SeeTheWorld
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35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:59 pm

The most recent DOT data out shows that the Top 35 most delayed flights in the U.S. are all on DL (2) and DL subsidiaries (33) fairly evenly split between JFK and ATL. All delayed at least 90% of the time except the last one.

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/2006/October/0610atcr.pdf

[Edited 2006-10-05 15:00:00]
 
B777-700
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:08 pm

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Thread starter):
The most recent DOT data out shows that the Top 35 most delayed flights in the U.S. are all on DL (2) and DL subsidiaries (33) fairly evenly split between JFK and ATL. All delayed at least 90% of the time except the last one.

Delta is suffering at ATL right now due to the construction, weather, and any combination of. It's not good. New York is New York.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 1):
New York is New York.

Which is worst... New York being New York, or Philadelphia being Philadelphia?

I'm just wondering cause I absolutely hate flying through PHL, but haven't flown through NYC in YEARS.
Aiming High and going far..
 
RL757PVD
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 1):
Delta is suffering at ATL right now due to the construction, weather, and any combination of. It's not good. New York is New York.

I dont think its as much ATL as it is Delta connection

read the full report and you'll see DL mainline isnt anywhere near as bad.

This is unfortunate becuase Delta mainline has really evolved into a good domestic product and they are working on making it better, however they have totally neglected DL connection and every time ive flown them its been nothing short of a disaster.... 18 hrs of delay over 8 flights since may, mostly on DL conn flights. In contrary, i broke my 5 year DL loyalty and tried airtran... 30 min early on ATL-BOS and 20 min early BOS-ATL.....

Ill say it again, its NOT ATL.... its ASA/Comair!
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
phollingsworth
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:48 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 3):
I dont think its as much ATL as it is Delta connection

read the full report and you'll see DL mainline isnt anywhere near as bad.
...
In contrary, i broke my 5 year DL loyalty and tried airtran... 30 min early on ATL-BOS and 20 min early BOS-ATL.....

Ill say it again, its NOT ATL.... its ASA/Comair!

It is not even that simple, at least for OH, I will give you EV which is a complete cluster. All of the OH operations which show up on the list except for two involve JFK and/or ATL (The two that don't are RDU to/from LGA flights). Notice that CVG, which is very heavy in OH ops comes out with top 3 ontime arrival and departure stats.

I don't know who has ultimate dispatch control for DCI flights operated by EV and OH, but it would not suprise me that DL would force those flights to be late to maintain ontime percentages for their mainline flights. Since ATL was effectively broken for much of the last year (look at FL's numbers), airlines were going to take delays. If you have control it would be smarter to hit flights with fewer pax (maybe less competition?) hard and try and save those flights with lots of pax and competition.

Interesting about FL and ATL-BOS, but everytime I do a BOS-ATL leg on FL it has been delayed by >1 hr. My delays on the DL runs haven't been as bad.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:00 pm

Actually i shoukd have changed it to ASA/Mesa!

That was the last straw with my Delta loyalty
ATL-LIT last monday, they delayed the flight in 15-20 min increments for 4 hours!!! then they cancelled it, so we had to fly to MEM then drive to LIT. !st we had no captain, then we were ready to board, then somehow we had no f/a (it was morning so i doubt they timed out).

My DL conn flights since may.. not ONE was remotely on time:
DAB-ATL 2hrs..weather
ATL-PVD 2 hrs..weather
ATL-HPN 3 hrs... ASA disoragnization (2 a/c changes, 4 gate changes!)
ATL-LIT 4 hrs..xld arr LIT 8 hrs late...crew issues w/ Mesa

Whats it worth to Delta?... 2,500 skymiles or $75...they can kiss my Silver Medallion and $900 fares to LIT goodbye!

Again...no problems with DL mainline.... but with 60% of your domestic network is DL Connection, it needs to become more of a focus
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
B777-700
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:08 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 5):
DAB-ATL 2hrs..weather
ATL-PVD 2 hrs..weather

Can't to anything about that.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 5):
ATL-HPN 3 hrs... ASA disoragnization

You're perception, now what was the real reason? Gimme some flight information, and I can find out.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 5):
ATL-LIT 4 hrs..xld arr LIT 8 hrs late...crew issues w/ Mesa

Um, Mesa isn't operating ATL-LIT for Delta. Even so, what was causing the crew issues? It could have been WX or ATC.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 5):
but with 60% of your domestic network is DL Connection, it needs to become more of a focus

Where did you get that number? That seems awful high.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
vikinga346
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:12 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 2):
I'm just wondering cause I absolutely hate flying through PHL

ERJ - just curious.. You'd rather fly through JFK than PHL? Why do you loathe PHL? I was based in PHL for a long time and never really had any trouble with the airport. JFK is just a big mess, just like NYC is.
...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
 
