osiris30
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Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:49 pm

Sorry for another 380 thread.. but.. ummm wow!

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayA...ss_October160.xml§ion=business

Quote:
Industry sources revealed that although Airbus SAS is expected to stick to the original order sequence, Etihad is now poised to "steal the thunder" as it had reached an agreement with Airbus to buy four development aircraft (MSN002, MSN004, MSN007 and MSN009) which are now undergoing comprehensive flight tests. "The move was aimed at ensuring that Etihad receives its A380 aircraft at the earliest possible opportunity," he said.
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bringiton
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:55 pm

So the first super-jumbo going to the region wont be emirates !! I wonder what the people running that buisness feel about that!!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:56 pm

Yeah, EK cannot be a happy camper.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
kaitak744
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:59 pm

Where does it say "before Emirates?"

Etihad was originally supposed to receive the test aircraft. And it will not be before Emirates. The test aircraft take around 2-3 months to refurbish, while EK's first few A380s are almost finished.
 
osiris30
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:01 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 3):
Where does it say "before Emirates?"

Etihad was originally supposed to receive the test aircraft. And it will not be before Emirates. The test aircraft take around 2-3 months to refurbish, while EK's first few A380s are almost finished.

In the article (which I linked) it states:

Quote:
Emirates, which is the biggest launch customer with a $21.5 billion order for 43 A380s, will get its first plane by August 2008. Etihad, which was originally scheduled to take its first A380 delivery in October 2007, is now expected to add two superjumbo development aircraft to its fleet by the second quarter 2008.

I intentionally don't steal all of an article as a) it violates copyright and b) I like to see who reads it  Wink
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N328KF
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:02 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 3):
Etihad was originally supposed to receive the test aircraft. And it will not be before Emirates. The test aircraft take around 2-3 months to refurbish, while EK's first few A380s are almost finished.

EK's first few? Hmmm, anyone have the build list? It's said that there are ten airframes that are completed sans interior and production wiring. The first four are flying, and they're for EY. The next four are for SQ. The next two are for EK?

[Edited 2006-10-05 06:03:06]
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
commavia
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:19 pm

Ouch. As if the two years late thing didn't really piss off Emirates, this Etihad thing must be being taken as a slap in the face in Dubai tonight.
 
osiris30
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:24 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Ouch. As if the two years late thing didn't really piss off Emirates, this Etihad thing must be being taken as a slap in the face in Dubai tonight.

This will not sit well with a certain bunch of royal's me thinks... Their CEO might also have some 'splainin' to do Lucy'
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kaitak744
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:58 pm

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 4):

I intentionally don't steal all of an article as a) it violates copyright and b) I like to see who reads it

The quote you pulled out shows nothing about Etihad taking them before EK. It not physically possible for Etihad to take them before EK either. After certification, the planes get delivered to the customers right? But, the test aircraft have just finished testing. So, unless Etihad takes an aircraft which is quite beat up and full of computers and flight recording equipment, and no seats, EK will get them before Etihad.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 4):
August 2008



Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 4):
by the second quarter 2008.

The "second quarter" of a year is anywhere from July to December. This clearly provides Airbus enough time to refurbish their test aircraft and hand them over.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 5):
Hmmm, anyone have the build list?

MSN5000 - static test airframe - Toulouse
MSN5001 - fatigue test airframe - Hamburg

MSN001 - A380-841 - F-WWOW -- AIRBUS
MSN002 - A380-841 - F-WXXL - Etihad
MSN003 - A380-841 - F-WWSA - Singapore Airlines
MSN004 - A380-841 - F-WWDD - Etihad
MSN005 - A380-841 - F-WWSB - Singapore Airlines
MSN006 - A380-841 - F-WWSC - Singapore Airlines
MSN007 - A380-841 - F-WWSD - Etihad
MSN008 - A380-841 - F-WWSE - Singapore Airlines
MSN009 - A380-841 - F-WWSF - Etihad
MSN010 - A380-841 - F-WWSG - Singapore Airlines
MSN011 - A380-861 - F-WWSH - Emirates
MSN012 - A380-841 - F-WWSI - Singapore Airlines
MSN013 - A380-861 - F-WWSJ - Emirates
MSN014 - A380-841 - F-WWSK - QANTAS
MSN015 - A380-841 - F-WWSL - QANTAS
MSN016 - A380-861 - F-WWSM - Emirates
MSN017 - A380-861 - F-WWSN - Emirates
MSN018 - A380-841 - F-WWSO - Malaysian
MSN019 - A380-861 - F-WW** - Emirates
MSN020 - A380-800 - F-WW** - ?
MSN021 - A380-841 - F-WW** - QANTAS
MSN022 - A380-861 - F-WW** - Emirates
MSN023 - A380-861 - F-WW** - Air France
MSN024 - A380-841 - F-WW** - Singapore Airlines
MSN025 - A380-861 - F-WW** - ILFC/Emirates
MSN035 - A380-800F - F-WW** - Federal Express
 
