JFKNY
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Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:44 am

Hi. I am trying to build a replica of Delta's terminal at JFK. I am confused as to whether the roof of Terminal 3-the Delta Worldport is oval-shaped or circular-shaped. Overhead pics appear to show it being an oval but from eye-level and in an old advertisement from the 60s, it shows it to be circular. Thanks for anyone's help.

Brian
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:02 pm

I understand what your saying. It looks round in some pictures and oval in others. I'm not sure.


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fewsolarge
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:35 pm

It's elliptical (and not circular). Check it out on Google Earth or another satellite browser.
 
sflaflight
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:37 pm

Make sure you put a long line of little people waiting outside in your replica to immitate the ridiculous lines that terminal sees between 4-9 pm!

 duck 

BTW, I love the terminal, it's just not built for 12 767 bound European flights all leaving in close proximity to each other.  box 
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:07 pm

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 3):
it's just not built for 12 767 bound European flights all leaving in close proximity to each other

Actually, Pan Am in its heyday could handle 8-10 747s to Europe at around the same time from Terminal 3 and DL also did handle at least 10-12 767s/L1011s to Europe in the early '90s. The current problem is due to the post-9/11 security set-up which severely limits the amount of space land-side, so during peak summer periods, people lining up for the initial security check to even enter the check-in area have been pretty much forced to queue outside....
 
Clipper002
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting a sight about JFK, " Pan Am also built "Worldport," a terminal building at JFK Airport that was the world's largest airline terminal for many years, distinguished by its elliptical, four acre (16,000 m²) roof, suspended far from the outside columns of the terminal below by 32 sets of steel posts and cables."

Hope this answers your question.

Rgds,
Ed
Ed
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 3):
Make sure you put a long line of little people waiting outside in your replica to immitate the ridiculous lines that terminal sees between 4-9 pm!

If you're doing the interior, don't forget the tatty open-brick decor, the shabby carpets, the podiums (podia?) that still have Pan Am stickers on them, the grey Lubyanka that is Immigration, all that fun stuff.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:38 pm

I actually built a replica for an ERAU project. It's sitting next to me in my room now. Totally awesome project that I don't have the heart to get rid of.

Use the Herpa cars for the garage on top.

As for the round part in front . . . it's the hardest part!!! But yes, I think it's more oval than round.

PJ
 
richierich
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:13 am

T3 is probably the worst terminal at JFK, although T6 is close.
I guess T3 looks cool at least, but its drab and miserable inside, especially if you are stuck in the bowels downstairs.
None shall pass!!!!
 
jfk777
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:09 am

It was built to Handle few 747's not a dozen 767. Pan Am had operaqtions in the morning to Tokyo & Day flight to LHR, late near Midnight to EZE & GRU, and the afternoon to evening double daily to LHR and FRA. They also did Paris and Rome most of the 747 era(1970 until they sold to Delta). Most of the other European services were in the 1980's when went to every nook and corner of Europe with airplanes way too big for the routes.
 
MarkATL
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 9):
It was built to Handle few 747's not a dozen 767.

Sorry, it was actually designed to handle 707s and DC-8s.
"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 10):
Sorry, it was actually designed to handle 707s and DC-8s.

The original Worldport, the round bit, yes - but when the added the monstrous excresence onto the back, they built a number of gates specifically for 747's, with the jetbridges aligned to door 1L and 2L.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Clipper002
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:12 am

The original "Worldport" was called the UTB (Unit Terminal Building) and had 8 gates. When the real "Worldport" was designed, it was to handle 747's as well as 707's and DC-8's. In fact 2 of the gates actually had 2 gate lounges and a total of 3 jet bridges for the 747 use. The bridge that met up to R-2 was deemed a failure as it got in the way of both catering as well as the loading equipment. They were finally removed from the building. In its' time, the building was beautiful, but time and age have taken its toll. I haven't been back since the day I was transferred to MIA in 1985, (21 years at JFK), but my wife and I have a great number of close friends that were former workers with us and are now with DL and still keep us informed as to what's happening up there. Perhaps some how DL will find the funds to overhaul the terminal once they settle their financial headaches. Time will tell.