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ERJ170
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:21 pm

In the past 2 years, I've flown through philadelphia a dozen or so times (if I fly US, I prefer CLT) and of the dozen or so times, I have left on time once. usually it is delayed from initial departure and my flight has left.. it's just a mess.. and if someone spits in PHL, the airport gets delayed... it's just my option, but I will avoid PHL unless I absolutely have to do it.. and then I will just have to take the consequences..
Aiming High and going far..
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:52 pm

I can speak for the DCI and mainline delyas at JFK. DCI is a mess lack of manpower constant switch of ship of flights and operation too large for it's current space. As for mainline, many delays are from the baggage room bring late bags. I think that it is better that you leave 10 min late and get you luggage than leave 20 min early without your bags.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
RL757PVD
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 6):
You're perception, now what was the real reason? Gimme some flight information, and I can find out.

7/26 DL 4158 ATL-HPN
2 a/c changes
4 gate changes
complete lack of information, same with another flight at the same gate, the captain of that flight grabbed the pic form the CSA and explained the situation to the pax.... out captain also appologized for the lack of information once they closed our boarding door. (the crew had been waiting with us the whole time too, so they were equally frustrated)

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 6):
Um, Mesa isn't operating ATL-LIT for Delta. Even so, what was causing the crew issues? It could have been WX or ATC.

9/25 DL 6107 Freedom Air ATL-LIT
after 3 hrs we finally had a captain, then we were waiting for clearance to board, then we had no f/a.... then they cancelled

ATL-MEM/LIT-ATL is $600 when ATL-LIT is $918... DL doesn't think they should have to give a $318 voucher for the difference!

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 6):
Where did you get that number? That seems awful high.

Somone on here posted statistics recently on the RJ/Mainline ratio for domestic and i believe thats what DL's was.

Ive been Delta loyal for 5 years now, but they really have blown it... DL connection on routes that should be..(PVD) then the thinning mainline routes make upgrades harder and harder...Id tough it out if it seemed like they were doing something about it....
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
B777-700
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
7/26 DL 4158 ATL-HPN
2 a/c changes
4 gate changes



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
out captain also appologized for the lack of information once they closed our boarding door. (the crew had been waiting with us the whole time too, so they were equally frustrated)

That was a mx delay. But looking at some other factors, the crew was not your friend here. Now that I can read the ops notes, I get the impression the gate staff was up against a lot.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
9/25 DL 6107 Freedom Air ATL-LIT

Oh right, they operate that under Freedom, thats whay I wasn't finding it. Anyway, it was crew rest - complication of weather. So of your list of 4 delays, only one was company fault.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
ATL-MEM/LIT-ATL is $600 when ATL-LIT is $918... DL doesn't think they should have to give a $318 voucher for the difference!

And they shouldn't, the delay / cx was the result of weather. Now, lets say this was something that was Delta's fault, like a mx. I still don't understand where MEM comes into this...Can you explain your above statement a little better and what exactly you're asking for?
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
panamair
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting VikingA346 (Reply 7):
You'd rather fly through JFK than PHL?

While I can't speak for PHL, JFK during the non-late afternoon/evening-peak hours is actually OK.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 9):
at JFK. DCI is a mess lack of manpower constant switch of ship of flights and operation too large for it's current space.

Yes, DCI has certainly taken a turn for the worse at JFK with the switch to gates 23-25 in Terminal 2. It was never this bad when they had the flights split between Gates 11 and 18 in Terminal 3. The waiting area at Gate 11 was pretty large and I never saw the crowds there that I now see at 23.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 9):
As for mainline, many delays are from the baggage room bring late bags. I think that it is better that you leave 10 min late and get you luggage than leave 20 min early without your bags.

Another thing I've noticed that contributes quite a bit to the delays has been the congested alleyways between Terminals 3 and 2, as well as between Terminals 2 and 1. Often, an aircraft ready to push back has to wait for 2-3 others to push back first and then wait for another 2-3 inbound a/c to taxi in, etc. The other pushbacks cannot occur as the a/c ahead of them is told to hold due to congestion in the taxiing queue, etc. Leaving on a mainline flight out of Gate 26 at T2 during rush hour for example, is truly dreadful as you often have to wait for the heavies heading into and out of Terminal 1.
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 12):
Another thing I've noticed that contributes quite a bit to the delays has been the congested alleyways between Terminals 3 and 2, as well as between Terminals 2 and 1. Often, an aircraft ready to push back has to wait for 2-3 others to push back first and then wait for another 2-3 inbound a/c to taxi in, etc. The other pushbacks cannot occur as the a/c ahead of them is told to hold due to congestion in the taxiing queue, etc. Leaving on a mainline flight out of Gate 26 at T2 during rush hour for example, is truly dreadful as you often have to wait for the heavies heading into and out of Terminal 1.