osiris30
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:01 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 8):
The "second quarter" of a year is anywhere from July to December. This clearly provides Airbus enough time to refurbish their test aircraft and hand them over.

No that's second HALF.. Second Quarter is April - June inclusive.

And read the blinking article.. there's a reason I linked it.. and it's on another source now too.
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ikramerica
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:07 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 8):
So, unless Etihad takes an aircraft which is quite beat up and full of computers and flight recording equipment, and no seats, EK will get them before Etihad.

This would normally be the case, but with Certification possibly coming 9 months before the first SQ delivery and 21 months before the first EK delivery, that is PLENTY of time to work on refitting the Etihad frames.

EK did not want test aircraft. Etihad and SQ were willing to take them. That's life, I guess.

We'll see what EK has to say about it though.
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B2707SST
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:21 pm

If this is accurate, it's absolutely unbelievable. Rather than moving heaven and earth to accomodate the A380's lynchpin customers -- EK and SQ -- and get them aircraft at the first possible moment, Airbus decides to play a shell game with delivery slots. Whatever EY's merits as a carrier, it is nowhere near EK, SQ, and QF in terms of prestige, has all of four frames on order, and also happens to be EK's crosstown competitor. It's hard to imagine that Airbus could not have worked out some arrangement whereby these slots could have gone to a more critical customer. The A380 story gets more bizarre by the day.

--B2707SST

[Edited 2006-10-05 07:24:41]
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osiris30
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:20 pm

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 11):
If this is accurate, it's absolutely unbelievable.

It really does make you wonder doesn't it?
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astuteman
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:58 pm

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 11):
If this is accurate, it's absolutely unbelievable. Rather than moving heaven and earth to accomodate the A380's lynchpin customers -- EK and SQ -- and get them aircraft at the first possible moment, Airbus decides to play a shell game with delivery slots

Unless, of course, Airbus DID offer those aircraft to EK, but they declined them (wrong engines maybe? - just guessing).

Like you, I can't believe Airbus would callously piss off a 43 frame customer in favour of a 4 frame customer, without talking to them first.

Regards
 
FlyEmirates
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:00 pm

I belive RR engines were installed on these aircraft, EK are going for engine alliance.
 
ebbuk
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:44 pm

Quoting FlyEmirates (Reply 14):
I belive RR engines were installed on these aircraft, EK are going for engine alliance.

Yes of course quite logical, Thanks FlyEmirates.

Sorry Osiris30, not as much of a scandal as you'd want. The 380 is in a bad enough state thanks.
 
brendows
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:25 pm

Quoting FlyEmirates (Reply 14):
I belive RR engines were installed on these aircraft, EK are going for engine alliance.

Three out of the four have RR engines, while the fourth has the GP7200 engines from EA (which will be changed to RR after the flight testing.)
 
kappel
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:32 pm

Quoting FlyEmirates (Reply 14):
I belive RR engines were installed on these aircraft, EK are going for engine alliance.

Isn't Etihad also going with EA engines? I read a while ago that the test aircraft were to be re-engined before delivery to Etihad, because they ordered EA engines.
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Ejazz
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:04 pm

Etihad opted for the RR engines to power its 4 A380s.
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nighthawk
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:22 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 13):
Like you, I can't believe Airbus would callously piss off a 43 frame customer in favour of a 4 frame customer, without talking to them first.

Your assuming that Airbus has not spoken to Emirates. How do you know emirates has not been informed of the move, and given permission for airbus to give them to EY ?
 
