring back all their customers and will took some from Avianca.
Is really amazing how their service improved and they are generally flying on-time.

Well, AV has very good service, offers wodebodies as well, very good punctuality, and flies daily and non-stop. It will be hard for RG if they don´t start flying non-stop in the next months.

 Smile Smile Cheers RG!
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 14):
Though it will be via CCS 3x per week



Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 14):
AV has very good service, offers wodebodies as well, very good punctuality, and flies daily and non-stop

That stop in CCS will be a major down point for biz travellers. Tourist wouldn't mind that much, but still, i'd rather pay afew more bucks and have a nonstop flight, that will probably save me 1.5 hrs of flying plus time in CCS.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 14):
It will be hard for RG if they don´t start flying non-stop in the next months.

Besides, I guess not too many seats available for BOG sharing the same ac with CCS. The market between Colombia and Brazil deserves a flight as much as the Venezuela Brazil market, hopefully RG will figure this outand dedicate an ac to both cities.

Cheers

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
OHLHD
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RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):

Ok thanks, that makes sense of course.
 
incitatus
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RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:43 am

I read recently that Varig is about to announce another international destination. Which one would it be?
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Summa767
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RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:12 am

I wonder if Varig and AV

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 13):
Thanks for the info Felipe. I have one question... will RG exercise 5th freedom between CCS and BOG? How does the CCS schedule look now with the triangular route with BOG?

As far as I understand, no traffic is permitted between CCS-BOG-CCS for Varig. It would be allowed if they did the route through Ecuador or Peru (on two weekly frequencies only).

So it would make sense for RG to change the BOG route to non-stop permanently. Of course. that will depend on aircraft availability and demand.

Now, I wonder if Avianca and Varig would consider co-operating.. It might be to the benefit of both..

[Edited 2006-10-05 18:23:15]
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: RG Resumes GRU-BOG , Tam Begins CNF-GIG-EZE

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 13):
Thanks for the info Felipe. I have one question... will RG exercise 5th freedom between CCS and BOG? How does the CCS schedule look now with the triangular route with BOG?



Quoting Summa767 (Reply 18):
As far as I understand, no traffic is permitted between CCS-BOG-CCS for Varig. It would be allowed if they did the route through Ecuador or Peru (on two weekly frequencies only).

No traffic allowed between BOG-CCS-BOG. 5th freedom from BOG is only allowed to MEX, PTY or LAX and limited now to 2 weekly frequencies.
As per Summa comments is it allowed also to be Brazil-Colombia thru Ecuador or Peru.

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 15):
Besides, I guess not too many seats available for BOG sharing the same ac with CCS. The market between Colombia and Brazil deserves a flight as much as the Venezuela Brazil market, hopefully RG will figure this outand dedicate an ac to both cities.

On monday the flight GRU-CCS departed with only less than 70 pax, i believe RG is trying to improve loads with the stop at BOG and in the future split the flights again. RG loads out of GRU seems to be horrible although GIG and CGH keep good.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 14):
Well, AV has very good service, offers wodebodies as well, very good punctuality, and flies daily and non-stop. It will be hard for RG if they don´t start flying non-stop in the next months.

Agree about AV. It will be hard for RG, that's why i believe GRU is not a good option for them.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 17):
I read recently that Varig is about to announce another international destination. Which one would it be?

I believe could be MEX.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 18):
So it would make sense for RG to change the BOG route to non-stop permanently. Of course. that will depend on aircraft availability and demand.

Agree, but they need to improve their connections out of GRU, the only possible short term advantage they can build against AV.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !

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