Now that is even more of a problem becuase first. That taxiway is controlled by TOGA and second all wide bodys have to be towed onto the active because of the construction.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
RL757PVD
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 11):
That was a mx delay. But looking at some other factors, the crew was not your friend here. Now that I can read the ops notes, I get the impression the gate staff was up against a lot.

Thats a Delta problem, not mine

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 11):
Oh right, they operate that under Freedom, thats whay I wasn't finding it. Anyway, it was crew rest - complication of weather. So of your list of 4 delays, only one was company fault.

It was a bright sunny day there in ATL.... if they knew there was a crew rest issue, then why delay it in 15-20 min increments for FOUR HOURS? You would think crew scheduling would have more flexibility at a hub, id be more understanding if it was at an out-station the morning after. Not noon the next day at a hub.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 11):
And they shouldn't, the delay / cx was the result of weather. Now, lets say this was something that was Delta's fault, like a mx. I still don't understand where MEM comes into this...Can you explain your above statement a little better and what exactly you're asking for?

The other LIT flights were full, and we were already late for the conference as it was, so the quickest way to get there was to fly to MEM and drive to LIT. MEM is usually 1/3 of what it costs to fly to LIT, but we pay that premium for a reason.

Just an example... if i spent the same $$$ i did on ATL-BOS in F as i did for ATL-LIT in Y... id have over 10,000 MQMs more than i do now for the SAME PRICE...Giving DL lots of high fare business in return for this type of service and low medallion miles just doesnt make sense...
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 14):
Thats a Delta problem, not mine

Never said it was.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 14):
It was a bright sunny day there in ATL....

Weather isn't always where you're at. If it was a crew rest situation, the weather was most likely the night before, either in ATL, their point of origin, or in route.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 14):
if they knew there was a crew rest issue, then why delay it in 15-20 min increments for FOUR HOURS?

Because they were trying to find a FA apparently.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 14):
You would think crew scheduling would have more flexibility at a hub, id be more understanding if it was at an out-station the morning after. Not noon the next day at a hub.

You'd think that, wouldn't you? Unfortunately that's not always the case. In this day and age, crews are utilized to their highest degree. There's not always extra crew around, regardless of the city.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 14):
The other LIT flights were full, and we were already late for the conference as it was, so the quickest way to get there was to fly to MEM and drive to LIT. MEM is usually 1/3 of what it costs to fly to LIT, but we pay that premium for a reason.

Ok, then no, you would not get over half your fare back. You'd get the difference between MEM and LIT back, based on the actual distance difference between the two cities. This is standard practice in the industry.

I missed the following from your previous post...

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
Somone on here posted statistics recently on the RJ/Mainline ratio for domestic and i believe thats what DL's was.

60% of Delta's capacity is DCI? That can't be right. There's so many things wrong with that comment, I dont even know where to begin. 'Someone on here'...This website is so full of false information, it's not even funny...and 'You believe' that's what it was? I'm not buying that until a reliable source can come up w/ some numbers.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
Ive been Delta loyal for 5 years now, but they really have blown it...

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you find an airline that doesn't have delays.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
DL connection on routes that should be..

Delta, or any airline, will put the aircraft that they have the most likely chance of making a profit with on that route.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
then the thinning mainline routes make upgrades harder and harder...

There's been capacity reductions, how is this different than just about any other airline? That is an unfortunate result, but a necessary one.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
Id tough it out if it seemed like they were doing something about it....

I'm sorry, but you have unrealistic expectations. This is a carrier that needed to make changes. Fortunately a vast majority of people understand the company need to do what it takes, I'm sure delta is sorry it lost you, but you're asking for something that simply cannot be done.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:40 am

First off, i do appreciate your comments, im not venting my delta frustrations on you...

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 15):
60% of Delta's capacity is DCI? That can't be right. There's so many things wrong with that comment

I believe it was 60% of departures/flight NOT capacity.. i wouldnt have believed it if it said capacity either.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 15):
Ok, then no, you would not get over half your fare back. You'd get the difference between MEM and LIT back, based on the actual distance difference between the two cities. This is standard practice in the industry.

That is what i am saying..
ATL-LIT $918 (outrageous in my oppinion for a 1 hr flight)
ATL-MEM/LIT-ATL = $538
ATl-MEM $154

I believe we are due the difference in ATL-LIT and ATL-MEM/LIT-ATL back... Delta doesnt.


Again ill mention, i have had ZERO problems on Delta mainline, its been several years or seamless flying with them. Delta connection is 0 for 6, but with decreasing mainline options if im gonna pay big $$$ for these non-airtran routes, (LIT and PVD) the Delta connection treatment isnt worth the money.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
B777-700
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):
I believe it was 60% of departures/flight NOT capacity..