AirbusA6
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:27 pm

Etihad bought the development aircraft, so naturally they will get them very early in the programme. If they had wanted brand new planes, they would be well down the delivery list.
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astuteman
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:31 pm

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 19):
Your assuming that Airbus has not spoken to Emirates. How do you know emirates has not been informed of the move, and given permission for airbus to give them to EY ?

Wrong way round, Nighthawk.
I actually meant that I can't believe Airbus would do that - ergo I believe they must have spoken to EK first  checkmark .
Replace "can't believe" with "don't believe" in my post if it clarifies my intent.  Smile

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jacobin777
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:52 pm

Quoting B2707SST (Reply 11):
If this is accurate, it's absolutely unbelievable. Rather than moving heaven and earth to accomodate the A380's lynchpin customers -- EK and SQ -- and get them aircraft at the first possible moment, Airbus decides to play a shell game with delivery slots. Whatever EY's merits as a carrier, it is nowhere near EK, SQ, and QF in terms of prestige, has all of four frames on order, and also happens to be EK's crosstown competitor. It's hard to imagine that Airbus could not have worked out some arrangement whereby these slots could have gone to a more critical customer. The A380 story gets more bizarre by the day.



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 13):
Like you, I can't believe Airbus would callously piss off a 43 frame customer in favour of a 4 frame customer, without talking to them first.



Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 20):
Etihad bought the development aircraft, so naturally they will get them very early in the programme. If they had wanted brand new planes, they would be well down the delivery list.

I don't think its impossible to believe....though there is a massive imbroglio of the IFE, wiring, etc...the certification process is going relatively smoothly....which means the A380 will be certified soon enough....that gives it more than enough time for Airbus to refurbish the plane and have it ready before EK's....

This has happened more as a result of Airbus situation more than anything else.....while EK probably isn't happy about it, I'm sure they are smart enough to understand what's happening...well..I would hope so... spin 
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ThePRGuy
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:09 pm

If that is actually the case: ie EY being the first to operate a revenue service on the 380, then I can imagine that Emirates is not going to be a happy bunny.
Thanks
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katekebo
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:43 pm

I think it's a great way to piss-off your largest customer - well done, Airbus. Emotions are already flying high in Emirates, and this won't help to calm them down.
 
474218
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 3):
Etihad was originally supposed to receive the test aircraft. And it will not be before Emirates. The test aircraft take around 2-3 months to refurbish, while EK's first few A380s are almost finished.

If it is taking Airbus over a year to re-wire the production aircraft how are they going to get all the wiring changed in the test aircraft in 2-3 months?
 
osiris30
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 15):
Yes of course quite logical, Thanks FlyEmirates.

Sorry Osiris30, not as much of a scandal as you'd want. The 380 is in a bad enough state thanks.

I'm not suggesting it's a scandal. I posted an article and stated I didn't think it was smart and/or a good move, regardless of the REASON for it.

Customer relations is a tricky business and more so at this point for Airbus. I would have expected given the ramblings in the press about Emirates this would be the last thing Airbus would have done..

I mean sitting on them for a couple of months rather than *potentially* pissing off your single largest customer seems like a no-brainer to me, especially given the state of the program.

You seem to think that because I don't think as highly of the 380 as you that I have some axe to grind against Airbus/the 380. That's simply not the truth. For the record I:

- Think the 380 is a mistake. I think it's 15-20 years too soon for a plane that size.
- Think Airbus miss-guessed the market for the plane BADLY
- Think Airbus has mismanaged their production and internal processes horribly for the entire program
- Am unsure the plane will ever be a commercial success for it's manufacturer
- Think that for select airlines it will be a fantastic aircraft
- Think that the number of airlines that the point above applies too is too small
- Think Airbus was much too arrogant about the 380
- Think Airbus will survive
- Am starting to really like Streiff's no BS nature
- Hate politics of any kind especially when they interfere with the 'purity' of aviation
- Post news articles when I see them and think they add value (I even posted good Airbus news last week, that was quickly ignored by most and thus fell off the radar screen)
- Am an enormous fan of the aviation industry in general. I find it to be a fascinating enthraling segment, both from equpi manu stand point and airline ops.
- Still disagree regarding the largest project ever, but willing to let it go  Wink  duck   white 
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Shenzhen
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 19):
Your assuming that Airbus has not spoken to Emirates. How do you know emirates has not been informed of the move, and given permission for airbus to give them to EY ?