Rgds,
Ed
Ed
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 11):
but when the added the monstrous excresence onto the back, they built a number of gates specifically for 747's, with the jetbridges aligned to door 1L and 2L.

There are a total of 6 such gates with double jet bridges (in the old Pan Am days, Gates 1-3, and Gates 10, 12, 14, which are now equivalent to Delta's Gates 4-6 and 12, 14, and 15) though Pan Am also did park 747s at another 2 gates with single jet bridges (Delta's current Gates 7 and 8)

So yes, Pan Am did handle up to 8 747s at one time at Terminal 3 and Delta did handle up to 11 767/L1011/A310s at Terminal 3 (in the early '90s after the PA acquisition). The current T3 gates 3, 4-10, 12, 14-15 were/are all used to handle European flights. As I've said before, the problem with congestion now is mostly due to the TSA-mandated set-up which required changes to terminal entry points and security checkpoints.
 
JFKNY
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:27 pm

Thanks for all the replies. I found a pic from 2003 on this site and printed it out. When I stand the printed picture of the terminal on its side, it starts to take on an elliptical shape..more oval-shaped, like the earth's orbit around the sun..lol It must be an optical illusion, what with the 32 support beams and cables on top. I even took a ruler (probably not an accurate measurerment on a 2-d picture) and I see one side measures over 3 inches across and another side is a little less than 1 1/2 inches in length. Yet, when viewed looking directly at it, it appears as a circle. I also see that the roof curves upward and is not completely flat. I can see why a previous post stated it was complicated to build.

By the way, I only plan on building the actual terminal, nothing inside. It will be 1:500 scale and I plan on building EVERY terminal and roadway/parking lots, etc at JFK on separate boards, stacked up in layers, so to speak. This will take years, if not at least a decade...lol. I wonder how JFK will be 10-20 years from now. Pics of construction updates will be posted on model airport-related websites.

I posted the original question to this forum because I know you guys are full of commercial aviation knowledge.

Again, thanks.

Brian
 
NYC-air
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:53 pm

Out of curiosity can someone tell me how the lower levels of the terminal are disigned? How many separate bag claim areas are there? What are the immigration facilities like?

I've flown DL out of JFK many times but have never mastered the lower the levels. What the hell are arrival areas A,B, and C. Do most domestic flights have their baggage sent there or to the bag claim under the oval? I just need clarification.

Thanks,
NYC-AIR
 
sflaflight
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:32 pm

off topic but.... the most hidious baggage claim area has to be DL's Terminal 2. Who in their right mind designed that first level!
 
fewsolarge
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:01 pm

JFKNY,

Your project sounds fun. Good luck and share pix!

If you're trying to do this without satellite photos, you're a brave soul. Check this out, and also get Google Earth.

JFK Terminal 3 satellite image
 
aviateur
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RE: Delta Terminal 3 At JFK Airport

Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:20 am

Shabby and overcrowded, Terminal 3 is now terribly unsuited for an operation on the scale of Delta's. "An old confounding warren of passageways and glass partitions," is how it's described in my book.

Or this...

"Delta splits its JFK operations between terminals 2 and 3, and both buildings are the epitome of airport fixer-uppers. The former is what used to be the Pan Am Worldport. It’s an historic, vibrant (code word for sweaty and overcrowded), and intensely dungeonous place, connected by a glass-walled causeway to Terminal 2, previously described by one acerbic columnist as a “hideous modernist box with all the ambiance of an abattoir.” BusinessElite check-in at JFK is now consolidated at Terminal 2, an extremely smart move that will please the airline’s most valued patrons while helping to disperse the enormous crowds that typically gather in Terminal 3 during the late-day overseas departure push. Over the past year or so Delta has added almost 50 daily departures from JFK, and pending nonstops to India and Ghana promised up to 550 more people being dumped into already unbearable queues."

That's from here:
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2006/07/21/askthepilot195/
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author

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