I don't think that's right either.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):
ATL-LIT $918 (outrageous in my oppinion for a 1 hr flight)

You're allowed to think that. Fares are not based on the time it takes to travel tho. They're based on availability.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):
I believe we are due the difference in ATL-LIT and ATL-MEM/LIT-ATL back... Delta doesnt.

And they're correct. No airline compensates these situations in the way you are asking. Again, you'd the the difference in milage between MEM and LIT back to your credit card (a partial refund) If you flew LIT-ATL as planned, you would get nothing.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):
Again ill mention, i have had ZERO problems on Delta mainline, its been several years or seamless flying with them. Delta connection is 0 for 6, but with decreasing mainline options if im gonna pay big $$$ for these non-airtran routes, (LIT and PVD) the Delta connection treatment isnt worth the money.

Fair enuff.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:20 am

It is nice to see NW as the top legacy carrier again. Yet another reason to choose to connectin in MEM on NW... rather than DL in ATL.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
B777-700
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 18):
It is nice to see NW as the top legacy carrier again.

 rotfl 
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
phollingsworth
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):
Again ill mention, i have had ZERO problems on Delta mainline, its been several years or seamless flying with them. Delta connection is 0 for 6, but with decreasing mainline options if im gonna pay big $$$ for these non-airtran routes, (LIT and PVD) the Delta connection treatment isnt worth the money.

At least DL connection out of/into ATL or JFK. It doesn't look like SLC or CVG have a particular problem.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 17):
You're allowed to think that. Fares are not based on the time it takes to travel tho. They're based on availability.

So true, though fares are really based upon what the market will bear and within that the particular availibility.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 18):
It is nice to see NW as the top legacy carrier again. Yet another reason to choose to connectin in MEM on NW... rather than DL in ATL.



Quoting B777-700 (Reply 19):

rotfl

Why, exactly, do you find that funny?
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
RL757PVD
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 6):
Can't to anything about that.



Quoting B777-700 (Reply 11):
That was a mx delay. But looking at some other factors, the crew was not your friend here. Now that I can read the ops notes, I get the impression the gate staff was up against a lot.



Quoting B777-700 (Reply 11):
And they shouldn't, the delay / cx was the result of weather. Now, lets say this was something that was Delta's fault, like a mx. I still don't understand where MEM comes into this...Can you explain your above statement a little better and what exactly you're asking for?



Quoting B777-700 (Reply 15):
Never said it was.



Quoting B777-700 (Reply 15):
You'd think that, wouldn't you?



Quoting B777-700 (Reply 15):
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you find an airline that doesn't have delays.



Quoting B777-700 (Reply 15):
I'm sorry, but you have unrealistic expectations. This is a carrier that needed to make changes. Fortunately a vast majority of people understand the company need to do what it takes, I'm sure delta is sorry it lost you, but you're asking for something that simply cannot be done.

Sounds like the DL customer service rep I talked to!

High fares + CRJs + 18 hrs of delay over 8 flights = time help the profiability of another airline

Airtran 2 flights combined 50 min early, 25% less $$ than DL
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
Evan767
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 18):
It is nice to see NW as the top legacy carrier again

 laughing 

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 21):
Why, exactly, do you find that funny?

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
B777-700
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 22):
Airtran 2 flights combined 50 min early, 25% less $$ than DL

Apples and oranges.

Also, how much do you wanna make a bet Delta has the same fares in markets that they compete with Airtran? So you don't really save more $$$ with FL...It all depends on availability.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 22):
High fares + CRJs + 18 hrs of delay over 8 flights = time help the profiability of another airline

Again, fares are based on availability.

Again, any airline will put the aircraft most likely to turn a profit on a route. ATL-LIT does not command frequent mainline flights, sorry.

Again, most of your delays were out of the airlines control.

With your attitude, you're gonna run out of airlines eventually.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 22):
Sounds like the DL customer service rep I talked to!

Well, after a while and enuff people telling you these things, you might start to think that the problem might be you.  Wink
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:54 am

Regardless of my personal thoughts on DL connection, i think this report speaks for itself.

The TOP 27 WORST flights in terms of being on time are Delta connection... thats all airlines nationwide... EV and OH make up 101 of the 140 repeat offender flights ...when you figure that includes US @ PHL and CO @ EWR to still have the top 27 something is seriously wrong with the way thigns are being run. Cant even say its ATL, becuase FL only has 8 on the list.. and 6 of those involve EWR/LGA in addition to ATL.