I doubt that Airbus needs Emirates permission to sell an airframe to a competitor, which they did to Singapore and a host of other airlines. Emirates was the first to order the airplane, but were never slated to receive the first delivery. Most, if not all airlines know that the test planes will be refurbished and sold.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 26):
I mean sitting on them for a couple of months rather than *potentially* pissing off your single largest customer seems like a no-brainer to me, especially given the state of the program.

At this time I don't think it really matters. Airbus has a contract with Etihad, and should do their upmost to meet their obligations, just like they should with Emirates.

Not saying that it isn't sad for Emirates, but this is simply the way the chips fell. Maybe they will delay the delivery, saying that the rework took longer then expected, but I wouldn't expect that announcement until 2008.

Cheers
 
Ken777
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:47 am

I have a feeling that EY will get their planes with come very standard wiring. Even that assumes that Airbus will be able to handle some form of IFE for these planes without too much of an engineering problem. We might call this the 380 Standard, as opposed to the 380 Custom with IFE and other custom configurations SQ and others want.

Personally I believe that Airbus will just be happy to get some cash coming in on the 380 program.
 
Ejazz
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 28):
I have a feeling that EY will get their planes with come very standard wiring.

Etihads planned interior will require a lot more than standard wiring believe me.
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ikramerica
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 25):
If it is taking Airbus over a year to re-wire the production aircraft how are they going to get all the wiring changed in the test aircraft in 2-3 months?

He was talking in a "typical" certification program. See the 772LR for example. It took 2-3 months to refit each bird for PIA.

But in this case, even if it takes 1 year, that's still before the EK birds are now set for delivery. So Airbus would have to just hold the EY birds for 2 years for no reason, eating costs and defferring revenue.

My guess is that Airbus is stopping work on the other birds and will get the 2 SQ and 4 EY birds right first, and use that knowledge to return to work on the EK and QF birds. It's the only logical thing to do at this point, since they seem to still be baffled by the wiring issues...
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andrewuber
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Ejazz (Reply 29):
Etihads planned interior will require a lot more than standard wiring believe me.

That's an understatement!! I've seen drawings of their concept interior, and it's dramatic to say the least. But if the aircraft are coming straight from the test program, won't the interior completion take a few months?

EK and Sheikh Mo must be absolutely steaming about this. I'd bet that 748i order is MUCH more likely now than ever before.

Time to buy more BA stock!!

Drew
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bringiton
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:02 am

I bought some boeing just about a month back , and now am thinking about selling it at a pretty decent profit mind you!!
 
manni
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:29 am

http://in.news.yahoo.com/061005/137/688qo.html

Is there an error in the article provided by Osiris? The above article mentioned 'second half'.

Another interesting bit from the article...

"To adapt to the delay in the delivery of the double-decker planes, Etihad may firm up options it has on 12 other Airbus aircraft. The carrier will likely make a decision on this in the first half of 2007, Boven said."

Anyone know what Airbus aircraft Etihad has options for?

And Mr. Boven repeats what has been said by other A380 customers...


"We're very much looking forward to incorporating the A380. It's a tremendous aircraft."


 Wink
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Stitch
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:53 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 3):
Etihad was originally supposed to receive the test aircraft. And it will not be before Emirates. The test aircraft take around 2-3 months to refurbish, while EK's first few A380s are almost finished.

Okay, that explains that. I was wondering how EY, with three(?) birds in the air doing tests, was not going to see a plane for a year or more (since Airbus has said the first batch of planes go to SQ, QF, and EK).

And thanks for the build list. It's much more up-to-date then the one I was using.

Quoting Manni (Reply 33):
Anyone know what Airbus aircraft Etihad has options for?

Per Wiki, they have 12 A332s, 1 A345, and 2 A346s on order (assuming two A346s have been delivered).
 
manni
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
Per Wiki, they have 12 A332s, 1 A345, and 2 A346s on order (assuming two A346s have been delivered).

Thanks Stitch. How about those 12 options? What aircraft are involved?
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Ejazz
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RE: Etihad To Get A380s Ahead Of Emirates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 34):
2 A346s on order (assuming two A346s have been delivered).

Stitch, EK and EY have no A346s as yet  Yeah sure

The 4 A346s will be delivered in 2007. 3 A345s have thus far been delivered this year with one more to enter the fleet soon.
Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.