Anybody able to check the statistic on # of daily DL conn flight and # of daily DL mainlinre flights?
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
SeeTheWorld
Topic Author
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:01 am

Frankly, this banter back and forth is all pretty silly. It doesn't matter whether it's DL connection, weather, maintenance, crew scheduling. The fact is the top 35 most delayed flights are DL or DL affiliates, and that's not good for business regardless. Every other airline has to contend with affiliates, weather, maintenance, etc. Having the Top 5 is bad enough, having the Top 35 suggests a real systemic problem.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 24):
Also, how much do you wanna make a bet Delta has the same fares in markets that they compete with Airtran? So you don't really save more $$$ with FL...It all depends on availability.

Delta's T fare was $85 more than FL

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 24):
Again, fares are based on availability.

Again, any airline will put the aircraft most likely to turn a profit on a route. ATL-LIT does not command frequent mainline flights, sorry.

Based on availability my @$$
Its the Delta business raper special.... you can book 6 months out have no one booked on the plane... if you stay less than 2 nights.... expect to pay your firstborn

Example... Feb 5-Feb 6th ATL-LIT $918

With 2 people its cheaper to rent a plane

With 6-8 people its cheaper to charter a jet

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 24):
Again, most of your delays were out of the airlines control.

Read through the report and look at the amount of DL Conn planes to EVERY OTHER AIRLINE out there... The other airlines fly through the same weather, yet they dont completely dominate the list. Of every airline out there to have 100 of the 140 flights that are late 80% of the time or more is a clear indication of operational failure.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 24):
Well, after a while and enuff people telling you these things, you might start to think that the problem might be you.

Again... seeing how all my issues are Delta connection... and a DOT report that confirms that...I say its them.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 26):
having the Top 35 suggests a real systemic problem

Exactly... If anyone is looking for a clear indication of an operational breakdown.. thats it!
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
7/26 DL 4158 ATL-HPN
2 a/c changes
4 gate changes
complete lack of information, same with another flight at the same gate, the captain of that flight grabbed the pic form the CSA and explained the situation to the pax.... out captain also appologized for the lack of information once they closed our boarding door. (the crew had been waiting with us the whole time too, so they were equally frustrated)

Heh. I was supposed to be on that flight, too. Was flying MYR-ATL-HPN. That was probably my worst DL experience in years... The gate agents were awful and they just had nasty attitudes. They wouldn't help me change my flight, just kept directing me to the useless house phones. Finally a new one came in, and she was very helpful. Put me on the next ATL-LGA flight no-charge, which ended up to be on a pleasant ex-song AC, which still wasn't painted or refit. I'd love to know the real issue with 4158 that day.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5272
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:14 am

It all boils down to two things:

1) The clusterf**k that is regional ops at JFK.

2) America's Sorriest Airline in ATL

Fix those two things and this wouldn't happen.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 29):
Heh. I was supposed to be on that flight, too.

Were you waiting aorund for it when they moved it over to the E councourse?

I was protected on the last LGA flight in the event that it cancelled, but my ride actually was working AT HPN so i wanted to avoid the LGA option. ended up being just over 3 hrs of delay. Contact me through the info in my profile if you want more details.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
FutureFO
Posts: 2811
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:24 am

RL757PVD,


Evidentally you have only negatives with F8. Have you had a chance to experience us at RP. You can catch our CVG-LIT flights. I know you are upset at DL/F8. Understandable, we at RP have issues with them as well as we have to sometimes DH on them. Have you let DL corporate know your issues. Maybe that will help get them out the door a little quicker.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:30 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27):
Delta's T fare was $85 more than FL

I find that hard to believe, and I'm not going to take your word for it.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27):
Based on availability my @$$
Its the Delta business raper special....

Yes, based on availability. This is industry standard. You act like this is something specific to Delta...lol

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27):
Example... Feb 5-Feb 6th ATL-LIT $918

And? Airlines wouldn't be offering fares like that if there wasn't someone willing to pay for them. To quote a very wise person on here...

"Flexible airline travel is a high value product. It's very expensive, because it's very valuable. Many people pay the high business fares."

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27):
Quoting B777-700 (Reply 24):
Again, most of your delays were out of the airlines control.

Read through the report and look at the amount of DL Conn planes to EVERY OTHER AIRLINE out there...

But we were talking about all those flights were we? No, just yours. I pointed out that you were blaming the airline for things that were out of their control. (save one flight) Nice try at a deflection, but I'm not buying it.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27):
Quoting B777-700 (Reply 24):
Well, after a while and enuff people telling you these things, you might start to think that the problem might be you.

Again... seeing how all my issues are Delta connection... and a DOT report that confirms that...I say its them.

Again, you have to look at the reason why your flight was delayed. You can quote all the stats you want. YOUR flights were delayed mostly due to weather. It sucks, sure, but it's very telling of an individual when they can't separate the situation from the airline.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 29):
They wouldn't help me change my flight, just kept directing me to the useless house phones.

Do you mean the very usefull Delta Direct phone? I love them. They help me all the time, and 90% of the time I dont have to wait in line, and get the best choice of flights.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 29):
I'd love to know the real issue with 4158 that day.

The real issue? As I posted, it was a mx issue. If you want to think there's some Oliver Stone conspiracy going on...be my guest, and I'll direct you to the tinfoil hat department.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 32):
Evidentally you have only negatives with F8. Have you had a chance to experience us at RP. You can catch our CVG-LIT flights. I know you are upset at DL/F8. Understandable, we at RP have issues with them as well as we have to sometimes DH on them. Have you let DL corporate know your issues. Maybe that will help get them out the door a little quicker.

Im doin ATL-JFK-PVD in Dec and im hoping RP keeps going on that route like they are now, ive heard good things about RP.... the DH8 would be neat, but when its Mesa, im concerned about their track record! Im hoping ATL-PVD gets some of the 170's .... CRJs are just dreadful on that route and thats after u survuve the ASA ATL cluster funk
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 33):
I find that hard to believe, and I'm not going to take your word for it.

if it was the same, i would have bought it..simple enought


as for the rest of the crap you mentioned/defended....

I dont care what the reason is becuase every DL mainline flight even in simmilar conditions runs fine. Bad weather... some delay, but nothing crazy, heck i have the job i have today because i met someone in a crown room on a mechanical delay. The main point ive been trying to prove is that DL mainline is one thing, DL connection is a whoel different beast... my personal experiences may not be 100% within the airline's control, however the situation was definately exacerbated by the DL conn operation moreso than if it were mainline.

The report clearly shows this on a much larger scale and specifically ASA/Comair. When you think that this report includes UA-ORD, CO-EWR and US-PHL, this is a major problem.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 6):
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 5):
but with 60% of your domestic network is DL Connection, it needs to become more of a focus

Where did you get that number? That seems awful high.



Quoting B777-700 (Reply 15):
60% of Delta's capacity is DCI? That can't be right. There's so many things wrong with that comment, I dont even know where to begin. 'Someone on here'...This website is so full of false information, it's not even funny...and 'You believe' that's what it was? I'm not buying that until a reliable source can come up w/ some numbers.



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):
I believe it was 60% of departures/flight NOT capacity..

OK, past 24hrs arrivals into ATL:

| DAL | 537 |
| ASQ | 386 |
| TRS | 221 |
| FRL | 35 |
| TCF | 32 |
| CHQ | 28 |
| AAL | 23 |
| COM | 20 |
| BKA | 19 |
| NWA | 14 |
| COA | 14 |
| BTA | 10 |
| FDX | 10 |
| USC | 9 |
| JZA | 8 |
| UAL | 7 |
| UPS | 7 |
| ASH | 7 |
| JIA | 6 |
| AWE | 6 |
| AWI | 4 |
| LOF | 4 |
| RPA | 4 |
| ACA | 4 |
| EGF | 4 |


Adding up the regionals it looks like 50% or less...but not sure of all the regionals.

...and types:

| CRJX | 401 |
| MD8X | 253 |
| B73X | 164 |
| B71X | 160 |
| B75X | 144 |
| B76X | 84 |
| E14X | 73 |
| E17X | 40 |
| AT7X | 32 |
| LJ3X | 14 |
| A31X | 13 |
| A32X | 9 |
| MU2X | 8 |
| B74X | 8 |
| B77X | 8 |
| DC9X | 7 |
| B72X | 7 |
| MD1X | 7 |
| C20X | 4 |
| DC8X | 4 |
| DC1X | 4 |
| E13X | 4 |

..and currently a Ground Delay Program due to runway construction:

MAXIMUM DELAY: 67
AVERAGE DELAY: 24.7
REASON: RUNWAY / RUNWAY CONSTRUCTION


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:07 am

Off topic, but in the report:

On page 10, listing on-time percentages by airport, all airlines have at least a 70% on time rate at SAN, except NW, which has only a 54.9% on time rate! Further, when you look at page 5, it shows that NW has an overall 77+% arrival rate.

Why such a discrepancy? SAN isn't THAT delay-prone!  scratchchin 
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:04 pm

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 36):
Adding up the regionals it looks like 50% or less...but not sure of all the regionals.

If ATL is just under 50%, then when CVG SLC JFK Florida and P2P are factored in then 50-60% domestic RJ ops inc conceivable i would think.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:29 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 35):
as for the rest of the crap you mentioned/defended....

Well, that's a clear sign that you're obviously a waste of time. I've tried talking to sense into you, but you've made your own reality and there's no getting thru to you.

I'm sorry I bothered, good day to you.

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 36):
OK, past 24hrs arrivals into ATL:

That sounds about right for ATL...

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 38):
If ATL is just under 50%, then when CVG SLC JFK Florida and P2P are factored in then 50-60% domestic RJ ops inc conceivable i would think.

I still wouldn't.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 24):
Also, how much do you wanna make a bet Delta has the same fares in markets that they compete with Airtran?



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27):
s T fare was $85 more than FL

DL is right on top of FL consistently. If you happened to buy right after FL filed a sale but before DL did, then it’s possible. Domestic fares are filed only 3X/day so there can be lags but it works both ways.

As for delays, this data is for travel in August before ATL began runway construction. Actually, ATL’s delays for the summer including August were much improved vs. 2005 because the 5th runway was in operation.

DL just plain overscheduled their JFK facility this summer and they will get it right by next summer… a lot of schedule changes have already been put in place. Yet, they cannot justify spending hundreds of millions to rebuild JFK if they don’t see there is a strong and profitable market.

There is a very real problem with The Delta Connection in ATL, esp. ASA. DL put some very strong requirements on Skywest to fix ASA and the indications are that DL will hold them to that. While SLC is a much better weather hub, OO is a far better run airline.

An aweful lot of ASA’s problem is that they DON”T coordinate their operational decisions with Delta to the degree that they should. All of the network airlines have invested huge amounts in operational control centers that keep their operations on time but regional airlines have not. Because regional airlines have so many short flights, it is a lot harder to restart their operations after irregular operations. However, ASA doesn’t make good decisions when they do have the opportunity to try to get the operation back on its feet.

A significant problem in ATL is the ground handling operation; while the Delta Connection gates are always busy, ASA doesn’t have the people or the smarts to make up time on delayed flights. A wholesale cleanout of the ASA ground staff at ATL would do wonders. There’s no reason why a delayed incoming CRJ flight with the crew there should not be turned in 25 minutes at a hub instead of the 50 minutes that many flights often have scheduled. And yet I have sat through ASA delay after delay because the ASA ground staff can’t recognize that getting an airplane back on time should be the highest priority.

Comair is ground handled by ASA in ATL so Comair is no better than ASA.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 40):
There is a very real problem with The Delta Connection in ATL



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 40):
An aweful lot of ASA’s problem is that they DON”T coordinate their operational decisions with Delta to the degree that they should.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 40):
A significant problem in ATL is the ground handling operation



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 40):
A wholesale cleanout of the ASA ground staff at ATL would do wonders.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 40):
And yet I have sat through ASA delay after delay because the ASA ground staff can’t recognize that getting an airplane back on time should be the highest priority.

I think that pretty much sums it up, some people here may not agree or understand, but its rather obvious that a serious operational overhaul is needed at DL Connection, specifically at ATL/JFK with EV/OH.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:13 pm

I work for AirTran, and I think a big part of it IS the current runway construction in ATL. It's been KICKIN' OUR ASS recently. Even if we're on time, it's a 20 minute taxi to the gate...

Check out the FAA System Command Center Map.

http://www.fly.faa.gov/flyfaa/usmap.jsp

It's a nice day weather wise in ATL, yet at 9AM, there's already a ground stop program in effect due to runway construction...
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5272
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 40):
Actually, ATL’s delays for the summer including August were much improved vs. 2005 because the 5th runway was in operation.

Improved yes, but still at the bottom of the industry. Only a handful of airports had worse on-time performance this summer than ATL.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 40):
A wholesale cleanout of the ASA ground staff at ATL would do wonders.

A wholesale cleanout occurs on a regular basis for the ground crews at ASA. Turnover is extremely high which is partially why things are so bad. You always have new people who are learning. However, given the poor pay and working conditions at ASA in ATL, they're never going to be able to attract good workers. ASA scrapes the bottom of society's labor pool to find people.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:37 pm

Just proves that ASA really stands for Always Stuck in Atlanta
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:40 pm

from the report:

ATL & JFK specific on-time arrivals broken down by carrier (AUG 06):

ATL:
DL = 77.4%
EV = 59.8%
OH = 49.0%
ATL avg. = 69.7%

JFK:
DL = 69.6%
EV = 65.6%
OH = 53.9%
JFK avg. = 69.6%

seems pretty evident that on a day-to-day basis DL mainline, which shares the same operational challenges as EV and OH, is doing MUCH better than the other 2 regardless of the reasons for the delay.


Overall on-time performance by carrier for thier network (AUG 06):

DL = 76.8% (middle of the pack - 5th of the large network carriers)
EV = 62.2% (worst in the U.S.)
OH = 71.3% (4th worst in the U.S.)
industry avg. = 75.9%


domestic flights (AUG 06 - which still saw DL with the last of the 732 fleet):

DL = 1450
EV = 789
OH = 875

EV + OH = 1664

% of DL mainline = 46.56%
% of DCI flights (not including RP, F8, OO, any others) = 53.43%

I seems VERY clear that the DL network is AT LEAST 60-65% comprised of DCI flights.

% of flights cncelled (AUG 06):

DL = 1.6%
EV = 3.0% (ranked 3rd highest in the U.S.)
OH = 3.4% (ranked highest in the U.S.)
industry avg. = 1.6%

the report even breaks down the reasons for delays:

% of 'Air Carrier' (not wx, ATC, etc.) (AUG 06):

DL = 5.94%
EV = 14.38% (highest in the U.S.)
OH = 10.31% (4th highest and only .08% from 2nd highest in the U.S.)
industry avg. = 6.58%

Mishandled baggage:

DL = 9.00 missed bag per 1000 pax
EV = 21.56 (highest in the U.S.)
OH = 14.87 (3rd highest)
industry avg. = 8.08

Denied boardings (Jan - Jun 2006):

DL = 2.07 per 10K pax
EV = 5.19 (highest in the U.S.)
OH = 2.63 (2nd highest)
avg. = 1.22

MISC:

10 out of 10 customer complaints about OH were "flight problems"
5 out of 8 for EV were "flight problems"
DL had the most complaints (15) of all the airlines regarding "Refunds"
DL had the 2nd most (11, UA = 16) complaints regarding "Customer Service"

on a positive note: unlike AA, CO (2), HA, and UA - DL didn't report any "Pet Deaths"

the numbers DO speak for themselves, the DCI product is terrible at best all the while DL mainline gets better but drasticlly smaller. If these numbers persist, more and more people (A LOT MORE!) like RLPVD757 will run into the same issues he did...

[Edited 2006-10-06 15:44:36]
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2530
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:51 pm

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 45):
EV = 62.2% (worst in the U.S.)



Quoting PVD757 (Reply 45):
% of 'Air Carrier' (not wx, ATC, etc.) (AUG 06):

DL = 5.94%
EV = 14.38% (highest in the U.S.)
OH = 10.31% (4th highest and only .08% from 2nd highest in the U.S.)
industry avg. = 6.58%



Quoting PVD757 (Reply 45):
Mishandled baggage:

DL = 9.00 missed bag per 1000 pax
EV = 21.56 (highest in the U.S.)
OH = 14.87 (3rd highest)
industry avg. = 8.08



Quoting PVD757 (Reply 45):
Denied boardings (Jan - Jun 2006):

DL = 2.07 per 10K pax
EV = 5.19 (highest in the U.S.)
OH = 2.63 (2nd highest)
avg. = 1.22

Here's a question.... has there ever been an airline that has performed WORSE statisically speaking?
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
phollingsworth
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:05 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 45):
Mishandled baggage:

DL = 9.00 missed bag per 1000 pax
EV = 21.56 (highest in the U.S.)
OH = 14.87 (3rd highest)
industry avg. = 8.08

I wonder what percentage of the EV misshandles occur when EV sends the bag to the wrong carosel in ATL. I noticed that many people just give up and go to baggage services when their bag doesn't appear on the proper carosel, when the bag itself is going around in circles behind them. Every time I have collected bags off of the EV carosels in ATL I always call out the fact that the bags are on the wrong carosel. The fact that is happens with such regularity in ATL suggests that EV's system is just plain broken.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 45):
ATL:
DL = 77.4%
EV = 59.8%
OH = 49.0%
ATL avg. = 69.7%

JFK:
DL = 69.6%
EV = 65.6%
OH = 53.9%
JFK avg. = 69.6%

These numbers indicate that the problem is DL/DCI general at JFK, though OH comes out the worst. ATL, however, seams to be an EV/OH problem. This could be from ground handeling by EV or other factors. I will see what I can find out from the BTS
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:05 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 41):
I think that pretty much sums it up

No it doesn't. It does nothing to address YOUR misplaced anger. NONE of your flights were effected by anything WorldTraveler (who is one of the few accurate sources of information on this site) had said. You glossed over everything else to look for what you wanted to hear.

I never said ASA didn't have issues. I never said improvements couldn't be made to the DL Conx operation at JFK. The simple fact remains, neither of those effected YOU, which was my point all along.

Quoting Travatl (Reply 42):
I work for AirTran, and I think a big part of it IS the current runway construction in ATL. It's been KICKIN' OUR ASS recently. Even if we're on time, it's a 20 minute taxi to the gate...

This is a good example of what I'm talking about. If you can get Delta and AirTran on the same side, that should say something to you.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 45):
10 out of 10 customer complaints about OH were "flight problems"
5 out of 8 for EV were "flight problems"

Too vague.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 45):
DL had the 2nd most (11, UA = 16) complaints regarding "Customer Service"

Too vague.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 45):
DL mainline gets better but drasticlly smaller.

Um, no not drastically.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: 35 Most Delayed Flights On DL And Affiliates

Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:14 pm

you skipped all the ones that don't suit your argument - how vague...

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